Guild Wars 2

Its rather the other way around, there are quite a lot of ruby players that should be in amber/emerald.

I mean, seriously… running for beast first is NOT something I expect to see in ruby. Or dieing instantly to a reaper.

So yeah, I also rather doubt that anyone that actually belongs in ruby, is stuck in emerald… after all, you can grind your way there, if you really have the ambition for it.

If you get matched with higher mmr players, that means that you havent yet reached your maximum, thats why they “take you with them” on their way breezing through lower ranks.

If you get matched with a good player several times, that means he tanked his mmr and has to earn it back. Better he does that in emerald than have a kittenty mmr in ruby, tbh.

So… and on topic:
Yes I think there are quite a handful of good players stuck in ruby hell. But I also think the majority of players with loosing streaks are stuck there too… just in the reverse. They should drop down because they overshot their position in ladder and now are stuck there thanks to failsafe.

Which makes me kinda mad, tbh, because this ruins ruby for everybody except for those few that are really good and can just winstreak through it.

feels to me MMR hell of whatever is just the new excuse for players not willing to put the effort;

I doubt there’s anyone “good” in MMR hell. But I wouldn’t be surprised if some “average” or “slightly below average” players found themselves in MMR hell and end up in a lower tier than similarly skilled “average” or “slightly below average” players.

How about people across the other side of the world with 350-400 ping rate and still manage an above 50% winrate prior to this season? Everything is relative.

I’m working my butt off trying to at least get to Ruby this season and all it’s doing is making me hate PvP. I’ve been stuck in T2 emerald for way too long and it’s frustrating, infuriating and above all disheartening. I’ll get up to 4 pips then lose them all. Or win a match, then lose 3 more. I don’t expect to ever get past Ruby or care to, but really does it have to be this maddening trying to get past the second tier of emerald? Not even to get through the track completely…just one tier. I didn’t like PvP much before this league thing….now I loathe doing matches to try and get out of this hellhole.

I want to finish the achievements and get the backpack but at what cost to my sanity?

(originally posted this in the wrong thread. oops)

Something ive been wondering. Is it possible that average QUALITY of the player is lower in the MMR hell. Not just there skill level. But there quality as a PvPer.

What I mean is that in many of the rage posts I have seen people mention that there team just seems to give up. Or that they feel the matches just aren’t worth playing anymore so they sit at home.

What I am wondering is if the People stuck in MMR Hell are stuck in a sort of self fulfilling prophecy.

They get a team that starts to lose. They assume there going to lose. And they stop playing as hard. Or if not them than there team mates. One thing a league can show that doesn’t often show outside of leagues is the willingness of a player to keep fighting past the point that they have stopped enjoying the match. I see it sometimes even in legendary. One side starts to win and the other calls it if they feel they don’t have a chance. Destroying any chance of an upset. While in other games a team that starts to lose can keep playing and take the enemy team out when they over extend getting enough points that they end up winning in the long run.

Is it possible that its just alot more common in the lower MMR’s?

This isn’t a insult post so if it comes off like that I apologize. its just been something ive been wondering about since the stories of MMR hell started. The players in question tend to take it so personally that I feel maybe its affecting there game play patterns as well. Making them more likely to ease up once they realize a match is going against them. Because there losing streak has taught them theres nothing they can do.

khani.4786:

I’m working my butt off trying to at least get to Ruby this season and all it’s doing is making me hate PvP. I’ve been stuck in T2 emerald for way too long and it’s frustrating, infuriating and above all disheartening. I’ll get up to 4 pips then lose them all. Or win a match, then lose 3 more. I don’t expect to ever get past Ruby or care to, but really does it have to be this maddening trying to get past the second tier of emerald? Not even to get through the track completely…just one tier. I didn’t like PvP much before this league thing….now I loathe doing matches to try and get out of this hellhole.

I want to finish the achievements and get the backpack but at what cost to my sanity?

This is exactly the kind of poster I’m talking about. Do you deserve to be at ruby or diamond or are you forcing your way there and getting angry because you don’t belong?

Fluffball.8307:

Ok fair enough. Is anyone reading this at above a 50% win rate over the course of a few thousand games stuck on a massive losing streak in Ruby, and do you feel you belong in diamond/legendary?

I’m personally at 51.79% winrate (up from 49% pre season 1) and considering how slowly that % goes up above 2.5k games I’d say my season 2 win rate has actually been higher than my total win %.

With that said, I’ve been stuck in ruby for about 2 weeks now. I log in most every day and play till I lose 2x games in a row or lose 3 pips (from the start of the day) and I quit for the day. I never queue more than a duo anymore (and it’s always with a diamond for better matches). I go on HUGE win/loss streaks with games being close (less than 100 apart) about 15~20% of the time.

In all honesty I blame match making no longer matching teams together based on mmr, just building the teams based on their mmr.

Also for ruby players who are actually better than most other ruby players, duo queue with a diamond player, that is where most of my pips have come from in ruby.

Fingers crossed for 6 more pips for diamond (>.<)

I believe I am capable of playing in at least high end sapphire, but because my first ranked game was against a guild team and I was in a pug I lost and over and over it keeps happening.

I am stuck in t3 emerald and for every 3 losses I get a single win on average. A majority of the time I play against a tea that at the very least knows what to do, my team in say stronghold does not have the sense to use a treb or destroy the enemies when they are using it. There is also the case of people running meta build classes and dying within a couple of seconds of a fight.

This is worst in conquest as my team keeps feeding the other team trying to take mid when their far is undefended.

When I win games it is by the skin of my teeth with me having to either fight multiple people for a point or defend against multiple for a point all whilst my team have trouble taking out say 2 of the other team when I is 3v2 or even 4v2 in some occasions with my team being the bigger number.

At the very least I can play at the level of low sapphire but due to poor matchmaking and a bad start it is always an uphill battle and I get not a single thing for having the effort and dedication to continue fighting even when my team is being steamrolled.

khani.4786:

I’m working my butt off trying to at least get to Ruby this season and all it’s doing is making me hate PvP. I’ve been stuck in T2 emerald for way too long and it’s frustrating, infuriating and above all disheartening. I’ll get up to 4 pips then lose them all. Or win a match, then lose 3 more. I don’t expect to ever get past Ruby or care to, but really does it have to be this maddening trying to get past the second tier of emerald? Not even to get through the track completely…just one tier. I didn’t like PvP much before this league thing….now I loathe doing matches to try and get out of this hellhole.

I want to finish the achievements and get the backpack but at what cost to my sanity?

are you still in emerald ?
what profession / build / amulet / traits / skills etc are you using ?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

khani.4786:

I’m working my butt off trying to at least get to Ruby this season and all it’s doing is making me hate PvP. I’ve been stuck in T2 emerald for way too long and it’s frustrating, infuriating and above all disheartening. I’ll get up to 4 pips then lose them all. Or win a match, then lose 3 more. I don’t expect to ever get past Ruby or care to, but really does it have to be this maddening trying to get past the second tier of emerald? Not even to get through the track completely…just one tier. I didn’t like PvP much before this league thing….now I loathe doing matches to try and get out of this hellhole.

I want to finish the achievements and get the backpack but at what cost to my sanity?

are you still in emerald ?
what profession / build / amulet / traits / skills etc are you using ?

I’m stuck in T2 Sapphire.

I main ranger/necro/guardian.
Ranger I have something similar to the meta bunker druid.
Necro I have both a viper/mm and a transfusion/bunkerish build (they took my amulet away for this build so I had to change it)
Guard I run medi/trapper meta build.

I’ve also tried Revanent/herald with knights amulet, sanctuary runes and a build similar to nothing else…I honestly am not too familiar with rev so I should probably try one of the meta builds and see if that helps. I know her build is bad, I don’t deny that. (In fact going to try that right now) [edit: turns out my trait lines were the meta power shiro, but other things were wrong….time to fix that]

When I get on a really bad losing streak…as I’ve been stuck in T2 sapphire for about 2-3 days now…I swap characters to see if playing something different will help me get on better teams.

And the thing is, very few of my matches are blowouts. On of my recent losses was 500 to 497. Those losses I can deal with because it could have easily swung the other way. I just hate being stuck. I know part of it is me because I am part of the team too. I know how to rotate points and to be aware of the map and positioning, but how do I get out of this hole so I can get to Ruby?

To judge if you really “rotate good”, we would need to see gameplay… but here’s a few hints:
- if you are not holding a point, leave as soon as its clear that the rest can handle stomps … never ever stay for cap score
- react to what your team decides to do… if 2 are running far and only you and another dps are left -> dont go mid… split between close and far (3-2) its not perfect, but its better than dieing on mid… if you are support and have a dps with you… you can try to go for mid, if you feel confident you can keep that dps alive
- never ever go for pve mobs first thing

So. From your post I can read one thing quite clearly… you are trying to compensate bad positioning with tanky amulets/minions. You have to stop doing that and learn to disengage/position properly.
For necro… run as glassy as possible (viper, carrion, mercenary) and always stand more towards the back… only run in for cleaves on downed/low hp players… and make sure you can disengage if you get pressured. Dont run minions… AI is dumb. A good player can kite your minions around a corner and kill them / kill you quite easily… only bad players let themselves get confused by the amount of enemy targets.

Tbh, Id advise you to stick to one, max two professions and learn them perfectly in unranked…. after that you will see improvement in your ladder position again when going back to ranked.

Watch streamers / videos of that profession… make mental notes on how they position themselves, what they engage and when they disengage.
Not engaging a hard counter is just as important as killing something.

Thanks Yasi. I’ll work on improving that!

There is no such thing as MMR hell. Your MMR is established over a looong period of time and it would take a ludicrously bad long streak of games to drop it significantly once its built up probably hundreds with a very low winning percentage. Also, you don’t take a hit to MMR when you lose to teams with higher MMR. Its a myth. IF you think you are someone with 1000’s of games played and you went 10-40 or something and that dropped your MMR enough that your stuck with really bad players based on that I got a bridge to sell you somehwere.

believe me it does exist – long losing streaks from the start its real!

Alkore is in MMR-Hell but he is legendary, tho
He just can’t tie his shoes

Footage showing the “I deserv legent but mmr hell kitten da systm!” people.

Burn.5401:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_1sDVt_rI

Footage showing the “I deserv legent but mmr hell kitten da systm!” people.

Nice one. Did he say that he deserv legent ?

Burn.5401:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_1sDVt_rI

Footage showing the “I deserv legent but mmr hell kitten da systm!” people.

People? It’s one person and he didn’t say he deserve legend to my knowledge. Most who complained about MMR never said they deserved legend.

You have more logical fallacies than you wrote sentences in that post. Come on, at least try to be fair when you discuss.

Alright, let me rephrase – “I deserve to have a higher placement on the ladder and I can’t progress because I always get matched with trash teammates that make me lose.”

Better?

Burn.5401:

Alright, let me rephrase – “I deserve to have a higher placement on the ladder and I can’t progress because I always get matched with trash teammates that make me lose.”

Better?

Yes /15 chars

It’s real easy to explain what is going on here.
This concerns solo ques:

Situation (A) "Good player gets stuck in MMR hell*

• Has always been a top 100 player, maybe he’s a won a couple AGs, Aspect GGs.
• Begins play late in season for whatever reason.
• Isn’t able to play more than a match or two a day for whatever reason
• Guy misses the benefits of the MMR reset on day one, where he would have been placed with the others of his actual MMR each match and would have been able to ride that MMR wave up and out of middle tiers pretty easily by maintaining about 10 matches played a day.
• After missing initial MMR wave, guy is now stuck in middle tiers being placed with people who actually should be in middle tiers. These are the types of players who often don’t communicate, make poor rotation decisions that instantly throw a match, don’t swap to form a better comp because they only play one class, they find it acceptable to run underpowered classes and often play for game achievements before winning where they would rather lose 10 matches and win 1 for a tick towards a warrior achievement than lose 1 and win 10 on a main that they already possess an achievement for.
• Due to the above point made, the good player’s match outcomes will majorly be decided by the gambits of: What builds are team mates bringing? Do they even main these builds or are they grinding achievements? Are they going to make a gross error in rotation and throw the match? His own personal skill is subsequential compared to the match altering weight of the above mentioned. No matter how good of a player he is, he only contributes to 20% of the manpower on a 5 man team.

Ultimately, if he is a season 2 late bloomer with less time to play than others, it will take him a hell of a lot longer to break out of middle tiers than if he would have signed in day one and rode his proper MMR placements directly out of that kitten. This is due to middle tier matches having little to do with skill and more to do with the gamble of “what are his team mates playing?”. This is not nearly as much of an issue in higher tier division where everyone swaps characters and only plays meta builds. Higher tier match outcomes are indeed more based on skill/experience as class imbalancing and achievement kitten is not an issue here.

So yes there are good players stuck within the MMR hell and from the players I’ve spoken with, the above reasons concerning starting season play late and not being able to play very often, is exactly why it happens. This is however only half of the problem. See bellow:

Now situation (B) “Bad player grinds and makes it far higher than he should be”

• Always has been a subpar player.
• Never has played with a team on a TS and even if he tries, he’ll be too dense to learn anything from the team anyway.
• Doesn’t really understand rotations and doesn’t care to learn meta.
• Guy signs in on day one, plays as long as he can humanly possibly stay awake. Makes it to Emerald.
• Guy signs in day two, grinds hard for as long as he can humanly possibly stay awake and makes it to Sapphire.
• Guy signs in during first week and plays manically grinding each and every day and eventually breaks in to Ruby through the fire and flame of his Sapphire experience.
• Guy continues to sign in each and every day for the entire season, playing for as long as he can humanly stay awake and with enough erratic match making lopsided luck, breaks in to Diamond.
• He only plays Warrior, refuses to swap when needed, is always the first to go down in a team fight, losses virtually every single 1v1 engaged and is a complete liability for his team to deal with, each and every game. But he rode that grind until a win streak happened and hey, now he’s there but really shouldn’t be at all.

Q: What is the real problem here?
A: Division pip progression dealing with match placement. Bad players grinding & climbing high while strong players with pressed time stay low. Division needs to represent actual MMR, not games grinded. Players should lose pips, tiers and even division for losses, in all divisions.

Burn.5401:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_1sDVt_rI

Footage showing the “I deserv legent but mmr hell kitten da systm!” people.

Haha, what the hell was that? I couldn’t get through more than a couple minutes. Where did you find that?

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It’s real easy to explain what is going on here.
This concerns solo ques:

Situation (A) "Good player gets stuck in MMR hell*

• Has always been a top 100 player, maybe he’s a won a couple AGs, Aspect GGs.
• Begins play late in season for whatever reason.
• Isn’t able to play more than a match or two a day for whatever reason
• Guy misses the benefits of the MMR reset on day one, where he would have been placed with the others of his actual MMR each match and would have been able to ride that MMR wave up and out of middle tiers pretty easily by maintaining about 10 matches played a day.
• After missing initial MMR wave, guy is now stuck in middle tiers being placed with people who actually should be in middle tiers. These are the types of players who often don’t communicate, make poor rotation decisions that instantly throw a match, don’t swap to form a better comp because they only play one class, they find it acceptable to run underpowered classes and often play for game achievements before winning where they would rather lose 10 matches and win 1 for a tick towards a warrior achievement than lose 1 and win 10 on a main that they already possess an achievement for.
• Due to the above point made, the good player’s match outcomes will majorly be decided by the gambits of: What builds are team mates bringing? Do they even main these builds or are they grinding achievements? Are they going to make a gross error in rotation and throw the match? His own personal skill is subsequential compared to the match altering weight of the above mentioned. No matter how good of a player he is, he only contributes to 20% of the manpower on a 5 man team.

Ultimately, if he is a season 2 late bloomer with less time to play than others, it will take him a hell of a lot longer to break out of middle tiers than if he would have signed in day one and rode his proper MMR placements directly out of that kitten. This is due to middle tier matches having little to do with skill and more to do with the gamble of “what are his team mates playing?”. This is not nearly as much of an issue in higher tier division where everyone swaps characters and only plays meta builds. Higher tier match outcomes are indeed more based on skill/experience as class imbalancing and achievement kitten is not an issue here.

So yes there are good players stuck within the MMR hell and from the players I’ve spoken with, the above reasons concerning starting season play late and not being able to play very often, is exactly why it happens. This is however only half of the problem. See bellow:

Now situation (B) “Bad player grinds and makes it far higher than he should be”

• Always has been a subpar player.
• Never has played with a team on a TS and even if he tries, he’ll be too dense to learn anything from the team anyway.
• Doesn’t really understand rotations and doesn’t care to learn meta.
• Guy signs in on day one, plays as long as he can humanly possibly stay awake. Makes it to Emerald.
• Guy signs in day two, grinds hard for as long as he can humanly possibly stay awake and makes it to Sapphire.
• Guy signs in during first week and plays manically grinding each and every day and eventually breaks in to Ruby through the fire and flame of his Sapphire experience.
• Guy continues to sign in each and every day for the entire season, playing for as long as he can humanly stay awake and with enough erratic match making lopsided luck, breaks in to Diamond.
• He only plays Warrior, refuses to swap when needed, is always the first to go down in a team fight, losses virtually every single 1v1 engaged and is a complete liability for his team to deal with, each and every game. But he rode that grind until a win streak happened and hey, now he’s there but really shouldn’t be at all.

Q: What is the real problem here?
A: Division pip progression dealing with match placement. Bad players grinding & climbing high while strong players with pressed time stay low. Division needs to represent actual MMR, not games grinded. Players should lose pips, tiers and even division for losses, in all divisions.

“Situation A” isn’t really MMR hell. It sounds more like a separate problem. Think about it: If you used S1 matchmaking, “Situation A” would be even worse for you because you’d get even worse teammates to make up for your better MMR. Even though you’re getting bad teammates, your teammates should still be better than the enemy players because your MMR should be relatively higher from your past experience.

The solution to “Situation A” is to start high-level players at a higher division. (A temporary workaround could be to just Q with your friends or play a class/build that’s more capable of carrying).

you can only carry so far

Fluffball.8307:

Burn.5401:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_1sDVt_rI

Footage showing the “I deserv legent but mmr hell kitten da systm!” people.

Haha, what the hell was that? I couldn’t get through more than a couple minutes. Where did you find that?

It’s a person that exposed herself to critique here on the forum by providing a vid…

Regardless of how justified ppl felt about telling that person she was not as good as she might have or not believe I doubt what she got along the legit and respectful advises was worth it… too many were just plain kittens just because they had the opportunity to be.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Fluffball.8307:

Burn.5401:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_1sDVt_rI

Footage showing the “I deserv legent but mmr hell kitten da systm!” people.

Haha, what the hell was that? I couldn’t get through more than a couple minutes. Where did you find that?

It’s a person that exposed herself to critique here on the forum by providing a vid…

Regardless of how justified ppl felt about telling that person she was not as good as she might have or not believe I doubt what she got along the legit and respectful advises was worth it… too many were just plain kittens just because they had the opportunity to be.

I remember that post, I think people were just poking fun at a guy who said he was supposed to be higher then what he was. Not that this is a good excuse to be kittening him. But I guess that’s what Burn was just trying to point out that people who blame matchmaking, teammates, toxic players etc. Often don’t look at themselves or see themselves as the problem. When I got to Ruby tier I was winning/losing off, and on. Then I wondered how I could get a full win streak going, thought about it, changed my build as my previous one wasn’t working only 50% . But now my current one I got a win streak going, and I am satisfied with the results. People often don’t do that, and prefer to make excuses or blame other things or the developers, MMR etc rather then change, look inward, or adapt.

Fluffball.8307:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Let’s ignore ruby? This is where MMR hell IS because you can grind it before that and will be the nexus of new players pairing with low/average experienced players.

Ok fair enough. Is anyone reading this at above a 50% win rate over the course of a few thousand games stuck on a massive losing streak in Ruby, and do you feel you belong in diamond/legendary?

I am.
My stats: https://www.gw2pvp.de/profile/23983a13b8924b15ba9593b3a4860c49/
Been stuck in Ruby for the past 22 days. Just because of the randomness in matchmaking.

Also let’s not forget the class-stacking which is very annoying.
They should implent a minimum of 4 classes in Ranked while Season is on.

I know this will hurt your feelings and probably cause a lot of denial, Terrorsquad… but… Ive been on your team for a couple of matches… and against you in others… and something I always noticed is that you die very fast. Especially as a thief you have to be able to get away as soon as you get pressured.

Also your rotation is a bit off… you push far instead of recapping close, even though respawn is coming, stuff like that… not decapping but rather trying to full cap… not stealing beasts.

I dont want to offend, but that loosing streak isnt only due to matchmaking. Im not saying you are bad all the way, Ive not seen enough to say that. Everybody can have a bad day now and then… but there’s some things I pointed out to you (not watching respawn, map extras) thats kinda crucial and should be ingrained so much, that even on a bad day you dont forget it.

Yasi.9065:

I know this will hurt your feelings and probably cause a lot of denial, Terrorsquad… but… Ive been on your team for a couple of matches… and against you in others… and something I always noticed is that you die very fast. Especially as a thief you have to be able to get away as soon as you get pressured.

Also your rotation is a bit off… you push far instead of recapping close, even though respawn is coming, stuff like that… not decapping but rather trying to full cap… not stealing beasts.

I dont want to offend, but that loosing streak isnt only due to matchmaking. Im not saying you are bad all the way, Ive not seen enough to say that. Everybody can have a bad day now and then… but there’s some things I pointed out to you (not watching respawn, map extras) thats kinda crucial and should be ingrained so much, that even on a bad day you dont forget it.

I certainly not going to deny that Yasi, I am playing way off than I used to in pre-HoT.
The problem is also because there’s much more clutter and random AoE’s around. (invisible CC barrier from DH for example, bug still in the game lol).

The second problem some (pug)teams expect me to even fights, while the others (the better ones) know I have to leave fights which are certainly lost and try to +1 elsewhere.

No matter what I do, ppl will always complain about thieves, just because they’re not used to playing with them anymore.

That just makes me not really care about PvP anymore, with all issues around.
(spec balance, class stacking, div/pip matchmaking, no div loss..)

I sometimes realize too late my own rotations aren’t as they used to be because I rely too much on my team to handle their teamfights and totally forget about the respawn while doing so.

Though, I do know that my bursts are well-aimed, both on target and time, causing to push the teamfights in our advantage.

So to go further in your theory; yes, I have done mistakes but all of those losses can’t just be me as there are way worse than me in Diamond/Legendary.

Which just shows the matchmaking (as a whole) is not as skill-based it should be, but rather more focused on Div/pips.

Which basically make me care less and less about how I play as I just want my 3 dailies now. For which I apologize.

FYI: about stealing beasts I mostly don’t get the chance doing so with the teams I’m in since I mostly need to be in the teamfights they mostly lose (rip MMR) once I leave to steal Beast/Decap.

I know I should be stealing beasts but once I do, we lose mid (or any other point with teamfight on) and the snowball begins..

Those are choices I make depending on my team’s ability to target, focus, peel/heal and kite.

As a power thief, you should +1, steal beasts, open gate, use treb, destroy treb, get communes… everybody expecting you to do differently… just ignore them.

And if they loose teamfights they already outnumber without you, so be it. Decap far and pull one from mid fight. Maybe you get that crucial teammember to run for far and midfight turns… Ive seen it happening often enough in soloqueue. Especially if you can get that ranger to leave mid, all of a sudden the tide turns… no clue really why so many rubies/diamonds have trouble with druids in teamfights.

Here some math:
Stealing beast on forest -> 25 points… whole team dieing in midfight -> 25 points… now if you arent on mid its max 20 points for enemy team… if they havent capped mid yet, they need roughly 20 seconds to get those missing 5 points to even the score… if you went on to decap far (not cap, just decap) and your teammates run all mid again (which noobs tend to do) then you pulled one from midfight, that is sure to happen next.
Of course the later part only works if there’s no mesmer portal waiting… if it is… go back to close, get close beast (probably some noob from enemy team tries to steal it) and recap close… or +1 the second teamfight which has a better chance of being won due to you splitting up enemy team.

And of course there are way worse players in diamond… Ive watched a bit of leetos speedrun stream and saw that he carried this really really bad thief up at least one tier.

The invisible barrier is from dragons maw, just watch out for the dragons maw symbol on the ground and even if you dont see it, use port to get out of the barriers / dont run near symbol.

What a lot of players dont do is dodge out of last lb5 hit so they get trapped… I hate it when players dont do that, because its a simple matter of counting and then dodging… its like freaking alpha in coe… every pve noob should be able to do that.

Yasi.9065:

As a power thief, you should +1, steal beasts, open gate, use treb, destroy treb, get communes… everybody expecting you to do differently… just ignore them.

And if they loose teamfights they already outnumber without you, so be it. Decap far and pull one from mid fight. Maybe you get that crucial teammember to run for far and midfight turns… Ive seen it happening often enough in soloqueue. Especially if you can get that ranger to leave mid, all of a sudden the tide turns… no clue really why so many rubies/diamonds have trouble with druids in teamfights.

Here some math:
Stealing beast on forest -> 25 points… whole team dieing in midfight -> 25 points… now if you arent on mid its max 20 points for enemy team… if they havent capped mid yet, they need roughly 20 seconds to get those missing 5 points to even the score… if you went on to decap far (not cap, just decap) and your teammates run all mid again (which noobs tend to do) then you pulled one from midfight, that is sure to happen next.
Of course the later part only works if there’s no mesmer portal waiting… if it is… go back to close, get close beast (probably some noob from enemy team tries to steal it) and recap close… or +1 the second teamfight which has a better chance of being won due to you splitting up enemy team.

And of course there are way worse players in diamond… Ive watched a bit of leetos speedrun stream and saw that he carried this really really bad thief up at least one tier.

The invisible barrier is from dragons maw, just watch out for the dragons maw symbol on the ground and even if you dont see it, use port to get out of the barriers / dont run near symbol.

What a lot of players dont do is dodge out of last lb5 hit so they get trapped… I hate it when players dont do that, because its a simple matter of counting and then dodging… its like freaking alpha in coe… every pve noob should be able to do that.

Iknow what I need to do as thief. But the main issue remains is that ppl, at this very moment, can’t play with thieves generally.

Alot of beginners/not exp players got into ruby which is just impossible for me to win the games.

The most common scene is:

I decap far, team loses mid and close, keeps feeding theirselves into mid/close
and far has 1 guy watching it.. Basically ppl don’t know u need to regroup and just rish a point to snowball..

That’s what I’m stuck with, hence I don’t care about anything either aslong this remains “matchmaking”..

Littlefeather.8623:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Already a number of respected players in organised PvP has posted about how to carry and the importance of tactics..which kinda lends itself to the idea that good players, regardless of who they are placed with will still win regularly and therefore don’t need to the assistance of also being given the lions share of the higher tier/pip players in their team. Whereas the less organised player will give a better match if they have slightly higher quality players around them. It would suggest this is a better way of forming better quality matches.

So from tips and guides of solo q players who attempt to carry make you infer that solo q carriers will “sill win regularly”?

Correct. That is the inference.
The guides/tips/advice are from players who soloQ and are now in legendary. The assumption is that they wouldn’t be there if their methods of carrying didn’t work.

ResJudicator.7916:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It’s real easy to explain what is going on here.
This concerns solo ques:

Situation (A) "Good player gets stuck in MMR hell*

• Has always been a top 100 player, maybe he’s a won a couple AGs, Aspect GGs.
• Begins play late in season for whatever reason.
• Isn’t able to play more than a match or two a day for whatever reason
• Guy misses the benefits of the MMR reset on day one, where he would have been placed with the others of his actual MMR each match and would have been able to ride that MMR wave up and out of middle tiers pretty easily by maintaining about 10 matches played a day.
• After missing initial MMR wave, guy is now stuck in middle tiers being placed with people who actually should be in middle tiers. These are the types of players who often don’t communicate, make poor rotation decisions that instantly throw a match, don’t swap to form a better comp because they only play one class, they find it acceptable to run underpowered classes and often play for game achievements before winning where they would rather lose 10 matches and win 1 for a tick towards a warrior achievement than lose 1 and win 10 on a main that they already possess an achievement for.
• Due to the above point made, the good player’s match outcomes will majorly be decided by the gambits of: What builds are team mates bringing? Do they even main these builds or are they grinding achievements? Are they going to make a gross error in rotation and throw the match? His own personal skill is subsequential compared to the match altering weight of the above mentioned. No matter how good of a player he is, he only contributes to 20% of the manpower on a 5 man team.

Ultimately, if he is a season 2 late bloomer with less time to play than others, it will take him a hell of a lot longer to break out of middle tiers than if he would have signed in day one and rode his proper MMR placements directly out of that kitten. This is due to middle tier matches having little to do with skill and more to do with the gamble of “what are his team mates playing?”. This is not nearly as much of an issue in higher tier division where everyone swaps characters and only plays meta builds. Higher tier match outcomes are indeed more based on skill/experience as class imbalancing and achievement kitten is not an issue here.

So yes there are good players stuck within the MMR hell and from the players I’ve spoken with, the above reasons concerning starting season play late and not being able to play very often, is exactly why it happens. This is however only half of the problem. See bellow:

Now situation (B) “Bad player grinds and makes it far higher than he should be”

• Always has been a subpar player.
• Never has played with a team on a TS and even if he tries, he’ll be too dense to learn anything from the team anyway.
• Doesn’t really understand rotations and doesn’t care to learn meta.
• Guy signs in on day one, plays as long as he can humanly possibly stay awake. Makes it to Emerald.
• Guy signs in day two, grinds hard for as long as he can humanly possibly stay awake and makes it to Sapphire.
• Guy signs in during first week and plays manically grinding each and every day and eventually breaks in to Ruby through the fire and flame of his Sapphire experience.
• Guy continues to sign in each and every day for the entire season, playing for as long as he can humanly stay awake and with enough erratic match making lopsided luck, breaks in to Diamond.
• He only plays Warrior, refuses to swap when needed, is always the first to go down in a team fight, losses virtually every single 1v1 engaged and is a complete liability for his team to deal with, each and every game. But he rode that grind until a win streak happened and hey, now he’s there but really shouldn’t be at all.

Q: What is the real problem here?
A: Division pip progression dealing with match placement. Bad players grinding & climbing high while strong players with pressed time stay low. Division needs to represent actual MMR, not games grinded. Players should lose pips, tiers and even division for losses, in all divisions.

“Situation A” isn’t really MMR hell. It sounds more like a separate problem. Think about it: If you used S1 matchmaking, “Situation A” would be even worse for you because you’d get even worse teammates to make up for your better MMR. Even though you’re getting bad teammates, your teammates should still be better than the enemy players because your MMR should be relatively higher from your past experience.

The solution to “Situation A” is to start high-level players at a higher division. (A temporary workaround could be to just Q with your friends or play a class/build that’s more capable of carrying).

(A) We aren’t using S1 match making. We are using S2 match making.
(B) Did you not read my post? The entire post is about how you are not able to get ques full of team mates with your actual MMR. The post was about how late starting season 2 players who are not able to play often, become stuck in a world of gamble matches where the already listed factors have far more weight to decide a match outcome than your own personal skill level. Winning matches, becomes the luck of the draw.
© The idea of carrying matches is great and sometimes can work but is often impossible within middle tier matches. There isn’t anything you can do to carry: W, W, DH, Thief who make several detrimental errors vs. Rev, Rev, Tempest, Reaper, w/e else that don’t make any gross errors. Sometimes in middle tier, you just get the dung stacked team. It happens often.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

(A) We aren’t using S1 match making. We are using S2 match making.
(B) Did you not read my post? The entire post is about how you are not able to get ques full of team mates with your actual MMR. The post was about how late starting season 2 players who are not able to play often, become stuck in a world of gamble matches where the already listed factors have far more weight to decide a match outcome than your own personal skill level. Winning matches, becomes the luck of the draw.
© The idea of carrying matches is great and sometimes can work but is often impossible within middle tier matches. There isn’t anything you can do to carry: W, W, DH, Thief who make several detrimental errors vs. Rev, Rev, Tempest, Reaper, w/e else that don’t make any gross errors. Sometimes in middle tier, you just get the dung stacked team. It happens often.

You completely misread what I wrote. I’m not arguing against your concerns. I’ll try to explain more thoroughly this time:

I pointed out that you’ve actually described a separate problem from “MMR Hell.” “MMR Hell” refers to the fact that each match consists of a “favored team” (the team with higher MMR) and the “disfavored team” (the team with lower MMR), and if your MMR sucks you will usually be on the disfavored team.

The problem you’re describing in Situation A is valid, but it’s a completely separate problem. You’re saying that you started late in the season, so you’re stuck in games with bad players on both teams. This has nothing to do with your MMR, and you aren’t in “MMR Hell.”

The problem you described has to do with the fact that almost all of the good players have already made it to legendary. As a result, the game is trying to fill your team with people who have similar MMR and who are within your pip range. So even if your MMR was at the max, if you’re in Sapphire you’re going to get other Sapphire teammates. You’d still be on the “favored” team, but almost all the players in the match are probably going to be pretty bad. Which is exactly what you described happening.

It’s important to distinguish between the two different problems because they involve different solutions. And they also have different value judgments. For example, a person could believe that it’s fine for bad players to be stuck in Ruby (i.e. rejecting “MMR Hell”, but that good players who start late should not be stuck in Ruby for too long (i.e. accepting your problem). And one solution would be to start good players higher up (for example, starting you in Diamond if you made it to Legendary last season).

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Correct. That is the inference.
The guides/tips/advice are from players who soloQ and are now in legendary. The assumption is that they wouldn’t be there if their methods of carrying didn’t work. [/quote]

Oh I see, so the players who are in legendary league, out of those since some wrote guides, this leaves you to infer any / all solo q players can win regularly.

Fluffball.8307:

I’m curious if anyone who is a better than average player is stuck in emerald, or if it’s a vocal minority of inexperienced players who think they’re better than they are (Dunning Kruger ).

Is there anyone who is in that situation that can somehow show the community that they are indeed a good player (perhaps community tournament wins, a 65% win ratio over thousands of games, YT highlights, etc.)?

Let’s ignore ruby because that is where most players are supposed to wind up.

Hopefully this isn’t seen as an attempt to belittle anyone, I honestly wonder if anyone has fallen through the cracks or if people are just upset they can’t climb higher than their skill and experience allows.

i’d like to share some insight from the other side: i am a “bad” soloQ player who made it out of ruby and am chugging along diamond, slowly and frustratingly.

i’ve been playing forever, i’m fairly knowledgeable about GW2 in most apects. sPvP is not my strength, but am learning. i claim to be “bad” because my winrate is 47% this season (was ~52% 1st season, but that’s because the condi rev carried me. Abaddon resistance no internal CD OP.) i further claim “badness” because i’ve done many of the things people are complaining about on the pvp boards:

• dying instantly in mid fight.
• going far for a decap when i should probably help home.
• not rezzing/stomping.
• losing all 1v1 in a single game.
• dying multiple times in a single game, etc.

now, i’m not ALWAYS AWFUL. from my perspective, these situational, isolated instances of sucking just happens sometimes.

take for example, wiping at the initial 4v4 at mid. if a couple (un)lucky stuns/roots land, those 4 enemies focus firing will down you. it can happen fast if you’re glass. sometimes you can stunbreak/teleport/condi clear your way to safety, sometimes the focus fire is too intense. it just happens.

in my experience, win streaks happen when you don’t just give up after wiping at mid initially. 1 wipe is like what 30-40 points? less than 10% of the game, if you adapt and play sides to split up their uber 4 man focus firing group, maybe something will change. maybe you’ll pull them into 2v3 where your small team comp is better than theirs while the 3v2 at the other end of the map can stall long enough. maybe during this split you find a soft support who’s very effective at healing but weak under pressure. maybe during this split you find out your necro can 1v2 their dps.

i can tell you for sure that you won’t win the match where someone is typing furiously complaining about wiping at the start and “you guys suck, woe is me” AND THEN your teammates start chattin back. those are the worst.. no wait, the worst is when a teammate types “another loss. afk” when the score is 75-10.

the nerf to bunker builds has made the matches and the fights within a lot more volatile. this isn’t 1st season where you can bunker on two points forever so whoever caps mid wins.

you can hate on me, say i got carried to diamond because of my sub-50% winrate, you can blame me for all your mid wipes but it won’t change me telling you: comeback points and win streak points are where it’s at! you bet win streak fights are tough, but not unbeatable. a week is all i needed in ruby. got a month to try for legendary. sorry to taint your pvp world with my pve item collecting. i’ll be gone once i get my wings.

TL;DR: no more bunker = initial mid fight is NOT THE ENTIRE MATCH. don’t give up because your teammates apparently suck. adapt and earn your win streak.

I’m Bad – and stuck in Diamond.
Made it to T2 diamond twice back to start.. then boom – now I’m T4 diamond.

I think its cause the ESL Players are all gone playing the Pro Legue !!

I don’t understand why people are making a fuss about being stuck in a certain division- I moved on to Smite and am stuck in bronze 1(aka trash) and i couldn’t care less. Eventhough I sometimes convince myself that I’m better than your average bronzie :p . Unless you’re on one of those 16 game losing streaks or whatnot.
What I’m getting at is maybe that’s where you belong? This ain’t directed to the guy above me just in general

MAN.9046:

I don’t understand why people are making a fuss about being stuck in a certain division- I moved on to Smite and am stuck in bronze 1(aka trash) and i couldn’t care less. Eventhough I sometimes convince myself that I’m better than your average bronzie :p . Unless you’re on one of those 16 game losing streaks or whatnot.
What I’m getting at is maybe that’s where you belong? This ain’t directed to the guy above me just in general

yes you may belong there now but if you improve and so could end up higher you wont get there as you are stuck that’s the point . The system does not allow people who actually improve to show that in their progression

OR maybe, people did the math and win streaks or loss streaks can skew your mmr to lock you into a place you don’t belong……

Not to mention how L/L/L/W/W/W will render positive pip progression where as W/L/W/L/W/L will not. This is a huge reason why I am stuck in Ruby still. It seems that players who are less skilled, that go on a big lose streak and eventually hit a big free win streak, get that positive pip progression to jolt ahead when they should not be. However a player getting W/L/W/L/W/L against truly difficult opponents will stand still and never progress in pips.

The division system is botched really.

“Really difficult opponents” though, they will move on, you stand still, meaning you get less good opponents, which in turn will you let move on.

Ive never really had w-l-w-l over more than 10 matches, and mostly just logging off and logging back in a bit later already solved that problem.

Usually I get 3-6 wins, then a couple of losses with a win thrown in every now and then… then I start a winstreak again and so on.

I take that as a sign that Im still progressing and not yet at my maximum.

Longest loosing streak I ever had, btw, was 6 games lost. Most pips I lost with only a win now and then in between (something like l-l-w-l-l-l-w-l-l), was 11 pips. It actually happened when I joined a “pvp” guild and queueing with some of those guildmembers.
Lack of trials should have been my warning <sigh>.
Not saying pvp lfg guilds are all bad, found a handful of good players there… but… the majority probably just joins because they are stuck.

Yasi.9065:

“Really difficult opponents” though, they will move on, you stand still, meaning you get less good opponents, which in turn will you let move on.

It has been repeatedly stated that this hasn’t been happening. The player flow from low divisions to high divisions is not even.