Guild Wars 2

On Warrior, yes. It used to be a necessity back when Zerker Stance wasn’t around, now its completely broken. Lyssa on the other hand is just absolute garbage on classes such as Elementalist and Engineer.. and kinda okay on Thieves, Guards and Mesmers.

lollasaurus.1457:

Darnis.4056:

lollasaurus.1457:

Your right guys, these runes that have been in the game since launch are the true source of disbalance in this game.

There is some seriously disbalanced stuff in this game, Lyssa runes is not one of them. People only started using them because of the need for massive cleansing, condispam is the culprit here.

No Having a full cleanse / full boons on 35 second ICD is OP and must be nerfed. Lyssa needs an ICD of 90s or atleast 60s

Having a full cleanse every 35 seconds isnt OP when I can stack a full load of condis back on you within 15 seconds on an engi/necro. And the only class that has an elite up that soon is a thief with venoms traited, pretty terrible example.

L2P

Yeah, and meanwhile condi mesmer/ranger/thief can’t do crap because they can’t just spam higher bleed stacks with tons of cover condis.

The ramp up on a condi mesmer is huge, basically a signet warrior will outheal you unless you have 3 illusions up.

ICD90-120s and are fine.

Zenith.7301:

lollasaurus.1457:

Darnis.4056:

lollasaurus.1457:

Your right guys, these runes that have been in the game since launch are the true source of disbalance in this game.

There is some seriously disbalanced stuff in this game, Lyssa runes is not one of them. People only started using them because of the need for massive cleansing, condispam is the culprit here.

No Having a full cleanse / full boons on 35 second ICD is OP and must be nerfed. Lyssa needs an ICD of 90s or atleast 60s

Having a full cleanse every 35 seconds isnt OP when I can stack a full load of condis back on you within 15 seconds on an engi/necro. And the only class that has an elite up that soon is a thief with venoms traited, pretty terrible example.

L2P

Yeah, and meanwhile condi mesmer/ranger/thief can’t do crap because they can’t just spam higher bleed stacks with tons of cover condis.

The ramp up on a condi mesmer is huge, basically a signet warrior will outheal you unless you have 3 illusions up.

“Why doesn’t my condi guardian/thief/mesmer/x kill anything?”

State of this thread right now – I don’t want to spec into the counter of something to beat something therefore it is OP, Lyssa runes the true source of disbalance in GW2.

Lyssa runes have no counter.

What makes Lyssa so desireable is that it is the only counter to having such a massive amount of Conditions dumped on you.

If classes could only apply..maybe 2-4 different Conditions then Lyssa wouldn’t be all that appealing.

But since Conditions are so abundant and you can quickly find yourself with 8 different Conditions Lyssa are one of the few ways of dealing with it.

Nerf Conditions dumping and you nerf the appeal of Lyssa runes.

Dee Jay.2460:

What makes Lyssa so desireable is that it is the only counter to having such a massive amount of Conditions dumped on you.

If classes could only apply..maybe 2-4 different Conditions then Lyssa wouldn’t be all that appealing.

But since Conditions are so abundant and you can quickly find yourself with 8 different Conditions Lyssa are one of the few ways of dealing with it.

Nerf Conditions dumping and you nerf the appeal of Lyssa runes.

This agree with. Yes Lyssa is OP, but so is a lot of other things. So those defending lyssa, don’t say its not OP. It definitely is. Unfortunately GW2 has boiled down to fighting OP with OP and burst tactics. The TTK is WAY too short, there are too many “infinite” cheesy builds (infinite stealth/unkillable 1v1 no damage bunkers/ yada yada). It is a problem; its just there are many other problems too.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Lyssa runes have no counter.

It is less bad on warrior as the signet is easy to see and you can 1 shot a warrior if you save doom for the lyssa runes. Hard though obv, gotta get in that position first lol

Most of the benifit of “Save Yourselves!” + Contemplation of Purity, without the downside (if your a squishy dps with no interest in support per say), on a potentially lower cooldown than they have in a Guards utility slots, for a 6pc rune bonus?

Lol!

Yes, they are OP.

I’m a mesmer and I run lyssa, why? because I can get out of a 3v1 easily any time I want.

Lyssa is over the top mega super duper OP.

I could see it start eating 5 condies and giving 5 boons(No stab) after necro/engies/Condie warriors are gutted a little or having a 100s ICD

Ridiculous someone comes here to QQ against a rune because can’t spam conditions in warriors.

How many QQ they will make against warriors?
aff

Lissa isn’t OP, the point is that Lissa is good with some elites (in warrior case, only SoR), but anyone come here to talk about Perplexity, Nightmare, Undead or Guardian…

You’re delusional if you think Lyssa is balanced with other runes. Lyssa can effectively be a lower CD Save Yourself+Contemplation of Purity with better boon gain, just not taking the conditions from allies. That’s incredibly OP for a single set bonus… Versus what, you said?
- Runes not usable in spvp.
- A 2 minute cd 1 second fear?
- 5% toughness as condi damage? So… what, 75-90 more condi damage?
- Burning when blocking a very gimmicky set bonus… I fail to see how you’re finding that lyssa is just another one of the many awesome options to chose from.

JETWING.2759:

If is OP just use it :/

exactly

Valentin.2073:

JETWING.2759:

If is OP just use it :/

exactly

no not exactly. >< That’s why this game has evolved into OP vs OP builds and nothing more. And things like this cause a power creep. Oh this is too powerful for condies? Lets not nerf it, lets buff condies. Condies too OP now? lets extend the duration of Zerker stance to 8 seconds. Get the point? Then all you have are OP builds trying to stay relevant and anything else becomes further and further left behind. kitten needs to be nerfed, its part of mmos, some stuff comes down, some goes up to EVENTUALLY find some balance. There’s no balance in everything being OP, it just ruins the game.

JETWING.2759:

Lissa isn’t OP

The question is never about ‘OP’, its whether or not the thing is hurting gameplay.

GW2 condi’s hurt gameplay… Lyssa staves off condis… Lyssa helps gameplay.
QED

ronpierce.2760:

Valentin.2073:

JETWING.2759:

If is OP just use it :/

exactly

no not exactly. >< That’s why this game has evolved into OP vs OP builds and nothing more. And things like this cause a power creep. Oh this is too powerful for condies? Lets not nerf it, lets buff condies. Condies too OP now? lets extend the duration of Zerker stance to 8 seconds. Get the point? Then all you have are OP builds trying to stay relevant and anything else becomes further and further left behind. kitten needs to be nerfed, its part of mmos, some stuff comes down, some goes up to EVENTUALLY find some balance. There’s no balance in everything being OP, it just ruins the game.

just let people have fun, dude. you are running an op build too so i dont get it why you’re getting so worked up about a rune. so what do you want anet to do? delete it?

The fact that this thread has gained so much traction when Lyssa has been in the game since launch (as far as I know, at least) is pretty telling. Lyssa only became “a problem” (notice the quotes) when conditions grew out of control. Recent (compared to launch, at least) changes to the way conditions are applied/access to damaging conditions is the issue, not Lyssa runes. Take care of that issue, and you’ll realize Lyssa runes are fine as they are.

Actually; Lyssa runes were in use even before by players like Jumper, It takes quite a long time to find the new OP rune set;

Svanir>Nerfed>Air>Nerfed>Melandru>Nerfed>Lyssa>Nerfed?

Darnis.4056:

Actually; Lyssa runes were in use even before by players like Jumper, It takes quite a long time to find the new OP rune set;

Svanir>Nerfed>Air>Nerfed>Melandru>Nerfed>Lyssa>Nerfed?

I’d like to say I wouldn’t count on it, but it’s hard to have any real trust in ANets judgement nowadays. They’ll likely cave to QQ rather than follow the logical path.

Darnis.4056:

Svanir>Nerfed>Air>Nerfed>Melandru>Nerfed>Lyssa>Nerfed?

And when haven’t no more thing to nerf, nerf GW2

Stop complaining things that aren’t equal (balanced) gets nerfed. You’d kitten just as much if there was a huge power creep (already happening). You win some, you lose some. But you live. You live to fight another day!

People are running out of things to call OP these days it seems

clint.5681:

People are running out of things to call OP these days it seems

kitten, or there’s a lot of stuff that could be fixed. It’s how the game progresses. You know what doesn’t help? People defending OP things because they don’t want to give up their obviously superior things. AKA powercreep.

ronpierce.2760:

Stop complaining things that aren’t equal (balanced) gets nerfed. You’d kitten just as much if there was a huge power creep (already happening). You win some, you lose some. But you live. You live to fight another day!

You think you’re a man with that keyboard in your hand don’t you?

Invizible.2960:

ronpierce.2760:

Stop complaining things that aren’t equal (balanced) gets nerfed. You’d kitten just as much if there was a huge power creep (already happening). You win some, you lose some. But you live. You live to fight another day!

You think you’re a man with that keyboard in your hand don’t you?

I’m a man without it…

There is a big problem with Lyssa, and why it’s overly popular.

1- There is no Internal cooldown, therefore Elites with Low cd’s benefit greatly from Lyssa.

2- Using Lyssa With a Low Cd elite rivals other classes condi clear and boon gain passively.

Solution

1- You put a 60-90 second Internal cooldown on lyssa, therefore you won’t have classes like thieves and warriors popping their elites prior to the engagement because of the two most important boons from lyssa “stability & Aegis”. And obviously since you have every boon it is very hard to clear it.

2- Make other runes appealing to players. So until lyssa is fixed, “in my humble opinion” atleast make an effort to make other rune sets more appealing. So people don’t have to use lyssa as a unnecessary crutch.

Countless

Warrior build for WvW if you don’t want longbow:

Sword/Shield+Hammer. Signet of Rage+Lyssa runes+dolyak signet+2 stance.

Lyssa runes, cleansing ire, condi duration -% food. Healing Signet.

Basically a class built immune to conditions.

People complain about engineer condi immunity, but warrior has it as well and while being tanky as hell crits my 2k toughness toons for 4-5k hits still.

Near permanent swiftness and 2 low cd gap closers that make you unkiteable by most classes and builds.

ICD to 90-120s, as suggested by many others.

the rune examples given as comparison to Lyssa are a false comparison b/c nobody runs those runesets ( 5s regen on heal or +5% dmg with might ).

compare with ogre, scholar, undead, soldier, forge. the stat gains are what make most of those strong. forge & soldier have very strong 6pc. precision isn’t the greatest stat, you only gain another 4-5% crit rate from Lyssa runes, small gain compared to DPS runes.

increased ICD will balance the 6pc across all elites.

The ICD will change little in that warriors will be able to immune conditions for 8 seconds, you can chain cleansing ire shortly after, and THEN get a full condi cleanse.

The problem isn’t only how often it’s used, but how it allows classes like the warrior to become impervious to condi pressure for vast amounts of time not available to other classes.

if the icd was 120, you would still run Lyssa over any other runeset?

faeral.1840:

if the icd was 120, you would still run Lyssa over any other runeset?

As a warrior or thief, of course.

It;s still like an extra mini elite on top of your current elite. Nothing will match that.

Nothing will match 5 sec stability+ full condi drop.

faeral.1840:

if the icd was 120, you would still run Lyssa over any other runeset?

probably not

tbh lately i actually stopped using lyssa, as other stats are pretty bad in comparison, for thief at least

Zenith.7301:

faeral.1840:

if the icd was 120, you would still run Lyssa over any other runeset?

As a warrior or thief, of course.

It;s still like an extra mini elite on top of your current elite. Nothing will match that.

Nothing will match 5 sec stability+ full condi drop.

I’d argue it’s more powerful than many elite ablities in-game.

Is ArenaNet listening? Do they have an opinion?
If they believe it’s imbalanced, do they have a plan on fixing it?
If they believe it’s balanced, I’d like to understand their rationale, because I cannot come up with one.

They comes here to nerf HS under allegation that HS is passive play, but Lyssa comes just with opposite game play. to use 4º and 6º bonus of Lyssa, a warrior need use his signets.
Look all you how you are forcing warriors to run Dwiana or another rune 100% passive or based on status…
What all you will say after warriors or thieves adapt their game play? Will again comes here and QQ nerf?

Oblivion.8307:

data.4093:

Yeah, condinuking shouldn’t have any counter. /sarcasm

yeah, stunning someone with basi venom shouldn’t have any counter. /sarcasm

And so what? It’s an elite. It doesn’t need a counter that much really. Anything outside of correct positioning I mean.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Is ArenaNet listening? Do they have an opinion?
If they believe it’s imbalanced, do they have a plan on fixing it?
If they believe it’s balanced, I’d like to understand their rationale, because I cannot come up with one.

garethh.3518:

The question is never about ‘OP’, its whether or not the thing is hurting gameplay.

GW2 condi’s hurt gameplay… Lyssa staves off condis… Lyssa helps gameplay.
QED

garethh.3518:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Is ArenaNet listening? Do they have an opinion?
If they believe it’s imbalanced, do they have a plan on fixing it?
If they believe it’s balanced, I’d like to understand their rationale, because I cannot come up with one.

garethh.3518:

The question is never about ‘OP’, its whether or not the thing is hurting gameplay.

GW2 condi’s hurt gameplay… Lyssa staves off condis… Lyssa helps gameplay.
QED

I think you misunderstood, I was looking for a rationale forged with reason and logic, not one based upon invalid premises and faulty conclusions.

‘are necros op?’ ‘nope, they’re countered by warriors’

Have you thought about the class that needs it the most: thief ?
You think this is an important issue compared to all the rest ?
Your talking about a godkitten “unbalanced” rune while other things are much more unbalanced…
I’d say first fix broken weaponsets, useless elites, useless/bad designed traits, condi/immob/spam meta, OP builds and then you could tackle the runes to fit the meta better.
Currently lyssa fits the meta very well… So leave it be and

Smiley.5376:

Have you thought about the class that needs it the most: thief ?
You think this is an important issue compared to all the rest ?
Your talking about a godkitten “unbalanced” rune while other things are much more unbalanced…
I’d say first fix broken weaponsets, useless elites, useless/bad designed traits, condi/immob/spam meta, OP builds and then you could tackle the runes to fit the meta better.
Currently lyssa fits the meta very well… So leave it be and

That’s not how balance works. There are 1000 threads out there with all the things that need tweaks. You don’t leave OP stuff OP because other stuff is OP. Anything overbudgeted and powerful deserves a mention. Yes Thieves need help defensively (outside of evade/stealth spammers), yes other things need fixed, yes other stuff needs nerfed, but that doesn’t make it right.

The only class that really needs it is thief. Thief is such in a kittenty state, if you remove this they’ll be even more useless. Warrior won’t be less OP without lyssa. Other classes that lose/use this you don’t even notice it… So it’s not really OP…

What i’m saying is, your making such a thing of it while it completely isn’t. This is the perfect QQ thread example that will get Anet’s attention and they will simply do 1 thing: make the game even worse for thieves.

Smiley.5376:

The only class that really needs it is thief. Thief is such in a kittenty state, if you remove this they’ll be even more useless. Warrior won’t be less OP without lyssa. Other classes that lose/use this you don’t even notice it… So it’s not really OP…

What i’m saying is, your making such a thing of it while it completely isn’t. This is the perfect QQ thread example that will get Anet’s attention and they will simply do 1 thing: make the game even worse for thieves.

Please try to view the game in an objective balance instead of only thinking of one class.

You have clearly misread my post… It will only affect 1 class: thief. And it will simply bury them deeper in their hole. Noone else will truly notice the difference. So i might be mentionning that one class will be affected, this doesn’t mean i havn’t thought about the game as a whole.

The point is, this single rune is only very usefull for 1 class, and it truly doesn’t bother other classes so why adress this “issue” while it even isn’t a real gamebreaking issue ? There are much more serious balance issues to talk about.

Its most OP on Warrior actually. Dolyak+Balance stance + Zerker stance + Lyssa runes make for a very frustrating chain of basically anti-everything.

ronpierce.2760:

That’s not how balance works. There are 1000 threads out there with all the things that need tweaks. You don’t leave OP stuff OP because other stuff is OP. Anything overbudgeted and powerful deserves a mention. Yes Thieves need help defensively (outside of evade/stealth spammers), yes other things need fixed, yes other stuff needs nerfed, but that doesn’t make it right.

Actually, yes. I don’t see anything wrong with leaving some OP stuff as long as it’s balanced. Relentlessly hunting every single “op” feature or skill or item in a game always ends up with something bland where every choice feels the same. Take a look at DotA with it’s many many ultra OP heroes in some fashion. Yet if a hero is OP in something, he’s always weak somewhere else. All that creates variety and flavor and is good.

Lyssa #1 Elite
Wait.. Basi Venom? Isn’t that the additional ministun that comes with it?

Thedenofsin.7340:

I think you misunderstood, I was looking for a rationale forged with reason and logic, not one based upon invalid premises and faulty conclusions.

You seem to be at ease bandying about far flung phrases… but do you actually know what you’re saying?

So, the end goal of every and any tweak to a game is not ‘more engaging gameplay’?
And it doesn’t make sense that something that lessens something that is hurting the game… well, that gives help.

Sure you have to take in the downsides of it too (spike dps with lyssa, the extra boons tend to give them a pretty safe few seconds of spike/burst) but that is an extremely minor issue compared to the one badly setup cleansing makes of conditions…
Lyssa shores it up a lil… easily a wash if not net gain.

I’d really prefer if lyssa just removed conditions in all honesty. The boons aren’t needed and are way too powerful.

I would prefer if they just nerfed it.
Btw i kill those lyssa thieves easy and i also know how to kite for 5 seconds.