Guild Wars 2

Really it is.

And why? Simple. One game mode. Every poll ever done suggested more game modes as the key.

Anet have given up adding maps too. In fact we haven’t had a new “team arena” map in 18 months. So for 18 months there is no “freshness” into pvp.

New game mode seems like it is never coming because “league of legends only has one game mode!”. This sort of analogy is just so flawed.

Solo arena is a total joke. Firstly it has skyhammer. Secondly everybody has totally given up try harding and it now just a total kitten around by both teams.

Team arena is equally dull. What is there, about 4 “teams” who play a viable comp? Everyone else is just playing very casually. So that clearly shows the joke that is team arena. When compostion and “rotations” (also known as running to empty point with bunkers and dying slowly to win 500-100) are more important than actual fighting then you know you created epic fail pvp.

There is nothing to do with 2/3 friends. Do arena-net really not understand social scenarios? It is way way harder to sustain a 5 man group than it is to sustain a 2/3 man group. People have their own commitments. In a 5 man groups these clash often so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People have personalities. In a 5 man group these clash so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People want to play something fun. When (to win) you need 3 (minimum) bunkers (for the “pro” rotations) then you need to find 3 people who are so desperate to win that they want to run some sort of do-nothing build which thrives by just auto attacking for 100 (no offense to bunkers – someone has to do it).

So playing as a 5 man team is just not really practical. And playing conquest OVER AND OVER AND OVER again (and you dont even add new maps lolz) is BORING. This isn’t league of legends. Really…

And they refuse to address any of these issues. 15 points for a kill would help to make pvp less of a total bunker-fest of lameness. You have all seen epically skilled players on engi/warrior/ele in different peroids of gw2 and how they all just do so much for their team by rushing far and bunkering it till more bunkers can arrive. How about 15 points if they die. Actually make the risk reward of the game more sensible.

Or you can just leave things as they are. Eu is meant to be the “active” part (NA not active) and you have about 8 teams (including casual teams). So that is 40 people. Well played. 4 million to 40 players. That is horrendous. Truly horrendous.

Nobody will read this from anet and nothing will ever improve. Is there even anyone left? They all leave because they know this game is going nowhere from a pvp perspective.

I’m having fun, couldn’t care less if the game has 1 team or 100 teams, or if there were 20 different game modes; as long as the game is fun (and according to my yoloQ queue times a lot of people must be playing) its worth.

Not every game is suited to be “competitive” (even if they want it), if you want to go pro and get all the girls with your leet skills, try League.

Bhawb.7408:

I’m having fun, couldn’t care less if the game has 1 team or 100 teams, or if there were 20 different game modes; as long as the game is fun (and according to my yoloQ queue times a lot of people must be playing) its worth.

Not every game is suited to be “competitive” (even if they want it), if you want to go pro and get all the girls with your leet skills, try League.

I agree. This game is a joke competitively, that is what I am saying. There is no point playing it competitively.

So why not actually make the game fun with new game modes and more stuff to keep things fresh in the game. If you find it fun now I am almost certain you wont say that when you have played 4k tournaments like I have.

This game isn’t even good for casual-competitve people like me who want to just have fun whilst having a bit of casual competition

team kills in the new courtyard map are worth 25 points for the team.
perhaps we can apply that to the existing conquest.

also award more points for kills made in capture points

25 points – team kills
30 points – team kills in own points
40 points – team kills in neutral points
50 points – team kills in enemy points

suddenly, there is a big incentive to take down defensive bunkers now, since killing a bunker on their turf would be equivalent to holding a capture point for 17 seconds.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

team kills in the new courtyard map are worth 25 points for the team.
perhaps we can apply that to the existing conquest.

also award more points for kills made in capture points

25 points – team kills
30 points – team kills in own points
40 points – team kills in neutral points
50 points – team kills in enemy points

suddenly, there is a big incentive to take down defensive bunkers now, since killing a bunker on their turf would be equivalent to holding a capture point for 17 seconds.

I like this idea. Increasing points for kill;s is a simple idea anet could implement. Would help with the current stale bunker heavy meta.
I’m also bored with the same game mode.

suddenly, people may start playing golf with bunkers.

for example,
1. blue bunker defends blue capture point
2. blue bunker was outnumbered and attempts to flee
3. blue bunker fled the capture point but was downed outside the capture point
4. red attackers golfs (banish) blue bunker back into the capture point
5. red team scores 50 points for the blue bunker kill inside the blue capture point

everyone cheers?

I don’t think it is ‘Conquest’ which is destroying sPvP – I have never heard anyone go ‘I hate Conquest’ ever in my 4900+ Solo/Team Arena games and we know if people actually dislike something then they will complain about it constantly like Skyhammer or Decap Engi. I still think more game modes may help though.

If ArenaNet want a competitive environment then it is all about “Leaderboards/Ladders” and we don’t really have that. ArenaNet also need to start rewarding the active players better instead of the inactive.

I didn’t realize people playing casually meant it was an “epic fail”

as for the lack of competitive nature which seems to be the theme of this topic… I’m a fairly casual player, so I’m fine the way it is

While it’s got its faults, it’s the best pvp mmorpg I’ve played. I don’t really care if it’s not getitng 50k twitch views.

League has kept people playing for far more than just 5k games (and in a game where the matches are way longer) on a single map, because it has engaging leaderboards, and often enough there is something new to change things around.

I think the issue was mainly that the first set of maps were largely snoozefests (compared to something like ToSS which has quite a few secondary objectives) without too much strategy involved beyond just conquest.

New maps are definitely good, and more variety is good (I honestly think they need to stop holding back and just start regularly releasing new skills and stuff). The new reward system gives you something to work for as well. All they need to do now is get a little bit faster about new maps and new skills/traits/weapons.

old doom ’n gloom crowd is back. didnt take long, what was it? 2 days since patch?

have gareth and lordrosiky posted already? explained and proved the epic fail of the game. of course they dont play, just glancing through forums once in a while. for 10 month now, every 5 min.

The new maps are for custom arenas only, so we’ll not be seeing much of them sadly. They have several maps lying around, as you can see in older videos. At least add some of the maps you have made, like Keep or Encampment, if you’re not ready to apply a new game mode.

I am hoping for capture the flag: pull. Point capture is pretty dull by now.

Pretty sure PvP population has like tripled after this patch.

But you are right, GW2 pvp should instantly be multi-million cash prize esports, otherwise it’s an epic fail. eye roll

gesho.9468:

old doom ’n gloom crowd is back. didnt take long, what was it? 2 days since patch?

have gareth and lordrosiky posted already? explained and proved the epic fail of the game. of course they dont play, just glancing through forums once in a while. for 10 month now, every 5 min.

I lol’ed, those ol doomsayers

infantrydiv.1620:

Pretty sure PvP population has like tripled after this patch.

But you are right, GW2 pvp should instantly be multi-million cash prize esports, otherwise it’s an epic fail. eye roll

It doesn’t seem like it – Solo Arena queues are as long as ever for me.

Competitive infrastructure is all we need. I don’t really like moba’s but LoL’s infrastructure just makes it more fun.

Rickster.8752:

Really it is.

And why? Simple. One game mode. Every poll ever done suggested more game modes as the key.

Anet have given up adding maps too. In fact we haven’t had a new “team arena” map in 18 months. So for 18 months there is no “freshness” into pvp.

New game mode seems like it is never coming because “league of legends only has one game mode!”. This sort of analogy is just so flawed.

Solo arena is a total joke. Firstly it has skyhammer. Secondly everybody has totally given up try harding and it now just a total kitten around by both teams.

Team arena is equally dull. What is there, about 4 “teams” who play a viable comp? Everyone else is just playing very casually. So that clearly shows the joke that is team arena. When compostion and “rotations” (also known as running to empty point with bunkers and dying slowly to win 500-100) are more important than actual fighting then you know you created epic fail pvp.

There is nothing to do with 2/3 friends. Do arena-net really not understand social scenarios? It is way way harder to sustain a 5 man group than it is to sustain a 2/3 man group. People have their own commitments. In a 5 man groups these clash often so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People have personalities. In a 5 man group these clash so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People want to play something fun. When (to win) you need 3 (minimum) bunkers (for the “pro” rotations) then you need to find 3 people who are so desperate to win that they want to run some sort of do-nothing build which thrives by just auto attacking for 100 (no offense to bunkers – someone has to do it).

So playing as a 5 man team is just not really practical. And playing conquest OVER AND OVER AND OVER again (and you dont even add new maps lolz) is BORING. This isn’t league of legends. Really…

And they refuse to address any of these issues. 15 points for a kill would help to make pvp less of a total bunker-fest of lameness. You have all seen epically skilled players on engi/warrior/ele in different peroids of gw2 and how they all just do so much for their team by rushing far and bunkering it till more bunkers can arrive. How about 15 points if they die. Actually make the risk reward of the game more sensible.

Or you can just leave things as they are. Eu is meant to be the “active” part (NA not active) and you have about 8 teams (including casual teams). So that is 40 people. Well played. 4 million to 40 players. That is horrendous. Truly horrendous.

Nobody will read this from anet and nothing will ever improve. Is there even anyone left? They all leave because they know this game is going nowhere from a pvp perspective.

What a revelation, whoa! So insight, wow.
Mind – blown.

gesho.9468:

old doom ’n gloom crowd is back. didnt take long, what was it? 2 days since patch?

have gareth and lordrosiky posted already? explained and proved the epic fail of the game. of course they dont play, just glancing through forums once in a while. for 10 month now, every 5 min.

And I am left out? Clearly I am not posting enough. Curse all the infractions – Anet need to learn how to appreciate quality jokes just like the remainder of their active pvp playerbase did (they now welcome every annual update with open arms press).
Why should it only go one way, after all.

Obsidia.5127:

I don’t think it is ‘Conquest’ which is destroying sPvP – I have never heard anyone go ‘I hate Conquest’ ever in my 4900+ Solo/Team Arena games and we know if people actually dislike something then they will complain about it constantly like Skyhammer or Decap Engi. I still think more game modes may help though.

If ArenaNet want a competitive environment then it is all about “Leaderboards/Ladders” and we don’t really have that. ArenaNet also need to start rewarding the active players better instead of the inactive.

Well thats a bit of an odd thing to say. sPvP = Conquest. If someone hates conquest they will hate spvp and they wont be in soloq with you to tell you how much they hate it.

I hate conquest, i practically never play spvp because of it being just that one gamemode that i cannot stand.
Its a stupid, gimmick, that is ruining gamebalance in general. WvW and PvE are subject to whatever is unbalanced in sPvP and get buffed/nerfed accordingly. As a result, a lot of dumb balance changes that make no sense make their way into wvw and pve because of something that happend in the vaccuum that is conquest mode.

A gamemode that cannot in anyway be compared to pve or wvw, yet still dictates or atleast strongly influences, how these get balanced.

I say give us more gamemodes and make spvp fun, i dont like conquest but a team deathmatch sounds more fun.
Not only will you draw in more people with diverse gamemodes, but it will hopefully also change how balance is done.

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

I didn’t realize people playing casually meant it was an “epic fail”

as for the lack of competitive nature which seems to be the theme of this topic… I’m a fairly casual player, so I’m fine the way it is

It doesn’t even attract casual players. Nobody plays PvP in this game.

History has shown that there are 2 ways to make it big as esports game:

- Create a game with a lot of different gamemodes. So your spread your risks and you can develop it further based on the succes of specific maps and modes.
- Copy paste a gamemode that has been succesfull allready while adding your own unique flavours to it.

Anet did neither and it flopped as a direct result.

They dont have the esports experience inhouse to make it big as a competetive game. The only way to change this is by hiring someone who does AND giving him the resources that he needs to make it happen.

Rickster.8752:

Really it is.

And why? Simple. One game mode. Every poll ever done suggested more game modes as the key.

Anet have given up adding maps too. In fact we haven’t had a new “team arena” map in 18 months. So for 18 months there is no “freshness” into pvp.

New game mode seems like it is never coming because “league of legends only has one game mode!”. This sort of analogy is just so flawed.

Solo arena is a total joke. Firstly it has skyhammer. Secondly everybody has totally given up try harding and it now just a total kitten around by both teams.

Team arena is equally dull. What is there, about 4 “teams” who play a viable comp? Everyone else is just playing very casually. So that clearly shows the joke that is team arena. When compostion and “rotations” (also known as running to empty point with bunkers and dying slowly to win 500-100) are more important than actual fighting then you know you created epic fail pvp.

There is nothing to do with 2/3 friends. Do arena-net really not understand social scenarios? It is way way harder to sustain a 5 man group than it is to sustain a 2/3 man group. People have their own commitments. In a 5 man groups these clash often so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People have personalities. In a 5 man group these clash so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People want to play something fun. When (to win) you need 3 (minimum) bunkers (for the “pro” rotations) then you need to find 3 people who are so desperate to win that they want to run some sort of do-nothing build which thrives by just auto attacking for 100 (no offense to bunkers – someone has to do it).

So playing as a 5 man team is just not really practical. And playing conquest OVER AND OVER AND OVER again (and you dont even add new maps lolz) is BORING. This isn’t league of legends. Really…

And they refuse to address any of these issues. 15 points for a kill would help to make pvp less of a total bunker-fest of lameness. You have all seen epically skilled players on engi/warrior/ele in different peroids of gw2 and how they all just do so much for their team by rushing far and bunkering it till more bunkers can arrive. How about 15 points if they die. Actually make the risk reward of the game more sensible.

Or you can just leave things as they are. Eu is meant to be the “active” part (NA not active) and you have about 8 teams (including casual teams). So that is 40 people. Well played. 4 million to 40 players. That is horrendous. Truly horrendous.

Nobody will read this from anet and nothing will ever improve. Is there even anyone left? They all leave because they know this game is going nowhere from a pvp perspective.

Yes to everything you said. Terrible game mode, very boring, does not center around players killing each other but holding points, which leads to dumb cheesing. The game also can’t be balanced, mathematically speaking the gap in dmg and defense depending on how you stack it is too massive for healthy game play. The amount of condition damage and the lack of a defensive stat to lower that damage is terrible, terrible design. Vitality is under budget in comparison to other stats.

How to rescue this mess? Give players a flat attribute increase to all stats while in pvp, lower the amount of stats amulets given proportionately (the goal being to reduce the extreme stat stacking). In pvp the vitality stat should also reduce incoming condition damage, by a lesser amount than toughness does for direct damage, but enough to make vitality stacking an effective counter to condi stacking. Create a new game mode that suits the game better. Add BASIC pvp features like better data on how each player did durign the match (incoming/outgoing damage, breakdown damage by type, etc.) add a proper ladder in game, add a non ranked q where you can q by yourself or with however many friends.

In your opinion PvP isn’t good, I suppose that is good to know.

With that said, whether guild wars 2 becomes an esportz (it might have a chance in china) or not doesn’t really impact me in any meaningful way.

I was never going to be part of the esport and I don’t really care about watching other players play a game I could be playing myself.

so if guild wars 2 never becomes an esport, I most likely wont lose sleep over it since I have no real stake in the outcome.

P.S Weird that Gareth hasn’t dropped in to give the usual play by play on how guild wars 2 is the worst thing in the history of all MMORPG PvP.

I was expecting a “I’m #1 SoloQ and this is my opinion” thread.

Much disapointment.

the way they added “freshness” in gw1 was a really good method.

they radically rebalanced the skills fairly often so the meta never really had a chance to settle and every month felt like that first month of gw2 when we were all trying different builds and classes.

Few things to add some clarity on.

League of legends, has over 100 characters to play as.
Has 5 defined roles due to its game mode.
Has a game mode that has a lot more going on than 3 people having bunker wars.
Offers a scenario where you get to see 1on1 fights, then later it becomes 5v5 team fights.

So there is simply a lot more going on in it, and thus it stays fresh longer…and even then they still added new game modes.

Another thing. New arena style map.
First really different map, it works fine…it should be competitive with a ranked que (even if no leaderboards are put in atm). Make it 2 and 3 player team ques. Bam solved the issue for players with only 2-3 people teams who want to be competitive. It is arena so, its all centered around team fights, you can have a lot more versatile builds…careful of 5v5 it will become AE spam fest…but suppose you could have that too.

I doubt arenanet has the resources or desire to dive into more interesting pvp modes that might require more back end coding or ..really any coding or design. SO arena is probably the only real hope left….hope to see them go further with it, as maps would be easy to design for it. You wouldn’t need very many…the first one alone is plenty well done.

Just wanted to add my thoughts.

Zinwrath.2049:

Another thing. New arena style map.
First really different map, it works fine…it should be competitive with a ranked que (even if no leaderboards are put in atm). Make it 2 and 3 player team ques. Bam solved the issue for players with only 2-3 people teams who want to be competitive. It is arena so, its all centered around team fights, you can have a lot more versatile builds…careful of 5v5 it will become AE spam fest…but suppose you could have that too.

i would absolutely love 3 vs 3 or 2 vs 2 arena. That wasnt some custom arena locked thing. That map with a queue and ticket system (for respawns) could be epic.

silvermember.8941:

P.S Weird that Gareth hasn’t dropped in to give the usual play by play on how guild wars 2 is the worst thing in the history of all MMORPG PvP.

Well, it’s become quite na axiom by now, so there’s no need to reiterate it anymore.
I thought that much was obvious.

I am unable to start a new thread and this one seems to be the closest to what I want to say…

OK… I’ve been doing quite a bit of sPvP the last couple of days and for Anet to say that WvW is pve while sPvP is pvp has to be a joke.

The only way to win in sPvP is not to kill players – in fact it is advisable to avoid as many fights as possible… you win by capping shrines… the more time spent fighting means the more time your foe has to cap more shrines than you. You can come out top of your party without engaging in a single fight.

Seriously… this is not pvp

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

I am unable to start a new thread and this one seems to be the closest to what I want to say…

OK… I’ve been doing quite a bit of sPvP the last couple of days and for Anet to say that WvW is pve while sPvP is pvp has to be a joke.

The only way to win in sPvP is not to kill players – in fact it is advisable to avoid as many fights as possible… you win by capping shrines… the more time spent fighting means the more time your foe has to cap more shrines than you. You can come out top of your party without engaging in a single fight.

Seriously… this is not pvp

Since when was pvp games restricted to deathmatch?

I seriously doubt that top tier matches are two teams running around not fighting and capping points, from what I can gather it’s about having the right people at the right places to maximise the odds of winning fights on the points, or taking advantage of the enemy overextending etc.

I’m far from an expert, but the player vs player aspect here isn’t restricted to how good you are at fighting, there’s some strategy involved as well.
I for one find that much more exciting, than simple team deathmatch.

Let’s face it with the exception of wvw… pvp is better in GW1 – you have random/team arenas which is a battle to the death… you have arenas where you cap shrines if that is your thing… you have hall of heroes… you have gvg… you have factions.

spvp is basically a watered down version of factions and by the time GW2 came out people in GW1 already knew that to win you just cap shrines – except in spvp it is literally more beneficial to avoid fighting. Every time I engage in fights or choose to defend a shrine I come bottom of the party in points… every time I spend more time capping than fighting I come top.

That is not pvp… that’s just a mini version of karma train/pvd.

Anet should introduce to GW2 some of the pvp from GW1… give us random arenas, give us gvg, and perhaps even introduce 1v1.

The more this game progresses the more convinced I am that Anet don’t know how to pvp. Even the changes made in WvW make things easier for the pve player. This whole shrine capping bloodlust thing to replace the lakes… when they introduced GW2 to the public one of the selling points was the dynamics of underwater combat that made the fighting space 3d instead of 2d. You had to look above and below you. It was brilliant… difficult at first to get the hang of it but it was new invigorating and it was fun. But Anet has all but eliminated it from pvp areas.

Sorry but you seriously cannot call spvp pvp when the dynamics for winning do not involve fighting your opponent and it is more advantageous to avoid fights.

Rickster.8752:

There is nothing to do with 2/3 friends. Do arena-net really not understand social scenarios? It is way way harder to sustain a 5 man group than it is to sustain a 2/3 man group. People have their own commitments. In a 5 man groups these clash often so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People have personalities. In a 5 man group these clash so playing as a “team” simply doesn’t work. People want to play something fun. When (to win) you need 3 (minimum) bunkers (for the “pro” rotations) then you need to find 3 people who are so desperate to win that they want to run some sort of do-nothing build which thrives by just auto attacking for 100 (no offense to bunkers – someone has to do it).

GW1 required you to have at least 4-8 team mates for team and GvG respectively and that game didn’t fall apart.

I think Anet just messed at the initialization of PvP that’s all and it’s hard to pick it back up 2 years down the line.

They will be it back up though, they have to, their game depends on it.

PvP in general in this game isn’t good. Because there is no real PvP. PvP would be things like a team death match or a free for all. Not capturing points. If anything you want to avoid fighting other players because it’s only wasting time you could be spending capping. Same thing in WvW. The only good it provides your server is when you have Bloodlust and stomping people gives extra points.
I enjoy PvP to a degree, but I feel like it’s really all an illusion and the players are just obstacles more than they are objectives. Which isn’t how PvP should be.

I think we’re working with different definitions of pvp here, even with the assumption that a spvp match can be won or lost without any side doing any fighting, it’s still a competition between players, and hence why I would still accept calling it pvp.

More options like in GW1 would be very nice, but imho that doesn’t mean that what’s already implemented in GW2 isn’t pvp.

Emrad.9260:

I think we’re working with different definitions of pvp here, even with the assumption that a spvp match can be won or lost without any side doing any fighting, it’s still a competition between players, and hence why I would still accept calling it pvp.

More options like in GW1 would be very nice, but imho that doesn’t mean that what’s already implemented in GW2 isn’t pvp.

Valid point. I didn’t think of it that way so I very much agree. But when I imagine PvP I imagine players fighting players. It just doesn’t feel that way to me with the current system. Still, you’re very right. Players are competing with one another for the winning score. But when I think PvP I don’t usually think of it as who has the most points I think of it as who has the most points via kills. Though, that’s a very subjective thing so, I have only myself to blame.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

PvP in general in this game isn’t good. Because there is no real PvP. PvP would be things like a team death match or a free for all. Not capturing points. If anything you want to avoid fighting other players because it’s only wasting time you could be spending capping. Same thing in WvW. The only good it provides your server is when you have Bloodlust and stomping people gives extra points.
I enjoy PvP to a degree, but I feel like it’s really all an illusion and the players are just obstacles more than they are objectives. Which isn’t how PvP should be.

Yeh I agree. This game is player vs point

KarlaGrey.5903:

silvermember.8941:

P.S Weird that Gareth hasn’t dropped in to give the usual play by play on how guild wars 2 is the worst thing in the history of all MMORPG PvP.

Well, it’s become quite na axiom by now, so there’s no need to reiterate it anymore.
I thought that much was obvious.

If you have to convince people that guild wars 2 PvP is dat bad, then the PvP can’t really be that bad because they either be not playing the game or simply playing another game. You don’t stick with something you think is worst unless the other options are far worst.

Good, bad it’s all relative to something.

Obsidia.5127:

I don’t think it is ‘Conquest’ which is destroying sPvP – I have never heard anyone go ‘I hate Conquest’ ever in my 4900+ Solo/Team Arena games and we know if people actually dislike something then they will complain about it constantly like Skyhammer or Decap Engi. I still think more game modes may help though.

If ArenaNet want a competitive environment then it is all about “Leaderboards/Ladders” and we don’t really have that. ArenaNet also need to start rewarding the active players better instead of the inactive.

Conquest isn’t “destroying PvP”, the absence of alternatives is, I think.
It feels uninteresting to me, and actually playing sPvP feels very repetitive!
The fact that the gameplay in Conquest isn’t really my cup of tea (no matter how much I like PvP in MMOs) doesn’t help either.
(Courtyard in a more structured setting is by far the most fun I’ve had in GW2 though)

PeepMeDown.5017:

Zinwrath.2049:

Another thing. New arena style map.
First really different map, it works fine…it should be competitive with a ranked que (even if no leaderboards are put in atm). Make it 2 and 3 player team ques. Bam solved the issue for players with only 2-3 people teams who want to be competitive. It is arena so, its all centered around team fights, you can have a lot more versatile builds…careful of 5v5 it will become AE spam fest…but suppose you could have that too.

i would absolutely love 3 vs 3 or 2 vs 2 arena. That wasnt some custom arena locked thing. That map with a queue and ticket system (for respawns) could be epic.

This fairly much sums up by biggest wishes for the game =)

silvermember.8941:

KarlaGrey.5903:

silvermember.8941:

P.S Weird that Gareth hasn’t dropped in to give the usual play by play on how guild wars 2 is the worst thing in the history of all MMORPG PvP.

Well, it’s become quite na axiom by now, so there’s no need to reiterate it anymore.
I thought that much was obvious.

If you have to convince people that guild wars 2 PvP is dat bad, then the PvP can’t really be that bad because they either be not playing the game or simply playing another game. You don’t stick with something you think is worst unless the other options are far worst.

Good, bad it’s all relative to something.

Well, many believed the game had potential and sticked around longer than they would have otherwise. At least they realized their mistake…sooner or later.

Can’t argue the argument on relativity though. Then again, if I was to compare mmos (especially their pvp side) to GW1, all would fall flat, so yea.