Guild Wars 2

I honestly cant help but chuckle at people who think this is better then conquest. A few things if i can

1) Were going backwards build wise
At what point is playing only defense or offense with similar type of builds a good thing. I understand that people trying to learn how to play either high risk high reward builds sucked for them because 90% of the gw2 players arent any good at pvp. I can just see people coming up with pure bunker characters again to defend and pure dps characters kill npc mobs.

2) PvP strategy?
Ive had a few matches go the distance and i sit there and wonder how simply because everyone who tried to 1 vs 1 me lost. The thing bothering the most is its not pvp anymore, its who can play the role best. Its no longer who can hold points longer or win a fight its about who ran the npc quicker with the better escort. You have all these people talking lack of builds and here we go back to more tradioinal trinity system mostly because people werent very good at pvp so this makes it simple.

3) Its neat
I will say it is fun at times but i also fine death match fun and wished for a few more maps for that. What impressed me most about this game was that it did take skill, understanding what to dodge and what attacks were coming aswell as watching my opponents boons/auras. Now i find myself either running back and forth to to grab a npc or escort a npc to fight a npkittenill a players comes over to stop me.

And the end of all that is this really what the gw1/lol/moba players in gw2 looking for? The guys who prefer that style of pvp with the freedom of the gw2 style of fighting? Its a fun side game but seriously it doesnt show the same ability or skill as conquest. You will have people literally do the same thing the whole match and be pounding there chest because he runs faster to supply and avoids fights to help elsewhere which can be good strategy if we were fighting other people as oppose to npc.

I truly hope we get another map for this cause its fun but pray to lyssa that this doesnt become the “it” thing for pvp.

Dude…it’s been out for a day…well, not even that long.

There’s not even a meta for this game mode yet. There’s no established strategies. Even if there were, it’ll all change when HoT comes out and every prof has a new specialization….plus revenant.

So take a breath before jumping on the doomsday train.

I had lots of fun… But I guess going 17:3 will do that regardless of what you’re doing. :/

God forbid…people play a game to actually have fun.
Do pls remember that conquest will not go anywhere, if you do enjoy the whole sitting in a small circle, dancing inside an aoe…pls do continue

These are my favorite posts. Mhmm~

kdaddy.5431:

I honestly can’t help but chuckle at people who think this is better than conquest. A few things if I may.

1) We’re going backwards build-wise:
At what point is playing only defense or offense with similar types of builds a good thing? I understand that people trying to learn how to play high-risk, high-reward builds which sucked for them because 90% of the gw2 players aren’t even any good at pvp. I can just see people coming up with pure bunker characters again to defend and pure dps characters to kill npc mobs.

This is literally the first day of public testing. You do not know exactly how the builds will turn out in the end, people are still trying to grasp even the most fundamental concepts of the map like the mechanics, timers, gate health, lord health, etc.

Unless you are psychic or perhaps can see into the future in which case I question why you would be on a gaming forum posting and not solving crimes and saving the world or something to that regard. But I am going to assume you are neither.

kdaddy.5431:

2) PvP strategy?
I’ve had a few matches go the distance and I sit there and wonder how, simply because everyone who tried to 1 vs 1 me lost. The thing bothering me the most is it is not pvp anymore, its who can play the role best. It’s no longer who can hold points longer or win a fight it is about who ran the npc quicker with the better escort. You have all these people talking lack of builds and here we go back to more traditional trinity system mostly because people weren’t very good at pvp so this makes it simple.

What bothers me about this part is that you seem to define PvP, if I am reading this correctly, as what Conquest is, and is only. If you think PvP should only be about who holds the points better then of course you are going to be confused about the PvP map, it is an entirely new PvP mode. That means there will be new builds, new strategies, an entirely new kitten Meta associated with this PvP game-type.

Just because it does not fit what you are so accustomed to does not mean it is not PvP. What’s hilariously worse is that you complain about who can play the role best, yet I am fairly certain that idea in of itself was the entire IDEA of Conquest too! Who roams better? Who bunkers better? That’s what PvP IS. And once again, more ‘clairvoyant’ conjecture on how the builds will turn out. Good news friend, some of the current meta-builds in Conquest work quite well here!

kdaddy.5431:

3) It’s neat:
I will say it is fun at times but I also find deathmatch fun and wished for a few more maps for that. What impressed me most about this game was that it did take skill, understanding what to dodge and what attacks were coming as well as watching my opponents boons/auras. Now I find myself either running back and forth to to grab a npc or escort a npc to fight a npkittenill a players comes over to stop me.

And the end of all that is this really what the gw1/lol/moba players in gw2 looking for? The guys who prefer that style of pvp with the freedom of the gw2 style of fighting? Its a fun side game but seriously it doesn’t show the same ability or skill as conquest. You will have people literally do the same thing the whole match and be pounding their chests because they run faster to supply and then avoids fights to help elsewhere which can be good strategy if we were fighting other people as oppose to npc.

I truly hope we get another map for this cause it’s fun but pray to lyssa that this doesn’t become the “it” thing for pvp.

I uh…was having fun attempting to make the post more readable for my eyes, but that line I italicized made me do a double-take and I skipped over it. I think I got the gist though.

Here’s the thing, a lot of the things you are complaining about seem very hypocritical for one reason. That is the fact that you are attempting to compare Stronghold to Conquest, and Conquest itself has got the same issues you are talking about Stronghold with. Allow me to illustrate: “Conquest isn’t even real PvP! It is all about who has the more bunkered classes, and who has the better roamer, its not even balanced! People won’t even fight half the time cause they are going for the capture points!”

I noticed you talked about how much you liked Deathmatch, and you definitely are not the only one who enjoys that mode. In the purest sense Deathmatch is probably the least ‘objective-based’ mode of them all, it is literally whoever kills more wins. Of course there are a few issues with it that I won’t get into here, but it is a different steed than either Conquest or Stronghold.

How on earth would anyone think fighting against AI on point is PvP?

Siva Mira.3546:

How on earth would anyone think fighting against AI on point is PvP?

You must be new to video games. PvP is much more than dog pile team fights and halo-esque game modes copied into MMOs.

I played a few games, and although I won most of them, I can’t say that they were more that or even as fun as conquest. The most off-putting thing for me is the necessity of killing npcs as well as the need to run supply to continue spawning breakers. In a moba, minions continuously spawn and fight each other in the middle of the lane. When they don’t spawn automatically, it makes for a lot of running back and forth.
Also, killing npcs just feels like a waste in GW2. I have all these great abilities and mechanics, and at the end I just have to do whatever does the most damage to enemies that barely fight back. This is where conquest it strong. Other than standing in various circles, the mode is almost purely combat and strategy, which is much more engaging than standing there shooting veterans.

Are we being serious right now?

Seriously everyone on this forum complains about fighting ai turret engys then they come out with a pvp map where you mostly fight npc, really?

Also acting like we all cant see where this is leading, anyone who played league and moba sees the same things. Also being a person who has played at least 6 other mmos before gw2 ive seen my fair share of pvp styles.

Lastly if you think conquest is zerg fights or fighting in cap points shows how little you actually know about conquest. Seriously the elite teams of gw2 dont even fight in the cap points if they dont have to. Which brings in the strategy of conquest. Something as simple as who fights in the cap poinit and who fights from a distance, pairing up condi with dps players so you do the most damage, rotations and the simple fact that killing people gives you a advantage.

I didnt say i didnt like stronghold but if this where the community takes pvp that would be sad because of how great conquest actually is. You have forum topics such defense or offense, and we should have full teams just on defense and offense. Everyone and there mother wants the game to be made simple so they can run pure classes.

Is the best part, peoples responses where its the beta or just cause its not your version of pvp. Ummmm im sorry but we kill npc and a npc lord to win the game and we escort npc for support. Yes ohhh my as someone who loves his staff mesmer condi traits 2-0-6-0-6 with the rune of the undead i love the ability to come up with unique builds which kills other players.

Please tell me you if you were to project the future of this map that you wouldnt see boon shouting characters escorting with pure bunkers sit by the gate and dps players roaming to kill npc. Seriously our job in this pvp map is to support npc!

Its like being Michael Jordan and kobe bryant and the only way to win is to pass the ball to a college player to score. Like no matter how many points you score or how well you defend or how many people you kill we can only win if this college player who isnt as good gets the ball down the court and scores.

Honestly, I don’t see the archers to be a thing we couldn’t vote out in favor of something else like…a gate ram mechanic.

This is just my 2 copper on them so far.

kdaddy.5431:

I honestly cant help but chuckle at people who think this is better then conquest.

After this beta, the stronghold fanboyism will decrease significantly.

The biggest problems with stronghold are:
1. Stronghold snowballs pretty hard. If you screw up pulling guards away from doorbreakers, your offense push fails. If your opponents’ pull the guards successfully, they’re through the second gate and will likely win. There’s no way to come back from that.
2. Focus is too heavily on the NPCs. It’s all about killing/defending the doorbreakers and aggroing guards away from them. The players are an obstacle to focusing on NPCs, but unless you’re a full glass build, you wait until you’re through both doors to deal with players.

In contrast, conquest by its very design gives the team with more nodes a disadvantage by having to spread thinner in order to hold them. It’s a natural comeback mechanic, not a forced one. The few NPCs in conquest are only the focus for a short time.

The difference I was finding here is that the fight was very mobile, where as in conquest it isn’t. In conquest you really shouldn’t be fighting off point unless you hold more cap points and are slowing down the other team from getting to them to retake them.

In this game mode more of the map had value. Depending on the flow, some times it made sense to attack and defend, some of the time holding mid field was the key to victory, and as time in the match moved into later stages those same key grounds would change. Had a map that the enemy took down both gates right off but then team was able to hold choke points to block them. Ended up a victory as two players took out the other teams lord while 3 held off 5. That was only after 1 player held mid and sent a steady stream of NPC down the path.

I am not saying replace conquest, but I wouldn’t say this is a step backwards. If anything I can see this game mode to hold more variety. Example I could see people that like courtyard to like this game mode because you can turn it into courtyard if you choose.

I would love to see some statistics of player kills in this game mode, it felt like there was more player fighting then in a lot of conquest games. Quite often in conquest people will avoid the fight since capping leads to wins. Here only one cap matters and if you don’t kill the other team you are going to lose.

I was also looking at some builds I use in WvW would be more effective in this mode then some of the conquest PvP builds. Will have to see how that plays out but again I think that means more variations on the match and to me freshness is a key factor in extending a game’s replay-ability.

But, each to their own. Good hunting!

Exedore.6320:

kdaddy.5431:

I honestly cant help but chuckle at people who think this is better then conquest.

After this beta, the stronghold fanboyism will decrease significantly.

The biggest problems with stronghold are:
1. Stronghold snowballs pretty hard. If you screw up pulling guards away from doorbreakers, your offense push fails. If your opponents’ pull the guards successfully, they’re through the second gate and will likely win. There’s no way to come back from that.
2. Focus is too heavily on the NPCs. It’s all about killing/defending the doorbreakers and aggroing guards away from them. The players are an obstacle to focusing on NPCs, but unless you’re a full glass build, you wait until you’re through both doors to deal with players.

In contrast, conquest by its very design gives the team with more nodes a disadvantage by having to spread thinner in order to hold them. It’s a natural comeback mechanic, not a forced one. The few NPCs in conquest are only the focus for a short time.

I had a team come back from a no door down -> our boss exposed. They get very Rushy, have 3 guys defend, have a warrior with a banner or some other hard-rez, (precast it when needed) and have 2 focus on doors on your team, they’ll get completely ignored. Keep wiping them, heal your lord a bit, sometimes they will split up, and from there you can zerg it. That’s what we did. I think the bigger issue is if other people are winning people give up!

Exedore.6320:

kdaddy.5431:

I honestly cant help but chuckle at people who think this is better then conquest.

After this beta, the stronghold fanboyism will decrease significantly.

Of course it will decrease that is because before they played the map, all they had were fantasy of the game mode not the reality of it. THat is why most products never manage to reach the prelaunch hype because fantasy can be anything you want to be, it is fluid, while reality is solid.

So ultimately, your statement is a meaningless hyperbolic statement because it applies to everything new.

With that said, Stronghold at the very minimum seems much more fun than conquest than again conquest did seem fun as well initially. So it is a win win for a lot of players.

I still wonder what is the purpose of this thread…it’s not like they’ll remove conquest in favor of Stronghold, so the OP will be free to remain there…

I feel like I have to elaborate some people on an important case.
PvP=Players versus Players
so far not so much of it in stronghold, it will most likely change
there is no denying that there is more player vs player in conquest FOR NOW (some still will say it’s not what they expect from pvp)
some people worked and trained for mechanical skills in pvp encounters, and they feel upset that they can’t make real use of it in stronghold
also stronghold is even worse for solo than conquest because it’s tactic wise harder than ‘hold on to your points, seize theirs’ lol
stronghold looks interesting but i fear it might evolve wrong way – stray away from pvp; playing solo you easily realise both sides just care for objectives, you wont get effective +1 to take care of one player and thus stopping him from running tasks + you can take his supplies. And 1vs1 in order to do so is waste of time.

From a spectator point of view, I had more fun watching Stronghold than I have watching Conquest. The objective was more clear, and it was easier to tell what the “big” moments were, even without a knowledge of GW2 combat mechanics.

I don’t know if this makes Stronghold better, but I do think it’s good to have around.

Aenye.2390:

I feel like I have to elaborate some people on an important case.
PvP=Players versus Players
so far not so much of it in stronghold, it will most likely change
there is no denying that there is more player vs player in conquest FOR NOW (some still will say it’s not what they expect from pvp)
some people worked and trained for mechanical skills in pvp encounters, and they feel upset that they can’t make real use of it in stronghold
also stronghold is even worse for solo than conquest because it’s tactic wise harder than ‘hold on to your points, seize theirs’ lol
stronghold looks interesting but i fear it might evolve wrong way – stray away from pvp; playing solo you easily realise both sides just care for objectives, you wont get effective +1 to take care of one player and thus stopping him from running tasks + you can take his supplies. And 1vs1 in order to do so is waste of time.

All I get in conquest as solo player is :

-Nades/slick shoe spamming
-Combustive shot spamm
-Necro wells spamm
-Chaos field spamm
-Turrets spamm

Basically for me conquest is just aoe spamm on point, thief jumps on you, bunker point…snowball to other point…and this is 24/7. Team with better aoe management wins.

But most importantly, so far it seems that victory is not dictated by team composition even before the game starts, I simply don’t care about what you see at the top levels, ‘cause I don’t play at those levels, at my levels all I get is aoe spamm on point and pugs that die in 3s to cheap builds with simplistic tactics : run on point and spamm all aoes ( especially well necro – run on point and spamm 7-8-9 -go DS and spamm 1 or Lich Form spamming again 1), then there is slick shoe spamm, combustive shot war etc etc…

If you do enjoy that, by all means keep playing conquest, me and others on the other hand are looking for something different..and that would be stronghold

Aenye.2390:

I feel like I have to elaborate some people on an important case.
PvP=Players versus Players
so far not so much of it in stronghold, it will most likely change
there is no denying that there is more player vs player in conquest FOR NOW (some still will say it’s not what they expect from pvp)
some people worked and trained for mechanical skills in pvp encounters, and they feel upset that they can’t make real use of it in stronghold
also stronghold is even worse for solo than conquest because it’s tactic wise harder than ‘hold on to your points, seize theirs’ lol
stronghold looks interesting but i fear it might evolve wrong way – stray away from pvp; playing solo you easily realise both sides just care for objectives, you wont get effective +1 to take care of one player and thus stopping him from running tasks + you can take his supplies. And 1vs1 in order to do so is waste of time.

If you are looking for REALZ pwep, like the guy above me said, the inclusion of Stronghold doesn’t not mean the removal of Conquest.

You can still play that terrible worthless game mode if you want, but I shouldn’t be subjected to that game mode because you think ZERG vs ZERG is the only type of PvP there is.

Conquest sucks.

They are keeping both modes in. I don’t see the issue at all. In fact I look at it like expanding the pvp base overall. Attracting more players who like the game mode. Sure they may differ from conquest, but whose to say that those who like stronghold won’t learn try and like conquest as well in future. I like the addition. I hope they rework the pvp menu to Conquest – Deathmatch – Stronghold buttons and a menu for unranked, ranked or custom underneath. Or something to simply differentiate them.

People all have there own style of type of game they enjoy. Some wvw prefer deathmatch over conquest, and others may enjoy this mode more. While some enjoy the good ol conquest. Anet has alot of options ahead of themselves to really focus on this community and that is a good sign for the future of pvp.