Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

I really want to hear your opinion on this.

I hate when people just call OP all the things with no reason but L2P.

So i honestly ask to you all.

Is engineer OP as i feel it on SPVP or is just that is a hard counter to my profession (thief)?

Does any other person with a different profession than mine find engis a easy target?

Hi. Thank you for asking the question this way instead or crying “ENGI OP NERF PLZ !” in the profession balance subforum. I play both thief and engineer and yes, zerker thieves are the easiest matchup for a condition engineer. Even if the engineer is less skilled than you are, chances are he will win in a 1v1. I won’t discuss here whether the turret build needs to be tuned down, but there’s really not much you can do against a condition engineer. Try to use short bow and don’t ever chase them with heart seeker, you’ll just take all their bombs/grenades. Don’t feel sad though : these engineers are having a hard time every time they see a condi necro.

s/d thief does pretty good against engi

SoLeciTO.3490:

Hi all,

I really want to hear your opinion on this.

I hate when people just call OP all the things with no reason but L2P.

So i honestly ask to you all.

Is engineer OP as i feel it on SPVP or is just that is a hard counter to my profession (thief)?

Does any other person with a different profession than mine find engis a easy target?

First, I’ll start by saying that I play all professions equally and they’re all my favorites. That being said, no, engi is not OP. There are excellent players out there, and if you run into one of them on any profession, you will feel like their profession is OP due to the skill gap.

Some builds will also hard-counter other builds. But, if you take a minute to figure out a few different builds (e.g. condi, bunker, berserker, AI, etc) and change to a different build after getting steamrolled, you’ll likely see yourself doing much better barring a major skill gap between you and the opponent.

Edit: I also want to discourage the broad sweeping statements like “X class is OP” since odds are that maybe one of their builds hard counters what you are playing, but your build hard counters some of their builds as well. E.g. A turret bunker engi might destroy you on point, but a flamethrower berserker engi will die in a backstab + HS + steal combo.

Hi all and thanks for your thoughts.

I’m a decent player, not even close to be a pro, but when i say i have a hard time against engis in not only in 1v1 situation . . .

. . . the main thing is how much they can bring to a team.

I have seen a lot of 4 or 5 engi teams now days . . . and it is just impossible to us to win the match.

Yesterday i had a 4 ranger team, and they could not make a thing to win . . .

For example what would you do to a team compose of 5 engis? i mean a strategy to cap a point?

Don’t know maybe i just need more practice with my team.

My necro catches and bottles engi tears and stores them next to lollypops stolen from babies and kitten skulls

It’s less that it’s too strong and more that it’s very frustrating to play against and very forgiving to play as. The only spec that had consummate risk-reward was pre-nerfed HGH (with three elixirs plus heal) and even that was arguable since you could ledge cheese.

Kharr.5746:

SoLeciTO.3490:

Hi all,

I really want to hear your opinion on this.

I hate when people just call OP all the things with no reason but L2P.

So i honestly ask to you all.

Is engineer OP as i feel it on SPVP or is just that is a hard counter to my profession (thief)?

Does any other person with a different profession than mine find engis a easy target?

First, I’ll start by saying that I play all professions equally and they’re all my favorites. That being said, no, engi is not OP. There are excellent players out there, and if you run into one of them on any profession, you will feel like their profession is OP due to the skill gap.

Some builds will also hard-counter other builds. But, if you take a minute to figure out a few different builds (e.g. condi, bunker, berserker, AI, etc) and change to a different build after getting steamrolled, you’ll likely see yourself doing much better barring a major skill gap between you and the opponent.

Edit: I also want to discourage the broad sweeping statements like “X class is OP” since odds are that maybe one of their builds hard counters what you are playing, but your build hard counters some of their builds as well. E.g. A turret bunker engi might destroy you on point, but a flamethrower berserker engi will die in a backstab + HS + steal combo.

I agree with you, but the same has been said for thieves since beta.
“Thieves OP, pls Nerf”
Still this didn’t stop A-Net from nerfing us kitten every balance patch

the highlight of my last pvp session was oneshotting two people at the same time with my SD zerker engi XD

but nope, engis are fair and balanced!

The only match-up anyone has a legit reason for kittening, imo, is Necro vs Engie. Even then, that match-up probably won’t -and most likely shouldn’t- change. All other complaints about other match-ups are nowhere near the level of hard-counter necro vs engie is.

OP, your problem is Soloque-itis. Everyone wants to play THEIR class, and doesn’t really want to play for the team. It’s tough luck, and you will most likely get verbal abuse by windbags who ride on the tailwind of others when you try to convince your teammates to switch their class.

Turret engy is, one of my friends was playing a bunch of other engineer builds, but when he went turret engy, he told me he won massive amount of games in a row on solo que.

All you do is go far, set up camp, own people, win games. Isn’t that hard to play a turret engy. Normally what this leads to, is you winning 1v1 because most people that go home right away are newbs, and because you have far point the other team starts to get frustrated because they don’t have home and start blaming people. Than eventually they give up and call for turret op, because in reality turret engy as far point attacker is pretty op.

Back then you use to have sumo engies that would sumo for the far point node, and wouldn’t be able to kill you and you wouldn’t be able to kill them. But Anet decided, hey lets make it easier, no skills turrets, you not only get the node but you also kill the person trying to defend it, does good in 1v2 situations as well by annoying the heck out of the other players. Sumo engy required skill, but got nerfed and replaced with a more skilless way to attack far point instead and at higher success rates, the turret engy.

Oh they well get nerfed and balance out, but hey, you mine as well go turret engy and increase your win ratio while it still lasts. Doesn’t really require any skills at all or in depth learning to be good at it. Basically what this is like, a broken questline that gives out too much money that everybody farms. Oh it will get fixed sometime or later but mine as well join the masses of people taking advantage of it. Go turret engy before time runs out and they get wacked with a nerf gun.

uberkingkong.8041:

Turret engy is, one of my friends was playing a bunch of other engineer builds, but when he went turret engy, he told me he won massive amount of games in a row on solo que.

All you do is go far, set up camp, own people, win games. Isn’t that hard to play a turret engy. Normally what this leads to, is you winning 1v1 because most people that go home right away are newbs, and because you have far point the other team starts to get frustrated because they don’t have home and start blaming people. Than eventually they give up and call for turret op, because in reality turret engy as far point attacker is pretty op.

Back then you use to have sumo engies that would sumo for the far point node, and wouldn’t be able to kill you and you wouldn’t be able to kill them. But Anet decided, hey lets make it easier, no skills turrets, you not only get the node but you also kill the person trying to defend it, does good in 1v2 situations as well by annoying the heck out of the other players. Sumo engy required skill, but got nerfed and replaced with a more skilless way to attack far point instead and at higher success rates, the turret engy.

Oh they well get nerfed and balance out, but hey, you mine as well go turret engy and increase your win ratio while it still lasts. Doesn’t really require any skills at all or in depth learning to be good at it. Basically what this is like, a broken questline that gives out too much money that everybody farms. Oh it will get fixed sometime or later but mine as well join the masses of people taking advantage of it. Go turret engy before time runs out and they get wacked with a nerf gun.

Pretty much this. Turret engis might not be effective against a coordinated team, but they do wreck solo queue and at least half of team queue. They definitely need a nerf. Let’s hope with the new change in PvP leadership, we finally see some more frequent balance updates.

style.6173:

uberkingkong.8041:

Turret engy is, one of my friends was playing a bunch of other engineer builds, but when he went turret engy, he told me he won massive amount of games in a row on solo que.

All you do is go far, set up camp, own people, win games. Isn’t that hard to play a turret engy. Normally what this leads to, is you winning 1v1 because most people that go home right away are newbs, and because you have far point the other team starts to get frustrated because they don’t have home and start blaming people. Than eventually they give up and call for turret op, because in reality turret engy as far point attacker is pretty op.

Back then you use to have sumo engies that would sumo for the far point node, and wouldn’t be able to kill you and you wouldn’t be able to kill them. But Anet decided, hey lets make it easier, no skills turrets, you not only get the node but you also kill the person trying to defend it, does good in 1v2 situations as well by annoying the heck out of the other players. Sumo engy required skill, but got nerfed and replaced with a more skilless way to attack far point instead and at higher success rates, the turret engy.

Oh they well get nerfed and balance out, but hey, you mine as well go turret engy and increase your win ratio while it still lasts. Doesn’t really require any skills at all or in depth learning to be good at it. Basically what this is like, a broken questline that gives out too much money that everybody farms. Oh it will get fixed sometime or later but mine as well join the masses of people taking advantage of it. Go turret engy before time runs out and they get wacked with a nerf gun.

Pretty much this. Turret engis might not be effective against a coordinated team, but they do wreck solo queue and at least half of team queue. They definitely need a nerf. Let’s hope with the new change in PvP leadership, we finally see some more frequent balance updates.

Hey there…. just started playing turret engi in spvp…. and I’d like to point out a few things:

I used to always get wrecked by turret engineers until I played as one… and now I make a complete mockery of them on any profession.

If an engineer sacrifices all of his utility skills and traits to make his turrets stronger, he will not be doing very much damage with his actual weapon, and will be doing practically 0 damage without his turrets.

People don’t know how to fight against a turret engineer, and end up losing due to ignorance.

You have to take out the turrets (at least some of them) before diving headfirst onto a point where an engineer has his turrets.

A well placed Elementalist AoE, Ranger Barrage, Necromancer Life Transfer, etc. can easily destroy (if not severely damage) ALL of a turret engineer’s turrets.

If you want to know which turret to target first… its the rocket turret.

Turret engineer is a build that melts noobs, and doesn’t scare experienced players.
Without the turrets, the engineer is a sitting duck, and taking out the turrets should be your first priority.

Also…. if you want to complain about something that needs a nerf…. when I was running turret engi, I don’t recall melting faces at 1500 range.

Maybe you should be looking to aim the nerf bat elsewhere.

The conquest-only game mode makes turret engi very strong. If there was a capture a flag mode or something in the mix of possible games the class might not be. Kit engi is strong but not as strong as necro or ele and can be bursted down by a mesmer or theif. The stale game type makes this play-style very strong in SoloQ and Hotjoin. I would much rather see them add to the game diversity than simply gut particular playstyles.

Just dodge Incendiary Powder and you’ll be fine ^.^

TheBlackLeech.9360:

style.6173:

uberkingkong.8041:

Turret engy is, one of my friends was playing a bunch of other engineer builds, but when he went turret engy, he told me he won massive amount of games in a row on solo que.

All you do is go far, set up camp, own people, win games. Isn’t that hard to play a turret engy. Normally what this leads to, is you winning 1v1 because most people that go home right away are newbs, and because you have far point the other team starts to get frustrated because they don’t have home and start blaming people. Than eventually they give up and call for turret op, because in reality turret engy as far point attacker is pretty op.

Back then you use to have sumo engies that would sumo for the far point node, and wouldn’t be able to kill you and you wouldn’t be able to kill them. But Anet decided, hey lets make it easier, no skills turrets, you not only get the node but you also kill the person trying to defend it, does good in 1v2 situations as well by annoying the heck out of the other players. Sumo engy required skill, but got nerfed and replaced with a more skilless way to attack far point instead and at higher success rates, the turret engy.

Oh they well get nerfed and balance out, but hey, you mine as well go turret engy and increase your win ratio while it still lasts. Doesn’t really require any skills at all or in depth learning to be good at it. Basically what this is like, a broken questline that gives out too much money that everybody farms. Oh it will get fixed sometime or later but mine as well join the masses of people taking advantage of it. Go turret engy before time runs out and they get wacked with a nerf gun.

Pretty much this. Turret engis might not be effective against a coordinated team, but they do wreck solo queue and at least half of team queue. They definitely need a nerf. Let’s hope with the new change in PvP leadership, we finally see some more frequent balance updates.

Hey there…. just started playing turret engi in spvp…. and I’d like to point out a few things:

I used to always get wrecked by turret engineers until I played as one… and now I make a complete mockery of them on any profession.

If an engineer sacrifices all of his utility skills and traits to make his turrets stronger, he will not be doing very much damage with his actual weapon, and will be doing practically 0 damage without his turrets.

People don’t know how to fight against a turret engineer, and end up losing due to ignorance.

You have to take out the turrets (at least some of them) before diving headfirst onto a point where an engineer has his turrets.

A well placed Elementalist AoE, Ranger Barrage, Necromancer Life Transfer, etc. can easily destroy (if not severely damage) ALL of a turret engineer’s turrets.

If you want to know which turret to target first… its the rocket turret.

Turret engineer is a build that melts noobs, and doesn’t scare experienced players.
Without the turrets, the engineer is a sitting duck, and taking out the turrets should be your first priority.

Also…. if you want to complain about something that needs a nerf…. when I was running turret engi, I don’t recall melting faces at 1500 range.

Maybe you should be looking to aim the nerf bat elsewhere.

Boy you dumb,

if you really did play turret engy, you played it wrong dude, you gotta go far, you don’t goto mid and get reckt by all AE dmg.

Thing is turret engy is the counter to those that play bunker, and by going far you counter those bunker classes hard. You mentioned ele doing AE damage??? I’m pretty sure no staff ele is going to bunker home point, pretty dang sure they going to mid and rain terror over there instead.

Also you guys mention thieves owning turret engy? Again, pretty sure no thief is going to go bunker home. Hence why turret engy wins again.

What will happen is that thief or that ele will call whoever is at home a newb to losing to a turret engy and there team will get all heated with one another that they lose the game, hence what happens to most games when a team faces a team with a turret engy that has a clue of how to play.

All in all, those classes that reckt turret engies, wont even be near the turret engy. Turret engies take so much work to kill, that in process of killing them, your team is hurting elsewhere. If you waste your AE damage dealer on that turret guy, the team is going to be lacking damage at the midfight. The only games that the turret engy loses is the games where the other team is clearly better than the team with the turret engy.

I think you should read this thread instead “Ëngineer-is-highly-comical”https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Engineer-is-highly-comical/first

Just to have a fair idea. xD

Celestial engis are over the top (Like all celestial specs ofc) but you can rek them pretty easily with condi ranger with entangle

I play DD/staff necro a lot lately and im able to kill those condi engis.
Since i have 2 skills to give them their own conditions back.
It’s pretty cool to see them get burned by their own skills.
Everyone knows engineers lack condi removal.

Sf ele also very good against engi

uberkingkong.8041:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Hey there…. just started playing turret engi in spvp…. and I’d like to point out a few things:

I used to always get wrecked by turret engineers until I played as one… and now I make a complete mockery of them on any profession.

If an engineer sacrifices all of his utility skills and traits to make his turrets stronger, he will not be doing very much damage with his actual weapon, and will be doing practically 0 damage without his turrets.

People don’t know how to fight against a turret engineer, and end up losing due to ignorance.

You have to take out the turrets (at least some of them) before diving headfirst onto a point where an engineer has his turrets.

A well placed Elementalist AoE, Ranger Barrage, Necromancer Life Transfer, etc. can easily destroy (if not severely damage) ALL of a turret engineer’s turrets.

If you want to know which turret to target first… its the rocket turret.

Turret engineer is a build that melts noobs, and doesn’t scare experienced players.
Without the turrets, the engineer is a sitting duck, and taking out the turrets should be your first priority.

Also…. if you want to complain about something that needs a nerf…. when I was running turret engi, I don’t recall melting faces at 1500 range.

Maybe you should be looking to aim the nerf bat elsewhere.

Boy you dumb,

if you really did play turret engy, you played it wrong dude, you gotta go far, you don’t goto mid and get reckt by all AE dmg.

Thing is turret engy is the counter to those that play bunker, and by going far you counter those bunker classes hard. You mentioned ele doing AE damage??? I’m pretty sure no staff ele is going to bunker home point, pretty dang sure they going to mid and rain terror over there instead.

Also you guys mention thieves owning turret engy? Again, pretty sure no thief is going to go bunker home. Hence why turret engy wins again.

What will happen is that thief or that ele will call whoever is at home a newb to losing to a turret engy and there team will get all heated with one another that they lose the game, hence what happens to most games when a team faces a team with a turret engy that has a clue of how to play.

All in all, those classes that reckt turret engies, wont even be near the turret engy. Turret engies take so much work to kill, that in process of killing them, your team is hurting elsewhere. If you waste your AE damage dealer on that turret guy, the team is going to be lacking damage at the midfight. The only games that the turret engy loses is the games where the other team is clearly better than the team with the turret engy.

Idk what game you are playing…. but people rotate all the time in pvp matches.

Every time someone dies, they usually rotate home to make sure their point is ok/to cap the point on respawn.

Anyone in the match is capable of attacking/defending their team’s home point.

You are never “safe” just because you go to far.

That is absurd.

Also…. the ONLY time a bunker class will NOT beat a turret engi, is if he just goes and stands on a point, flails around, and doesn’t focus on any turrets.

IMHO bunkers are the class MOST SUITED for fighting a turret engineer. They can take more damage, and have stability/stunbreaks at their disposal. They don’t have to be cautious about approaching a point covered in turrets, provided they know to attack the turrets first, and don’t immediately focus on capping/decapping vs. the engineer.

Sorel.4870:

Hi. Thank you for asking the question this way instead or crying “ENGI OP NERF PLZ !” in the profession balance subforum. I play both thief and engineer and yes, zerker thieves are the easiest matchup for a condition engineer. Even if the engineer is less skilled than you are, chances are he will win in a 1v1. I won’t discuss here whether the turret build needs to be tuned down, but there’s really not much you can do against a condition engineer. Try to use short bow and don’t ever chase them with heart seeker, you’ll just take all their bombs/grenades. Don’t feel sad though : these engineers are having a hard time every time they see a condi necro.

STOP! You are making too much sense!

I tried before to take turrets but they have a lot of HP.

Even with S/P AOE fast damage cannot take them fast before i get wrecked by the engi.

If i can manage to take the turrets down, i still have to fight the engi, of course with full HP.

According to what i read, it seems then that it is just a hard counter to thieves.

I don’t know, I was playing my ranger on tpvp last night, and actually 1v1d a turret engi camping on far (their home) several times, and won each time. Either that engi wasn’t very good (which I highly suspect) or I am better then I thought (which is extremely doubtful) . With LB and read the wind trait, you can snip his turrets without being in any danger from them. In doing so, it drew out the engi from all his turrets, and I was able to take him out fairly easily after that. So maybe that was his mistake for leaving the protection of his turrets, but either way I learned that it’s better to stay back and take out turrets if you can before jumping in for a close kill. Yeah they can be difficult and frustrating, but charging headlong into the frey is going to get you killed every times. Just need to come up with a better strategy…

SoLeciTO.3490:

I tried before to take turrets but they have a lot of HP.

Even with S/P AOE fast damage cannot take them fast before i get wrecked by the engi.

If i can manage to take the turrets down, i still have to fight the engi, of course with full HP.

According to what i read, it seems then that it is just a hard counter to thieves.

I’ll admit that turret engis are a huge pain when I play thief, but here are some tips that might help.

1) Shortbow from a distance – #1 will bounce between nearby turrets and the engi, dealing plenty of damage. Cluster bomb also works well if they’re close together. It’s important to “dance” (i.e., side-step left/right continuously) while firing. By doing this, you can avoid every projectile from the engi and turrets at 900 distance. Turrets can’t move so they will die.

2) Scorpion wire can pull an engi off point, and can’t be seen or dodged if you do it from stealth. Depending on the point, you can often pull the engi to an awkward location and start stabbing away.

3) If the engi uses his elite (supply crate). Disengage and go somewhere else. He just wasted a 3 minute cooldown. Come back and stab him in the face after 60s when it has expired and is on cooldown.

4) Generally speaking, you shouldn’t be trying to take a point solo vs any bunker build since teammates will arrive before you get the decap/cap. If you’re fighting something that doesn’t look like it will die quickly, disengage and go support your team. Come back with a friend after you’ve won the 5v4 battle on the rest of the map.

Relentliss.2170:

The conquest-only game mode makes turret engi very strong. If there was a capture a flag mode or something in the mix of possible games the class might not be. Kit engi is strong but not as strong as necro or ele and can be bursted down by a mesmer or theif. The stale game type makes this play-style very strong in SoloQ and Hotjoin. I would much rather see them add to the game diversity than simply gut particular playstyles.

^Exactly,if new modes were present a lot of QQ threads wouldn’t be here and turret engi is only for conquest. This apply to other specs as well.

You gotta realize that also, sometimes a team will just tell everyone “hey guys don’t go near, its a waste of time, just focus mid and far”

You know why that happens? Mostly due to a turret engy rekting everyone at near and able to sustain in 1v2 fights long enough at far that there team wins the mid and home fights.

I hear this stuff about Guardians not in the NA meta anymore. Want to know why?
Because bunker guardian can sustain in 1v1 1v2 fights
However turret engy can sustain AND decap the node on 1v1 1v2 fights. Also more likely to finish someone in 1v1 fights, while guardian is just a big meat shield, no real offensive from a bunker guardian.

Also the fact that its hard to train someone to be a good guardian like Stunningstyles and Davinci got Banned, but for a turret engy, minimal training involved.

Engineers just need a few more counters, necros are a good start, but I think a few other classes could be made to be a little stronger against them (not as strong as necros are currently which isn’t nearly as strong as engi’s would have you think).

zapv.8051:

Engineers just need a few more counters, necros are a good start, but I think a few other classes could be made to be a little stronger against them (not as strong as necros are currently which isn’t nearly as strong as engi’s would have you think).

It does have counters sf ele, condition ranger, necro. Also condi warrior, staff ele, dd ele mesmer is 50/50. It has be said alot but engi is more susceptible to focus fire due to lack of condition removal, stability and stun breaks.

I have also noticed that most of the players complaining are complaining about turrets engi and they are generally thief mains. So it happen engi counters thief in spvp only because of conquest mode. In wvw there are like no complaints about engi roaming or zerging.

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

If I may be so bold to offer a suggestion, I would recommend turning rifle 4 into a 2s daze and remove the self CC and well as keep the condi clear. I think this will still allow the fluid combat that gw2 players are used to. It would also prevent both players from being CC’d to incredible degrees which is really fustrating to watch.

Nerfing a skill because you personally find it annoying is a terrible idea. The rifle is fine.

I also think that overcharged shot should be changed. 2s daze is too weak since the launch is part of your defense (no blind from pistol and no defense from shield). Imo rifle 4 should have a better tell. Something like FT 3 (was instant, now has the same animation as pin down).

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

If I may be so bold to offer a suggestion, I would recommend turning rifle 4 into a 2s daze and remove the self CC and well as keep the condi clear. I think this will still allow the fluid combat that gw2 players are used to. It would also prevent both players from being CC’d to incredible degrees which is really fustrating to watch.

I disagree rifle in its current form is fine the knock back is really the main reason to take rifle over pistol/shield. Also I still think pistol/shield is superior in most circumstances.

vincecontix.1264:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

If I may be so bold to offer a suggestion, I would recommend turning rifle 4 into a 2s daze and remove the self CC and well as keep the condi clear. I think this will still allow the fluid combat that gw2 players are used to. It would also prevent both players from being CC’d to incredible degrees which is really fustrating to watch.

I disagree rifle in its current form is fine the knock back is really the main reason to take rifle over pistol/shield. Also I still think pistol/shield is superior in most circumstances.

You just proved OE point.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

If I may be so bold to offer a suggestion, I would recommend turning rifle 4 into a 2s daze and remove the self CC and well as keep the condi clear. I think this will still allow the fluid combat that gw2 players are used to. It would also prevent both players from being CC’d to incredible degrees which is really fustrating to watch.

Great way to send the Rifle to the scrap heap, and have another 2 years of P/S & P/P at competitive levels.

No overcharge shot KD: No reliable way to land both hits of throw wrench. Net Shot accuracy would go way down, because currently when people are laying the hell still, it is actually not likely to see it fly into the horizon, obstructed.

You say Rifle is lower skill than P/P?

I call bull on that. From someone who has played both over the years, and tends to favor Rifle, (opposite of you) P/P rabid is just 5-4-3-2. And has more emphasis on Incendiary Powder

You’ve said it yourself many times. You hate Cele Rifle compared to Rabid P/P because the damage is so unreliable. Do you know why that is? Because your Incendiary Powder does 2188 damage on Rifle builds. Compared to P/P builds, which does 4408, it’s literally relying on Incendiary Powder half as much.

Rabid basically goes in, empties a clip of pistol skills into the target, and then empties a clip of grenades into the target. When you’re just relentlessly chaining skills together, P/P builds are doing crazy Incendiary Powder damage.

With Cele Rifle, it’s easier to aim on knocked down enemies, which I think is your main angle, because you feel aiming grenades on moving enemies makes P/P builds skillful. Rifle builds do that too. Meanwhile, stunbreaking the overcharge shot ruins the whole combo. Can you predict and avoid the P/P build’s pressure in the same way, by combo breaking? Hell no. The build’s all in on Incendiary Powder and you just get melted.

P/P skills, especially the 2 and 3 are fire and forget. Rifle skills are much more fickle, and take more positioning and baiting for it to be land-able. If you throw Jump Shot, or Net Shot at someone who’s not already set up, you’re gonna have a bad day.

I think Rifle is not the reason for Engi QQ. Engineers using Rifle in SoloQ miss every skill and get dunked. I think Incendiary Powder and Turret pressure are more accurate.

Mrbig.8019:

vincecontix.1264:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

If I may be so bold to offer a suggestion, I would recommend turning rifle 4 into a 2s daze and remove the self CC and well as keep the condi clear. I think this will still allow the fluid combat that gw2 players are used to. It would also prevent both players from being CC’d to incredible degrees which is really fustrating to watch.

I disagree rifle in its current form is fine *the knock back is really the main reason to take rifle over pistol/shield.* Also I still think pistol/shield is superior in most circumstances.

You just proved OE point.

^^^what the Chaith.8256 said.

Liewec.2896:

the highlight of my last pvp session was oneshotting two people at the same time with my SD zerker engi XD

but nope, engis are fair and balanced!

Rofl dat is epic

OE, just because you don’t use rifle doesn’t mean it should be used as the scapegoat to quell the claims of “Engi OP”. I find it odd that you even say that, after seeing you fail to find success on power builds time and time again on stream. Also, well said Chaith.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

This is just a lie.

Overcharged shot has a CD of 15 secs, kb distance 450.

Warriors have the rifle butt skill that doesn’t CC the user.
The cooldown is 12, and deals more damage, kb distance 400.

Rangers, have a longbow skill that doesnt cc the user, does more damage, has the potential to send enemies flying to a distance of 600, and has a cooldown of 12.

And lets not forget about traited Necromancers (and Ranger pets) and their ability for fear people for ages.

You are just crying.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

This is just a lie.

Overcharged shot has a CD of 15 secs, kb distance 450.

Warriors have the rifle butt skill that doesn’t CC the user.
The cooldown is 12, and deals more damage, kb distance 400.

Rangers, have a longbow skill that doesnt cc the user, does more damage, has the potential to send enemies flying to a distance of 600, and has a cooldown of 12.

And lets not forget about traited Necromancers (and Ranger pets) and their ability for fear people for ages.

You are just crying.

Launch is generally more powerful than knockback, due longer time needed to get up, but overcharged shot has a range of 400 and point black shot is 900. Both are single target, but rifle butt, which is melee range, can affect up to 3 targets. All work well as interrupts and stability counters them all.

These all pale in comparison with warrior hammer burst skill, earthshaker:
1.25 dmg multiplier, 600 leap, 240 radius, blast finisher, 2 second AoE stun with under 10 s cooldown!!

WvWvW meta has been dominated by hammer warriors and especially the earthshaker skill since Autumn 2012. Overcharged shot does self CC, has much smaller range and can affect just 1 target, so all this is peanuts. WvWvW meta is that the hammer warriors and guardians chain stun the enemy, while the staff elementalist and staff + well necros burst them down, take away the boons.

As a WvWvW player, I am very much worried at the nerfs at engineer, which has always been a rarity in WvWvW and pve. Engi is perhaps the least player profession in WvWvW and generally not welcome to pro guilds, while guardians and warriors make the majority, followed by elementalists, necros, thieves and mesmers. Engis do well in 1 vs 1 roaming, but thieves and mesmers do even better and warrior is as good. Engi rifle #2 and rifle #4 are both single target and generally impractical at long distance, thus not that useful in a large group fight.

Warrior is my next character who gets full ascended gear (the total cost of full ascended set, weapons + armors + trinkets + runes + sigils is around 1000 gold, so this is rather expesinsve). Sadly the game “balance” of this game has completely ignored WvWvW so far and fully circles around the tpvp.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

This is just a lie.

Overcharged shot has a CD of 15 secs, kb distance 450.

Warriors have the rifle butt skill that doesn’t CC the user.
The cooldown is 12, and deals more damage, kb distance 400.

Rangers, have a longbow skill that doesnt cc the user, does more damage, has the potential to send enemies flying to a distance of 600, and has a cooldown of 12.

And lets not forget about traited Necromancers (and Ranger pets) and their ability for fear people for ages.

You are just crying.

CC uptime, not distance sir. Overcharged shot is a 3s CC on its target on a 15s CD. That’s one second of stun for every five seconds. The only thing that rivals that is earthshaker, which requires adrenaline ;\

Also, to the guy who said I don’t find success on power engi, you missed hundred nades and HGH. Just because I’d prefer to play another class instead of a power engi doesn’t mean I don’t know how to play a power engi… I never said condi engi wasn’t broken, I always thought balth was broken since they changed it.

The damage on cele isn’t “reliable” in that it’s dependent on battle for might stacks. It also does straight up LESS damage in favor of insane amounts of sustain to get the most out of its CC uptime.

Ostricheggs.3742:

The damage on cele isn’t “reliable” in that it’s dependent on battle for might stacks. It also does straight up LESS damage in favor of insane amounts of sustain to get the most out of its CC uptime.

Gonna have to disagree on the first part, budski. The battle sigil is not a dependency any more for Cele as it is for Rabid. It’s just the best suited sigil due to the Engineer’s native hybrid damage type. Battle sigil could be deleted, I could run power runes and Air Sigil, and Cele Engi wouldn’t be that much different, other than being shaved down in pressure slightly.

Battle sigil is just the gravy.

While your assessment of Celestial Rifle builds doing less damage than Rabid is correct, Cele is more rounded while Rabid is more offensive, I’m not sure where you’re going by bringing that up.

Rifle obviously has a higher skill cap than P/P which is literally just condi spam (similar to SB spirit ranger).

lets just give the knock back a more visible animation and the problem will be solved.
and the knock down time surely can be decrease by a little.

uberkingkong.8041:

I hear this stuff about Guardians not in the NA meta anymore. Want to know why?
Because bunker guardian can sustain in 1v1 1v2 fights
However turret engy can sustain AND decap the node on 1v1 1v2 fights. Also more likely to finish someone in 1v1 fights, while guardian is just a big meat shield, no real offensive from a bunker guardian.

Turret Engineer is definately NOT in the NA meta. A lot of you guys forget that Turret Engi has zero mobility options, and can’t rotate, nor fight off-point.

High-rated games are won by the team which rotates better. Turret Engineer is just laughable. A bit of coordination in the burst and he’s gonna be down.

The real problem is in low-rated SoloQ games, where everyone thinks the other 4 small dots on the map are NPCs and not other teammates to interact with. Thus Turret engi dominates in this field, since it requires little effort to achieve high effectiveness.

Ostricheggs.3742:

CC uptime, not distance sir. Overcharged shot is a 3s CC on its target on a 15s CD. That’s one second of stun for every five seconds. The only thing that rivals that is earthshaker, which requires adrenaline ;\

Your entire argument is destroyed by the fear condition.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Ostricheggs.3742:

CC uptime, not distance sir. Overcharged shot is a 3s CC on its target on a 15s CD. That’s one second of stun for every five seconds. The only thing that rivals that is earthshaker, which requires adrenaline ;\

Your entire argument is destroyed by the fear condition.

Eh, yeah, you’re kind of right, if you factor in how stackable fear is, especially.

But a direct example of a skill that Oeggs forgot about, that has equal CC uptime, better damage, better reliability – always clutch, no travel time:

Doom is an instant 2.5s fear, with a 17s Cooldown.

Chaith.8256:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Ostricheggs.3742:

CC uptime, not distance sir. Overcharged shot is a 3s CC on its target on a 15s CD. That’s one second of stun for every five seconds. The only thing that rivals that is earthshaker, which requires adrenaline ;\

Your entire argument is destroyed by the fear condition.

Eh, yeah, you’re kind of right, if you factor in how stackable fear is, especially.

But a direct example of a skill that Oeggs forgot about, that has equal CC uptime, better damage, better reliability – always clutch, no travel time:

Doom is an instant 2.5s fear, with a 17s Cooldown.

That’s with 2 traits and 10% life force, plus it’s removed with condition removal. Just so it’s in context.

Engineers aren’t OP, but it can be hard since they have so many different builds that seem to work. Turrets are a pain in SoloQ because people don’t seem to know how to fight them, and is generally accepted to be a low skill floor spec so almost anyone can run one. But I think engineers are in a good spot right now.

Engi. is not brokenly op . . . but still, why there are many games with 4 or 5 engis, and NOT 4 or 5 mesmers, 4 or 5 thieves teams?

The only i see after this patch is 4 rangers, and they lose horribly.

I hope in 2019 when we get a new game mode this problem is solve.

Lot of interesting things but while the rifle 4 conversation is interesting. Placed in context of actual PvP, that 3s of CC is negated with a stun break. You also can’t average the 1 sec of CC per 5 seconds because after my 3s are up, I can then CC the engi which would then negate the average. Placed further in context with a turret build, then yes, the amount of CC is strong with this one. It would take a lot of stab and condition clear to stay on point against that build.

Which is the same argument we have been having about engineers for the last 3 months. However, just wait, since Elixir X will be the new Engineer meta. Enjoy the burst.