Guild Wars 2

Immobilize is arguably the most powerful condition in the game right now. While immobilized you cannot turn, making it easy for players to get behind your attack arc. It is effectively an easily stacked stun. On top of this immobilize is easily stacked, particularly by thieves. 5-10 seconds of chained immobilize isn’t exactly difficult to get. Immobilize is arguably better than stun right now.

Adding Immobilize to the list of things blocked by stability and broken by stun break would likely improve the balance of the game greatly. Currently you can only remove it via condition removal. Many of which are severely lacking when it comes to removing key conditions. It can then be immediately reapplied.

Simply put, why isn’t immobilize covered by stun break and stability. It is nearly as good as stun when you do not factor in stun break. When you factor that immobilize has much fewer effective counters it is significantly better than stun. This simple change would likely have a significant effect on the game.

Just stop for a second and think. If a team lands a good immobilize, how likely are you to die? If they land a good stun how likely are you to die?

i thought it was wierd as well that immobilize isnt covered by stability when things like blind and daze are

Took me forever to realize that my stability wasn’t doing jack against immobillize. I kept glazing over the tooltip because I see “immune to all CC” and I’m like oh good, see ya immobilize.

Wronnnggg. Have to blow a condition remover to get it off. The worst one are thosekittenentangling roots though, if you don’t roll out immediately after scrubbing the immobilize you just get stuck in again, so annoying.

Dallas.2536:

i thought it was wierd as well that immobilize isnt covered by stability when things like blind and daze are

Immobilize and Fear are conditions, not control. Not saying it makes sense of course

Xahz.8406:

Dallas.2536:

i thought it was wierd as well that immobilize isnt covered by stability when things like blind and daze are

Immobilize and Fear are conditions, not control. Not saying it makes sense of course

thats cool, but stability gets rid of fear :x

Learn to use condition removal and stop crying.

Seether.7285:

Learn to use condition removal and stop crying.

It isn’t crying, it’s a discussion. Take your L2P attitude elsewhere.

On topic: Immob is probably the most annoying thing you can do to someone currently. Why it isn’t countered by stability or stun breaks I don’t know but it definitely has easier application that most other conditions and stacks even better with the exception of Bleeding and Burning.

I would love to see this be taken away by stun break, but that’s because my poor Ranger only has a single condition removal in his arsenal right now and that’s only because you pretty much HAVE to have at least one. Sadly, that’s pretty much all we have lol (the bear doesn’t count imo, it’s ONE condition that it removes every 30 seconds or so).

According to wiki, stability does not grant immunity to fear http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

..which is a bug. Although the most sensical of course would be that condition removals remove conditions and cc breakers break cc (captain obvious); ie. cc break shouldn’t remove fear. And no stability shouldn’t prevent blind, unless that is bugged too.

These are among the groundrules that constitute GW2. Changing things up would be weird (and difficult?). Immobilize does come off more as a cc than a condition though so idk.

Without immobilize melee will be kited all day long. There is too much condition removal in this game. What’s the point of CC?

Seether.7285:

Learn to use condition removal and stop crying.

… and then die to the necro, ranger, mesmer… heck, to anyone who decides to put stack bleeds on you after you’ve used it.

The thing to realize here is that each class is a little different in what it has for condition removal, CC breaks, etc., and it doesn’t always make sense. Take, for example, the Ranger – a class with no immobilize breaks at all. If they want to escape one, they absolutely need to use their condition removal as there are no other options. At the same time, they’re a class which has ultimately only one option for clearing out conditions and its on a very long cooldown, so if they do use the remover for the immobilize break, they’re especially susceptible to condition damage after that point.

Compare that to thieves and engineers, for example, who have some of the most readily available immobilize breaks in the game and also have some pretty readily available condition cleansing as well. It would seem to make more sense for a class who needs to use condition removal to escape immobilize to have more condition removal, and a class which doesn’t need it to do so to have less, but its currently not really balanced in any particularly orderly way.

Skolops.2604:

Seether.7285:

Learn to use condition removal and stop crying.

If they want to escape one, they absolutely need to use their condition removal as there are no other options. At the same time, they’re a class which has ultimately only one option for clearing out conditions and its on a very long cooldown, so if they do use the remover for the immobilize break, they’re especially susceptible to condition damage after that point.

Well, you can take pets that break conditions too, brown bears are your friend.

Jhu.3965:

Skolops.2604:

Seether.7285:

Learn to use condition removal and stop crying.

If they want to escape one, they absolutely need to use their condition removal as there are no other options. At the same time, they’re a class which has ultimately only one option for clearing out conditions and its on a very long cooldown, so if they do use the remover for the immobilize break, they’re especially susceptible to condition damage after that point.

Well, you can take pets that break conditions too, brown bears are your friend.

Apart from this being a Ranger specific issue when I was just giving the Ranger as a single example of a more widespread problem, keep in mind that

A) the Brown Bear is the only condition removing pet

B) It only removes a single condition which may not be the one you need removed

C) It would have to be in range at the very instant you need to break, which just by the nature of it being a melee pet it often won’t – and probably shouldn’t – be

D) Rangers need to rely on their pets for many things, including even CC. They’re the only class I can think of which doesn’t have any immobilizes, for example – at least until you add pets. Asking a Ranger to take a bear to clear conditions is asking him to give up other things which other pets can provide. Of course, every class has to choose what they want to bring and what they don’t, but the issue with the Ranger in particular is that most other classes have in their weapon attacks many things Rangers need to trait and take utility skills to get, and then those classes get to take more in their traits and utility skills.

Like I said, though, the Ranger was just an example.

Right now immobilize is very important. But is it overpowered? Hardly. People are quickly realizing the importance of taking stability. However boon stripping isn’t ready available to every class. The best counter they could bring in this situation is immobilization.

Not every team wants to take a necro. They just don’t do enough damage and bring just enough to the table. Mesmers can bring null field to handle stability.

Absurd amounts of immobilization stacking is a problem. I feel 10 seconds of cripple is excessive, but everyone has condition removal at hand. If it really is your bane, then handle it.

Putting immobilization into the list of things that stability counters would make the boon truly unstoppable. The only condition counters to it are currently daze and immobilize. It’s impractical to bring a necro for this one purpose.

Also realistically, you could be as stable as anything and still not be able to take a step. And you could break something that’s stunning you and still not be able to take a step. I don’t see a problem with how it is right now unless someone can single handedly get over 5 seconds of immobilization without putting a huge effort into it by sacrificing damage etc.

Haku.5068:

Right now immobilize is very important. But is it overpowered? Hardly. People are quickly realizing the importance of taking stability. However boon stripping isn’t ready available to every class. The best counter they could bring in this situation is immobilization.

Not every team wants to take a necro. They just don’t do enough damage and bring just enough to the table. Mesmers can bring null field to handle stability.

Absurd amounts of immobilization stacking is a problem. I feel 10 seconds of cripple is excessive, but everyone has condition removal at hand. If it really is your bane, then handle it.

Putting immobilization into the list of things that stability counters would make the boon truly unstoppable. The only condition counters to it are currently daze and immobilize. It’s impractical to bring a necro for this one purpose.

Also realistically, you could be as stable as anything and still not be able to take a step. And you could break something that’s stunning you and still not be able to take a step. I don’t see a problem with how it is right now unless someone can single handedly get over 5 seconds of immobilization without putting a huge effort into it by sacrificing damage etc.

Thieves – 7 seconds.

Skolops.2604:

Haku.5068:

Right now immobilize is very important. But is it overpowered? Hardly. People are quickly realizing the importance of taking stability. However boon stripping isn’t ready available to every class. The best counter they could bring in this situation is immobilization.

Not every team wants to take a necro. They just don’t do enough damage and bring just enough to the table. Mesmers can bring null field to handle stability.

Absurd amounts of immobilization stacking is a problem. I feel 10 seconds of cripple is excessive, but everyone has condition removal at hand. If it really is your bane, then handle it.

Putting immobilization into the list of things that stability counters would make the boon truly unstoppable. The only condition counters to it are currently daze and immobilize. It’s impractical to bring a necro for this one purpose.

Also realistically, you could be as stable as anything and still not be able to take a step. And you could break something that’s stunning you and still not be able to take a step. I don’t see a problem with how it is right now unless someone can single handedly get over 5 seconds of immobilization without putting a huge effort into it by sacrificing damage etc.

Thieves – 7 seconds.

I think that’s sort of fair, albeit long. Thief don’t have any natural stability, stun, or way other than immobilize to ensure that their victim won’t move. What combo is stopping them from moving for 7s? Straight up spamming of the immobilize skill on sword? Or maybe their trap + immobilize venom?

Haku.5068:

Skolops.2604:

Haku.5068:

Right now immobilize is very important. But is it overpowered? Hardly. People are quickly realizing the importance of taking stability. However boon stripping isn’t ready available to every class. The best counter they could bring in this situation is immobilization.

Not every team wants to take a necro. They just don’t do enough damage and bring just enough to the table. Mesmers can bring null field to handle stability.

Absurd amounts of immobilization stacking is a problem. I feel 10 seconds of cripple is excessive, but everyone has condition removal at hand. If it really is your bane, then handle it.

Putting immobilization into the list of things that stability counters would make the boon truly unstoppable. The only condition counters to it are currently daze and immobilize. It’s impractical to bring a necro for this one purpose.

Also realistically, you could be as stable as anything and still not be able to take a step. And you could break something that’s stunning you and still not be able to take a step. I don’t see a problem with how it is right now unless someone can single handedly get over 5 seconds of immobilization without putting a huge effort into it by sacrificing damage etc.

Thieves – 7 seconds.

I think that’s sort of fair, albeit long. Thief don’t have any natural stability, stun, or way other than immobilize to ensure that their victim won’t move. What combo is stopping them from moving for 7s? Straight up spamming of the immobilize skill on sword? Or maybe their trap + immobilize venom?

Its the trap plus the venom.

The problem with it is that its extremely strong. Against a good thief, you’d need three ways to break immobilize to avoid taking spike damage from him during this – and some classes can barely come up with one.

Skolops.2604:

Haku.5068:

Skolops.2604:

Haku.5068:

Right now immobilize is very important. But is it overpowered? Hardly. People are quickly realizing the importance of taking stability. However boon stripping isn’t ready available to every class. The best counter they could bring in this situation is immobilization.

Not every team wants to take a necro. They just don’t do enough damage and bring just enough to the table. Mesmers can bring null field to handle stability.

Absurd amounts of immobilization stacking is a problem. I feel 10 seconds of cripple is excessive, but everyone has condition removal at hand. If it really is your bane, then handle it.

Putting immobilization into the list of things that stability counters would make the boon truly unstoppable. The only condition counters to it are currently daze and immobilize. It’s impractical to bring a necro for this one purpose.

Also realistically, you could be as stable as anything and still not be able to take a step. And you could break something that’s stunning you and still not be able to take a step. I don’t see a problem with how it is right now unless someone can single handedly get over 5 seconds of immobilization without putting a huge effort into it by sacrificing damage etc.

Thieves – 7 seconds.

I think that’s sort of fair, albeit long. Thief don’t have any natural stability, stun, or way other than immobilize to ensure that their victim won’t move. What combo is stopping them from moving for 7s? Straight up spamming of the immobilize skill on sword? Or maybe their trap + immobilize venom?

Its the trap plus the venom.

The problem with it is that its extremely strong. Against a good thief, you’d need three ways to break immobilize to avoid taking spike damage from him during this – and some classes can barely come up with one.

I wouldn’t say it’s extremely strong. For the thief it is extremely useful. For a team of players in a team fight, yes… It’s extremely strong. However, in a teamfight against a support ele with stability the only answer for him is to strip his stability through all his boons OR, immobilize him and tear his face off. This goes for a lot of bunker builds that are constantly moving to avoid damage and danger areas on the point.

Think of it this way. Against one of the million bleed stacking specs you’re pulling your hair out trying to remove bleed that is so easily put up. If your life really is on the line you will use your condition removal. If 7 seconds of immobilization from 2 utilities with cooldowns seems overpowered to you… Then that means that you are unwilling to use your condition removal on immobilization because you don’t think it’s scary enough. This is your own judgement call.

Immobilize is the bane of rangers. Thats how I die on my ranger 90% of the time.

On my thief however, I can shadowstep out of it (even with my bow skill-which is spamable).

Balanced?

Yasha.5963:

Immobilize is the bane of rangers. Thats how I die on my ranger 90% of the time.

On my thief however, I can shadowstep out of it (even with my bow skill-which is spamable).

Balanced?

Pretty much… its crazy. I just commented in another thread that I made a Ranger first, and since then have made a thief, an Engineer, and a Warrior. In addition to other things, the amount of immobilize outs these classes have actually made me laugh out loud when I first looked through the skills/traits of each.

That said, I’m sure Rangers aren’t the only profession and immobilize isn’t the only mechanic about which there are a lot of imbalances in the classes.

The thing is I could understand if it were simply a case of some classes being stronger than others in area X, Y, or Z, but from what I’ve seen virtually every other profession has multiple solid immobilize escape options while the Ranger has none at all. On top of this, its not as if the Ranger has some area that it’s particularly strong in compared to thieves or engineers to make up the balance. I don’t mind a balance which isn’t 1 – 1. A game like StarCraft doesn’t have each race equally good at every facet of the game, but over the course of the game as a whole they all have relatively equal chance to compete against one another. I think this is fine.

Again – this isn’t just a bout Rangers. I am sure there are similar problems across the board. I just know the most about Rangers so its easiest to come up with examples.

I don’t think any sort of disable should stack, including immobilize. It’s hard enough to remove stacks of conditions when they just get reapplied right afterwards. Seemingly every time I get hit with immobilize I die, because of the 4 other conditions being stacked on top of it.

Immobilize is the only way to currently counter Stability. Stability itself is very strong, and with no way to counter it everyone will be requires to take stability this removing any need or use for CC, meaning everything turns into more of a zerg-rush DPS blitz than it already is. No thank you, immobilize is fine, especially since most immobilize is hard to land.

Hyeena.4286:

Immobilize is the only way to currently counter Stability. Stability itself is very strong, and with no way to counter it everyone will be requires to take stability this removing any need or use for CC, meaning everything turns into more of a zerg-rush DPS blitz than it already is. No thank you, immobilize is fine, especially since most immobilize is hard to land.

Immobilize is not hard to land. I can think off the top of my head of an extremely easy way to do it for at least 4 classes – in some cases more than one.

I’ve seen this argument about stability being strong before, so specifically the same in fact that I wonder whether you’re the same person. I just don’t think it’s a very good argument. First, stability typically has a long cooldown and only lasts for a short time. Second, it doesn’t guard against chill and cripple, two of the most deadly CCs because of the duration they can be applied with. Third, why this burning need to stun people such that stability should be considered so strong? What’s wrong with letting people actually have control over their characters?

The fact is – and this is mostly related to that third point – that immobilize is the single biggest contributer by FAAAR to the DPS zerg fest. It forces you to take your opponents’ burst, it can be stacked to last for an extremely long time compared to stuns and knockdowns, it isn’t mitigated by stunbreaks but only by a few select skills which are, frankly, available to some classes by a gross degree more than others. I can tell you from my personal experience that virtually every time I’ve ever died in this game’s PvP its been from being immobilized and, having no way to escape it available at the time, eating 15k of damage that I’d otherwise dodge.

This is the most stupid aspect of the game…if immobilize is a condition it is the same as fear which my stun breaks work on! This needs to to be make breakable by stun break…it is still OP and all these warriors popping up in PvP and WvW is breaking the game and making it much less enjoyable! Immobilize for 5 seconds 3 hits and dead….how is this balanced in any world? Mesmer which is my main class has no effective condition removal without taking terrible trait lines..especially for me as a condition mesmer! feel as though im being punished for taking the road less traveled…..

Too few classes can get stability so they can’t break it.

I agree.

/endthread

Dreadspectre.3456:

Have to blow a condition remover to get it off.

Giggity.

Immoblize shouldn’t stop dodge rolling…
Plain and simple…

Conditions shouldn’t be hard CC… cleansing isn’t even remotely made for that…
The cleansing Anet put into this game seems setup for combat where condition removal isn’t necessary to make a playable spec (the one good condi removal trait in only most classes… sacrificing a utility slot just for one cleanse every 60~ seconds)…

Long duration immobilize… and fear…. both are not necessarily OP, but don’t fallow the game model Anet setup… at all…
Same thing with dps conditions…

The game is a mess.

Skolops.2604:

Haku.5068:

Right now immobilize is very important. But is it overpowered? Hardly. People are quickly realizing the importance of taking stability. However boon stripping isn’t ready available to every class. The best counter they could bring in this situation is immobilization.

Not every team wants to take a necro. They just don’t do enough damage and bring just enough to the table. Mesmers can bring null field to handle stability.

Absurd amounts of immobilization stacking is a problem. I feel 10 seconds of cripple is excessive, but everyone has condition removal at hand. If it really is your bane, then handle it.

Putting immobilization into the list of things that stability counters would make the boon truly unstoppable. The only condition counters to it are currently daze and immobilize. It’s impractical to bring a necro for this one purpose.

Also realistically, you could be as stable as anything and still not be able to take a step. And you could break something that’s stunning you and still not be able to take a step. I don’t see a problem with how it is right now unless someone can single handedly get over 5 seconds of immobilization without putting a huge effort into it by sacrificing damage etc.

Thieves – 7 seconds.

The profession can do over 14s of immobilize.

Immobilize is fine people trippin.

garethh.3518:

Immoblize shouldn’t stop dodge rolling…
Plain and simple…

Conditions shouldn’t be hard CC… cleansing isn’t even remotely made for that…
The cleansing Anet threw in this game implies that condition removal isn’t necessary to make a playable spec (the one good condi removal trait in most classes… sacrificing a utility slot just for one cleanse every 60~ seconds)…

Long duration immobilize… and fear…. both are not necessarily OP, but don’t fallow that model… at all…
Same thing with dps conditions…

The game is a mess.

Think you nailed it xD

no, but we should be able to dodge while immobilized. Weren’t they supposed to let us? Or its not on their priority list and dodge while immobilized is supposed to come in 3 years?