Guild Wars 2

For the love of God.

I gave feedback to remove the poison. They decided to remove a bleed for the december patch but went back on it based on feedback. I think nerfing the poison would make it a balanced skill.

I think the weakness should see its duration reduced as well. 10s weakness is so preposterous if you can’t cleanse it…

How about shaving the passive power by 8%, seems fair to me.

PS- Dhuumfire is already getting a substantial nerf and Necros haven’t been a big problem in sPvP for months now.

Speak for yourself, if I get spited on my ele or my engi, I’m dead.

they should just rename it into signet of skill – then ill be fine with it

The only nerf it could use is reducing the range, down to 900 or even 600.

It’s just a really good cover condi skill. On it’s own, without the burning or the fear, it’s really bad.

Spite kills glass, if they don’t dodge, miss the huge animation or are too busy pressing #2

iow. don’t go glass and complain about getting killed, that’s the risk you take when you want to down someone in 2 hits.

Only bad necros who cant win a 1v1 use it. The 3rd utility is normaly a 2nd stunbreak or a life force utility.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Spite kills glass, if they don’t dodge, miss the huge animation or are too busy pressing #2

iow. don’t go glass and complain about getting killed, that’s the risk you take when you want to down someone in 2 hits.

How do you dodge a 3/4s cast?…xD besides, that’s an issue on my condition engineer. 10s weakness, if you can’t cleanse it, means you will never dodge ever again.

Signet of skill separates the good from the bad.
It’s undervalued really.

Weakness duration should be reduced. That or poison so that it doesn’t have both extreme defence and offence.

longer casting time so we can see animation will be perfect

It’s fine the way it is. It has an obvious casting animation, and you can tell if a necro is running with Signet of Spite.

no it is not fine,that strong skill need longer cast animation

Thedenofsin.7340:

It’s fine the way it is. It has an obvious casting animation, and you can tell if a necro is running with Signet of Spite.

It’s obvious, yes. The only issue is that it takes 3/4s to cast so by the time you see the obvious animation, you are already spited OR you just had a lucky dodge.

→ Not fine

It’s kind of underpowered.

The condi builds that use it see no use for the passive and it has a long cooldown, long cast, short duration, and obvious animation.

It doesn’t do all that much damage, and that damage was nerfed.

Basically, Necromancer’s use it to set up a burst from a teammate or their own burst. It’s good at that limited role. It’s also a good idea to have bursty builds other than theifs in the game.

nekretaal.6485:

It’s kind of underpowered.

The condi builds that use it see no use for the passive and it has a long cooldown, long cast, short duration, and obvious animation.

It doesn’t do all that much damage, and that damage was nerfed.

Basically, Necromancer’s use it to set up a burst from a teammate or their own burst. It’s good at that limited role. It’s also a good idea to have bursty builds other than theifs in the game.

Is this a troll? 3/4s is a long cast? obvious animation with a short cast is useless btw. It’s just nice because you know who spited you, other than that the animation serves no purpose.

It doesn’t do that much damage but unless the opponent has a LOT of condition removals, he’s dead because he can’t cleanse the damaging conditions hiding below cripple (which also prevents you from getting away), weakness (the opponent does no damage if power spec and can’t dodge anymore), poison( your heal sucks) and a few others. Anyone that can’t run lyssa due to having elites with long CDs is dead.

It’s good independently of circumstances.

edit : if you’re looking for long casts :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Longer casting time will be a bad solution, the signet has a long refresh time and is dodged or blocked pretty often. Reducing passive power to 8% will make the skill useless I think. If it bothers that much, remove the poison.

Thedenofsin.7340:

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Funny because I still don’t know what the actual cast looks like.

That’s half the problem with condition builds. None of their attacks are properly animated or telegraphed.

1 second cast time will be perfect u still can set it up with fears and teammates.Nerfing condies on signet will be a lot worse imo

What a stupid request. You do realize it’s a signet with an absolutely worthless passive to condi specs, and an absolutely worthless active on a power necro.

On a 60 sec cd.

If you’re gonna nerf Signet of Spite you better take a sledgehammer to warrior stances, thief shadow refuge and shadowstep (which are also broken overbudget), and plain retool engineer cc skills which are on much lower cd.

Uhtameit.2413:

How do you dodge a 3/4s cast?…xD besides, that’s an issue on my condition engineer. 10s weakness, if you can’t cleanse it, means you will never dodge ever again.

Dude I get my DS3 fears and my Corrupt Boons dodged regularly and those are instant cast! Practice. It’s not easy but if you do it enough times it becomes automatic. Use auditory queues – if you stop hearing the scepter autoattack “swish” that means the necro is casting something else which is worth dodging. Watch for the huge SoS animation over the necro’s head. Make one and go into the mists and cast it a few times if you’re not sure what it looks like.
Also, it’s easy to know when the necro is going to use it. If you’re low and he’s got a lot of bleeds on you, SoS makes for a great cover condi, so watch out for it. If you’ve just used all your cleanses, and the necro knows it, that’s also a good time. If you have stability a necro might try to use Corrupt Boon on it to draw out your big stunbreak and cleanse, and then use SoS once you’re on cooldown.

But seriously, most people use corrupt boon+2 stunbreaks, so I’m surprised you’re running into it so frequently.

As to SoS being OP, I agree that the durations on some of those conditions could use a reduction. 10" of weakness covered 6x over is beyond ridiculous. Reduce to at least 8". But it’s not nearly as good as you think: if you lead off with it before drawing out the enemy’s cleanses it’s pretty useless, barely more than an inconvenience. It’s a clutch move used to ensure a kill, and you only have 1 chance to use it and make sure it lands. So I wouldn’t want to see it nerfed to the ground: it’s a skill that requires skilled play to be effective and with the amount of passive skills and automatic immunities running around in the meta right now skilled play is much needed.

It probably will but if healing signet and pistol whip didn’t get shaved then there would be no need to shave this. Also weakness is like protection for a condi necro.

Dee Jay.2460:

Thedenofsin.7340:

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Funny because I still don’t know what the actual cast looks like.

That’s half the problem with condition builds. None of their attacks are properly animated or telegraphed.

The necromancer will point at you, I find it very easy to avoid unless I am immobilized or knockdowned..

manveruppd.7601:

Use auditory queues – if you stop hearing the scepter autoattack “swish” that means the necro is casting something else which is worth dodging.

xD come on, I had better look for the animation than trying to listen for him stopping AA for 0.5s

manveruppd.7601:

Watch for the huge SoS animation over the necro’s head. Make one and go into the mists and cast it a few times if you’re not sure what it looks like.

I definitely know what it looks like, but any decent necro will use it when I’m feared, so I can’t dodge it regardless ^^.

manveruppd.7601:

Also, it’s easy to know when the necro is going to use it. If you’re low and he’s got a lot of bleeds on you, SoS makes for a great cover condi, so watch out for it. If you’ve just used all your cleanses, and the necro knows it, that’s also a good time. If you have stability a necro might try to use Corrupt Boon on it to draw out your big stunbreak and cleanse, and then use SoS once you’re on cooldown.

Not necessarily, when playing an engi the necro won’t bother plannifying it since I have kittenty cleanse he can put it whenever he feels like it.

manveruppd.7601:

But seriously, most people use corrupt boon+2 stunbreaks, so I’m surprised you’re running into it so frequently.

Quite a few necros enjoy the 1 key win against engi and ele without ether renewal (not that ER would necessarily save you since it can be interrupted but at least you have a chance to cleanse SoS then).

manveruppd.7601:

So I wouldn’t want to see it nerfed to the ground: it’s a skill that requires skilled play to be effective and with the amount of passive skills and automatic immunities running around in the meta right now skilled play is much needed.

I don’t want that either, but a little shave would be nice.

manveruppd.7601:

Uhtameit.2413:

How do you dodge a 3/4s cast?…xD besides, that’s an issue on my condition engineer. 10s weakness, if you can’t cleanse it, means you will never dodge ever again.

Dude I get my DS3 fears and my Corrupt Boons dodged regularly and those are instant cast! Practice. It’s not easy but if you do it enough times it becomes automatic.

thats right, all you noobs should l2dodge that insta cast

Uhtameit.2413:

xD come on, I had better look for the animation than trying to listen for him stopping AA for 0.5s

Of course, but you might not see it if it’s a group fight with lots of effects around, that’s why I suggested it

I definitely know what it looks like, but any decent necro will use it when I’m feared, so I can’t dodge it regardless ^^.

Yep, and hence dodge immediately after using a stunbreaker, as you know he’ll either SoS or try and chain another fear (or both).

Not necessarily, when playing an engi the necro won’t bother plannifying it since I have kittenty cleanse he can put it whenever he feels like it.

Actually it’s ESPECIALLY important to plan it when playing against an engi because you want to land it when the engi is _just_above_ 25% health, so the conditions persist after Automated Response kicks in.
Anyway, you have Elixir C which is a pretty good cleanse, but I haven’t seen any engineer use it in MONTHS because they all rely on AR, Elixir S, and blasting their water fields for massive heals. I know you only have 3 slots and lots of cool utilities, but it’s all a trade-off right? If you’re having a serious problem against condi enemies maybe you should swap it in

Simon.3794:

thats right, all you noobs should l2dodge that insta cast

You mean you can’t?

Kraljevo.2801:

Dee Jay.2460:

Thedenofsin.7340:

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Funny because I still don’t know what the actual cast looks like.

That’s half the problem with condition builds. None of their attacks are properly animated or telegraphed.

The necromancer will point at you, I find it very easy to avoid unless I am immobilized or knockdowned..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

It’s the same animation as the Staff auto attack. Now that’s some good tell! Anyway, no Necro cast it when the target can easily dodge. They generally do it when you are either immobilized, feared or stunned by the golem…

Kraljevo.2801:

Dee Jay.2460:

Thedenofsin.7340:

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Funny because I still don’t know what the actual cast looks like.

That’s half the problem with condition builds. None of their attacks are properly animated or telegraphed.

The necromancer will point at you, I find it very easy to avoid unless I am immobilized or knockdowned..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

That video is helpful but it’s still not a well telegraphed skill. Good luck seeing and reacting to such a skill in a team-fight with all the effects going off.

Imo it should have some sort of projectile at least, something you can actively dodge. The Signet effect alone isn’t enough.

manveruppd.7601:

Actually it’s ESPECIALLY important to plan it when playing against an engi because you want to land it when the engi is _just_above_ 25% health, so the conditions persist after Automated Response kicks in.

Most good engineers don’t have room for that trait which is pretty much useless now anyway. I never use it, so my point stands : they don’t have to plan anything at all. Hell, they could even put it when I’m 70% since I won’t be able to cleanse the bleeds.

manveruppd.7601:

Anyway, you have Elixir C which is a pretty good cleanse, but I haven’t seen any engineer use it in MONTHS because they all rely on AR, Elixir S, and blasting their water fields for massive heals. I know you only have 3 slots and lots of cool utilities, but it’s all a trade-off right? If you’re having a serious problem against condi enemies maybe you should swap it in

Allow me to explain : engineer is poorly designed. You need at the very least one kit to do damage. Let’s pick grenade kit. You then probably ought to take a stun breaker (against, most good engineers don’t) : let’s take the least worse, Elixir S. And then you have room for another kit (like ToolKit to get a gap closer, a very good block, or BombKit which is fabulous in team fights) or…elixir C, that isn’t even a stun breaker.

So yeah, you’re immune to conditions for 5s (every 40s which is decent) but in exchange you will have far less team utility and that skill will be useless against direct damage opponents(unlike, you know, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Contemplation_of_Purity which is 48s CD and a stun breaker and 2k heal once traited). Not to mention that after that cleanse, you still only remove 2 condi per 15s so there’s room to condi burst you during those 40s CD. All in all, being able to blast fields and to heal well is nice but not a solution while Elixir C is nice but you have to give up damage or team utility or survivability (ToolKit/EG for instance). For most good engineers, that would mean giving up on stun breakers and then if you get perma cc, when will you use your elixir C?… that’s not exactly a solution imo.
Engineer just need more cleanse, aside from elixir C there is almost nothing :
Heal Turret : 2conditions per 15s
Elixir Spec : -1 condition per elixir used (you need elixirs, so less damage)
Elixir Gun AoE : -1 condition + combo field so you can spam projectiles in it
Elixir R AoE : -1 condition per X second in it
AR : not a cleanse, you will die to preapplied conditions

Since you need to stands in the AoEs it’s kind of meh, plus you’ll want to save Elixir R throw for a res…and that’s it. There’s nothing else. You can’t have damage and decent cleanse (let’s not mention stun breakers..).

manveruppd.7601:

Simon.3794:

thats right, all you noobs should l2dodge that insta cast

You mean you can’t?

Dodging the fear sounds extremely difficult to do. Sure it can happen but luck is involved on a few levels.

Asomal.6453:

Kraljevo.2801:

Dee Jay.2460:

Thedenofsin.7340:

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Funny because I still don’t know what the actual cast looks like.

That’s half the problem with condition builds. None of their attacks are properly animated or telegraphed.

The necromancer will point at you, I find it very easy to avoid unless I am immobilized or knockdowned..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

It’s the same animation as the Staff auto attack. Now that’s some good tell! Anyway, no Necro cast it when the target can easily dodge. They generally do it when you are either immobilized, feared or stunned by the golem…

It is not the same as staff autoattack, as demonstrated by the giant animation over the Necromancer’s head.

Chaining SoS with a fear or knockdown is just good gameplay.

Signet of spite is GW2’s “I win” button. It’s like Unleash the hounds in hearthstone (aka unleash the skill)

This kind of things shouldnt exist in any game. Imagine anet implemented dueling…

Duel starts.
Necro signet of spites
> repeat

manveruppd.7601:

You mean you can’t?

ofc i can, i mean, rng yolo right?

Asomal.6453:

Kraljevo.2801:

Dee Jay.2460:

Thedenofsin.7340:

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Funny because I still don’t know what the actual cast looks like.

That’s half the problem with condition builds. None of their attacks are properly animated or telegraphed.

The necromancer will point at you, I find it very easy to avoid unless I am immobilized or knockdowned..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

It’s the same animation as the Staff auto attack. Now that’s some good tell! Anyway, no Necro cast it when the target can easily dodge. They generally do it when you are either immobilized, feared or stunned by the golem…

You won’t believe me how many necro’s I’ve faced in tpvp using the skill on first sight… only the more skilled ones (aka the people with an actual brain) will cc you before using the signet.

Kraljevo.2801:

Asomal.6453:

Kraljevo.2801:

Dee Jay.2460:

Thedenofsin.7340:

.75 seconds is plenty of time to react and avoid Signet of Spite.

Funny because I still don’t know what the actual cast looks like.

That’s half the problem with condition builds. None of their attacks are properly animated or telegraphed.

The necromancer will point at you, I find it very easy to avoid unless I am immobilized or knockdowned..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

It’s the same animation as the Staff auto attack. Now that’s some good tell! Anyway, no Necro cast it when the target can easily dodge. They generally do it when you are either immobilized, feared or stunned by the golem…

You won’t believe me how many necro’s I’ve faced in tpvp using the skill on first sight… only the more skilled ones (aka the people with an actual brain) will cc you before using the signet.

anyone with a tiny bit of knowledge in pvp will cc you before using the signet. only the noobiest use it on sight.

What are you all whining about, SoS is not OP, its easily interrupted – you can see the animation and dodge it, if a Necromancer hits you with it great!

If I were a wizard and had absolute power over ANet I would probably just knock down the durations on everything but the bleeds to 5 seconds and call it a day. 10 second durations get crazy when you have +condi duration.

Just generally speaking; a skill which applies 6 conditions with that cast time should not demand a condi clear. Should be able to wait them out and not die horribly.

Maybe drop the CD to compensate.

A good skill doesn’t mean te same as an overpowered skill. Warrior hammer skills and thief’s invisibility are far more out of line than SoS.

HeadCrowned.6834:

A good skill doesn’t mean te same as an overpowered skill. Warrior hammer skills and thief’s invisibility are far more out of line than SoS.

Thief stealth OP. Plz nerf.

Uhtameit.2413:

Allow me to explain : engineer is poorly designed. You need at the very least one kit to do damage. Let’s pick grenade kit. You then probably ought to take a stun breaker (against, most good engineers don’t) : let’s take the least worse, Elixir S. And then you have room for another kit (like ToolKit to get a gap closer, a very good block, or BombKit which is fabulous in team fights) or…elixir C, that isn’t even a stun breaker.

I completely agree with you: engi’s weapon skills don’t do nearly enough damage, and as such they need to take kits in their weapon slots, and thus they don’t have room for cleanses etc. In fact, engis have probably the worst cleansing capacity in the game except for rangers. But how do you deal with this? Do you:
a. nerf SoS to the extent that engis and rangers can deal with it, and thereby make it completely useless against everyone else? Or
b. up engi’s weapon damage and give them more cleanses via traits (so they don’t take up utility slots)?
Personally I’d choose b. It’s bad design to balance against extremes. I do agree that SoS needs a shave, but the problems you’re having are mainly due to your class’s design and your build choices. Necromancers have similar design issues too you know. Virtually no stability, no vigour at all, no evades, no blocks, no invulnerabilities, and no ability to disengage from a fight not going their way. So yeah, by necessity I run with 2 stunbreakers (with corrupt boon as my third). You think I wouldn’t LOVE to carry Epidemic and Signet of Spite, which would be an utterly sick combo, or Spectral Wall? I do way less damage runnign with 2 stunbreaks but it’s a decision I made in response to the metagame, ie. the kinds of opponents I meet at my ranking. If you’re constantly running against SoS maybe you should do the same until either you stop meeting them or ANet fix engi or nerf SoS (or all 3). Then swap back to your current build.

Dodging the fear sounds extremely difficult to do. Sure it can happen but luck is involved on a few levels.

Actually I was just trying to be funny at Simon’s expense, but most people hit dodge as soon as they see me go into death shroud, assuming fear will follow a split second later

Dee Jay.2460:

That video is helpful but it’s still not a well telegraphed skill. Good luck seeing and reacting to such a skill in a team-fight with all the effects going off.

Come on, that decal is pretty huge! It’ll look better on your screen cause that guy has his HDR up so high it’s impossible to see the effect for the glow coming off it. They generally went overboard with particle effects in this game, and yeah, you still won’t be able to see it in team fights. Team fights in this game are an utter flustercuck and anyone who claims they can see what’s going on is lying. But that’s not an SoS problem.

Signet of Spite?

Surely you mean Signet of Win.

I find it quite funny that the problematic classes in this condition meta have been all but Necromancers. This is my opinion though.

SoS is a very decent skill but necro lacks other things to compensate. A thing that certain warriors do not have.

Wouldn’t mind losing SoS for a control utility/kd/immob/rupt/push/pull/blink etc..
would change it in a heartbeat.

still no resposne from develpoers,this skill need a little longer cast time i am satisfied with animation already