Guild Wars 2

A team of 5 players in a conquest map with 3 capture points means they have to split in such way that quite often a player will face an opponent player 1vs1 over a point. Since 1vs1 balance is quite like rock-paper-scissors meaning that dragonhunter can hardcounter thief, mesmer can hardcounter revenant etc etc, the dominant class will capture the point and propably win the game for his team.

I believe this can be solved by adding more players to the PvP maps making it like 8vs8 or even 10vs10. (it does NOT mean the old 5vs5 should be removed, you can just have both versions of each map and let players decide which to queue for)

So in a 10vs10 game if a small team of players go against another team over a capture point, (even if outnumbered like 2vs3), the fight wont be about 1vs1 class balance anymore. Its gonna be more about cooperation, positioning, prioritization etc.

With 8v8 or 10v10 you make necromancer a total useless run-die-run back bot. It cant even survive in 5v5’s if you add more players to the game you kill that class completely.

Its another story if we get some mobility and ways to 100% damage mitigation.

the 5 over 3 split is actually a really good ratio for point objectives. If you have less than 5 then teams will stop pushing far due to lack of manpower. If you have more than 5 then bunking points becomes too easy due to excessive manpower making decaps impossible.

5 is just enough to incentivize playing all three points, while still being small enough to prevent stagnation.

There was a 8v8 and 10v10 version, at the start of the game, but that amount of players was a big problem, expecially when you fare a 8v8 fight in mid.
Think at the powercreep, then think that 6-8 players are focusing you. How long will you last? Only the DH will survive, with an incredible long active defence, all the other classes will fall really quickly and the amount of AoE will be totally insane. It was a pure zerg fight, nothing more.

In the months after the release, the developers found that the 5v5 version was the more balanced and easy to balance.
You will have 4v4 fights in the mid and 1v1 offpoint or in close/far, granting for every build a chance to fight, be good and survive.
Now you send the class with better chance to win a 1v1 to cap (and eventually hold) close or decap far, all the others go mid and fight as a team, granting to support and team-based builds to have a chance to be useful. Then, there’s the problem of the mobility, forcing you to have at least a class able to move quickly point by point, granting to other builds a chance to be.
Also the teamplay become important, the player/class rotation become of vital importance. If your thief can’t hold the close you send the guardian to do that and call the thief in the mid, similar things.
You don’t have enough players to do everything and that force you to play better.

The 5v5 force you to chose wisely the classes and, expecially, the builds to use to make your team.

Atm the classes focus more on the 1v1 than on the team fight, but also because you’re really few players and you need to be able to kill or survive when the match force you into 1v1.
At last you can add a single player and do a 6v6, but not for shure a 8v8 or a 10v10, that will be only a zerg game, nothing more.

Conquest is the issue.

Conquest is not an issue, but for shure impose to the player specific builds to use.
For shure make another sPvP area with new maps as a Deathmatch tournament would be good. Like make a specific queue for Countryard as they did for stronghold.

10v10 could work with larger maps and faster spawn times, been done plenty elsewhere including GW1. 5v5 has a good feel about it as well, we have room for both.

I think solo players should get a new game mode that don’t take as much brain to win as conquest but still fun.

A lot of players still don’t know how to play conquest and you have to play with them and see on map you play like 3v5 because you have 2 peoples at terrible positions outside of points or doing beast when they are required in teamfights + enemy also steal beast sometimes thats the best situation ever. They just take cap then leave it dont care about it zerg like stuped or fight out of points.
If i care about it while hope support will come but no support dont come i get stomped so after that enemy again have atleast 2 points.

We just need a “Capture the Flag” like game mode, not conquest.

As you just need to go to enemy base cast 5 sec on flag or stuff to steal it and run back to your base with the flag or stuff and activate it with 5 sec cast.

If you die on the way with the stuff your teammates can pick up if you are not able to pick up the stuff in 15-20sec the stuff automatically goes back to enemy base and you have to steal it again.

Everyone have to move to the same place all the time for success so its not hard on brain for most soloers.

1v1 problem solved.

Solo players that are true “solo hero bads” not smart or not tactical/teamplayer in solo q problem solved.

Matchmaking is bad sometimes you play with smart people that know how to conquest and sometimes you play with peoples making stupid things, decisions.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a Courtyard style que as well with a couple of maps to rotate through, and a king of the hill style que. 1 big capture point in the middle, longer death timers, encourages fighting as a team rather than people trying to be solo flankers. It could have secondary objectives as well which might neutralize the point from the other team, provide buffs, etc. Point of the game being to hold the point as long as possible, either running the game on a 10 minute timer with the winner being whoever has the longest capture time, or having a set winning score. I also like the idea of deathmatch style games. First team to 3 points wins. Teams gain a point by eliminating all opposing players. Once you’re dead, you’re dead until the next round. Could even work as a 3v3 style que and reuse the deathmatch maps so you wouldn’t need to make all new maps for it.

I think 3v3 games could be interesting on the smaller maps (foefire mainly), but I definitely would not want to play a map with more than 5 people on each team

I have to disagree.

5 vs 5 on 3 node points is a great idea. It creates situations where you can play offensively or defensively and allows different types of team tactics.

The issue has and always be build diversity and style of play.

Since the D/D ele meta its was run to all 3 nodes with your all around build.

HOT season 1 came out and it was run to all 3 nodes and bunker them.

To now S4 where zerging is being seen in competitive play from the last ESL and Tol tournaments.

Obviously Anet inability to create another game mode people want to play has its effect. I personally liked the death match map and others have stated they have liked stronghold but both have major weaknesses.

Those weaknesses become even more obvious from the previous point that Anet has not create a balanced PvP game.

I look at GW2 PvP like Pro Basket Ball since you have different ways of playing. In the NBA you have teams that play big, that focus on rebounding/defense and time of possession. You have smaller teams who run up and down shooting 3’s and playing small. Both can be effective in the NBA.

In GW2 for the last 2-3 years, 1 style has been the clear better style. There is literally only been 1 way to play this game at a elite level for so long. 5 eles/ 2mesmers-2revs-1 ele/ mesmer-engy-rev-ranger-ele.

No matter what is put in front of us. Whether its 1 vs 1 – 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 it will be broken. A new map, a new game mode, it doesnt matter. Someone/group will find its weakness in that setting and it will be the meta because this game has no build diversity.

If you read this line and only this line, this will be all you need to know.

THE SOURCE OF THIS GAMES PROBLEMS BUILD DIVERSITY.

You’d effectively make Thief & Mesmer the worse class in the game and you’d give matchmaking a heart attack. Not to mention the headaches many players would go through when there’s a stack of 5+ of the same classes.

Gamemodes and Build diversity is what’s hurting GW2 right now, not necessarily the # of players on a map.

But having more players in a map may force them to play other builds perhaps more AoE oriented like staff elementalist, hammer revenant etc

What the issue is indeed.

It’s good, learn to force matchups and take good matchups.

Zilvereen.2091:

But having more players in a map may force them to play other builds perhaps more AoE oriented like staff elementalist, hammer revenant etc

Yes i understand that but by doing that you kill thieves and condi mesmers. Thief already struggled in the Pro scene for 4 seasons. Mesmer was the 1 vs 1 with druid rotating to DH in DH 1 vs 1 situations.

When we had 8 vs 8 it was complete chaos and it was fun. Yet like i said before, if you get ranked ques for it and say lets have a league for 8 man ques, 3 man que, 10 man ques, 2 man ques. Certain set ups will always be stronger because the lack of build diversity.

Now everyone now uses a power amulet, everyone can do burst damage. Only menders and sage are not which is why ele stays in the 5 vs 5 meta but if you remove that amulet it dies.

Increase team sizes another class dies, make it 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 based and something else. The PvP community will find what is broken and exploit it.

Anet made the 1 class rule for ESL because for a solid year teams were jokingly identical. 5 d/d eles, 2 mesmer-2 revs- 1 ele or engy.

Its why ranked is so bad atm, Anet cant balance the game at the Pro level so they forced players to play 1 class. So they come out with leagues where class stacking is allowed. We had S1 where no one died and now we just had S4 where if you run out alone and 2 people see you you die almost immediately.

Im just trying to point out clear as day that Anet has not balanced PvP. HOT specs were not made for PvP. GW2 does nothing for the PvP player to want to stay in PvP and changing it in anyway will not make it better when you can go into guild halls and 1 vs 1 and go into WvW and have zerg battles.

PvP was suppose to be a area of skill, with Anet making classes rock-paper-scissors. The identity of the game is changing which has destroyed WvW and PvP as areas of GW2 to be taken seriously.

I don’t see any problem against current number setting since the game mode is not balance around 5v5 same as lesser than 5v5, I mean the more the merrier but greater than 8v8 that could cause a problem.

I rather play with group of ten people in EBG for a week twenty four seven to defend a keep or take a castle against other twenty people both sides (that makes 30 in total) and call it competitive.

Daishi.6027:

Conquest is the issue.

Spot on.

Silv.9207:

Conquest is not an issue, but for shure impose to the player specific builds to use.
For shure make another sPvP area with new maps as a Deathmatch tournament would be good. Like make a specific queue for Countryard as they did for stronghold.

They are shelving the only other game mode they have come up with (stronghold). 12 months from now everyone will still be playing conquest.

Zilvereen.2091:

But having more players in a map may force them to play other builds perhaps more AoE oriented like staff elementalist, hammer revenant etc

You want more AoE spam?

If you watched Episode 1 of Best Player, you’ll see that I never have a problem fighting on point. Even vs 3 players. It comes down to skill. I can hold off 3 on pretty much any class except thief. And that’s only because holding them off implies they’re still alive. I’d suggest training harder and watching some pro’s play. The game is perfectly balanced imo: those with skill beat those without.

kdaddy.5431:

THE SOURCE OF THIS GAMES PROBLEMS BUILD DIVERSITY.

Which means that 5v5 is the issue.

You will only ever get 5 meta builds while the rest are underpowered, per every PvP players definitions. Yet there are 9 classes. 9 != 5. “Balance” can never be achieved.

Simple as that.

Part of game strategy is rotating your people so that the odds are in your favour. Eg You want your DH to be be where their thief is. Increasing the number of players doesn’t really change anything except that any class can be countered by numbers.

But different maps and objectives with more players would be very nice.

sexuallegend.2153:

If you watched Episode 1 of Best Player, you’ll see that I never have a problem fighting on point. Even vs 3 players. It comes down to skill. I can hold off 3 on pretty much any class except thief. And that’s only because holding them off implies they’re still alive. I’d suggest training harder and watching some pro’s play. The game is perfectly balanced imo: those with skill beat those without.

You think its balanced because you play one of the overtuned classes.
If you think its balanced and you are skilled then show us what you are able to do with necromancer on your own for example thats all i care about.

I don’t care what you do on druid, you said the game is perfectly balanced. So if you think you are skilled and skill beats others like you said: i want to see how do you beat every classes on necro and double DH’s and holding points vs 3 players etc.

I suggest that you suggest peoples also to play a class that can carry them a lot before telling them to train harder.

Rolisteel.1375:

sexuallegend.2153:

If you watched Episode 1 of Best Player, you’ll see that I never have a problem fighting on point. Even vs 3 players. It comes down to skill. I can hold off 3 on pretty much any class except thief. And that’s only because holding them off implies they’re still alive. I’d suggest training harder and watching some pro’s play. The game is perfectly balanced imo: those with skill beat those without.

You think its balanced because you play one of the overtuned classes.
If you think its balanced and you are skilled then show us what you are able to do with necromancer on your own for example thats all i care about.

I don’t care what you do on druid, you said the game is perfectly balanced. So if you think you are skilled and skill beats others like you said: i want to see how do you beat every classes on necro and double DH’s and holding points vs 3 players etc.

I suggest that you suggest peoples also to play a class that can carry them a lot before telling them to train harder.

You do know he’s trolling right? he knows he’s below average

Wickedesigns.1287:

Daishi.6027:

Conquest is the issue.

Spot on.

Silv.9207:

Conquest is not an issue, but for shure impose to the player specific builds to use.
For shure make another sPvP area with new maps as a Deathmatch tournament would be good. Like make a specific queue for Countryard as they did for stronghold.

They are shelving the only other game mode they have come up with (stronghold). 12 months from now everyone will still be playing conquest.

Not that stronghold or deathmatch is much better. GW2 PvP has no push, no joust, very little in terms of game phases within a round, no mid game counter building for a game supposedly about counters, and just boils down to restrictive builds and point rotations…

Which is poorly designed 5v5 pvp content. Sure it MIGHT be better with 3v3 but that only band-aids the bigger problem.

Also it just strait up kills the “Esports” campaign, because the uninitiated don’t want to watch the big mess of visual snow that the game type creates, and majority of the GW2 population would have to do a double take if they even cared enough.

This barrier to entry alone cuts off the amount of people who will watch or get involved. Which by the by, was the fear for why we didn’t balance for 1v1, but I’d wager we’d have a healthier population, and esport scene than we do now if we did.