Guild Wars 2

FIX YOUR BROKEN GAME!!11! NERF MESMAR PLZ – Said by everyone who was turned into a moa

Usually, players who make propositions that a game is imbalanced are players that have just lost a match and are attempting to shift blame away from their bad skills and onto the game itself. Nine times out of ten, the players who call your game “broken” and “imbalanced” because they lost that match wouldn’t be complaining if the situation was reversed.

Contrary to popular belief, it is not an easy task for the developers to balance a game. Balancing a game is like investing in stocks. There’s no clean cut, defined way of doing it. Every game is unique, so most of the time all the developers have to fall back on is their own judgement and experience.

Balancing a game becomes considerably more difficult when your game has multiple classes that play totally differently from each other. Not only do the developers have to design each class uniquely, but they also must insure that one class isn’t inherently more powerful than the other. For example, The Guardian and the Thief are two classes which are arguably exact opposites in their playstyles and in how they function. Sure, the quick Thief can navigate the map very fast in comparison to the slow Guardian, but that doesn’t necessarily make it a more powerful class than the Guardian. On the other hand, the tanklike Guardian has a lot of survivability and defensive potential. Figuring out how to make two different classes with totally different playstyles and abilities in balance with one another is no easy task.

There are certain skills in a game which may seem overpowered at first glance, although when you look at the broader horizon you can easily see that they are not too powerful. When I was turned into a Moa by a Mesmar for the first time, my initial reaction was something to the tune of “Wow, that ability is way too good.” Then I made my own Mesmar and seen the ridiculously long recharge on that ability. Sure, Signet of Humility can turn the tide of a team fight if utilized correctly, which would be totally imbalanced if it wasn’t for it’s long recharge and easiness to dodge.

The most important reason of balancing your game is to make sure that particular playstyles, classes and strategies do not become irrelevant. In an MMORPG, its all about choices, so keeping all classes and builds viable is an important, but difficult task. This is an issue that is seen in the Guild Wars 2 meta with all the Elite Spec builds running rampant.

You also need to balance your game for each experience level. Some cheap tactics may be very effective at intermediate play, but in the competitive scene they are no threat to the health of the game at all. When I first started playing Guild Wars 2, Dragon Hunter traps would constantly kill me. They were hard to avoid and i didn’t know how to play around them. As i progressed, dodging a Dh’s traps became a walk in the park. Dragon Hunters’ traps are a cheap gimmick that will kill new players, which you could argue is a little imbalanced at the intermediate level. But your average joe won’t fall prey to them so easily, and that is what makes them overall balanced.

So, the question I want to pose to you is simple: Is Guild Wars 2 balanced? What changes would you like to see that you think will help make the PvP environment more diverse? If you could scale the balance of this game from 1 through 10, what would you give it?

Good community participation is important when it comes to balancing any game. And no, raging at Anet to nerf Mesmar and calling Guild Wars 2 “broken” is not going to help them make a balanced game. Constructive criticism is the best thing that you can offer.

Moa needs the same buffs as foefire lords. Insane power creep buffed every profession but moa, that’s just unfair to that ever growing population. If you follow the evolution, at some point there will be more moa than mesmers.

To all the moas of the world: RIOT!!

EDIT: sorry I’m too emotional on this matter to be constructive ._.

I actually think the balance we have now is likely one of the best we’ve had in quite some time. But it’s just weird that when a class dominates a whole season, it gets buffed evn more in an otherwise pretty good balance patch.

I’ve played some Mesmer on this build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfClph1fC2qBEgilnjq+PT0FFdxynH7sACgDD-TJRHABAcRAC4JAUfZAd3fAA

It actually feels pretty adequate, not too strong, still strong enough to be played on the highest levels. I feel the main offenders in terms of being too strong are:

1) Illusionary Reversion + Chronophantasma: These two together just make it way too easy to retain your illu’s and just spam out those shatters. Either nerf one of them into oblivion, or give them an ICD of maybe 8 seconds.
2) Signet of Illusions: Just way too strong together with IR and Chronophantasma.
3) Moa: It’s just a totally broken skill, single-handedly making it possible for the Mesmer to win any 1v1 he enters. They should completely revamp it and/or heavily reduce the Moa-duration. Again: The Mesmer has very viable alternatives to Moa, so they could just patch it out of the game for all I care. ^^’

I will start.

I agree with you mister infinitenoah. Balance a game (MMORPG) is impossible. But, there a lot of games that, instead of balance, they swicht the meta every “X” period of time. Well, thats what Arena net did with the up of the warrior in this last pach. Now I think Warrior is going to be back in the meta.

Moreover, arena net also make sure that the different classes changes their builds and playstyles every time they made a balance pacht.

As and example we can say that:

-Guardian was change between tank/healing support —> meditation guardian DPS —> Burning guardian condition-→ trap dps.

- Mesmer was change between shatter power burst dps —> conditions/shatter power dps —> tank support alacrity —> shatter/conditions burst.

- Warrior changed from not being in the meta to hammer/greatsword dps bruiser —> conditions longbow/sword-sword —> tank support shouts (warhorn).

- Ranger change between not being in the meta at all —> pewpew build longbow/greatsword —> condition decap far sword/dagger- axe —> tank support druid

- Engi changed between turrets tanky build —> conditions elexir build —> toolkit decap far build tanky off tank —> hammer/gyro tanky dps

- Thief changed between sword/dagger perma dodge build —> dagger/pistol-short bow build decap assit —> staff build —> not being in the meta at all (remplaced by the revenant)

-Elementalist changed from dps scepter build (first 3months of the game) —> support off tank dagger/dagger —> support off tank dagger/dagger —> support off tank staff —> support off tank dagger/focus.

I did not put the revenant because is a new class. But here is all the meta build and overall changing build for every class. I have to say that Elementalist have been playing the same think during now 3 years.

So, is this game balance ? No. I will never be balance but at least the should put more changes (I mean real changes that need courage) to change the elementalist. I will take and example, league of legends. League of legends is not abalanced game because there is always a couple of champions that are more op than the other ones. BUT, league of legends programmers are not afraid of the reactions of his players and so the make extreme changes between update pachts. That’s what I rerpoach a little bit from Arena net (by hte way I think they are really cool too, I mean they are working good)

So, mister infinitenoah, answer my question:
why does mesmer can play different builds (such kittenter power, tanky conditions chronomancer, tank support chronomancer and hybrid shatter/conditions chronomancer…) without being insulted at the start of the game… and elementalist cant play other builds than support ?

(i you play something else all your team will blame you if lose)

PS: My advise to arena net, do changes, real changes and test it with the players. if it doesnt work, then come back. No one is perfect, in science there is many problems that doesnt have a singular solution. But if you ont try out, you will get nothing.

I like to consider “balance” as two separate issues. One is the inter-profession balance – which classes are viable, how do they compare to each other etc. The other is the baseline power level of mechanics – general damage output, healing, boon uptime, accessibility of evade frames..
On this forum, the two are often lazily lumped together, resulting in nonsense arguments where people completely talk past each other.

In terms of inter-profession balance, I get the impression they’ve completely given up trying to keep all professions viable at the same time. Rather, the “balance” updates simply attempt to shift the meta and prevent staleness. I personally think this a terrible decision, but if they’re dead set on only doing quarterly patches, it probably is the only realistic option.

What I consider a much greater issue is the inflation (power creep) of combat mechanics. Everything is much more extreme now than it was a year ago, and I think the game has suffered tremendously – the skill ceiling is now much lower, build diversity is gone, and post-HoT combat is very reliant on gimmicks and hard counters.

While I think (and based on the discussion on this forum, I’m definitely not alone in this) they’ve massively failed with the power creep, the balance between professions (especially in low-mid tier PvP) is objectively not as bad as it has been at certain times in the past.
Even so, the skill changes often seem random and some of the things they do (or don’t do) are downright baffling. I wouldn’t rate them higher than 4/10 when it comes to balance, mainly because I’m incredibly salty about the power creep, which has essentially ruined the game for me, and because I think releasing skill/trait changes on a quarterly schedule is insufficient and lazy.

GLOR.2489:

I will start.

I agree with you mister infinitenoah. Balance a game (MMORPG) is impossible. But, there a lot of games that, instead of balance, they swicht the meta every “X” period of time. Well, thats what Arena net did with the up of the warrior in this last pach. Now I think Warrior is going to be back in the meta.

Moreover, arena net also make sure that the different classes changes their builds and playstyles every time they made a balance pacht.

As and example we can say that:

-Guardian was change between tank/healing support —> meditation guardian DPS --> Burning guardian condition—> trap dps.

- Mesmer was change between shatter power burst dps —> conditions/shatter power dps --> tank support alacrity —> shatter/conditions burst.

- Warrior changed from not being in the meta to hammer/greatsword dps bruiser —> conditions longbow/sword-sword --> tank support shouts (warhorn).

- Ranger change between not being in the meta at all —> pewpew build longbow/greatsword --> condition decap far sword/dagger- axe —> tank support druid

- Engi changed between turrets tanky build —> conditions elexir build --> toolkit decap far build tanky off tank —> hammer/gyro tanky dps

- Thief changed between sword/dagger perma dodge build —> dagger/pistol-short bow build decap assit --> staff build —> not being in the meta at all (remplaced by the revenant)

-Elementalist changed from dps scepter build (first 3months of the game) —> support off tank dagger/dagger --> support off tank dagger/dagger —> support off tank stafkittenupport off tank dagger/focus.

I did not put the revenant because is a new class. But here is all the meta build and overall changing build for every class. I have to say that Elementalist have been playing the same think during now 3 years.

So, is this game balance ? No. I will never be balance but at least the should put more changes (I mean real changes that need courage) to change the elementalist. I will take and example, league of legends. League of legends is not abalanced game because there is always a couple of champions that are more op than the other ones. BUT, league of legends programmers are not afraid of the reactions of his players and so the make extreme changes between update pachts. That’s what I rerpoach a little bit from Arena net (by hte way I think they are really cool too, I mean they are working good)

So, mister infinitenoah, answer my question:
why does mesmer can play different builds (such kittenter power, tanky conditions chronomancer, tank support chronomancer and hybrid shatter/conditions chronomancer…) without being insulted at the start of the game… and elementalist cant play other builds than support ?

(i you play something else all your team will blame you if lose)

PS: My advise to arena net, do changes, real changes and test it with the players. if it doesnt work, then come back. No one is perfect, in science there is many problems that doesnt have a singular solution. But if you ont try out, you will get nothing.

That is simply a balancing issue.

If this game was perfectly balanced, all classes would have a variety of different but viable builds.

The most important reason of having a proper balance between classes in a game is to insure that one build or strategy isn’t inherently Better than the other. Players should win because they outplayed their opponent. Players should not win because the class or build that they used was just intrinsically better.

While perfect balace is not realy possible and also not needed in a game like GW2 i find it is in a balaced shape.
But there always seem a few things to be a bit too outstanding… Which disrupts balance.
This is when you compare classes. If you look deeper into the classes it comes to diversity, which comes from balancing diffrent builds (traits, skills …) of a class. Here GW2 is not in a good shape. To much “Stuff” is way behind.

And i don´t agree that a build should not beat another build. Its important that builds beat each other in a game like GW2. Of course not because they are plain better. It´s a balanced rock/paper/scissor system that works best.

The most sensible post I read so far tbh. Some minor tweaks are needed here and there but whatever is written in the initial post is just spot on as such.

Agree. The post is very good. The only thing i hope is that there is a competent and dedicated person behind it. GW2 class balace and diversity is to large to just schedule some manpower to it for the next patch.

My only issue with balance in the game, PvP (low level) or PvE wise is that the efficiency of a build is not correlated with the difficulty to play it. Last season had necro as stars because everybody was able to run it and do a minimum of damage by simply putting marks randomly with a copy-pasted build, in PvE the highest dps for raids are either auto-attack or 2/3 buttons.
Sure there is some margin of progression and some necros were actually much better than ranom marks ones but many profession don’t have an “easy” build while some have one that dishes a lot of damages.
On the other hand, a huge problem with balance in PvP come from players who still don’t understand that the game is not a death match game. Sure some builds are really powerful but then try to isolate the player and either kill him 3v1 and disable him from the game or just ignore him if you are 1v1.

I am really looking forward to the next season because mesmer is actually a profession that requires skill. At low-mid level, I have experienced a lot of harmless moa (you run and pick the player but there in no focus on you). The shatter have obvious tells and now if you want to lock a player you also need to place your illusions in such a way that you can remove several stacks of stab with diversion… this is going to be interesting to see how many people will succeed.

infinitenoah.8296:

Contrary to popular belief, it is not an easy task for the developers to balance a game. Balancing a game is like investing in stocks. There’s no clean cut, defined way of doing it. Every game is unique, so most of the time all the developers have to fall back on is their own judgement and experience.

I stopped reading after this.

If you don’t know, “Gw2 Dev” has nothing to do with the Balance team.
There are only people who randomly look at the skills who cause the most death, what they think that could be op and nerv it.

So i am not going to read your post and this game is not balanced, will never be.

Seyiwaji.4082:

infinitenoah.8296:

Contrary to popular belief, it is not an easy task for the developers to balance a game. Balancing a game is like investing in stocks. There’s no clean cut, defined way of doing it. Every game is unique, so most of the time all the developers have to fall back on is their own judgement and experience.

I stopped reading after this.

If you don’t know, “Gw2 Dev” has nothing to do with the Balance team.
There are only people who randomly look at the skills who cause the most death, what they think that could be op and nerv it.

So i am not going to read your post and this game is not balanced, will never be.

The kitten is strong in this one.

No mmo is completely balanced so as far as mmos go I think gw2 has decent balance to say the least. My problem with the game is that most of the current meta builds feel dumbed down and not very competitive, I wish most classes required some clutch decision making instead of I spam this rotation and I win as long as it lands.

Grimreaper.5370:

No mmo is completely balanced so as far as mmos go I think gw2 has decent balance to say the least. My problem with the game is that most of the current meta builds feel dumbed down and not very competitive, I wish most classes required some clutch decision making instead of I spam this rotation and I win as long as it lands.

I agree. But for some profession/builds its seems like its more “I spam this rotation and I don’t die.”

SlimChance.6593:

Grimreaper.5370:

No mmo is completely balanced so as far as mmos go I think gw2 has decent balance to say the least. My problem with the game is that most of the current meta builds feel dumbed down and not very competitive, I wish most classes required some clutch decision making instead of I spam this rotation and I win as long as it lands.

I agree. But for some profession/builds its seems like its more “I spam this rotation and I don’t die.”

Oh man yeah thats the worst, watching two bunkers duke it our or one unviable build using zerker glass cannon still not able to kill the meta bunker is just so depressing.

except that there are some really clear cut, defined ways of doing it. give me the reins and i would have this game spick-and-span in no time. cuz im that good.

Stand The Wall.6987:

except that there are some really clear cut, defined ways of doing it. give me the reins and i would have this game spick-and-span in no time. cuz im that good.

No, there is no clean cut way of balancing any game. Care to elaborate?

Balance is better compared to prev season but Mesmer and Rev still needs a toning down while warrior/guard (vanilla) need some lovin’

Terrorsquad.4802:

Balance is better compared to prev season but Mesmer and Rev still needs a toning down while warrior/guard (vanilla) need some lovin’

Indeed. It appears that the Guardian took the Warrior’s spot as the worst class. A well played DH can still do good at the casual level, but don’t expect anything beyond that.

I know that GW2 developers have the potential to balance the game. We were pretty much close to it pre june 23 patch and the post june patch was arguebly only a tad bit worse.

It’s never gonna be perfect. And i don’t mind thier bieng tiers within classes and hardcounters exists. As long as one class isn’t completely useless. Guardians now are supbar safe for those blessed people with nice skills. still not fodder tough.

All that needs to be done is give DH thier old dps back. And u can argue for it to be somewhat good or give them a bit more sustain with our current damage. Warriors need very slight buff to thier condi cleansing. but very small.

U will still not have quite the build diversity but it’d go in the right direction. I already think it’s decent overall.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

…All that needs to be done is give DH thier old dps back. And u can argue for it to be somewhat good or give them a bit more sustain with our current damage. Warriors need very slight buff to thier condi cleansing. but very small.

Warrior has so many viable options for condi clear, they don’t need more. DH lost some DPS but bringing back 20% of True shot damage won’t make them meta; the problem goes deeper than that. Rather, IMO, it is the projectile hate (particularly) from ele’s and engi’s that needs to be toned down if DH is going to be competitive. The low health-pool is also a contributor but we’d be kidding ourselves if we thought ANet would ever change that.

Balance is reasonable. Diversity is garbage. Matchmaking still sucks balls.

Ubik.8315:

Balance is reasonable. Diversity is garbage. Matchmaking still sucks balls.

+1. Looks like this.

Salamander.2504:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

…All that needs to be done is give DH thier old dps back. And u can argue for it to be somewhat good or give them a bit more sustain with our current damage. Warriors need very slight buff to thier condi cleansing. but very small.

Warrior has so many viable options for condi clear, they don’t need more. DH lost some DPS but bringing back 20% of True shot damage won’t make them meta; the problem goes deeper than that. Rather, IMO, it is the projectile hate (particularly) from ele’s and engi’s that needs to be toned down if DH is going to be competitive. The low health-pool is also a contributor but we’d be kidding ourselves if we thought ANet would ever change that.

Too many options for condi clear? It has some condi clear. But that’s about it. Discipline and defence are the only viable ones. Nobody uses tactics or shouts. Signets are pretty much useless as well. No signet will safe you from the conditions that can be applied constantly by the chronophantasma mesmer, corruptionmancer or even condi malyx revenant. U are better of running the standard berserker stance, cleansing ire etc and the trait that swaps condi’s on weaponswap.

The projectile hate is really just a tad of the problem really. Elementalist don’t Always stay in air attunment or earth attunment for long it’s really situational and said reflects pretty much lost thier effectivness as our true shot’s power decreased.

It’s the traps and nerfs all accros. I mean . Traps lose lots of thier effectivness the moment u fight against average players. Traps become quite easy to deal with. Nerfing traps on of that isn’t quite hand either no need to have nerfed test of faith.

Then they also nerfed shield of courage as well.

Dragonhunter as it was at the start prior to the daze duration nerfs, true shot nerfs, test of faith nerfs. dragonsmaw duration nerf. Hunters ward nerf(as if anybody is gonna stand there for the entire skill to complete). If the just reverted dragonhunter like it was prior to all these nerfs. dps back to it’s old self. All skill mechanics bieng the same minus the bugs. We don’t need invisable hunterwards barriers ofcourse. U can get pretty far as how things have been patched. Honestly I’d argue that u’d barely have to do anything to surviability. Heck u could leave it’s base hp as it is.

Heck make the shield of courage instant and wings of resolve instant and u are semi good to go.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Salamander.2504:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

…All that needs to be done is give DH thier old dps back. And u can argue for it to be somewhat good or give them a bit more sustain with our current damage. Warriors need very slight buff to thier condi cleansing. but very small.

Warrior has so many viable options for condi clear, they don’t need more. DH lost some DPS but bringing back 20% of True shot damage won’t make them meta; the problem goes deeper than that. Rather, IMO, it is the projectile hate (particularly) from ele’s and engi’s that needs to be toned down if DH is going to be competitive. The low health-pool is also a contributor but we’d be kidding ourselves if we thought ANet would ever change that.

Too many options for condi clear? It has some condi clear. But that’s about it. Discipline and defence are the only viable ones. Nobody uses tactics or shouts. Signets are pretty much useless as well. No signet will safe you from the conditions that can be applied constantly by the chronophantasma mesmer, corruptionmancer or even condi malyx revenant. U are better of running the standard berserker stance, cleansing ire etc and the trait that swaps condi’s on weaponswap.

The projectile hate is really just a tad of the problem really. Elementalist don’t Always stay in air attunment or earth attunment for long it’s really situational and said reflects pretty much lost thier effectivness as our true shot’s power decreased.

It’s the traps and nerfs all accros. I mean . Traps lose lots of thier effectivness the moment u fight against average players. Traps become quite easy to deal with. Nerfing traps on of that isn’t quite hand either no need to have nerfed test of faith.

Then they also nerfed shield of courage as well.

Dragonhunter as it was at the start prior to the daze duration nerfs, true shot nerfs, test of faith nerfs. dragonsmaw duration nerf. Hunters ward nerf(as if anybody is gonna stand there for the entire skill to complete). If the just reverted dragonhunter like it was prior to all these nerfs. dps back to it’s old self. All skill mechanics bieng the same minus the bugs. We don’t need invisable hunterwards barriers ofcourse. U can get pretty far as how things have been patched. Honestly I’d argue that u’d barely have to do anything to surviability. Heck u could leave it’s base hp as it is.

Heck make the shield of courage instant and wings of resolve instant and u are semi good to go.

Well yeah, I’m referring to cleansing ire and Brawler’s recovery being great condi clear, as well as berserker stance, and they are absolutely great. You can’t expect every traitline to offer great condi clear—no class in the game has that available to them. For condition management, warriors have Defense and Discipline, mesmers have Inspiration, guardians have Virtues, necro’s have Death Magic and Curses, Rangers have Wilderness Survival and now Druid, and so on. We can’t have it all.

As for DH, it’s OK that not all traps are viable. Most are pretty useless against opponents with a brain—but then, so are most utility skills on most classes. If all of the traps were so good, it would be an even bigger contributor to the HoT power creep. The fact that DH got 2 really fantastic traps (healing trap and TOF) is good enough. Hunter’s ward needed that nerf—there is no reason to have undodgeable anything in the game, let alone undodgeable CC. Instant cast DH virtues just sounds like more powercreep…there has to be some sacrifice for having the superior DH virtues, rather than a straight buff. That concept goes for all classes.

Salamander.2504:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Salamander.2504:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

…All that needs to be done is give DH thier old dps back. And u can argue for it to be somewhat good or give them a bit more sustain with our current damage. Warriors need very slight buff to thier condi cleansing. but very small.

Warrior has so many viable options for condi clear, they don’t need more. DH lost some DPS but bringing back 20% of True shot damage won’t make them meta; the problem goes deeper than that. Rather, IMO, it is the projectile hate (particularly) from ele’s and engi’s that needs to be toned down if DH is going to be competitive. The low health-pool is also a contributor but we’d be kidding ourselves if we thought ANet would ever change that.

Too many options for condi clear? It has some condi clear. But that’s about it. Discipline and defence are the only viable ones. Nobody uses tactics or shouts. Signets are pretty much useless as well. No signet will safe you from the conditions that can be applied constantly by the chronophantasma mesmer, corruptionmancer or even condi malyx revenant. U are better of running the standard berserker stance, cleansing ire etc and the trait that swaps condi’s on weaponswap.

The projectile hate is really just a tad of the problem really. Elementalist don’t Always stay in air attunment or earth attunment for long it’s really situational and said reflects pretty much lost thier effectivness as our true shot’s power decreased.

It’s the traps and nerfs all accros. I mean . Traps lose lots of thier effectivness the moment u fight against average players. Traps become quite easy to deal with. Nerfing traps on of that isn’t quite hand either no need to have nerfed test of faith.

Then they also nerfed shield of courage as well.

Dragonhunter as it was at the start prior to the daze duration nerfs, true shot nerfs, test of faith nerfs. dragonsmaw duration nerf. Hunters ward nerf(as if anybody is gonna stand there for the entire skill to complete). If the just reverted dragonhunter like it was prior to all these nerfs. dps back to it’s old self. All skill mechanics bieng the same minus the bugs. We don’t need invisable hunterwards barriers ofcourse. U can get pretty far as how things have been patched. Honestly I’d argue that u’d barely have to do anything to surviability. Heck u could leave it’s base hp as it is.

Heck make the shield of courage instant and wings of resolve instant and u are semi good to go.

Well yeah, I’m referring to cleansing ire and Brawler’s recovery being great condi clear, as well as berserker stance, and they are absolutely great. You can’t expect every traitline to offer great condi clear—no class in the game has that available to them. For condition management, warriors have Defense and Discipline, mesmers have Inspiration, guardians have Virtues, necro’s have Death Magic and Curses, Rangers have Wilderness Survival and now Druid, and so on. We can’t have it all.

As for DH, it’s OK that not all traps are viable. Most are pretty useless against opponents with a brain—but then, so are most utility skills on most classes. If all of the traps were so good, it would be an even bigger contributor to the HoT power creep. The fact that DH got 2 really fantastic traps (healing trap and TOF) is good enough. Hunter’s ward needed that nerf—there is no reason to have undodgeable anything in the game, let alone undodgeable CC. Instant cast DH virtues just sounds like more powercreep…there has to be some sacrifice for having the superior DH virtues, rather than a straight buff. That concept goes for all classes.

Cleansing ire is completely dependent on wheter u can hit your target. Now with thiefs bieng able to blind you, Or have your attacks outright fail due invulnerability, kiting, skillfull dodging, blocks, that’s quite a problem for warriors. U can have your skills still evaded. Second of all berserkers stance can be corrupted, stripped or u can stack on condi duration and still melt afterwards.. It’s not bad by any means, hence i’m arguing for a very slight access to a bit more condi cleanse. Nothing more, nothing else.

DH are OK. As in subpar. But definately on the lower end now. They are hardly used in Pro leagues. For dragon hunter’s traps to be useless is pretty much having one of it’s main damage dealers not doing it’s work correctly. That’s something one shouldn’t be Ok with espically since they nerfed damage all across and even nerfed shield of courage. Even tough DH has mediocore surviability at best. That’s not good. U cannot justify a few burst heals with sucha low healthpool, low toughness and then nerf it’s only viable burst dps even more.

Hunters wards didn’t need to be nerfed, The skill was incredibly hard to see. I’d say that vissually the skill was flawed moreso then it’s function.

How do instant DH virtues add to more powercreep? Why should a dh be ok with it. espically now that shield of courage was nerfed? If u are gonna make it so that u can be tagged from the sides. Atleast make it so that it’s instant cast.

Wings of resolve is our only other viable way to cleanse conditions in game where conditions can stack long and have relatively low cd’s. Having to jump and then reap it’s benefits is absoultely a dead sentence in such a fast paced game.