Guild Wars 2

As it stands Invis is arguably the best buff one can obtain, and its game-breaking. Whats better then doing tons of dmg and whats better then taking less dmg? Taking no dmg, taking no targeting, and taking no vision. You may argue that this is a theif class mechanic however, its not specific to the theif, lots of classes can go invis. Unfortunetly however thief invis is the strongest and is set up in such a way that no class has a counter to it. For example, in wvw or spvp in a 1v1 situation 1 of 3 things will happen. Either one, the thief will kill the opponent, two, mess up and die to the opponent, or three, go invis, fully heal, and start the fight all over again until either 1 or 2 occurs.

This is completely different then fighting any other class especially when chasing. Where did that warrior go? oh he charged off in that direction, that ele rode the lightning over that way, that ranger swooped over there, the mesmer teleported that way(they are slow so even when the pop out of invis 2 seconds later they are still right there..). The thief is freaking GONE, I have no idea where he went.

Now Im probably going to take a lot of heat since half of you players are asuran theif/mes anyways but hear me out. Now I’ve got some options Id like to shoot out. First would be to remove this cowards weapon completely. No classes get it. THEN raise theif and mesmer hp/toughness so they don’t die in two hits, and or give them mobility skills. Theif is medium armor anyways, why are they softer then rangers and engis?

Now my second option which I think is better and almost a no brainer would be to give players activatable true-sight abilities. WoW which is the grandfather of this game and mmos in general, and which has years of balancing behind it uses this system. It had it from the start because invisibility is too strong when left unchecked, their developers knew this. But its not the only game that has a counter to invis. Dota, LoL, HoN even Skyrim! lol! they all have a counter to invisibility. Everyone uses a stun-break because a mace warrior will pwn them with 100b right? Why not an invis-break? Why put in a stun break which affects the warrior class the most and not have a true sight which would affect thieves the most? obvious answer is not enough testing.

The final option would be to reduce the length of invis(again…) max 2 seconds. 2 seconds not enough for you? play ele, guardian, war or ranger and feel whakittens like to have targeting on u 100%(well 95% for ranger) of the time. The feeling of overpowering onslaught that you can not simply vanish from til ur heal is back up.

But jk… that wasnt really the final option. Final option would be to give players silhouettes when invis and remove name tag so invis isnt as effective. For example the cloaking in halo or super smash brothers. Maybe even completely invis for 1 second, and then silhouette. Up close this may not be a big deal, hey there u are let me chase u (but a tricky theif will get away using the deception) but up on a castle tower you might not see the mass invis zerg below or the theif creeping into ur suppy camp.

Well anyways that was my two cents, hope someone likes my ideas. Sorry but game is just getting on my nerves from theives going invis whenever they are about to die completely stopping combat then 20 seconds later popping out fully healed having u start the process all over again. Only thing worse then then shortbow theif who refuses to give up kiting u even though hes doing NO dmg is a phantasm duelist mesmer with an ego. Yeah man you did a good job of running away and pressing 5 whenever it was up(every 20 seconds), very commendable, round of applause everybody.

Sami.7923:

Either one, the thief will kill the opponent, two, mess up and die to the opponent, or three, go invis, fully heal, and start the fight all over again until either 1 or 2 occurs.

Oh my, reminds me of WoW where Rogues would recuperate and run hahaha

As for the rest of the post, I have no problems with stealth whatsoever at this point. I don’t main a class that requires or has access to stealth, but I can safely say at this point, it’s not broken.
But that doesn’t mean I like Phantasm Mesmers any bit.

The best buff in the game is Protection by far, not Stealth. Stealth decaps the points, protection makes you very hard to kill. Add Vigor and Regeneration on top of that. And Stability is good too.

As a Warrior, I can’t understand the complaints about stealth. My cooldowns are generally short enough that, IF the thief needs to run to reset the fight, I’ll be back at full strength by the time he gets back, and he’s just gonna get stomped again. Did he drop Shadow Refuge? Thanks for telling me EXACTLY where you are so I can drop the Hammer/Longbow burst right on top of you. Cloak and Dagger to take a breather? Just giving me a few extra seconds of skill recharge so I can live through the next burst. Honestly, stealth isn’t that bad: Just stop treating it like an invulnerability ability and keep blasting where the thief was, or where you think he’ll be.

Thanks for the advice manijin. Unfortunately I do not have much aoe as a s/d gs ranger. I guess I will have to look into traps.. but yes its mainly the long kitten shadow refuge followed by that healing tree that I am soo unbelievably tired of seeing. Still you pretty much either both give up or you manage to burst the theif down right after shadow refuge before he can get it up again. Which is hard to to with their assortments of dodges and teleport not to mention the trade off between having enough damage to kill the theif in time and having enough survivability for his burst. I will have to do more research into theif skills to figure a better counter for them but man you dont see me just stop fighting that ele, war, guardian, mes, necro. With theif its like this long pause when they refuge where nothing is happening. 3 seconds is more then enuff to easily evade any of my incoming melee attacks. thats the problem with this game its just not balanced. I should have just as good as a time with s/d gs as a/d s/t but unfortunately a/d s/t is much much better in the general meta esp with shamans, clearly stronger then clerics. Like whats gs trait on ranger? just 5% dmg with gs on a master trait, wow anet very creative! Plz do more like this! When I switch to my gs ppl regain like 1/4 of their hp until i switch back to s/d(which is freaking badass!!) but still I refuse to give it up cuz cmon.. twilight ranger? too sick..

I do think that invis is very strong the way it is, but it is absolutely crucial to the way some classes play. It isn’t incredibly OP in PvP except in stealth-bombing for openers, which didn’t seem as popular in the last tourney. In WvW, stealth can be over-the-top in the hands of a decent user, and you only hope of killing some thieves are if they are bad (which happens a LOT).

Anyway, I think it would be awesome if stealth had 1 of the following treatments:
-Transparency instead of 100% invis (so you can pick up slight distortions and don’t get insta-ganked)
-Shimmer on hit, so that spamming auto-attacks can give you some kind of visibility and stealth isn’t 95% get-out-of-jail-free.
-Revealed on attack with a target. If your backstab is blocked/evaded you just got outplayed and ought to face the consequences. Even better, the reveal should be at the beginning of the attack to make quick reaction possible, but very hard. This also solves the HS spammers closing in without having to care about direction/positioning

I don’t think it is as large of a problem as you make it out to be. Now shadow refuge has always seemed bugged to me but I get the feeling thief players QQ’d and it ended up staying that way. I really don’t like anything about that skill, it ends up being an AoE check which there is already too many of. If you don’t have the aoe to take down the thief in shadow refuge they are gone and you don’t even have any information on where they went, if they died, nothing. It just has so much versatility for a kitten cd.

Personally just fix the bug where the thief remains stealthed after it expires then drop the cd to 40s. Maybe increase the duration to 5s but don’t try and satisfy thief players at the expense of game play. Oh and reduce the portion of the screen its animation takes up, just more unnecessary clutter.

The other thing they should do is change it so if you use a skill, whether it hits something or not you are revealed. Its not cool for thieves to use teleports while stealthed or their stealth attacks to have multiple opportunities to land.

Stealth stacking is a problem, but let’s be honest it’s mostly BP>HS spam that’s the issue.

You can dodge cnd, so there is counterplay there. You can’t dodge BP>HS so they get stealth on demand and can stack stealth to stack might and cleanse condis.

And most importantly, if we must remove stealth stacking, thief will need serious help with sustained because the fact is the moment you’re out of dodges and revealed you die in mere seconds.

I think a nerfed form of s/d with much less evades but that style of evasive sustain is where the thief should go.

Make HS not grant stealth on smoke fields. Change the weaponset so its mitigation is blinds. More reliable blinds and you only gain stealth if your black powder shot lands on the target.

Wow thank you for pointing it out that shadow refuge is bugged, makes a lot more sense now. This alone is the basis of my rant, I could give a kitten about the other thief invis skills. Jeez anet u change my pet swap quickness with “your pet gets quickness when you are downed” to satisfy the whims of players moaning about bm ranger and you let something like this ride for this long? Plz show me more intriguing development and I will definitely continue to play this and not Elder Scrolls Online LOL

A few answers to OP:

• Stealth is nearly useless in sPvP.
• A Thief is suppose to get in, hit hard and the gtfo. It’s how the profession is designed, nothing will ever change that.
• Thief is squishy as kitten, and stealth is no invulnerability. A good player will kill a thief when he enters stealth to run away since his hp will probably be about 10%..

I mean, really? Complaints about stealth in sPvP. Wow…

Lol ok asuran theif ur good man, big pro u must be. I think they should make asuran bigger then norn for a day just to kitten off all the pvp tryhards. Stealth is nearly useless in pvp? Jeez wonder why I made paragraphs of posts complaining about stealth in pvp, i must just be joking. Thief can be how ever you build it.. it doesnt have to hit hard, it can hit over time or it can live forever. I see much more cond thiefs these days. The game is designed not to have a trifecta, any class is supposed to be able to do anything, fill any roll. If you read my post youd see I want the to raise theif hp/toguhness so you can stand a better chance agaisnt a warrior etc. but anyways yes really im complaining about your apparently bugged and broken skill shadow refuge which is giving u more stealth then intended.

Geiir.7603:

A few answers to OP:

• Stealth is nearly useless in sPvP.
• A Thief is suppose to get in, hit hard and the gtfo. It’s how the profession is designed, nothing will ever change that.
• Thief is squishy as kitten, and stealth is no invulnerability. A good player will kill a thief when he enters stealth to run away since his hp will probably be about 10%..

I mean, really? Complaints about stealth in sPvP. Wow…

Stealth is definitely not useless.

A good thief would never be predictable to a good player once they go into stealth.
A good player could only kill an average thief.

There are complaints because it is annoying, and the thief can take a risk, and fail only to stealth and recover whereas a warrior or other class would get downed if they make a major mistake.

All stealth has no posturing or animation. Rangers hunter shot/rapid shot/whatever share the exact same posturing. All thief dagger skills have no animation and share the exact same posturing. There is no ability to counter and deny stealth thoughtfully. If your blocking at the time of attack..good one…if you evade and it happens to the attack that was going to grant them stealth,..awesome..but that’s all you can do. The disparity of this is mesmer great sword they lift and arm, or throw their hands down in their posturing on their attacks. If you know mesmer, you know what skill they’re using..guardians have the most overt weapon use posturing and animation, perhaps only second to ranger great sword..these attacks are fairly linear..yet stealth, which is highly tactical has no cue or way of preventing thoughtfully apart from, ‘hoping.’

What is bugged about shadow refudge?

It is suppose to give 3s of stealth per pulse. You can counter it by knocking them out of the field which reveals them or aoe/auto attack in the area. If you don’t want to then just run the other direction. However, it is difficult for new players to learn how to handle stealths.

kirito.4138:

What is bugged about shadow refudge?

It is suppose to give 3s of stealth per pulse. You can counter it by knocking them out of the field which reveals them or aoe/auto attack in the area. If you don’t want to then just run the other direction. However, it is difficult for new players to learn how to handle stealths.

Shadow refuge is not used for the reset as much as it is used for guaranteed rezzes with stability.

And no running in the other direction does nothing considering they have signet shadowstep, shadowstep utility, and steal to close the gap with 8+ seconds of stealth.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

All stealth has no posturing or animation. Rangers hunter shot/rapid shot/whatever share the exact same posturing. All thief dagger skills have no animation and share the exact same posturing. There is no ability to counter and deny stealth thoughtfully. If your blocking at the time of attack..good one…if you evade and it happens to the attack that was going to grant them stealth,..awesome..but that’s all you can do. The disparity of this is mesmer great sword they lift and arm, or throw their hands down in their posturing on their attacks. If you know mesmer, you know what skill they’re using..guardians have the most overt weapon use posturing and animation, perhaps only second to ranger great sword..these attacks are fairly linear..yet stealth, which is highly tactical has no cue or way of preventing thoughtfully apart from, ‘hoping.’

CnD, Dancing dagger, Death blossom, Heartseeker and each different attack during the auto chain have different animations.

CnD has the thief spin the dagger around in a full circle before attacking. If you see the spin, you evade the CnD. The dagger spin even has a particle trail.

Invisibility does NOT need to be removed. Thieves just need to be punished or have a barrier that holds them back from engaging, disengaging+healing+ability cooldowns, reengage, continue the cycle..

Archer Henchman.2534:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

All stealth has no posturing or animation. Rangers hunter shot/rapid shot/whatever share the exact same posturing. All thief dagger skills have no animation and share the exact same posturing. There is no ability to counter and deny stealth thoughtfully. If your blocking at the time of attack..good one…if you evade and it happens to the attack that was going to grant them stealth,..awesome..but that’s all you can do. The disparity of this is mesmer great sword they lift and arm, or throw their hands down in their posturing on their attacks. If you know mesmer, you know what skill they’re using..guardians have the most overt weapon use posturing and animation, perhaps only second to ranger great sword..these attacks are fairly linear..yet stealth, which is highly tactical has no cue or way of preventing thoughtfully apart from, ‘hoping.’

CnD, Dancing dagger, Death blossom, Heartseeker and each different attack during the auto chain have different animations.

CnD has the thief spin the dagger around in a full circle before attacking. If you see the spin, you evade the CnD. The dagger spin even has a particle trail.

On an asura thief the animations are stupidly subtle.

My human thief’s animation is more clear, and oh god nobody will play norn or charr as the animations are so much more telegraphed.

Zenith.7301:

kirito.4138:

What is bugged about shadow refudge?

It is suppose to give 3s of stealth per pulse. You can counter it by knocking them out of the field which reveals them or aoe/auto attack in the area. If you don’t want to then just run the other direction. However, it is difficult for new players to learn how to handle stealths.

Shadow refuge is not used for the reset as much as it is used for guaranteed rezzes with stability.

And no running in the other direction does nothing considering they have signet shadowstep, shadowstep utility, and steal to close the gap with 8+ seconds of stealth.

I use shadow refuge solely as a heal. The dark combo field combined with dagger storm/unload and signet of malice = full hp in seconds

SR used tactical with stability is either a thief popping his elite or any other profession applying it to him. That isn’t OP, it’s smart/tactical play or team work.

Can we make a thread complaining about invulns ? This thread is dumb. IMO

My only BIG issue with stealth currently,(I have many little issues but I think I can overcome them with more experience and practice) is the stealth stomping, what a mega broken mechanic that is , might as well just get rid of the downstate all together if ANet plans to leave this in.

I would like the option of having ranged attacks work against stealthed foes. Currently you can smash out your melee auto attacks and hit the stealthed foe while he is stealthed. You cannot use ranged attacks easily however. Scepter on the elementalist, for example, only has 2 of 4 auto attacks that you can use against an invisible foe but to use them you have to move your camera to an angle that allows the attack to go straight and not into the ground. I’m sure other classes ranged abilities are the same.

This post could have a point if you talked about the real problem of stealth, which is the abuse of group stealthing to no skill instagib someone of the enemy team. That is the real issue of stealth atm. Problem with dueling thieves’ stealth? L2p issue. Mass stealth teamfight openers? Broken, cheap, no skill, only countered by another mass stealth.

Deadcell.9052:

My only BIG issue with stealth currently,(I have many little issues but I think I can overcome them with more experience and practice) is the stealth stomping, what a mega broken mechanic that is , might as well just get rid of the downstate all together if ANet plans to leave this in.

Broken? It’s alot easier to counter than stability stomps of invulnerabilty stomps.

Just read this carefully again, and your problem is just a regular l2pvsthief sickness. D/P or D/D thieves are really up atm, they cant 1v1 most specs in the same skill level. S/D is just so much stronger atm and barely uses stealth. And from your suggestions i can tell that you got pwned by some thief, got bitter and decided to make this post. Again, fighting a stealth based spec thief individually? Fine. Thieves stealthing whole team to cheap insta gib whoever? Cheap and broken.

ahuba.6430:

Just read this carefully again, and your problem is just a regular l2pvsthief sickness. D/P or D/D thieves are really up atm, they cant 1v1 most specs in the same skill level. S/D is just so much stronger atm and barely uses stealth. And from your suggestions i can tell that you got pwned by some thief, got bitter and decided to make this post. Again, fighting a stealth based spec thief individually? Fine. Thieves stealthing whole team to cheap insta gib whoever? Cheap and broken.

Most D/P thieves aren’t permastealth might stack specs, stop being dense. They lose 1v1’s because they don’t run 30 shadow arts.

Nothing really beats a might stacking shadow arts D/P thief who’s patient. If you lose 1v1’s on that build you suck.

Zenith.7301:

ahuba.6430:

Just read this carefully again, and your problem is just a regular l2pvsthief sickness. D/P or D/D thieves are really up atm, they cant 1v1 most specs in the same skill level. S/D is just so much stronger atm and barely uses stealth. And from your suggestions i can tell that you got pwned by some thief, got bitter and decided to make this post. Again, fighting a stealth based spec thief individually? Fine. Thieves stealthing whole team to cheap insta gib whoever? Cheap and broken.

Most D/P thieves aren’t permastealth might stack specs, stop being dense. They lose 1v1’s because they don’t run 30 shadow arts.

Nothing really beats a might stacking shadow arts D/P thief who’s patient. If you lose 1v1’s on that build you suck.

i dont see the point of your reply… since when have “might stacking shadow arts D/P thief” been more than useless in tpvp?
But w/e guys, keep asking for stealth nerfs thus rendering the only thief weapon sets that require a functioning brain useless. Keep enjoying them s/d #3 thief spammers.

ahuba.6430:

Zenith.7301:

ahuba.6430:

Just read this carefully again, and your problem is just a regular l2pvsthief sickness. D/P or D/D thieves are really up atm, they cant 1v1 most specs in the same skill level. S/D is just so much stronger atm and barely uses stealth. And from your suggestions i can tell that you got pwned by some thief, got bitter and decided to make this post. Again, fighting a stealth based spec thief individually? Fine. Thieves stealthing whole team to cheap insta gib whoever? Cheap and broken.

Most D/P thieves aren’t permastealth might stack specs, stop being dense. They lose 1v1’s because they don’t run 30 shadow arts.

Nothing really beats a might stacking shadow arts D/P thief who’s patient. If you lose 1v1’s on that build you suck.

i dont see the point of your reply… since when have “might stacking shadow arts D/P thief” been more than useless in tpvp?
But w/e guys, keep asking for stealth nerfs thus rendering the only thief weapon sets that require a functioning brain useless. Keep enjoying them s/d #3 thief spammers.

Yeah, because heartseeking through bp for stealth as opposed to a dodgeable cnd is so much more skilled than S/D.

I’m tired of this implication that s/d thieves are not skilled. It took serious skill for cutie to not get destroyed on his s/d thief by caed. It takes serious skill to survive as a s/d thief in a team fight with aoe condi bombing.

I don’t get how some of you can even deny this.

S/D may be a bit broken 1v1, but in a teamfight it’s not 3 spam. If you spam 3 you’ve got no shadow returns to cleanse condi. If you don’t root with infiltrator’s properly you’re not gonna land larcenous on someone with a brain. If you don’t manage your dodges well you’ll die in a CC chain or won’t be able to keep momentum.

If S/D was so easy, why did Xeph constantly get blown up in so many of the matches? S/D is very forgiving 1v1. It’s not forgiving at all in team fights.

This is all fine any dandy but stealth should not last longer then 3 seconds. No matter how many times you combo through the dark field. Anything longer then 3 seconds is a free get out of jail card. No other class has dark field to stack stuff with yet shadow refuge will pulse 5 times, giving 3 seconds stealth on each pulse HEALING U AT THE SAME TIME REALLY? are kittening kidding? Im jsut reading this kitten now and its kitten ing me kitten off. but yeah kitten gives you at least 11(15 if you stay in full duration and even more if you comboing while inside) seconds of stealth and the only counter to it is freaking strong and big aoe. and even then, I would glady take some dmg for 15+ seconds of stealth while being healed. This is OP to the max. Dark field on top of 15 sec stealth on top of healing on 60 sec cd? wow, just wow. If you dont think there is something wrong here im sorry but your just a thief in denial. This isnt an L2p play issue, I could give a kitten about other theif skills, they last a mere few seconds JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASSES INVIS SKILLS. Ranger stealth doesnt even really count, the only way ranger stealths is freaking LB(rofl only if it hits) and getting stunned with a master trait. each lasts less then 3 seconds. But yeah SR is gay, prob as gay if not gayer then duelist pistol. There is something wrong when every thief is running this skill. The Cooldown on this skill should be doubled, yeah DOUBLED. When ppl said pet ressing was OP, anet doubled that shout to a whopping 180 sec. But this skill not only guarantees you res ur ally, it can do so much more on 60 sec cd. You dont think SR is OP? Heres a challenge for you theives, name ANY class utilty skill (non ultimate) that you would be willing to replace SR with and why. Bcuz as ranger I can tell you this trumps every single utilty slot skill we have. I would take it hands down over my entire arsenal.

That’s how their class works. Go in for the kill, if you fail, you flee. I have 0 problems with that in pvp. They can come and try as many times as they want, the result is not gonna change. Thieves are not OP. Quite the opposite: burst thieves can’t kill anything with decent stunbreakers and damage. Only class I can imagine to have problems with thieves are rangers.
I heard this wise old man saying a while back: “If rock beats scissors, it doesn’t mean you should nerf the rock.”

Sami.7923:

This is all fine any dandy but stealth should not last longer then 3 seconds. No matter how many times you combo through the dark field. Anything longer then 3 seconds is a free get out of jail card. No other class has dark field to stack stuff with yet shadow refuge will pulse 5 times, giving 3 seconds stealth on each pulse HEALING U AT THE SAME TIME REALLY? are kittening kidding? Im jsut reading this kitten now and its kitten ing me kitten off. but yeah kitten gives you at least 11(15 if you stay in full duration and even more if you comboing while inside) seconds of stealth and the only counter to it is freaking strong and big aoe. and even then, I would glady take some dmg for 15+ seconds of stealth while being healed. This is OP to the max. Dark field on top of 15 sec stealth on top of healing on 60 sec cd? wow, just wow. If you dont think there is something wrong here im sorry but your just a thief in denial. This isnt an L2p play issue, I could give a kitten about other theif skills, they last a mere few seconds JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASSES INVIS SKILLS. Ranger stealth doesnt even really count, the only way ranger stealths is freaking LB(rofl only if it hits) and getting stunned with a master trait. each lasts less then 3 seconds. But yeah SR is gay, prob as gay if not gayer then duelist pistol. There is something wrong when every thief is running this skill.

That’s how SR works and has so for a long time. Its something needed as a thieves are squishi.

It is not a total free get out of jail card. If a thief is using SR to dis-engage or low on HP the becomes a free kill if you

1. knock them out.
2. AOE cleave the area or even auto attack around will still hit.

OP is a ranger & having issues dealing with thief. Seems very L2P issue imo.

kirito.4138:

Sami.7923:

This is all fine any dandy but stealth should not last longer then 3 seconds. No matter how many times you combo through the dark field. Anything longer then 3 seconds is a free get out of jail card. No other class has dark field to stack stuff with yet shadow refuge will pulse 5 times, giving 3 seconds stealth on each pulse HEALING U AT THE SAME TIME REALLY? are kittening kidding? Im jsut reading this kitten now and its kitten ing me kitten off. but yeah kitten gives you at least 11(15 if you stay in full duration and even more if you comboing while inside) seconds of stealth and the only counter to it is freaking strong and big aoe. and even then, I would glady take some dmg for 15+ seconds of stealth while being healed. This is OP to the max. Dark field on top of 15 sec stealth on top of healing on 60 sec cd? wow, just wow. If you dont think there is something wrong here im sorry but your just a thief in denial. This isnt an L2p play issue, I could give a kitten about other theif skills, they last a mere few seconds JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASSES INVIS SKILLS. Ranger stealth doesnt even really count, the only way ranger stealths is freaking LB(rofl only if it hits) and getting stunned with a master trait. each lasts less then 3 seconds. But yeah SR is gay, prob as gay if not gayer then duelist pistol. There is something wrong when every thief is running this skill.

That’s how SR works and has so for a long time. Its something needed as a thieves are squishi.

It is not a total free get out of jail card. If a thief is using SR to dis-engage or low on HP the becomes a free kill if you

1. knock them out.
2. AOE cleave the area or even auto attack around will still hit.

OP is a ranger & having issues dealing with thief. Seems very L2P issue imo.

Yeah, that’s a great idea. Go melee blindly into SF and eat a 6k backstab that sounds smart.

Zenith.7301:

kirito.4138:

Sami.7923:

This is all fine any dandy but stealth should not last longer then 3 seconds. No matter how many times you combo through the dark field. Anything longer then 3 seconds is a free get out of jail card. No other class has dark field to stack stuff with yet shadow refuge will pulse 5 times, giving 3 seconds stealth on each pulse HEALING U AT THE SAME TIME REALLY? are kittening kidding? Im jsut reading this kitten now and its kitten ing me kitten off. but yeah kitten gives you at least 11(15 if you stay in full duration and even more if you comboing while inside) seconds of stealth and the only counter to it is freaking strong and big aoe. and even then, I would glady take some dmg for 15+ seconds of stealth while being healed. This is OP to the max. Dark field on top of 15 sec stealth on top of healing on 60 sec cd? wow, just wow. If you dont think there is something wrong here im sorry but your just a thief in denial. This isnt an L2p play issue, I could give a kitten about other theif skills, they last a mere few seconds JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASSES INVIS SKILLS. Ranger stealth doesnt even really count, the only way ranger stealths is freaking LB(rofl only if it hits) and getting stunned with a master trait. each lasts less then 3 seconds. But yeah SR is gay, prob as gay if not gayer then duelist pistol. There is something wrong when every thief is running this skill.

That’s how SR works and has so for a long time. Its something needed as a thieves are squishi.

It is not a total free get out of jail card. If a thief is using SR to dis-engage or low on HP the becomes a free kill if you

1. knock them out.
2. AOE cleave the area or even auto attack around will still hit.

OP is a ranger & having issues dealing with thief. Seems very L2P issue imo.

Yeah, that’s a great idea. Go melee blindly into SF and eat a 6k backstab that sounds smart.

L2Position yourself. IF the thief is low a few hits will down him. If he leave its prematurely you will see him and suffer revealed buff and cant go back in stealth. So what are you going to do instead? Stand there for the full SR duration, let them regen and wait for the backstab anyways?

I hate to be the guy but this is only a L2p issue for the OP. Stealth has never been a threat just an interesting mechanic.

Yes I can understand it is frustrating for new players but last I checked anything that made them lose was frustrating ae evade spam, stealth, extreme burst etc… tired of hearing these topics.

Kirito this is Mirana btw if you havent already figured out. Maybe it is l2p but you have to understand most thieves I come across do not play like you. When you SR its not a big deal you come out and atk me its respectable, I have respect for you bcuz you fight honorably. Then one of us wins or losses duel, its fasts lasts maybe 5 min. But most thieves I come across refuse to die or give up even though they cannot take me to half hp. They will SR (TAKE THEIR FREAKING TIME!) and hide behind some pillar til they are fully healed and keep trying until they can finally get me with thieves guild or slip up and die to my burst. This makes for an extremely LONG, BORING and ardous match and quite frankly its just become a means of running away and stopping the fight. Like I literally do not want to duel thieves anymore not because its hard or Im losing to them but just the fact thakittens repetitive and annoying, esp shortbow. I will never do enough dmg to them with all the kiting before they can SR but they do literally 0 dmg to me and refuse to change weapons because when they do I outplay and get an advantage on them. Any other class, if the build isnt strong enough it loses. But here the build wont be strong enough but with SR it gives them the means they will keep trying and trying until I call it a tie. U have to understand that there is literally nothing I can do to you when your in SR. Swing my gs around in hopes of hitting u for 15 whole secs? YEah you wont see that slow kitten coming. like I said earlier, when I switch to gs, ppl heal because its dmg and speed is pitiful but unfortunately it is the only aoe I have. The solution would be for me to switch to a/d s/t run spirits and shamans rune and use the spirits to aoe and kitten everything I come across. but cmon.. do we really need another condition spirit ranger owning it up like phantasm mesmer? Wouldn’t you rather take me as I am.

yea honestly i dont think any of you have any idea.. how easy it is.. to murder any thief.. regardless of any build.. try actually playing a thief.. for about a month or 2 and ull pretty much can fight them without even going lower than 14k hp .. thats what im at atm.. and i MAIN my thief and ele. Trust me when i tell you we are the squishiest… classes when we go zerker.. maybe u should spectate on some thiefs in some of the matches that might help a bit.

The way i take on eles on my thief i am S/D build atm people say its the easiest to play you may be right. but i play it WELL unlike some of my other fellow thiefs.. who try and fail at it.. now to take down an ele. you basically shut down his movement.. and that basically goes for every class except for guardian. thats where my build basically truely shines i can shut down. any class with ease.. and still have all my utilities.. not on CD to take you down.. all i do is auto attack you to death.. its sad how OP it is.. and ima admit that truely to you guys.

But half of you are saying this stealth thing is OP it really isnt.. just keep attacking man regardless if the thief is invisible your attacks can still hit him/her AND KEEP UR CALM. #1 rule.. if you start to get fustrated.. your dead.. period point blank.. kiss your tail goodbye. Now the #1 class i really have a problem with on my thief.. is freakin rangers man lol these guys idk if they got a buff or something.. but i cant beat a ranger… its like almost impossible for me now and i have no idea why but yea.. thats pretty much all i got to say on the matter.

It really is a l2p issue on some parts of the matter tho but SF is fairly easy to counter if you have a knockback.. or even just keep attacking in SF TRUST ME no thief will attack you while they are trying to replenish health in SF it just wont happen.. no matter how much you think it will.

I honestly say i take my time in tpvp going 1v1 or even 2v1.. my objective isnt simply to kill you but to keep you busy untill my teammates come help me take you down. thats basically it. but in a 1v1 perspective. yea.. i reset the fight so many times my enemy sometimes just gives up and runs away lmao its truely funny may not be able to kill them.. but if they let there guard down they are pretty much done for. pop haste auto attack you to death :p literally. 3k+ crits.. each hit. on haste.. lasting i think??? 5 sec ? or was it 3 idk o.o one of those xD

kirito.4138:

Zenith.7301:

kirito.4138:

Sami.7923:

This is all fine any dandy but stealth should not last longer then 3 seconds. No matter how many times you combo through the dark field. Anything longer then 3 seconds is a free get out of jail card. No other class has dark field to stack stuff with yet shadow refuge will pulse 5 times, giving 3 seconds stealth on each pulse HEALING U AT THE SAME TIME REALLY? are kittening kidding? Im jsut reading this kitten now and its kitten ing me kitten off. but yeah kitten gives you at least 11(15 if you stay in full duration and even more if you comboing while inside) seconds of stealth and the only counter to it is freaking strong and big aoe. and even then, I would glady take some dmg for 15+ seconds of stealth while being healed. This is OP to the max. Dark field on top of 15 sec stealth on top of healing on 60 sec cd? wow, just wow. If you dont think there is something wrong here im sorry but your just a thief in denial. This isnt an L2p play issue, I could give a kitten about other theif skills, they last a mere few seconds JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASSES INVIS SKILLS. Ranger stealth doesnt even really count, the only way ranger stealths is freaking LB(rofl only if it hits) and getting stunned with a master trait. each lasts less then 3 seconds. But yeah SR is gay, prob as gay if not gayer then duelist pistol. There is something wrong when every thief is running this skill.

That’s how SR works and has so for a long time. Its something needed as a thieves are squishi.

It is not a total free get out of jail card. If a thief is using SR to dis-engage or low on HP the becomes a free kill if you

1. knock them out.
2. AOE cleave the area or even auto attack around will still hit.

OP is a ranger & having issues dealing with thief. Seems very L2P issue imo.

Yeah, that’s a great idea. Go melee blindly into SF and eat a 6k backstab that sounds smart.

L2Position yourself. IF the thief is low a few hits will down him. If he leave its prematurely you will see him and suffer revealed buff and cant go back in stealth. So what are you going to do instead? Stand there for the full SR duration, let them regen and wait for the backstab anyways?

No, go in, thief dodges into you since nothing can be more telegraphed than walking into a shadow refuge swinging your weapon

Either way I eat a backstab but if I don’t walk in it he has to waste a utility to get it to close distance.

And your whole little scenario is meaningless considering good thieves use sr to reset not as a desperate escape measure. They don’t wait till they’re 2-3 autoattacks away from death to pop it.

Why do you guys keep saying that a thief can easily “reset” a fight? You only reset a fight when you are out of combat. When a thief is invisible, he’s still on combat, thus not reseting the fight. Just like to point the misuse of the word, as a newbie can read it and actually think that stealth resets combat.

Furthermore, invisibility is far from OP, especially in tPvP. There’s no such thing as a good 1×1 spec focused on stealth. If you are constantly going invi, you are not contesting a point, automaticaly losing the game, period. Even if you manage to kill the defender after a 2 mins fight, the damage has already been done and your team is behind score points.

As for SR: yes, it’s pretty good but not really a must. Some thieves just prefer to run something else, like SOA, Roll for Initiative,Shadow Trap, etc.

Asomal.6453:

Why do you guys keep saying that a thief can easily “reset” a fight? You only reset a fight when you are out of combat. When a thief is invisible, he’s still on combat, thus not reseting the fight. Just like to point the misuse of the word, as a newbie can read it and actually think that stealth resets combat.

Furthermore, invisibility is far from OP, especially in tPvP. There’s no such thing as a good 1×1 spec focused on stealth. If you are constantly going invi, you are not contesting a point, automaticaly losing the game, period. Even if you manage to kill the defender after a 2 mins fight, the damage has already been done and your team is behind score points.

As for SR: yes, it’s pretty good but not really a must. Some thieves just prefer to run something else, like SOA, Roll for Initiative,Shadow Trap, etc.

When your heal is a 12-15 sec cd it’s as good as a reset.

And a permastealth build does not take 2 mins to kill. It doesn’t even take 30 seconds.

Permastealth builds still have backstab, and stack might instead of putting points in the power line.

I haven’t seen any invis issue’s… See what I did there ;-P

Invis has always been a cheap/dirty/lame/frustrating mechanic to face in PvP in games.

While it can add a element of ‘never being safe’ never knowing when someone is going to attack. What makes it ‘frustrating’ in this game is. Thief has many ways to access invis, and many many ways to escape the fight.

Worst, is that, even if you hit a invis. They don’t get busted/stealth. (Not like it’s not a big ‘guess’ with lots of aoe templates to the circle he’s actually standing in).

It’s brake stun/CC, suddenly burst enough damage to take down most the thief’s life, and then CC chain them before they get away.
OR, Let the thief do there best to take you down, till getting bored. With a get out of jail free card at any time. Even if it takes them 10 attempts resetting the fight using your CDs to slowly take you down.

So, my issue’s are. The amount/ease of ‘invis’ ‘reset’ ‘escape’ at any time. It’s not the long wait till they appear, knowing they floating around. It’s not guessing where they moved and busting them with lucky placed damage. It’s just trying to get them brave enough to not get out of jail free, and CC fest them.

Zenith.7301:

kirito.4138:

Zenith.7301:

kirito.4138:

Sami.7923:

This is all fine any dandy but stealth should not last longer then 3 seconds. No matter how many times you combo through the dark field. Anything longer then 3 seconds is a free get out of jail card. No other class has dark field to stack stuff with yet shadow refuge will pulse 5 times, giving 3 seconds stealth on each pulse HEALING U AT THE SAME TIME REALLY? are kittening kidding? Im jsut reading this kitten now and its kitten ing me kitten off. but yeah kitten gives you at least 11(15 if you stay in full duration and even more if you comboing while inside) seconds of stealth and the only counter to it is freaking strong and big aoe. and even then, I would glady take some dmg for 15+ seconds of stealth while being healed. This is OP to the max. Dark field on top of 15 sec stealth on top of healing on 60 sec cd? wow, just wow. If you dont think there is something wrong here im sorry but your just a thief in denial. This isnt an L2p play issue, I could give a kitten about other theif skills, they last a mere few seconds JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASSES INVIS SKILLS. Ranger stealth doesnt even really count, the only way ranger stealths is freaking LB(rofl only if it hits) and getting stunned with a master trait. each lasts less then 3 seconds. But yeah SR is gay, prob as gay if not gayer then duelist pistol. There is something wrong when every thief is running this skill.

That’s how SR works and has so for a long time. Its something needed as a thieves are squishi.

It is not a total free get out of jail card. If a thief is using SR to dis-engage or low on HP the becomes a free kill if you

1. knock them out.
2. AOE cleave the area or even auto attack around will still hit.

OP is a ranger & having issues dealing with thief. Seems very L2P issue imo.

Yeah, that’s a great idea. Go melee blindly into SF and eat a 6k backstab that sounds smart.

L2Position yourself. IF the thief is low a few hits will down him. If he leave its prematurely you will see him and suffer revealed buff and cant go back in stealth. So what are you going to do instead? Stand there for the full SR duration, let them regen and wait for the backstab anyways?

No, go in, thief dodges into you since nothing can be more telegraphed than walking into a shadow refuge swinging your weapon

Either way I eat a backstab but if I don’t walk in it he has to waste a utility to get it to close distance.

And your whole little scenario is meaningless considering good thieves use sr to reset not as a desperate escape measure. They don’t wait till they’re 2-3 autoattacks away from death to pop it.

They have to remain in the SR. Doesn’t matter if they try to dodge. You are applying pressure and making them waste more endurance. If you don’t think you can survive then you have at most 4second time create distance making it harder for the thief.

Your mentality of “either way you will get backstab”. You have just given them a free kill.

It’s my mentality because I play a D/P shadow arts permastealth thief and I pretty much win 1v1 against any class if I’m patient, perhaps ranger being the hardest.

I know you guys love to pretend like stealth is fine, but play other classes before shooting off your mouth. Stealth is an amazing survival tool.

Just tried to make a invis ranger build which focuses on the LB and hide in plainsight with remorseless. I was running valkyrie(because opening strike always crits) and dueled some ppl. To my surprise my bow did NO DMG to anyone, not mes, theif, guardian, or war. Keep in mind im running 30 in my powerline and 20 in precision. My GS showed that it had 3330 attack while my longbow sat at 2400(Wow! Thanks anet god forbid we use bows outside of wvw) I only did this because I figured the bow 5(barrage) would help me with SF. Did nothing as the thief just sat in it. I ended up dueling a shamans spirit ranger who creamed me of course then afterward had the nerve to say “word of advice.” “Non-condition rangers sucks” What a jerk right? I told her “Phantasm duelist owns in duels, doesn’t mean the player is good”. She was like "but im ranger.. " then I said “shaman cond spirit ranger is top meta.” Then she got quiet cuz she knows shes nothing special.

Zenith.7301:

It’s my mentality because I play a D/P shadow arts permastealth thief and I pretty much win 1v1 against any class if I’m patient, perhaps ranger being the hardest.

I know you guys love to pretend like stealth is fine, but play other classes before shooting off your mouth. Stealth is an amazing survival tool.

You’re wrong. There are plenty of selfish 1v1 specs across most classes that will consistently beat a D/P build with 30 in shadow arts. What’s more, there are quite a number of team oriented specs that are currently played in tournaments that will beat a 30 SA D/P thief as well.

This is why you don’t see tournaments flooded with Cruuk style farpoint assaulters. Because backstabbing a spirit just extended a fight and lost your team 30 points.

If you’re playing low tier hotjoin bads sitting in duel servers and think you’re up against the best X of a class, you’re wrong. If you think ‘not dying’ is enough to be viable when any point you’re fighting on will reliably get capped on you, you’re wrong.

P.S. The animation on asura isn’t very hard to see if you practice against it unless the thief is using a specific set of daggers which maybe 2 thief players use. Additionally, D/D is trash, and P/D telegraphs their CnD with their position, so CnD should never be an issue.

P.P.S. Can we get something like teamliquid’s moderated strategy forum so that we can have solid commentary without all of the noise?

haven’t seen one of these in a while

thats you guys problem right there you think every thief is the same and running the same old backstab build THAT build.. is soooooo OLD it got nerfed to hell.. i admit its still pretty good but for tpvp… no… the only reason players even pick that build is because it literally takes 0 skill to even remotely use it.. any new player can freakin auto attack and spam HS its sad.. but us veteran thiefs we dont use this build.. at all.. we actually know how to play our class.. their is no need for backstab. This whole rant started because you were being annoyed by a thief who kept going stealth and reseting the fight. that doesnt mean you can call out for a nerf.. Most of the classes at this point in time can reset fights.. now.. run away.. heal back up and come back for more.. thats what it means to reset a fight.. do you know how easy it is to do that on a warrior.. and mesmer.. and ele.. and thief.. and engi… like are u serious right now lol? stop complaining and just freakin pvp i know its annoying but thats how it is.. deal with it.. ima thief.. and when i face other thiefs.. i dont complain about them reseting the fight.. it doesnt matter.. because when they come back my haste will be off of cooldown.. and i can down them in 2 seconds.. flat.

I’m seriously lol’ing at some of these misinformed individuals about Shadow Refuge utility being “OP” and whatnot when there is multiple counters to seeing a SR field pop up.

First of all, aoe cleave isn’t mitigated, if a thief pops that alone, spam some aoe on it. If that thief was low there’s a chance they will be down even while in stealth, all it really takes it interrupting them healing once while they’re in that prolonged stealth to find them visible before they self rez.

Second of all, knockbacks … can quite effectively waste a 60 second CD for a thief AND it puts the revealed debuff on them. This is quite a drawback to such an “overpowered” utility.

Last of all … I got the lol’s from someone thinking you can blast finisher Shadow Refuge being a “Dark Field” to stack more stealth. This is false information. Blast finisher dark field causes AoE blindness and does not actually stack more stealth, furthermore, trying to blast finisher for stealth in combat with enemy players nearby is asking for a revealed debuff.

The only imbalanced thing about thief stealth is Infusion of Shadow having absolutely no internal CD. This alone allows for thieves to permanently run around a map in stealth, which is 100% similar to WoW rogue game play IE: Stealth forever while waiting for that opportune moment.

Of anything, that of all things allows for the very least amount of counter play available. Especially in a 1v1 situation … D/P thief starts getting low, disengage to a safe enough distance that doesn’t end combat, 5 into 2222, wash rinse repeat until full, fully stacked might, CD’s are back, and you’re ready to try again!

^ This kittencrap right here is boring and lame, furthermore, in most cases it actually ends up hurting your team because so much time is spent in stealth instead of on a node contesting / capping it or just being an opportunistic ROGUE with little risk vs reward in how much time you can spend looking for the right moment.

If anything, THAT is what should be discussed, not a freakin’ utility skill that is actually not broken or bugged anymore.

The previous issue with Shadow Refuge was that you were limited to the restraints of the radius you put it down, even after the circle disappeared. If you stepped outside the radius of nothingness that’s not there anymore, you’d get revealed debuff.

THAT was the bug … not the fact it has always stacked stealth.