Guild Wars 2

Through out GW2 history the 3 point strat has dominated the souls of any team trying to play off of only two nodes. Whether it be 1 player pushing far all the time or a thief constantly decapping far. It’s just a far better strat points wise and makes your deaths feel far more negligible.

Playing a comp like thief/ele/mes/guard/ranger means your thief doesn’t have time to go far and decap because the ele and mes are squishy so if the thief leaves them for any amount of time the tanky dps the enemy has in their team fight will win easily. So the strat becomes the ele/thief/mes roaming between the two points bunkered by the ranger/guard bursting people and trying to control off two points.

If anyone has attempted this strategy you know how fragile it feels. Me, Xeph, and Azshene were playing a similar comp with the 2 point strat and part of the way through the game I looked at how much score we had gained from kills. The score at that point of the game was 400-300 and we had gained 95 score from kills(19 wopping kills). Our whole lead was from kills. .Granted we were in a sort of puggish group and our home node was decapped more than we would had liked, it goes to show how fragile this strat is. Any death feels like it could lose you the game cause you will suddenly lose control of your precious two points and fall behind in score rapidly.

I think a 2 point strat by default will get a lot of kills if they are ahead because a 3 point strat will mostly try to bunker a point as they rez and come back rather than regrouping or sniping people off node, giving the 2 point control team the opportunity to grind kills as the enemy constantly streams in after respawns as they try to hold a node as theirs or nuetral.

If the 3 point strat team gains control at any point they will gain a massive lead that is almost unrecoverable by the other team. Meanwhile a 2 point strat team can control the game all the way through and still be only 100 points ahead by the end of the game.

Increasing the score gained from kills slightly can make the 2 point strat a more solid game plan and inherently increase the viability of more specs instead of mostly tanky DPS being viable. I know something like 7 score from a kill feels awkward but I think it may actually be a welcomed changed.

Before this gets brought up I’ll bring it up my self. Someone in here is bound to think “I’ve seen really tanky comps play for two nodes in tournaments though!” That’s because they can often go against nearly mirror comps in which case there is no clear 2 or 3 point strat team. If this tanky comp was smart and saw a team of squishies they would immediately go for 3 nodes.

TLDR; if a squishy composition had the ability to play for 3 nodes they would, but they do not. As such they are by default playing the strat that gets less points even when clearly controlling the game (2 point strat). Increasing score from kills slightly can help make the 2 point strat a more solid game plan and at the same time increase composition diversity by allowing teams to exist that aren’t 3+ tanky members.

Thoughts anyone?

Edit: This could easily be publicly tested by just adding this option on to Custom Arenas and letting some scrims/tournaments be held with kills being worth varied amounts of score.

Absolutely agree with you on this one. I’ve always thought that kills should be worth 10, I was actually surprised when I got the game and found out that kills were only worth 5, which is a relatively insignificant amount towards winning the game. I think doubling the point value for kills would give a lot more viability to bursty team comps and hopefully push gameplay to a faster paced nature than what currently exists. More value for kills would also have the added benefit of putting more spectator focus on the fighting itself, rather than the map control which is the less exciting aspect of the game for most observers.

I agree with both of you.. Would also, just maaaaaaybe, make people care more about rezing etc since a death would be so much more punishing.

Yeah, basically the room for error that a tanky comp brings is currently disproportionately better than trying to run a bursty comp. Making kills worth more would definitely help bring that back into balance.

This is a great idea!

+1

Good idea Phanta. I approve.

Good idea but I think the 10 points cymerdown recommended would be better. An increase to 10 points would also mean a player would have to effectively hold a neutralize for 20s to make their sacrifice worth it.

Even if this is not changed for team ques i would love to see custom arena gain the functionality to change around values given from different events. This would allow for the community to test out different things like: higher points for kills, different values for boss and lord kills, and maybe even points for killing treb

It is such a great idea but I don’t think it’ll ever happen.

:(

I personally think a kill should be 20 points just to make dying REALLY matter, but that’s probably just me.

I like the idea.

If kills scored 10 points, games in foefire wouldnt end by timer. It would also increase the number of comebacks.

hehk.8705:

Even if this is not changed for team ques i would love to see custom arena gain the functionality to change around values given from different events. This would allow for the community to test out different things like: higher points for kills, different values for boss and lord kills, and maybe even points for killing treb

this would be great, I actually thought custom arenas would work this way when they were announced. You could make pure death matches or put the focus more towards killing players or bosses/lord. A change in solo-/teamqueues could then follow after testing in custom arenas if the players like it.

Honestly, if I was going to increase the point per kill to 10… I’d also disable the side nodes, making it effectively King of the Hill with some side objectives you can use to keep in the fight. That would create a more kill centric game mode where holding a cap would give you a marginal advantage.

And yeah, custom arenas could use more toggles for this kind of stuff.

Some time ago i was thinking about an easy and cheap way to implement and test a different game mode, more suited for team fights.
What if we didnt score points on holding a point but just on capping it and for each node controlled you get a boost on point per kill ?
For example: 1 kill with no points captured = 5 score points
1 kill with 1 point captured = 7 score points.
1 kill with 2 points capped = 10 points.
1 kill with 3 points capped = 15 points.
Capping a point = 5 score points.

Wins who get first to 500.

I think such a game mode would be interesting and could bring some variety into the game, totally shaking off the actual meta, and allowing more new builds to have a reason to exist.

Hmmmm… Might be just me but I actually prefer it the way it is right now. Seems kills still matter but main focus is definitely on keeping points, which is what I thought was the point of this gamemode…

I think this would be fun to experiment with. Anet, make it happen please

I think this is an excellent idea, Phanta, especially just adding the option to custom arenas.

As others have noted, not only does increasing the “cost” of death make 2-pt strats better, it also increases the risk of playing lame decapper builds or builds that are happy just holding a far point for a few seconds because its more economical.

Kills should be more important in-general, as the whole purpose of pvp is to kill other people. At this point, PvP nodes completely take emphasis away from the fight as opposed to simply providing a structure for fights to happen.

+1 for this.

I like this idea, and some changes it could bring. I would want to be able to play 3 points with out having that lingering feeling of fragility in a team comp. Comparatively to more defense/tanky team comps this would most certainly balance things out in terms of in game strategy.

+1 (Or at least +1 to fixing that playstyle, not sure if increasing killscore will fix that)

This is the main reason I hate foefire

Obviously there is a balance to be had here; if kills were worth 100 points then no team in their right mind would attempt to 3 cap because somebody would be getting ganked very quickly. Grouch is right that the game would be come more defensive… people would just play the same builds but group up and use 2 point strats, leaving bursty teams still out of the meta.

I’m not sure how to determine what the right number would be to make both viable, but I guess a slight nudge couldn’t really hurt

Josh Davis.6015:

I may just be a skeptic, but I feel that increasing points per kill, at least in the current meta, would just push players even further into defensive/attrition builds rather than offensive. It’s safer.

That is sort of how I thought of it, it would be a nice option, but the more valuable a kill is the tankier the average build will be, I for one don’t want to see a higher ratio of bunkers on the field.

I think that points for killing is fine right now.

Midgame, kills won’t matter, but it matters most in early games, late game and when scores are tied.

Otherwise, if kill gives more, just make a death match gamemode instead.

Josh Davis.6015:

I may just be a skeptic, but I feel that increasing points per kill, at least in the current meta, would just push players even further into defensive/attrition builds rather than offensive. It’s safer.

that was exactly my thought on this topic.
however, that’s something that i actually would want to see in the game (10-15 points for a kill) but i don’t think it would work in this meta. lots of changes would need to be made previously before such a thing could be introduced and not get out of hand.

the best compromise i can think of for now is giving people the option to change the amount of points per kill in ca. this and the option to turn off the points would make it possible to simulate deathmatch (100 pts per kill) or even sudden-death matches (500 pts per kill) and those solutions at least to me sound much easier to achieve than making a new pvp-mode or designing a new map for that purpose.

1) point from grouch is right – people would go more bunkerish
2) or more selfish – atleast in soloQ – PugTeamQ

• atm everyone/most thinks he is the imba roamer and run around ignoring team and just do things without any tactic/strategie or any sense bout rotation and just fight
• often when have 2+ from a class (most thiefs, dps-guards or warriors) this guyz dont care for objectivs and just run to “hit” something – and more pointz would only encourage more this brainless playing
• it maby can work in high lvl tournament TEAM play but it would not work in rest of the game

eh… everyone is already running full bunker max cheese mode…

Capturing and holding points should always be worth more than killing. If you want to kill stuff just go play call of duty…

One reason I like Phanta’s suggestion is that it would disincentivize people trickling into a point one by one and dying just to keep it neuted. I’m sure everyone just loves those Foefire games where you can’t fullcap mid despite winning every team fight, because the enemy team keeps running to mid one by one after ressing. Awarding more points for kills would penalize that sort of nonsense.

The idea is a little different but the results sound very similar to the results of this idea posted several months ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/You-chose-conquest-make-it-conquest/first#post2374957

His idea would even negate the “more tankier” playstyle, because bunkering several points for a long time gives the other team the chance to overrun one point without gaining a too large point disadvantage.

Cynz.9437:

eh… everyone is already running full bunker max cheese mode…

Yea this is what I thought at first, but realize that they CAN go more bunkerish if they spread out less (stick to 2 points) because 4 bunker cheese is much harder to kill than 3 bunker cheese