Guild Wars 2

The mesmers polymorph seems a bit ridiculous.

For 10 seconds your tranformed into a moa who has a set of skills that will do nothing for you.

Basically it serves as a 10 second Daze.

Is this balanced?

I honestly dont think so. I’m fine with the ability having 10 seconds on npc’s but when it comes to pvp the duration of the ability is far to long. There is no countering the ability unless you are able to dodge the mesmers cast or gain aegis in time. Once hit by the ability its a guaranteed death as long as the team fighting you isnt completely horrible at pvp.

Imo i think this ability needs its duration to be cut in half. 5 seconds is still a long time to disable a players abilities but it would be short enough to give players a chance to bounce back in a fight after it expires.

What? How about we talk about nerfing real elites like Crate?

infantrydiv.1620:

What? How about we talk about nerfing real elites like Crate?

Supply crate just got nerfed last update when turrets were allowed to receive critical hits.

infantrydiv.1620:

What? How about we talk about nerfing real elites like Crate?

Because this isnt a thread about all the elite abilities. If you want to discuss balancing on other abilities then go make a new thread.

I created this thread to look at one ability, polymorph, and its obvious issue and simple solution to fixing it.

It took me a minute to get over this skill.

The best use of this skill is in a team fight where you successfully eliminate a person from the fight. They might run off but in a 3v3, if you take it down to 3v2 that long its pretty much over.

Those who use it in 1v1’s and anything less but outnumbered or equal team fights, well they are just not the best mesmer.

It has a long CD so they need to make it count. If someone moas me at the wrong time I just laugh at the fact that I made them have to use it then instead of in its optimal situation.

As a thief, I generally pull that skill out of those who do carry it very often.

xDudisx.5914:

infantrydiv.1620:

What? How about we talk about nerfing real elites like Crate?

Supply crate just got nerfed last update when turrets were allowed to receive critical hits.

That’s actually true, haven’t played much since that nerf.

i think it is ok for long CD elite
i main thief, i don’t really have much HP nor enough dodges (only 2) yet i survived most moas so far
… i actually killed some enemies while being in moa few times o.o

just try to repostion yourself, LOS, dodge, use skill 5? to run away

nightblood.7910:

It took me a minute to get over this skill.

The best use of this skill is in a team fight where you successfully eliminate a person from the fight. They might run off but in a 3v3, if you take it down to 3v2 that long its pretty much over.

Those who use it in 1v1’s and anything less but outnumbered or equal team fights, well they are just not the best mesmer.

It has a long CD so they need to make it count. If someone moas me at the wrong time I just laugh at the fact that I made them have to use it then instead of in its optimal situation.

The cd still doesnt justify its prolonged duration. Every other class has elite skills with 180 second cd but every other class’s elite abilities still allow the other player to counter or avoid them. Polymorph disables your abilities for 10 seconds and gives you no way of deactivating it. Something with that much duration needs a possible way to escape such as entangle on the ranger (melee the vines to escape) or it just needs its duration to be shortened.

Cynz.9437:

i think’t it is ok for long CD elite
i main thief, i don’t really have much HP nor enough dodges (only 2) yet i survived most moas so far
… i actually killed some enemies while being in moa few times o.o

just try to repostion yourself, LOS, dodge, use skill 5? to run away

This only applies to bad pvpers though. If a skilled team or a skilled mesmer morphs you, they can easily down you and prevent you from being able to escape with use of gap closers.

States.6387:

Cynz.9437:

i think’t it is ok for long CD elite
i main thief, i don’t really have much HP nor enough dodges (only 2) yet i survived most moas so far
… i actually killed some enemies while being in moa few times o.o

just try to repostion yourself, LOS, dodge, use skill 5? to run away

This only applies to bad pvpers though. If a skilled team or a skilled mesmer morphs you, they can easily down you and prevent you from being able to escape with use of gap closers.

that can happen with about any elite really… engi drops crate or lich hits you (through the wall too because logic)

even if you do get downed you still have team to support you, if you did die you can still rotate somewhere…. there are far worse things than long CD polymorph, imo

P.S. can’t believe i am actually defending mesmers…. never saw that comming

States.6387:

nightblood.7910:

It took me a minute to get over this skill.

The best use of this skill is in a team fight where you successfully eliminate a person from the fight. They might run off but in a 3v3, if you take it down to 3v2 that long its pretty much over.

Those who use it in 1v1’s and anything less but outnumbered or equal team fights, well they are just not the best mesmer.

It has a long CD so they need to make it count. If someone moas me at the wrong time I just laugh at the fact that I made them have to use it then instead of in its optimal situation.

The cd still doesnt justify its prolonged duration. Every other class has elite skills with 180 second cd but every other class’s elite abilities still allow the other player to counter or avoid them. Polymorph disables your abilities for 10 seconds and gives you no way of deactivating it. Something with that much duration needs a possible way to escape such as entangle on the ranger (melee the vines to escape) or it just needs its duration to be shortened.

Well honestly, I just dont see it as much of a problem personally. It can be dodged and blocked. It makes we wonder how many times its actually been wasted on someone with aegis.

People (including myself in the past) come to these forums because they got defeated and they felt there is nothing they could do to counter it. So, that skill/build/class is OP.

Once you accept that at some point you will be defeated (as painful as it is in a 1v1 situation), then you start to learn the counter to being defeated which is proper rotation.

In other words, youre going to get up before that thing comes off CD.

Now if this game were once you were defeated you could not respawn, well now I would be screaming to the high hills about these skills.

When moa’d you generally have 2 options: 1. run; 2. fight. It depends on the situation. You’d be surprised how many mesmers you can take down in moa form. You’re not as helpless as you think.

As others have mentioned, the skill has an obvious tell and can be blocked, blinded, and interrupted. Plus, it’s long cooldown makes it s a risky choice for mesmers. It’s not a great skill. It used to be played a lot less until Time Warp was nerfed. Now it probably sees equal play with mass invisibility. Once the chronomancer comes out, I think most mesmers will choose the elite well over it.

You know what is better then MOA ??!! 5 MOAS get ready to that kitten!!!

Yes. It is well-balanced.

It actually feels like a real elite, in this game there are elites that feel “elite” polymorph, lich form, rampage, elites that can be game changing if used right, even battle standard would fit this category and they have long cooldowns. The problem is that they are not op, problem is the other elites need a buff.

The minions…..

A dodge or a blind negates this elite. The duration is will justified as it has a clear cast animation and cast time so learn to dodge or time your blind just right.

Cynz.9437:

States.6387:

Cynz.9437:

i think’t it is ok for long CD elite
i main thief, i don’t really have much HP nor enough dodges (only 2) yet i survived most moas so far
… i actually killed some enemies while being in moa few times o.o

just try to repostion yourself, LOS, dodge, use skill 5? to run away

This only applies to bad pvpers though. If a skilled team or a skilled mesmer morphs you, they can easily down you and prevent you from being able to escape with use of gap closers.

that can happen with about any elite really… engi drops crate or lich hits you (through the wall too because logic)

even if you do get downed you still have team to support you, if you did die you can still rotate somewhere…. there are far worse things than long CD polymorph, imo

P.S. can’t believe i am actually defending mesmers…. never saw that comming

Mostly this; if a coordinated team wants you dead, then it can be done without Moa

Heck, I would argue that immobilize > Moa, considering you can still flee when being Moa’d… Immob when people are going in for the kill means certain death unless you can somehow mitigate all the instantanious damage (and this is where Vamp Runes come into play)

Moa’s fine

Most of the time I use Moa for it being an “anti-elite” actually.

With how many Necros and Warriors spam Rampage and Lich these days, being able to deny them such powerful capabilities is quite a boon alone or in a teamfight. Their 3 minute elite for your 3 minute elite. Sounds fair.

You are giving up a personal/team escape option with a shorter CD or a team fight speed buff option over a single target denial, longer CD which has many counters.

I’ve personally never liked what Moa brings to the game. With it being able to be reset with chronomancer it could get really frustrating to play against and far too powerful.

If you dodge the attack, it goes on full cooldown with no negative effect.
If the mesmer is blinded when he uses it, it goes on cooldown with no negative effect.
If you block the attack, it goes on cooldown with no negative effect.
If you have stability, it goes on cooldown with no negative effect.

It is single target, and even if you fail to avoid the attack you can 9/10 times escape getting hurt too badly by using dodges and flee.

Dodge roll, wait a second, Dodge Roll, wait a second, Flee, wait a second, Dodge Roll, wait a few seconds, moa morph is over.

You can almost evade the entire time you are in moa form.

I believe the Mesmer NPC can transform you into one in HotM.

The Mesmer will point at you and pink partials will surroud the finger, there is an unmistakable audio que as well. Your best bet is to simply dodge. However they can do this from stealth, most Mesmers taking Moa will only have 1-2 stealths if thats the case. (Decoy and Torch, if Torch is taken.) So this isn’t always possible.

If you do get Moa’d like others said, you can run or evade but the kit for Moa has a few tricks.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Polymorph_Moa

Do not bother trying to fight a Mesmer with Mantra Of Distraction as a Moa.
Do not bother fighting if you aren’t Zerker/Max power at least.

The combo is Screech (Weakness, less threat from the Mesmer.) Kick, (cripples) and Peck. Peck’s first hit deals good damage, but if you land the whole thing they need to back off. If you see three clones up hit five. Nine times out of ten Mesmers using Moa in a 1v1 think they’ve won. And will not think twice about the Mind Wrack. Hence the extended evade on the 5 being so useful.

Alternately, in a teamfight scenario call target on the Mesmer and tell the Thief (you WILL have a thief on your team even if you PuG) to kill it. Have a teammate peel, heal you, be ready to rez, ect.

Moa is the biggest threat to Bunkers, MM, Lich and Rampage. If you aren’t running these you should be fine.

States.6387:

This only applies to bad pvpers though. If a skilled team or a skilled mesmer morphs you, they can easily down you and prevent you from being able to escape with use of gap closers.

That applies to the entire game, no diminishing returns / immunity on CC + no healers means focusing someone down who you can perma immobilize/stun/daze/chill etc in this game, especially certain classes, does not take much skill. Which I guess is one of the reasons they seem so adverse to making modes higher than 5v5 and where players aren’t split into smaller fights to some degree through objectives.

It has a long casting animation and like already said it is easily avoidable and goes on a big cooldown. Also it is not a “daze” because if dazed you cant attack. As a Moa you still have skills and attacks. i oce got beaten by a Moa since i was low health and i even beat someone as Moa.

Phantaram.4816:

I’ve personally never liked what Moa brings to the game. With it being able to be reset with chronomancer it could get really frustrating to play against and far too powerful.

3v3 – Moa one player, reset, Moa other player = 3v1

This is going to be huge.