Guild Wars 2

Since there are no rewards, what is the incentive to coordinate a 5 man team vs other people, when you can just play YOLOQ instead?

Why try to schedule practice times etc. Most good teams/players have quit or disbanded.

For a game that is literally brand new, the player base for PvP is awful….

Discuss.

#esportslol

Divinity.8041:

Since there are no rewards, what is the incentive to coordinate a 5 man team vs other people, when you can just play YOLOQ instead?

Why try to schedule practice times etc. Most good teams/players have quit or disbanded.

For a game that is literally brand new, the player base for PvP is awful….

Discuss.

#esportslol

The game isn’t brand new…it’s over a year old. In terms of gaming it has already seen its best times. Six months to a year is where you see whether an MMO is going to be sustainable or not. I think we have our answer as it relates to GW2.

TPvP has never been alive…and will never be. Speaking for competitiveness – it’s still a enjoyable (PvP) game for casuals with some good game mechanics though, but not more than this.

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

Farmville.

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

LoL is esport

tPvP might not be as active as other elements of the game but i wouldn’t say it is dead. I know plenty of people who are in pre-made teams for tournaments. Some days seem to be quieter than others in regards to the amount of people tPvPing but as far as just YOLOQing goes, it can be very irritating getting people who don’t co-ordinate and pay attention. I find having a team is a lot more enjoyable and reliable.

yes, my friends went to wvw, pseudo quit, pretty bad.

I’m not a good pvp player,but when i see my name in the top 600+ on the official leaderboards for soloQ for a few months,then i can safely say its because there is not alot of players.Current MMR reset has made me around 500+ so its kinda consistent and soon i will drop back to 600 once it has stabilised.Pretty much proves to me that TPVP is as undead as Orr

lucykate.6920:

I know plenty of people who are in pre-made teams for tournaments.

Couple thousand players (760 for NA) is not plenty for an AAA-game.

Destiny.6738:

TPvP has never been alive…and will never be. Speaking for competitiveness – it’s still a enjoyable (PvP) game for casuals with some good game mechanics though, but not more than this.

aye, the pvp is good casual fun.

kinda sad for the competitive scene though.

Shadow of Azrael.1205:

lucykate.6920:

I know plenty of people who are in pre-made teams for tournaments.

Couple thousand players (760 for NA) is not plenty for an AAA-game.

For the size of the game i guess its not much in comparison but i still think there are enough players to make it enjoyable and worth searching for a team. I still don’t think its ‘dead’, that would imply that there aren’t enough people to warrant doing it. But i do get your point

What I am saying is this, I used to and loved playing Diablo 2. The PVP population of this game, which is 1 year old, is just slightly better than that game at the moment IMO. Diablo 2 is about to be 14 years old…

It is sad, when you join pubs (hotjoins) and see the same people all the time. I can do that in Diablo 2, but it is a 14 year old game and is understandable.

Is GW2 already dead in that sense?

Pyriall.5027:

Divinity.8041:

Since there are no rewards, what is the incentive to coordinate a 5 man team vs other people, when you can just play YOLOQ instead?

Why try to schedule practice times etc. Most good teams/players have quit or disbanded.

For a game that is literally brand new, the player base for PvP is awful….

Discuss.

#esportslol

The game isn’t brand new…it’s over a year old. In terms of gaming it has already seen its best times. Six months to a year is where you see whether an MMO is going to be sustainable or not. I think we have our answer as it relates to GW2.

It took WoW at least 3-4 years to take off with Arena.

Divinity.8041:

What I am saying is this, I used to and loved playing Diablo 2. The PVP population of this game, which is 1 year old, is just slightly better than that game at the moment IMO. Diablo 2 is about to be 14 years old…

It is sad, when you join pubs (hotjoins) and see the same people all the time. I can do that in Diablo 2, but it is a 14 year old game and is understandable.

Is GW2 already dead in that sense?

overall sPvP population count for active sPvP players seems very low at the moment.

they just need to do something to attract the WvW / PvE players over to sPvP. still got lots of players over there.

They’ve stated many times before that they’ll be showing what kind of reward systems they’re going to implement this December which is a arms reach away. Why are you still QQ’ing? Just lost a tPvP game i’m assuming.

Cynz.9437:

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

LoL is esport

it is, but is it good pvp?

Rubik.7192:

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

Farmville.

still haven’t heard any names.

gesho.9468:

Cynz.9437:

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

LoL is esport

it is, but is it good pvp?

yep and it has great infrastructure.

tichorum.2415:

Pyriall.5027:

The game isn’t brand new…it’s over a year old. In terms of gaming it has already seen its best times. Six months to a year is where you see whether an MMO is going to be sustainable or not. I think we have our answer as it relates to GW2.

It took WoW at least 3-4 years to take off with Arena.

In terms of sustainability: look at pve and wvw, so GW2 is unlikely to die out from an unsuccessful pvp scene.

The WoW analogy is actually pretty good.
GW2 still needs rewards and different gamemodes for PvP to become a good integrated part of the game. Once these are in and the community or Anet decide to push the competitive side (again) with cash rewards it might get a 2nd wind. Until then it’s wait and see or casually enjoy pvp.
But don’t take this as a “if we get to point x, it’ll be esports”…

gesho.9468:

Cynz.9437:

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

LoL is esport

it is, but is it good pvp?

Rubik.7192:

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

Farmville.

still haven’t heard any names.

guild wars 1?

Inverted.7439:

They’ve stated many times before that they’ll be showing what kind of reward systems they’re going to implement this December which is a arms reach away. Why are you still QQ’ing? Just lost a tPvP game i’m assuming.

Still QQing? From what? This game is terrible, and everyone admits it. It just surprises me that it took so long to produce not even the bare minimum yet. It is like calling WSG/AB/EOTS in WoW “esports.” Are you kidding?

No, I just mean this in general, I don’t play either solo or tpvp right now until it gets fixed, but I am about to leave the game because there is just nobody left to play with.

Inverted.7439:

They’ve stated many times before that they’ll be showing what kind of reward systems they’re going to implement this December which is a arms reach away. Why are you still QQ’ing? Just lost a tPvP game i’m assuming.

Rewards are fine for pve players that want to do something different for a while, but it is wrong direction (again). True PvP players don’t especially care about rewards, I mean it is nice, but it is not primary concern. People haven’t left gw2 pvp because it’s not rewarding, they left because it wasn’t fun.

No Milo your are wrong. Most people left because its not rewarding, no incentives and no targets to go for.
Just be in a leaderbaord to be there is not enough and noone play just to play it because thats why it get boring ya know?

Romek.4201:

No Milo your are wrong. Most people left because its not rewarding, no incentives and no targets to go for.
Just be in a leaderbaord to be there is not enough and noone play just to play it because thats why it get boring ya know?

That is argument of pve grinder.

no you are wrong again

its just “HUMAN”

hm.

recognition matters. per game score boards to seasonal leader boards to account history statistics, thats human yea.

but fun gameplay matters more. especially to pvpers. it takes a special kind of person to neither care at all about recognition of any kind, or to care only about recognition and not about the fact their gameplay is awful.

enter the pve farmer and the pvp enthusiast.

…

most pve and pvp players are less than their extreems but… getting to the point, milo is right on this one, or at least more right

it has nothing to do with recognition

people need progress – thats all

in leage of legends you have progress in your account lvl and champions you can buy over the time and even in fight you have progress while lvling your champ and buy items from vendor

wow has progression with armory, archievements and so on and most people play arena, rated bg or even bg to get their gladiator armors every tier again

other games same – no game is just “playing”

and to get a healthy population in game you have to give incentives or somehow progress

we have in gw2 the ranking (wolve tiger ….) but this looks like its not enough cause people dont come to pvp or even care for it and we all know we lose a lot playerz and NO its not enough jsut to paly the game cause this we had a year now and no people came – people left

and wtf has this to do with pve?

Romek.4201:

it has nothing to do with recognition

people need progress – thats all

in leage of legends you have progress in your account lvl and champions you can buy over the time and even in fight you have progress while lvling your champ and buy items from vendor

wow has progression with armory, archievements and so on and most people play arena, rated bg or even bg to get their gladiator armors every tier again

other games same – no game is just “playing”

and to get a healthy population in game you have to give incentives or somehow progress

we have in gw2 the ranking (wolve tiger ….) but this looks like its not enough cause people dont come to pvp or even care for it and we all know we lose a lot playerz and NO its not enough jsut to paly the game cause this we had a year now and no people came – people left

and wtf has this to do with pve?

Progression is fine. It is not bad. But you can still have successful pvp game without rewards. GW1 (before zkeys) and many fps game are like this. It is fact. But here we do already have progression (even if not a great one), but population has tanked. Your logic is like a pve grinder that wants more and more rewards to feel like he is playing a good game. You are not a real pvper, so it is natural that your conclusions are that game needs more rewards.

I don’t think so!

The PvP rewards also have another side to it.
Sure hardcore pvp’ers don’t need rewards outside of maybe some titles and a high rank on some leaderboard, but everyone else, and especially players who mainly do pve, need incentive to try something out and stick with it.
Now by bringing in the pve/whatever crowd you won’t automatically get better pvp games but you will get a bigger community that now enjoys doing some pvp stuff and are still working on their character/wealth/whatever.
And by getting a wider playerbase you will get more attention towards pvp. This leads to more content beeing put out from devs and players alike, more interest in streams b/c people want to improve, more tourneys with prize pools and overall more competition in the long run. Even if balance is flawed a game can be competitive as long as it has a strong(big) community, e.g. WoW, LoL (both good games in their respective fields but also not rly balanced).
TLDR: Wishful thinking.

gesho.9468:

im not gaming pro, but which other pvp would you point superior to gw2?

Bloodline Champions.

Divinity.8041:

Since there are no rewards, what is the incentive to coordinate a 5 man team vs other people, when you can just play YOLOQ instead?

Why try to schedule practice times etc. Most good teams/players have quit or disbanded.

For a game that is literally brand new, the player base for PvP is awful….

Discuss.

#esportslol

WoW a very bold statement

I would like to forward you to 2 websites

1, esl.ee http://www.esl.eu/eu/guildwars2/cup/weekly3/

- Tournments for gw2, there you can find people looking for teams, also you can find weekly tournaments.
- You can win Gems and esl related stuffage.
- Playing solo queue is purely for chests and self development imho, also it is very good for meeting other players that are like minded and THEN forming a team.

2, www.twitch.tv/sireph – Check that site and ESL weekly cup #7
- Just because Paradigm, CC etc have left, DOESN’T mean their aren’t awesome teams out there.
- Take Cheese Mode last night, beating Denial Esports, one of the biggest gw2 spvp teams. Also Toilet papers some of car crash coming back having an epic match again Denial, same with 55 hp monks etc.

GW2 spvp is coming back with a vengence guys, time to get on that wagon, because its starting to roll out…

We have new casters new competitiions all the time, check out the PVP events forums theres normally a tournie in. GW2 is still new in terms of ‘Esports’. Let it grow let it get its niche.

milo.6942:

Progression is fine. It is not bad. But you can still have successful pvp game without rewards. GW1 (before zkeys) and many fps game are like this. It is fact. But here we do already have progression (even if not a great one), but population has tanked. Your logic is like a pve grinder that wants more and more rewards to feel like he is playing a good game. You are not a real pvper, so it is natural that your conclusions are that game needs more rewards.

GW1 was very rewarding, even before the zkeys. It had a great ladder system plus monthly tournaments. In my point of view, there can´t be anything more rewarding than a golden guildcape, showing everyone that you´re one of the best in this game. And because of the perfect system, no one denied it. There has been much respect for guilds like “The last pride”, “War machine” or “Esoteric Warriors”. Not like in GW2, where everybody blames the top players for playing “noob spam classes”, “abusing the system” or just “broken matchups”. But thats quite logical, if not even Anet rewards the topplayers in any form before they reset the ladder.

Ranks are a joke due to a braindead hotjoin mode and skyhammer farmers anyway, soloQ´s new MM is a better hotjoin, but a ladder just cant work if you mix good with bad players inside a team. It just breaks down to pure luck, whoever gets the worst newbie looses the game. Not competetive in any form…

tPvP is the only hope, but without any kind of reward, people will just get sick of playing 1000´s of hours rewarded with mockery from the community. Why the hell there´s no reward for them? The only thing broken about old tPvP MM was the lack of players.

So basically, in my point of view the most important thing is to reward PvP to attract more players. It would be perfect if you could earn a lil bit more than spending your time in PvE if you win a lot. Than so much more people would start playing PvP and learn to love it. But Anet purely focuses on PvE, scared of loosing their playerbase over there. So PvP will stay that edge appearance of GW2. It will never become a famous esport title, because it never had the chance to. The combatsystem and the game mode(without admitting there should be more) has everthing it needs to have to become large, but the whole periphery around it is some of the worst in gaming history. :-(

Mister Fluffkin, that is more accurately called recognition, or prestige, not rewards or progression. The person I responded to said:

Romek.4201:

it has nothing to do with recognition

people need progress – thats all

Rewards and prestige are 2 separate concepts. I was saying rewards are not necessary, but the problem is the game is not fun & does not promote skillful play. I do agree that gw2’s prestige currency (rank) is very very poorly thought out.

milo.6942:

Mister Fluffkin, that is more accurately called recognition, or prestige, not rewards or progression. The person I responded to said:

Romek.4201:

it has nothing to do with recognition

people need progress – thats all

Rewards and prestige are 2 separate concepts. I was saying rewards are not necessary, but the problem is the game is not fun & does not promote skillful play. I do agree that gw2’s prestige currency (rank) is very very poorly thought out.

Admit, you´re kinda right with this. And a pretty good point!

Maybe the real question is, if we need more prestige in PvP, not rewards?

games that have better pvp experiences than Gw2?
GW1, LoL, DOTA2, SWTOR, even RIFT…

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

milo.6942:

Mister Fluffkin, that is more accurately called recognition, or prestige, not rewards or progression. The person I responded to said:

Romek.4201:

it has nothing to do with recognition

people need progress – thats all

Rewards and prestige are 2 separate concepts. I was saying rewards are not necessary, but the problem is the game is not fun & does not promote skillful play. I do agree that gw2’s prestige currency (rank) is very very poorly thought out.

Admit, you´re kinda right with this. And a pretty good point!

Maybe the real question is, if we need more prestige in PvP, not rewards?

Yes.

• more reliable prestige (rank that is actually worth something)
• more information during fights (e.g. cast bar) and less random crap
• nerf the cheese from orbit with a nuclear cannon (and obviously split skills from pve—retain same functionality but adjust numbers.)

then you will have better foundation to build pvp and then we can talk about adding rewards for all the lost souls that temporarily pass through pvp area once they are bored of living story crap. however, the way things are going now, only the first thing is remotely, possibly coming, maybe.

The class balance is so bad that investing time in sPvP is practically pointless. Warriors, which used to be terrible, suddenly became the top of the food chain after one or two patches. Thieves are given a bunch of buffs, a few more nerfs, and then those buffed areas are nerfed later on. Rangers became insanely easy to play with the Spirit Ranger whereas, beforehand, they were practically useless. Guards have turned from a support class into a class that is virtually invincible unless a player uses a full zerker build, and even then, the zerker player is taking a huge risk against guards…

ANet doesn’t make changes the way it should. It uses revolution over evolution and, in doing so, ruins the game in another way every couple of months or so.

tPvP isn’t dead, but the overall PvP community certainly isn’t near what it used to be. Some of the biggest examples of this are:

- the disappearance of the Guru SotG
– dead forums on IntoTheMists.com
– near-dead PvP forums on GuildWars2Guru.com

Divinity.8041:

Inverted.7439:

They’ve stated many times before that they’ll be showing what kind of reward systems they’re going to implement this December which is a arms reach away. Why are you still QQ’ing? Just lost a tPvP game i’m assuming.

Still QQing? From what? This game is terrible, and everyone admits it. It just surprises me that it took so long to produce not even the bare minimum yet. It is like calling WSG/AB/EOTS in WoW “esports.” Are you kidding?

No, I just mean this in general, I don’t play either solo or tpvp right now until it gets fixed, but I am about to leave the game because there is just nobody left to play with.

^ Welcome to the Captain Star crew been on it since May…

and waited. and waited. and waited…

I personally stopped playing tpvp because there’s no point in playing it. No rewards, terrible progression system, and still haven’t fixed the 4v5. Doesn’t help that the meta game isn’t the best atm either. Yeah I know they are working it, and it takes a while since the pvp team is so small.

Whenever they fix it, I’ll start to play it again. As of right now I just do pvp for the daily and that’s it.

- Terrible balance, both class vs class and build vs build.
- Horrible targeting system and npc spam.
-No real rewards to make up for your time, this is part of GW2 you need some in-game rewards to make it feel like something.

Is it dead? Perhaps not, but if you keep playing pvp a bit you start dying inside. It is not a good sign if you go 1v1 and see other guy you just give up because you know there is absolutely no way you could win even if another guy would just spam #1.

It is doubtful those useless buffs and nerfs in next patch change gameplay in a good direction.

jalmari.3906:

- Terrible balance, both class vs class and build vs build.
- Horrible targeting system and npc spam.
-No real rewards to make up for your time, this is part of GW2 you need some in-game rewards to make it feel like something.

Is it dead? Perhaps not, but if you keep playing pvp a bit you start dying inside. It is not a good sign if you go 1v1 and see other guy you just give up because you know there is absolutely no way you could win even if another guy would just spam #1.

It is doubtful those useless buffs and nerfs in next patch change gameplay in a good direction.

tbh I am kind of hopeful for next patch. There has been much more communication now a days, and there is supposed to be much much more after the next patch.

Fingers crossed that it was just a bad first year… I mean anything can flip and get better.

but maybe I’m being overly hopeful…

“And waited. and waited… and waited.”

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

overall sPvP population count for active sPvP players seems very low at the moment.

they just need to do something to attract the WvW / PvE players over to sPvP. still got lots of players over there.

The big issue is reward. Spvp is simply not rewarding enough (in terms of loot, finishers, cash, account points, etc.) to attract many PvE only players.

Getting over run by high rank players in the randoms has turned many people off to Spvp. The kitten talk the the pressure and just being bad at pvp makes many more people quit. The reward for their efforts are titles that will take years to get and noting in their wallet for their play time. WvW has the same but there is gold and achievements there add to the power creep of the character over all. Spvp has almost no effect on your character outside Spvp save a title.

If they were to hold an event for 2 week with boosted points and gold rewards plus a special title then you would see PvE players venture here. Remember for that short period of time you could get laurels from both monthly achievements? Spvp was packed. Anet has to give a little to get a little here.

Spvp players have begged for PvE rewards so they could participate more in PvE without being behind other players. All Anet has to do is loosen the reign and let PvE rewards into Spvp. If they do that the population issue will most likely be solved.

alright, ima say it:

LoL is not a PvP game, it’s an experiment in the dunnan krueger effect (sp).

Pyriall.5027:

Divinity.8041:

Since there are no rewards, what is the incentive to coordinate a 5 man team vs other people, when you can just play YOLOQ instead?

Why try to schedule practice times etc. Most good teams/players have quit or disbanded.

For a game that is literally brand new, the player base for PvP is awful….

Discuss.

#esportslol

The game isn’t brand new…it’s over a year old. In terms of gaming it has already seen its best times. Six months to a year is where you see whether an MMO is going to be sustainable or not. I think we have our answer as it relates to GW2.

You must have never played Gw1 in the 4-5 years of the most active and greatest PvP ever.

@Fugazi, how long did it take before you knew it was a good game and it had growth? I’m sorry to tell you, but the gaming market is not the same as it was then.

Pyriall.5027:

@Fugazi, how long did it take before you knew it was a good game and it had growth? I’m sorry to tell you, but the gaming market is not the same as it was then.

The first GvG I ever did.

Arena.net would be really stupid if it used most of its resources to fix spvp. Yeah, that seems a good plan, let’s put money in pvp so we can try to lure some pvper’s back, players that had lost our trust. So maybe we can have a decent playerbase and maybe we can become an esport and maybe get some of the money invested in fixing spvp back…
Or they could release more pve content and make money. A hard choice as you can see..

And by the way there is rewards in spvp, and pve players farmed a lot of those rewads, achievements and ranks, and they didn’t become spvp players did they ? Yeah, that’s the thing, most pve players don’t like pvp, it’s trying to feed meat to a rabbit, it doesn’t work.

There is no way this game will be anything more than a sidekick for pve, get over with it, if u invested a lot of time in this, well man, kitten happens in life and it could be a lot worse.

Judging by the amount of response just to this forum thread alone Id say that spvp in gw2 is very much alive