Potaters!
Is burst damage really this bad?
@lxal
Feel free to share and enlighten us with this “ACTUAL EVIDENCE” you claim to have.
I mean clearly you really are that ignorant to think a screenshot can show how quick someone was killed.
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant to think a video in wvwvw with all orb buffs is a basis for balance
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant not to understand even the basic mechanics and functions of a warriors frenzy to get why the hissy fit started in the first place, your just another inept troll who only saw the damage and not the frenzy on cooldown. Ahh you didn’t know that did you. I bet not, clearly you are far too new.
Or perhaps edited video suffices? Where someone can cut out the 20 times the thief died or had to run away but only kept the 1 time he killed. Silly rabbit.
With such ignorance, I am surprised Darwinism hasn’t caught up with you yet. Tis’ the world we live in.
You have 3 guys (including the thief) at a point. They have 3 guys at the same point. The thief rolls in and downs 1 guy, effectively removing him from any significant contribution to the fight at that point. You now have 3 guys. They have 2. You have 50% more guys.
All this assumes is that the second the thief hits the floor, you are powerless and one of your guys is definitely going down, when it should be
Thief hits the ground, Blah calls target on Thief, press T to assist.
Root/snare/chill/whatever, BS thief has 14k health and no Toughness, and can be hit while in stealth, a GS warrior would gib him with 4 auto attacks.
“Oh but thief hits steal and goes stealthed” Yeah? Now you know exactly where he is, running/dodge rolling to get behind the guy he just hit with steal, hit that area, thief is dead.
And yes, when you see a BS thief, you most definitely need to target him first, same exact thing for a shatter mesmer, or a HB warrior, or a Scept/dag dmg ele. Focus fire is the name of the game
@lxal
Feel free to share and enlighten us with this “ACTUAL EVIDENCE” you claim to have.I mean clearly you really are that ignorant to think a screenshot can show how quick someone was killed.
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant to think a video in wvwvw with all orb buffs is a basis for balance
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant not to understand even the basic mechanics and functions of a warriors frenzy to get why the hissy fit started in the first place, your just another inept troll who only saw the damage and not the frenzy on cooldown. Ahh you didn’t know that did you. I bet not, clearly you are far too new.
Or perhaps edited video suffices? Where someone can cut out the 20 times the thief died or had to run away but only kept the 1 time he killed. Silly rabbit.
With such ignorance, I am surprised Darwinism hasn’t caught up with you yet. Tis’ the world we live in.
And I am also not ignorant enough to think that a video showing spvp and tpvp gameplay from a thief downing players in seconds like for example in Jinzu’s video will change your mind.
I spend enough time on the thief board to know that most thief players will never accept any evidence that there is something odd about backstab. They always come with baseless accusations how the player downed by a thief sucks and can’t play or build glass cannon no matter his equipment.
@lxal
Feel free to share and enlighten us with this “ACTUAL EVIDENCE” you claim to have.I mean clearly you really are that ignorant to think a screenshot can show how quick someone was killed.
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant to think a video in wvwvw with all orb buffs is a basis for balance
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant not to understand even the basic mechanics and functions of a warriors frenzy to get why the hissy fit started in the first place, your just another inept troll who only saw the damage and not the frenzy on cooldown. Ahh you didn’t know that did you. I bet not, clearly you are far too new.
Or perhaps edited video suffices? Where someone can cut out the 20 times the thief died or had to run away but only kept the 1 time he killed. Silly rabbit.
With such ignorance, I am surprised Darwinism hasn’t caught up with you yet. Tis’ the world we live in.
And I am also not ignorant enough to think that a video showing spvp and tpvp gameplay from a thief downing players in seconds like for example in Jinzu’s video will change your mind.
I spend enough time on the thief board to know that most thief players will never accept any evidence that there is something odd about backstab. They always come with baseless accusations how the player downed by a thief sucks and can’t play or build glass cannon no matter his equipment.
Jinzu’s video is edited. It doesn’t include how many times he fails, or dies or whether his team ends up winning the match. If all you care about is one build and not how effective it is in actually winning games then you have a real problem with finding any balance. Following that logic and it just becomes whack a mole with a fotm build getting nerfed every week. Which is way worse for the whole e-sports thing. League of Legends is successful because they have a lot of different viable team comps. What Anet should be doing is giving a lot of the professions more ways to win matches to increase the variety of team comps. This is done through either widespread changes or class rebalancing. Not the tweaking we’re seeing now which will only change the fotm.
@lxal
Feel free to share and enlighten us with this “ACTUAL EVIDENCE” you claim to have.I mean clearly you really are that ignorant to think a screenshot can show how quick someone was killed.
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant to think a video in wvwvw with all orb buffs is a basis for balance
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant not to understand even the basic mechanics and functions of a warriors frenzy to get why the hissy fit started in the first place, your just another inept troll who only saw the damage and not the frenzy on cooldown. Ahh you didn’t know that did you. I bet not, clearly you are far too new.
Or perhaps edited video suffices? Where someone can cut out the 20 times the thief died or had to run away but only kept the 1 time he killed. Silly rabbit.
With such ignorance, I am surprised Darwinism hasn’t caught up with you yet. Tis’ the world we live in.
And I am also not ignorant enough to think that a video showing spvp and tpvp gameplay from a thief downing players in seconds like for example in Jinzu’s video will change your mind.
I spend enough time on the thief board to know that most thief players will never accept any evidence that there is something odd about backstab. They always come with baseless accusations how the player downed by a thief sucks and can’t play or build glass cannon no matter his equipment.Jinzu’s video is edited. It doesn’t include how many times he fails, or dies or whether his team ends up winning the match. If all you care about is one build and not how effective it is in actually winning games then you have a real problem with finding any balance.
Let me guess. Thief player? Like I said, no evidence is good enough…
Actually that is how classes are balanced.
According to you an ability with a 5 minute cooldown which randomly kills an enemy in the match with no way to defend against it is balanced because its not necessarily game deciding.
It doesn’t matter if the games where Jinzu pulled of his backstabs were won. You can’t balance an ability with bad teammates. And how often did Jinzu fail? Do you know? I am pretty sure you don’t. So let me be a thief player for a moment and demand ACTUAL EVIDENCE.
From the current thief flood in PvP it doesn’t look like that the success rate is low. And even if it were. The existence of such a combo alone is already problematic even if it is hard to pull off when the result is pretty much guaranteed instant death unless the enemy builds in one and only one specific way.
Or to use LoL terms. A combo which kills everyone unless he has a HoG is balanced, people just needs to buy a HoG, right?
(edited by Ixal.7924)
@lxal
Feel free to share and enlighten us with this “ACTUAL EVIDENCE” you claim to have.I mean clearly you really are that ignorant to think a screenshot can show how quick someone was killed.
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant to think a video in wvwvw with all orb buffs is a basis for balance
Clearly, you are THAT ignorant not to understand even the basic mechanics and functions of a warriors frenzy to get why the hissy fit started in the first place, your just another inept troll who only saw the damage and not the frenzy on cooldown. Ahh you didn’t know that did you. I bet not, clearly you are far too new.
Or perhaps edited video suffices? Where someone can cut out the 20 times the thief died or had to run away but only kept the 1 time he killed. Silly rabbit.
With such ignorance, I am surprised Darwinism hasn’t caught up with you yet. Tis’ the world we live in.
And I am also not ignorant enough to think that a video showing spvp and tpvp gameplay from a thief downing players in seconds like for example in Jinzu’s video will change your mind.
I spend enough time on the thief board to know that most thief players will never accept any evidence that there is something odd about backstab. They always come with baseless accusations how the player downed by a thief sucks and can’t play or build glass cannon no matter his equipment.Jinzu’s video is edited. It doesn’t include how many times he fails, or dies or whether his team ends up winning the match. If all you care about is one build and not how effective it is in actually winning games then you have a real problem with finding any balance.
Let me guess. Thief player? Like I said, no evidence is good enough…
Actually that is how classes are balanced.
According to you an ability with a 5 minute cooldown which randomly kills an enemy in the match with no way to defend against it is balanced because its not necessarily game deciding.
Chill dude. I guess you really haven’t tried a backstab thief. When it works it’s great. But it doesn’t work all the time in tPvP which is really where these kinds of balance questions matter. If it gets nerfed I really don’t care since there is nothing stopping me from playing another profession which is a strength of Anet’s PvP. But it isn’t really as gamebreaking as people make it out to be. I am more convinced of people saying burst in general needs to be toned down to slow the pace of fights, then people rabble rousing over just the thief. League of Legends has a great esports scene because there is a lot of variety to the comps even though teamfights and ganking can be decided in seconds just like Guild Wars 2 at the moment. Anet needs to figure out which direction they want to go in for esports because as it is right now it isn’t ready. Teamfights can be a chaotic looking mess right now and team comps are kind of stagnant with the whole bunker situation. You generally want more fluid action and strategy.
if one of those SLOW moves, like Elemealist Dragon tooth falling out the sky, or warrior elite skill snipe, or mortar.
see if stuff like THAT hit me for 10k id be ok with it.
but hartseeker and backstab and 100 blades? nah not cool with it
If you’re fighting a 3v3 at a point and you roll in and drop one of those 3 opponents in a matter of seconds, your side just gained a 50% advantage. That you maybe have to peel back and trickshot from afar is irrelevant. You cut their damage output by 1/3 (or possibly much more if you pick your target properly).
That all your damage is frontloaded is irrelevant at that point. You’ve given your guys the advantage they needed to swing things your way (assuming you’re not playing with terrible team mates).
Then your teammate uses a pushback/stun/imo/ etc, and revives or casts a revive. And the thief/warrior/etcis countered and effectively useless for a good amount of time. And a lose of 1 out of 3 people wouldn’t be a 50% advantage.
…
I’m not trying to be funny here, but this is basic math.
You have 3 guys (including the thief) at a point. They have 3 guys at the same point. The thief rolls in and downs 1 guy, effectively removing him from any significant contribution to the fight at that point. You now have 3 guys. They have 2. You have 50% more guys.
And the ‘lol then you can just use some CC and revive’ is nonsense, because any one of those 3 guys can just as easily use some CC immunity for the stomp. You’re still a dude down, and outnumbered.
It’s not rocket surgery.
Hmm, I was drawing the percentages from the original number of players when the fight started. So, you lose one player and you have lost 33.3% percent of your force, granting an advantage of said 33.3% to the the opposite side as well. A simple misunderstanding, and difference in drawing data, my apologies. (we can agree to disagree in which way to go about it I think)
However, you can still cast one of the many near-instant revive spells. If you’re worried about getting rocked by a glass cannon, then someone on your team should have one. Lastly, isn’t it worthy to note that a glass cannon does not succeed 100% of the time in getting a down from their burst? (that is, unless the one getting hit isn’t a to great a player) People speak of this like they down everyone every single attempt.
I wish I had taken a screenshot of the time a Thief’s Backstab did 0 damage to me in 1v1, because it was blatantly obvious it was incoming and I build Endure Pain into my utilities to counter high burst like this. He did 0 damage repeatedly while I stood and looked at him, then he ran away. I didn’t even move.
Burst damage is pretty OP, I guess.
Also, using one-off example logic to try to argue balance is useless and only serves to create threads full of flamebait.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
ITT all the rogues [sic] are afraid they will have to roll a class that takes more than 2-3 buttons to down a fellow glass cannon.
What’s their counter? Bunker builds, which really don’t do much as the rogue ignores it and 3 shots your Ele. I’m really disgusted how fellow Thieves (yes I have one) can put their fingers in their ears to ignore the 9-12k single hits I’m kitten sure they’ve done.
@booyah: Alternatively, ITT: all the players who were hit for 10k+, didn’t bother to analyze their own play, and immediately came to the forums to ask for nerfs because they can’t be troubled to give an iota of effort towards self-improvement.
I’m not even saying Backstab shouldn’t be looked at, but I don’t even think it’s Backstab that’s the problem. Being able to Steal while in the middle of the C&D animation is really the crux of the issue.
Except no one cares, because oh my god numbers are really high and they should totally be nerfed because of reasons, am I right?
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
I’ve been dropped tonight before being able to get block to trigger on at least two occasions by backstab thieves. Yes, this is a team game and you should be able to rely on your teammates, but when you leave the 28k health shield warrior to defend a node, burst is a bit high when he loses it before he’s even delayed the enemy, right?
Running a shield with 30 defense and 28k health. It really doesn’t get a whole lot more “tanky” than that.
That, by definition, is burst, and it is a problematic amount of it.
You won’t run into it from many classes or specs, though, burst isn’t coming from everyone. Standing in a full barrage is bad, but hardly unavoidable. Eating a warrior greatsword is an outright mistake by anyone that actually lets themselves eat the whole thing. Backstab is about the only attack that directly frontloads in amounts that decide a fight in the opening button press, as far as damage goes(heartseeker can finish it, but the thief does have to get you to that point).
I’ve been dropped tonight before being able to get block to trigger on at least two occasions by backstab thieves. Yes, this is a team game and you should be able to rely on your teammates, but when you leave the 28k health shield warrior to defend a node, burst is a bit high when he loses it before he’s even delayed the enemy, right?
Running a shield with 30 defense and 28k health. It really doesn’t get a whole lot more “tanky” than that.
That, by definition, is burst, and it is a problematic amount of it.
You won’t run into it from many classes or specs, though, burst isn’t coming from everyone. Standing in a full barrage is bad, but hardly unavoidable. Eating a warrior greatsword is an outright mistake by anyone that actually lets themselves eat the whole thing. Backstab is about the only attack that directly frontloads in amounts that decide a fight in the opening button press, as far as damage goes(heartseeker can finish it, but the thief does have to get you to that point).
While you’re on the subject, could you please elaborate how you couldn’t get block to trigger? Did it involve Basilisk Venom? Do you not have a stun break? Did you not see the Thief approaching in the distance? What are your utilities?`
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
Double tap, or v, to dodge. Problem solved.
Former PvP commentator for ESL & Arenanet.
I used to run the Academy Gaming tournaments for GW2.
I used to run the Academy Gaming tournaments for GW2.
I’m not on the subject, just adding my two bits. The OP was asking about burst damage, and I mentioned that it exists in this form.
in all honesty if you play a burst spec with no vit or toughness you cant really complain about thiefs damage because obviously you are trying to do the same thing to them..
its hypocrisy to its fullest.
if you think its so easy change class
Yet when a Thief plays like that, its fine. Because thanks to instant-gapclosers and stealth he will always get the first strike and win. And even in toughness and vitality you still eat a ton of damage.
“you need toughness!”
“got that”
“…and vitality!”
“check”
“trait defensively”
“uhuh”
“go full bunker!”
“yah that worked”
“NERF BUNKERS!”And we already see a ton of people changing classes. Have a look in any starter level zone, or in sPvP. There is a disproportional amount of fresh Thieves.
Have to agree on this. For some reason it is totally ok, that thieves can run around naked, while the rest of us have to be tanks. No other burst-specc can be as survivable nor come close to the burst (I can’t speak of warriors, since I don’t play that class). I dare say that as an absolute in the current state, and I would normally never go around making up absolutes.
There is only one other class, where I can run around naked … which of course is mesmer … and I get openly assaulted, when I beat kitten-thieves hitting my clones, while they are perfectly ok with their AS-softcore-builds insta-gibbing ppl with 3k armor … sigh. No, I don’t mind it, the mentality among some “pro-players” is just … weird.
It is not like the game is unplayable, but if I want to go in pug-groups (of any kind), it is “always” full of thieves, and to survive that I have to go full bunkers (or condition), unless I want to play … thief. Which I don’t. On the positive side, I get to know a lot of bunker/condition-builds.
(edited by Poxxia.1547)
@lxal Keep crying
Ignorance is ignorance. You only dig yourself your own grave, not us.
Provide real evidence, even others have told you why.
@Poxxia
In a game where a class exists that can take up to 1m or infinity to kill, There has to exist a class that can kill in a minimum of 3-5 seconds.
The difference is one is high risk high reward, the other is not. Clearly, it is the bunker that is not high risk, but is getting high reward, people just get mad cuz they died but don’t see how it is them, or how it is the bunker that is the class/build that doesn’t require skill and finess.
The only way A-net will really reduce the damage of a thief, is if they reduce the maximum survivability of the tankier classes. Otherwise, I already made a detailed thread redesigning thief that would perfectly give people more time to react when facing a thief, but of course these whiners still haven’t really jumped on it only further proving they are just crying for attention
(edited by Knyx.5926)
I’m not on the subject, just adding my two bits. The OP was asking about burst damage, and I mentioned that it exists in this form.
I was just hoping we could have an actual discussion about the cause of burst damage succeeding on tank-specced players and how it could potentially be avoided.
My bad.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
I’m not on the subject, just adding my two bits. The OP was asking about burst damage, and I mentioned that it exists in this form.
I was just hoping we could have an actual discussion about the cause of burst damage succeeding on tank-specced players and how it could potentially be avoided.
My bad.
The problem is that, especially with the render bug/issue, the thief wants to land his backstab will land it because you cannot see an invisible enemy coming.
Sometimes you just here “ding, ding” but no one is there and your health bar drops madly and you dodge but the damage landed already.
The assassins signet is certainly one of the culprits which adds to the problem.
And the cause why players simply are annoyed by this whole mechanic is most likely that it is frontloaded, it is easy to pull off (just play an elemental or necro if you do not believe me) and if a thief screws up he can get easily away with stealth or infiltrator arrow and just waits the 45sec to get another attempt for a basically free kill.
@lxal Keep crying
Ignorance is ignorance. You only dig yourself your own grave, not us.
Provide real evidence, even others have told you why.@Poxxia
In a game where a class exists that can take up to 1m or infinity to kill, There has to exist a class that can kill in a minimum of 3-5 seconds.
The difference is one is high risk high reward, the other is not. Clearly, it is the bunker that is not high risk, but is getting high reward, people just get mad cuz they died but don’t see how it is them, or how it is the bunker that is the class/build that doesn’t require skill and finess.The only way A-net will really reduce the damage of a thief, is if they reduce the maximum survivability of the tankier classes. Otherwise, I already made a detailed thread redesigning thief that would perfectly give people more time to react when facing a thief, but of course these whiners still haven’t really jumped on it only further proving they are just crying for attention
You are like a kid who throws a tantrum “bwaaah that’s no evidence bwwaaaah”. Pray, tell us what is evidence in your book?
Screenshots are no evidence
Videos are no evidence
Tests at the golem site are no evidence
Combat log is no evidence
Pfff…I could say now something but I don’t want an infraction.
(edited by Asmodean.5820)
@booyah: Alternatively, ITT: all the players who were hit for 10k+, didn’t bother to analyze their own play, and immediately came to the forums to ask for nerfs because they can’t be troubled to give an iota of effort towards self-improvement.
I’m not even saying Backstab shouldn’t be looked at, but I don’t even think it’s Backstab that’s the problem. Being able to Steal while in the middle of the C&D animation is really the crux of the issue.
Except no one cares, because oh my god numbers are really high and they should totally be nerfed because of reasons, am I right?
Yes, you are right. That is the short version … some of thieves skills do (imo) need to be looked into, for how much they gain for little effort. As I recall you were not overly eager about Moa, right? Same thing. Too much gain for too little effort; given the right circumstances, it is hard if not impossible to avoid what thieves bring. Given the right build, right class sure I can beat thieves; as both mes, ranger and necro I feel I have a fair shot (more than fair as mes), but both necro and ranger have to completely adapt to the play set up by thieves. Why is that? Especially as necro, I work a ton more than when I vent my thief … why is that? I don’t mind being totally beaten up by a better player or even a counter-specc … but thieves are the burst-class all defense evolves around, and it is horribly easy to pull off. That is the problem I have with the situation.
In a game where a class exists that can take up to 1m or infinity to kill, There has to exist a class that can kill in a minimum of 3-5 seconds.
One of the biggest problems with the game balance right now is that these 2 extremes exist, and if you’re not playing one of those 2 types of builds, you get screwed by both.
The argument relating to bunkers is a common reasoning for why some classes should be able to wreck you in a matter of seconds. It’s a poor argument not because it’s particularly incorrect, but because bunkers shouldn’t be as survivable as they currently are, which necessitates the need for extreme damage on the other end of the spectrum.
‘This is broken, so that’s why this other thing needs to be broken’ is not the way to balance.
Potaters!
@Asmodean
Ignorance is flowing like the nile now…
So equal expectations is a tantrum? You have reached a new level of childish.
Presents gold medal
ANYONE can make a video of ANY class dominating another whilst editing out all the times they died or failed.
ANYONE can take a screenshot in an uncontrolled environment showing they got dropped.
ANYONE can show them dominating in wvwvw with all the orb buffs.
Sounds like you are STILL claiming to have no knowledge of the drawbacks of frenzy?
lol….
Sounds like you are STILL claiming that a screenshot shows time to die/kill?
lol….
Sounds like you are STILL claiming multiple backstabs equal 1?
Sounds like you are STILL claiming mug+CnD+Backstab+HS= killed by 1 backstab in 1 second?
I mean seriously, I weep for our species.
Whoop looks like I made him upset, so upset he had to PM me.
—-
From Asmodean::
““I mean seriously, I weep for our species.”
Seriously, use common sense. You can even use easy maths when you use date from various sources to get a ttk.
However, I think you do not want or cannot do it. Either you are lacking in common sense and basic skills like lower maths or you have an psychologic problem because playing a thief satisfies a deep urge in you to “dominate” or “be good at something”.
Honestly, you do not make me angry. I pity you.”
—-
So apparently he thinks you can get ttk from a “date”. hahahaha
So confident he had to PM it.
Yes, I clearly want to dominate. I play a condition build that takes anywhere from 15 seconds to a minute to kill someone. Gossh, you got me. Want a screenshot of my gear and build since im 80 and have been since the wednesday after launch?
I play ele in spvp, guess I still play to dominate, watch out ele players, hes insinuating you need a nerf.
So clearly, making you angry, I hath succeeded.
——————————————————- PMed me again
From Asmodean ::: “Thanks. Your reply just shows that you cannot refute even one argument and proves what I wrote in my post.
Oh, and you do not need to pm me again. I will just delete your message without reading it. I won’t communicate with people on a certain level. And you reached this level.”
-A tantrum (or temper tantrum or tirade or hissy fit) is an emotional outburst, usually associated with children or those in emotional distress, that is typically characterized by stubbornness, crying, screaming, yelling, shrieking, defiance, angry ranting, a resistance to attempts at pacification and, in some cases, violence. Physical control may be lost, the person may be unable to remain still, and even if the “goal” of the person is met he or she may not be calmed.12345 A tantrum may be expressed in a tirade: a protracted, angry, or violent speech
(edited by Knyx.5926)
in all honesty if you play a burst spec with no vit or toughness you cant really complain about thiefs damage because obviously you are trying to do the same thing to them..
its hypocrisy to its fullest.
if you think its so easy change class
Yet when a Thief plays like that, its fine. Because thanks to instant-gapclosers and stealth he will always get the first strike and win. And even in toughness and vitality you still eat a ton of damage.
“you need toughness!”
“got that”
“…and vitality!”
“check”
“trait defensively”
“uhuh”
“go full bunker!”
“yah that worked”
“NERF BUNKERS!”And we already see a ton of people changing classes. Have a look in any starter level zone, or in sPvP. There is a disproportional amount of fresh Thieves.
Have to agree on this. For some reason it is totally ok, that thieves can run around naked, while the rest of us have to be tanks. No other burst-specc can be as survivable nor come close to the burst (I can’t speak of warriors, since I don’t play that class). I dare say that as an absolute in the current state, and I would normally never go around making up absolutes.
There is only one other class, where I can run around naked … which of course is mesmer … and I get openly assaulted, when I beat kitten-thieves hitting my clones, while they are perfectly ok with their AS-softcore-builds insta-gibbing ppl with 3k armor … sigh. No, I don’t mind it, the mentality among some “pro-players” is just … weird.
It is not like the game is unplayable, but if I want to go in pug-groups (of any kind), it is “always” full of thieves, and to survive that I have to go full bunkers (or condition), unless I want to play … thief. Which I don’t. On the positive side, I get to know a lot of bunker/condition-builds.
When I pug on my necro or ele I run a balanced build on both, and do fine against thieves. Anecdotal evidence is insufficient for proper balance.
in all honesty if you play a burst spec with no vit or toughness you cant really complain about thiefs damage because obviously you are trying to do the same thing to them..
its hypocrisy to its fullest.
if you think its so easy change class
Yet when a Thief plays like that, its fine. Because thanks to instant-gapclosers and stealth he will always get the first strike and win. And even in toughness and vitality you still eat a ton of damage.
“you need toughness!”
“got that”
“…and vitality!”
“check”
“trait defensively”
“uhuh”
“go full bunker!”
“yah that worked”
“NERF BUNKERS!”And we already see a ton of people changing classes. Have a look in any starter level zone, or in sPvP. There is a disproportional amount of fresh Thieves.
Have to agree on this. For some reason it is totally ok, that thieves can run around naked, while the rest of us have to be tanks. No other burst-specc can be as survivable nor come close to the burst (I can’t speak of warriors, since I don’t play that class). I dare say that as an absolute in the current state, and I would normally never go around making up absolutes.
There is only one other class, where I can run around naked … which of course is mesmer … and I get openly assaulted, when I beat kitten-thieves hitting my clones, while they are perfectly ok with their AS-softcore-builds insta-gibbing ppl with 3k armor … sigh. No, I don’t mind it, the mentality among some “pro-players” is just … weird.
It is not like the game is unplayable, but if I want to go in pug-groups (of any kind), it is “always” full of thieves, and to survive that I have to go full bunkers (or condition), unless I want to play … thief. Which I don’t. On the positive side, I get to know a lot of bunker/condition-builds.
When I pug on my necro or ele I run a balanced build on both, and do fine against thieves. Anecdotal evidence is insufficient for proper balance.
I also do fairly well on average against thieves, with every class I have played. I also fooled around with a thief just to plan against them. They are far less faceroll than a guardian to play and far more squishy, I main a Ranger and IF I have time to prep I can make short work of MOST standard thieves in a few hits after they try to steal right on top of a spike trap. The smart ones do not fall for this and, well things get interesting.
No class, whatever spec, should be able to hit just about anyone with 10k+ in 1 hit. It’s just absurd.
I agree.
Please nerf Warriors, Guardians, Elementalists, Engineers, Rangers, Mesmers and Necromancers.
As a Thief with 19k HP and 2100+ Toughness, these classes burst me down WAY too fast. I’m talking about less than 3 seconds time. What they trade off for the ability to kill me in such a quick fashion is irrelevant.
The only viable builds that should be allowed in PvP are Bunker builds.
Please make this happen. Thank you.
No class, whatever spec, should be able to hit just about anyone with 10k+ in 1 hit. It’s just absurd.
I agree.
Please nerf Warriors, Guardians, Elementalists, Engineers, Rangers, Mesmers and Necromancers.
As a Thief with 19k HP and 2100+ Toughness, these classes burst me down WAY too fast. I’m talking about less than 3 seconds time. What they trade off for the ability to kill me in such a quick fashion is irrelevant.
The only viable builds that should be allowed in PvP are Bunker builds.
Please make this happen. Thank you.
A guardian killed you with 19k HP in 3 seconds.
Rly.
Did he have a cape and xray vision too?
And you want to nerf rangers?? Seriously?? There are a few bad mofo rangers out there that know what they’re doing but overall I think they’re probably the LEAST qq’d about class in gw2.
(edited by Corebot.2701)
in all honesty if you play a burst spec with no vit or toughness you cant really complain about thiefs damage because obviously you are trying to do the same thing to them..
its hypocrisy to its fullest.
if you think its so easy change class
Ummm, the problem is too many already have thus compounding the problem.
The burden of proof lies with the thieves. Anet has already stated that their burst is ‘something to look at’.
In other words : show us a screenshot that proves thieves are NOT overpowered.
Hard. Isn’t it?
They said they are “keeping an eye on it” ergo giving a statement that will cater to the whiners just to shut some of them up.
The burden of proof doesn’t lie with the thief because we are not making thread after thread stating we are underpowered, you and the whiners like you are however spamming threads and replies of how we are overpowered WITHOUT EVIDENCE
Furthermore when a thief player (like me) makes a thread that would give the whiners EXACTLY what they were whining to have against thieves by redesigning them slightly (AKA 4+ seconds of time to react) and they don’t jump on it, shows that they really have no backing to their whining, and no spine to admit that they are wrong, and they are in fact.. wrong.
Hard to grasp? I guess it is…… oh Darwinism.. where art thou
They said they are “keeping an eye on it” ergo giving a statement that will cater to the whiners just to shut some of them up.
The burden of proof doesn’t lie with the thief because we are not making thread after thread stating we are underpowered, you and the whiners like you are however spamming threads and replies of how we are overpowered WITHOUT EVIDENCE
Furthermore when a thief player (like me) makes a thread that would give the whiners EXACTLY what they were whining to have against thieves by redesigning them slightly (AKA 4+ seconds of time to react) and they don’t jump on it, shows that they really have no backing to their whining, and no spine to admit that they are wrong, and they are in fact.. wrong.
Hard to grasp? I guess it is…… oh Darwinism.. where art thou
this guy and his logic are lol worthy. how far do you have to fall off the stupid tree to be this ridiculous. arguing in favor of low TTK in an mmo proves your an idiot, nuff said.
They said they are “keeping an eye on it” ergo giving a statement that will cater to the whiners just to shut some of them up.
The burden of proof doesn’t lie with the thief because we are not making thread after thread stating we are underpowered, you and the whiners like you are however spamming threads and replies of how we are overpowered WITHOUT EVIDENCE
Furthermore when a thief player (like me) makes a thread that would give the whiners EXACTLY what they were whining to have against thieves by redesigning them slightly (AKA 4+ seconds of time to react) and they don’t jump on it, shows that they really have no backing to their whining, and no spine to admit that they are wrong, and they are in fact.. wrong.
Hard to grasp? I guess it is…… oh Darwinism.. where art thouthis guy and his logic are lol worthy. how far do you have to fall off the stupid tree to be this ridiculous. arguing in favor of low TTK in an mmo proves your an idiot, nuff said.
Stupid because I am playing Guild Wars 2 and not Tank Wars 2?? Guess so.
and the ignorance continues…
They said they are “keeping an eye on it” ergo giving a statement that will cater to the whiners just to shut some of them up.
The burden of proof doesn’t lie with the thief because we are not making thread after thread stating we are underpowered, you and the whiners like you are however spamming threads and replies of how we are overpowered WITHOUT EVIDENCE
Furthermore when a thief player (like me) makes a thread that would give the whiners EXACTLY what they were whining to have against thieves by redesigning them slightly (AKA 4+ seconds of time to react) and they don’t jump on it, shows that they really have no backing to their whining, and no spine to admit that they are wrong, and they are in fact.. wrong.
Hard to grasp? I guess it is…… oh Darwinism.. where art thouthis guy and his logic are lol worthy. how far do you have to fall off the stupid tree to be this ridiculous. arguing in favor of low TTK in an mmo proves your an idiot, nuff said.
Stupid because I am playing Guild Wars 2 and not Tank Wars 2?? Guess so.
and the ignorance continues…
tank wars huh. keep arguing in favor of low TTK because that will definitely benefit GW2 in the same way it did other mmo’s(sarcasm). you should probably broaden your horizons and look at how low TTkittenerally destroyed other MMO’s in the past before making a blatantly bias shield defense on the insane burst that is currently live in gw2.
btw in my post history i have made nerf posts on bunker builds, perma retaliate and the mechanic of retal in general, guardian full heal, mesmer’s, 100b burst, and just about anything else even remotely over the top. i am what you could call an un-biased poster, i will simply tell it as it is. atm 10k backstab autocrits are what it is, and it is completely easy faceroll mode. i rolled a thief just to play around and this was the first build that jumped at me(when i say jumped i mean that i came up with my own use without internet help), steal during CnD animation was discovered shortly after while playing and it became very obvious of how easy mode it is to play a thief. i mained a guardian and i can tell you there is NOTHING easier then playing BS thief. you dont even need to weapon swap for utility when you can just 3 second drop almost anyone with 4 buttons, CnD->steal->signet->backstab=profit.
you have serious l2play and l2life issues bro if you cannot understand this. by all means keep going with the lack of evidence bull, its clearly working for you.
You clearly have ignorance issues “bro” Still waiting on the evidence.
You clearly have ignorance issues “bro” Still waiting on the evidence.
everyone in this thread knows your an idiot for pulling the “lack of evidence” bull. you sound like a government bureaucrat, figures you play thief.
You clearly have ignorance issues “bro” Still waiting on the evidence.
everyone in this thread knows your an idiot for pulling the “lack of evidence” bull. you sound like a government bureaucrat, figures you play thief.
I guess equality and a minimum intelligence expectations about the other side of the argument makes me an idiot and is bull, who knew.
and the ignorance continues, whine on.
You clearly have ignorance issues “bro” Still waiting on the evidence.
everyone in this thread knows your an idiot for pulling the “lack of evidence” bull. you sound like a government bureaucrat, figures you play thief.
I guess equality and a minimum intelligence expectations about the other side of the argument makes me an idiot and is bull, who knew.
and the ignorance continues, whine on.
i have played a thief. it is faceroll, what other side are you referring to? bull kitten argument is bull kitten.
When a “good” thief and not just a bandwagon jumper attacks me I have no chance. Zero. L2P, L2 dodge etc. are worthless advice. A good thief is unbeatable. A crappy thief is merely a handful. I, for one, am all for getting rid of this class. In WoW it was rogues, in SWtoR it was operatives and on and on. The majority of players (I’m guessing) would shed no tears if this style of class was just done away with. Only mages should be able to invis-because the use MAGIC. A thief striking from the shadows would be ok but tell me what the hell are they hiding behind in an open field? A blade of grass? Stealth by definition does not mean invisible. In Baldurs Gate (old old game) your thief had to stay in the shadows to be effective. Sounds right to me.
You clearly have ignorance issues “bro” Still waiting on the evidence.
everyone in this thread knows your an idiot for pulling the “lack of evidence” bull. you sound like a government bureaucrat, figures you play thief.
I guess equality and a minimum intelligence expectations about the other side of the argument makes me an idiot and is bull, who knew.
and the ignorance continues, whine on.
i have played a thief. it is faceroll, what other side are you referring to? bull kitten argument is bull kitten.
Proof? 0
Supporting evidence? 0
Valid argument? 0
Childish tantrum? Check
Ignorance continues
You clearly have ignorance issues “bro” Still waiting on the evidence.
everyone in this thread knows your an idiot for pulling the “lack of evidence” bull. you sound like a government bureaucrat, figures you play thief.
I guess equality and a minimum intelligence expectations about the other side of the argument makes me an idiot and is bull, who knew.
and the ignorance continues, whine on.
i have played a thief. it is faceroll, what other side are you referring to? bull kitten argument is bull kitten.
Proof? 0
Supporting evidence? 0
Valid argument? 0
Childish tantrum? Check
Ignorance continues
ignored completely valid screenshots? check
ignored completely valid videos? check
proof of an idiot? check
Proof? 0
Supporting evidence? 0
Valid argument? 0
Childish tantrum? Check
Ignorance continues
Fits your posts perfectly.
lets take a look at your post history to put things in perspective.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/wvwvw-thieves-listen-up
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-burst-damage-really-this-bad
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/A-redesign
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Thieves-UNITE-Starting-an-organized-wvwvw-thief-guild-server-tbd
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/So-what-if-the-Backstab-build-is-not-nerfed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Your-game-is-broken-Toughness-vs-burst
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Dagger-Storm-Immobilize-interaction
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Yeah-I-get-they-re-assassins-but-really
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Let-s-see-some-thief-picsis anyone else noticing a trend? like i said knyx your ENTIRE life is lol worthy.
You’re implying what someone mains mean anything.
Tip: People who “main” a class mean they play that class the most. Not that they only play that class.
lets take a look at your post history to put things in perspective.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/wvwvw-thieves-listen-up
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-burst-damage-really-this-bad
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/A-redesign
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Thieves-UNITE-Starting-an-organized-wvwvw-thief-guild-server-tbd
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/So-what-if-the-Backstab-build-is-not-nerfed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Your-game-is-broken-Toughness-vs-burst
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Dagger-Storm-Immobilize-interaction
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Yeah-I-get-they-re-assassins-but-really
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Let-s-see-some-thief-picsis anyone else noticing a trend? like i said knyx your ENTIRE life is lol worthy.
You’re implying what someone mains mean anything.
Tip: People who “main” a class mean they play that class the most. Not that they only play that class.
that wasnt the point. i was pointing out how bias his PoV is towards the thief class as is evident by his post history. i main a guardian, take a look at my post history how often i say guards should be nerfed. fanbois gonna be fanbois is the underlying point if you didnt get it.
on a side note i play mesmer more then my “main” in spvp, and guess what? they should be nerfed to LOLOL. warriors also make it on my nerf list due to the high burst of 100b.
lets take a look at your post history to put things in perspective.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/wvwvw-thieves-listen-up
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-burst-damage-really-this-bad
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/A-redesign
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Thieves-UNITE-Starting-an-organized-wvwvw-thief-guild-server-tbd
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/So-what-if-the-Backstab-build-is-not-nerfed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Your-game-is-broken-Toughness-vs-burst
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Dagger-Storm-Immobilize-interaction
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Yeah-I-get-they-re-assassins-but-really
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Let-s-see-some-thief-picsis anyone else noticing a trend? like i said knyx your ENTIRE life is lol worthy.
You’re implying what someone mains mean anything.
Tip: People who “main” a class mean they play that class the most. Not that they only play that class.
that wasnt the point. i was pointing out how bias his PoV is towards the thief class as is evident by his post history. i main a guardian, take a look at my post history how often i say guards should be nerfed. fanbois gonna be fanbois is the underlying point if you didnt get it.
on a side note i play mesmer more then my “main” in spvp, and guess what? they should be nerfed to LOLOL. warriors also make it on my nerf list due to the high burst of 100b.
Yes very bias, Expecting the same evidence I have provided in the past, expecting the same VALID arguments I present. Expecting valid and thought out alternatives to be posted instead of meaningless whining that gets shut down with a simple “L2P”
And your ignorance, continues.
Guild Wars 2 $60
Whiners facepalming themselves on the forums, Priceless
For everything else there is….infraction inc
You won’t get it, Knyx. Facts are not valued on this board, nor do several people know what a fact is… or math.
BTW, I play Engineer and have no problem with Thieves. 1v1 I kill them much more often than they kill me. I’m not saying that to brag, I’m a mediocre to upper-mediocre player, but I’m tired of hearing that only thieves defend thieves. It’s not true… and honestly, I could care less if they get nerfed, I just hate to see an ignorant, mouthy flashmob ever get what they want.
Jumzi (Ranger), Tarnished Coast
You won’t get it, Knyx. Facts are not valued on this board, nor do several people know what a fact is… or math.
BTW, I play Engineer and have no problem with Thieves. 1v1 I kill them much more often than they kill me. I’m not saying that to brag, I’m a mediocre to upper-mediocre player, but I’m tired of hearing that only thieves defend thieves. It’s not true… and honestly, I could care less if they get nerfed, I just hate to see an ignorant, mouthy flashmob ever get what they want.
QFT. Right now I think the actual best professions to play are engineers, mesmers, and warriors in terms of fun. Guardians are a little dull and seem turtle based, and elementalists really need some buffs or they should get weapon switching something just seems a little off on them maybe it’s that the attunements don’t vary as much as to make up the disadvantage of not having another weapon set.
Thieves are a one trick pony right now and need some changes. Rangers similar deal as I’ve found only traps and bleed builds to be very effective. Necros are bug ridden and have only two viable builds atm.
You won’t get it, Knyx. Facts are not valued on this board, nor do several people know what a fact is… or math.
BTW, I play Engineer and have no problem with Thieves. 1v1 I kill them much more often than they kill me. I’m not saying that to brag, I’m a mediocre to upper-mediocre player, but I’m tired of hearing that only thieves defend thieves. It’s not true… and honestly, I could care less if they get nerfed, I just hate to see an ignorant, mouthy flashmob ever get what they want.
in case you didnt realize due to your serious mental inadequacies, facts have been collected, posted, and dismissed by the thief fanbois.
i may be a mouthy flashmob, but ignorant is doubtful considering I HAVE PLAYED A THIEF in spvp and completely dominated due to its sheer lack of skill requirement and 2 shot capability.
are you going to refute the dozens of 10k+ damage backstab screenshots, or the videos demonstrating 2 shot capabilities of thiefs? didnt think so, bads gonna be bads.
lets take a look at your post history to put things in perspective.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/wvwvw-thieves-listen-up
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-burst-damage-really-this-bad
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/A-redesign
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Thieves-UNITE-Starting-an-organized-wvwvw-thief-guild-server-tbd
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/So-what-if-the-Backstab-build-is-not-nerfed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Your-game-is-broken-Toughness-vs-burst
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Dagger-Storm-Immobilize-interaction
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Yeah-I-get-they-re-assassins-but-really
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Let-s-see-some-thief-picsis anyone else noticing a trend? like i said knyx your ENTIRE life is lol worthy.
You’re implying what someone mains mean anything.
Tip: People who “main” a class mean they play that class the most. Not that they only play that class.
that wasnt the point. i was pointing out how bias his PoV is towards the thief class as is evident by his post history. i main a guardian, take a look at my post history how often i say guards should be nerfed. fanbois gonna be fanbois is the underlying point if you didnt get it.
on a side note i play mesmer more then my “main” in spvp, and guess what? they should be nerfed to LOLOL. warriors also make it on my nerf list due to the high burst of 100b.
shut down with a simple “L2P”
literally the only thing that has been shutdown is your ability to think on the level of a basic primate.
You won’t get it, Knyx. Facts are not valued on this board, nor do several people know what a fact is… or math.
BTW, I play Engineer and have no problem with Thieves. 1v1 I kill them much more often than they kill me. I’m not saying that to brag, I’m a mediocre to upper-mediocre player, but I’m tired of hearing that only thieves defend thieves. It’s not true… and honestly, I could care less if they get nerfed, I just hate to see an ignorant, mouthy flashmob ever get what they want.
in case you didnt realize due to your serious mental inadequacies, facts have been collected, posted, and dismissed by the thief fanbois.
i may be a mouthy flashmob, but ignorant is doubtful considering I HAVE PLAYED A THIEF in spvp and completely dominated due to its sheer lack of skill requirement and 2 shot capability.
are you going to refute the dozens of 10k+ damage backstab screenshots, or the videos demonstrating 2 shot capabilities of thiefs? didnt think so, bads gonna be bads.
lol…
Still awaiting proof of you playing a thief.
Still awaiting valid evidence. So far your screenshots AND videos have been disproven, I already explained why MULTIPLE times, and so have others. Need me to again sonny?
——-
Correct, bads will be bad. The inept will be inept. The unwilling to adapt, will still be unwilling.
I think we just covered your resume.
Next
You won’t get it, Knyx. Facts are not valued on this board, nor do several people know what a fact is… or math.
BTW, I play Engineer and have no problem with Thieves. 1v1 I kill them much more often than they kill me. I’m not saying that to brag, I’m a mediocre to upper-mediocre player, but I’m tired of hearing that only thieves defend thieves. It’s not true… and honestly, I could care less if they get nerfed, I just hate to see an ignorant, mouthy flashmob ever get what they want.
in case you didnt realize due to your serious mental inadequacies, facts have been collected, posted, and dismissed by the thief fanbois.
i may be a mouthy flashmob, but ignorant is doubtful considering I HAVE PLAYED A THIEF in spvp and completely dominated due to its sheer lack of skill requirement and 2 shot capability.
are you going to refute the dozens of 10k+ damage backstab screenshots, or the videos demonstrating 2 shot capabilities of thiefs? didnt think so, bads gonna be bads.
Still awaiting proof of you playing a thief.
will the screen shot of my thief simply be dismissed, like the 10000000000000000 screens of 10k+ damage 1 hit backstabs? yea i thought so, bads gonna be bads.