Guild Wars 2

I can definitely say it really has been two years now and if two years ago I told you and the sPvP community who was still here that two years from now, what would your reaction have been? Even when Anet had this whole E-Sports idea that didn’t work out too well, I figured that it at least showed them to be dedicated to the area of the game and that it would get a lot of content. I feel like objectively, even by GW2 standards, has had very little content added especially within the 2nd year of the games history.

The last map we had added for conquest was exactly one year ago, which also around that time, in September I think, we heard the devs talk about new modes. That was a year ago? What have they been doing? Its very dissapointing :/ I don’t think its unrealistic for any MMO that has a developed PvP community to ask for a new mode or just something that is significant. The feature update was nice but when you really think about it, it wasn’t all that much. It blurred the line between PvP/PVE, made UI changes, also made editing your build more convenient, and a reward track(which did give a lot more incentive to do PvP).

On a last note I think one reason this may be which is one reason for a lot of decisions probably made in GW2 is that the devs are really afraid of spreading their playerbase. I think this fear is constantly on the back of the devs minds. Ive heard them mention it many times in the history of GW2 because of their experience with GW1 where it did really affect the game.

Maybe in a couple years.

Probably, and hopefully, it won’t be more than just conquest. It’s balanced around conquest. Any other game mode with current balance would be atrocious.

Watch the 2v2 Mistpedia Cup. You can’t bring in whatever class you want. Engineers and Ele’s are the best 2v2 setup. It’s not made for 2v2s.

tichorum.2415:

Probably, and hopefully, it won’t be more than just conquest. It’s balanced around conquest. Any other game mode with current balance would be atrocious.

Watch the 2v2 Mistpedia Cup. You can’t bring in whatever class you want. Engineers and Ele’s are the best 2v2 setup. It’s not made for 2v2s.

Oh please, just because 2 good players are winning you come here and say “engineers and Eles are the best 2v2 setup”. Just No.

Come back to me when good players are actually taking part in that 2v2 tournament and showing their stuff.

I truely do not like Conquest, never have, never will. I liked old GW1 RA/TA where it was just smash face, last team standing.

I also liked GW1s GvG and Tombs. Having Guild Wars in that Guild Wars game – revolutionary.

Dirame.8521:

tichorum.2415:

Probably, and hopefully, it won’t be more than just conquest. It’s balanced around conquest. Any other game mode with current balance would be atrocious.

Watch the 2v2 Mistpedia Cup. You can’t bring in whatever class you want. Engineers and Ele’s are the best 2v2 setup. It’s not made for 2v2s.

Oh please, just because 2 good players are winning you come here and say “engineers and Eles are the best 2v2 setup”. Just No.

Come back to me when good players are actually taking part in that 2v2 tournament and showing their stuff.

cuz caed and zoose arent good players

The game will never be an e-sport because it lacks depth at a fundamental game play level. Combat is too simple and has a certain twitch element to it(GW1 and MOBA players alike prefer more cerebral combat). Dodging and evasion has a nice feel but it prevents players from being methodical about skill choice and usage. In many cases you can avoid attacks without even being aware of them.

Conquest wasn’t the best choice as a general sPvP mode but it’s not terrible and could benefit from a few tweaks(i.e. multiple players affecting point captures). I think they chose it because of the popularity of alliance battles in the previous installment and because they feel movement is of vital importance to this game.

I think they’re aware that sPvP lacks variety and are working on bringing something new to the table soon. The courtyard map, however awful, is an indication of that.

Just my two cents.

tichorum.2415:

Probably, and hopefully, it won’t be more than just conquest. It’s balanced around conquest. Any other game mode with current balance would be atrocious.

Watch the 2v2 Mistpedia Cup. You can’t bring in whatever class you want. Engineers and Ele’s are the best 2v2 setup. It’s not made for 2v2s.

You want conquest only. What a joke. Who cares about balance. Lets have some fun for once. And the 2v2 cup is a joke. A proper 2v2 system would be balanced around the games mechanics. In the case of this game, with elites, this game would need a ticket system whereby a death lowers the teams tickets by one and the game is continuous.

Anet are being so stubborn in this regard. They give us a 2v2 map and then want to see any 2v2 situations fail. Well it will fail over and over because the game mode isn’t designed properly. Anet are meant to be game designers. Their job is to make a 2v2 system which is fair, balanced, fun and competitive. If they can’t do that then they have failed. Their attitude is to give the players half done features and then hope these features fail so they can say “We told you doing this wasn’t a good idea”. That is how is seems.

I personally enjoy conquest. Adds another depth besides just killing the other person. Still, for some reason, people really want their death match. If that happens my perma stealth 5 man thief team will coordinate back stab someone and get the stomp and then hide for the rest of the game. That sounds fun. :/.

Eurantien.4632:

I personally enjoy conquest. Adds another depth besides just killing the other person. Still, for some reason, people really want their death match. If that happens my perma stealth 5 man thief team will coordinate back stab someone and get the stomp and then hide for the rest of the game. That sounds fun. :/.

The map would be designed to be small enough to not allow this.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Eurantien.4632:

I personally enjoy conquest. Adds another depth besides just killing the other person. Still, for some reason, people really want their death match. If that happens my perma stealth 5 man thief team will coordinate back stab someone and get the stomp and then hide for the rest of the game. That sounds fun. :/.

The map would be designed to be small enough to not allow this.

How would this not be allowed? We have 5 shadow refuges, we all have tanky ammy’s and guaranteed 100% crit from stealth. While in stealth 3 of us are regening 300 something hp/s (not including our heal), and the other 2 are giving us – 50% dmg reduction while in stealth (not to mention the regen our valk thief is throwing out for another 200 or so hp/s. You won’t kill us, we’ve thoroughly tested it and we can face tank it all, we even have mercy runes so even if you managed to down one of us he will be back up instantly (and still invisible). Yet, we can still all coordinate our backstab to hit for 25k+ to one shot someone, 4 of us cleave, 1 shadow step stomp, and gg. We double dodge out shadow refuge and game is over. Can’t wait. It’s gonna be fun :/.

Eurantien.4632:

How would this not be allowed? We have 5 shadow refuges, we all have tanky ammy’s and guaranteed 100% crit from stealth. While in stealth 3 of us are regening 300 something hp/s (not including our heal), and the other 2 are giving us – 50% dmg reduction while in stealth (not to mention the regen our valk thief is throwing out for another 200 or so hp/s. You won’t kill us, we’ve thoroughly tested it and we can face tank it all, we even have mercy runes so even if you managed to down one of us he will be back up instantly (and still invisible). Yet, we can still all coordinate our backstab to hit for 25k+ to one shot someone, 4 of us cleave, 1 shadow step stomp, and gg. We double dodge out shadow refuge and game is over. Can’t wait. It’s gonna be fun :/.

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least bit if this was viable. Thief abilities aside(that’s another can of worms), I’ve always thought stealth was a broken mechanic by default unless restricted in certain ways, i.e. inhibitively long CDs for entering stealth while in combat. It seems to be manageable in small doses but when exacerbated by groups of thieves, it’s a problem. I realize that in GW1 everyone was visible on the compass map, even behind obstructions. That much awareness is ridiculous but full blown “stealth” and the current implementation of it may be swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

Eurantien.4632:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Eurantien.4632:

I personally enjoy conquest. Adds another depth besides just killing the other person. Still, for some reason, people really want their death match. If that happens my perma stealth 5 man thief team will coordinate back stab someone and get the stomp and then hide for the rest of the game. That sounds fun. :/.

The map would be designed to be small enough to not allow this.

How would this not be allowed? We have 5 shadow refuges, we all have tanky ammy’s and guaranteed 100% crit from stealth. While in stealth 3 of us are regening 300 something hp/s (not including our heal), and the other 2 are giving us - 50% dmg reduction while in stealth (not to mention the regen our valk thief is throwing out for another 200 or so hp/s. You won’t kill us, we’ve thoroughly tested it and we can face tank it all, we even have mercy runes so even if you managed to down one of us he will be back up instantly (and still invisible). Yet, we can still all coordinate our backstab to hit for 25k+ to one shot someone, 4 of us cleave, 1 shadow step stomp, and gg. We double dodge out shadow refuge and game is over. Can’t wait. It’s gonna be fun :/.

A whole thief comp is so weak in comparison to other potential comps. With no stability so easy to deal with thief guard lay line or warding players kite around the line. Wars aoe stuns if thiefs in one refuge they are get hit by one one earth shaker. Also with all the cc and aoe damage flying everywhere thiefs team would get wreck absolutely reckted.

Even a full turret engi team would destroy them.

I don’t think 5v5’s should really be done by 2v2’s and 3v3’s. There is also a lot more that can be viable thatn ele/engi, its just that this seems to be the current meta in 2v2’s. It will change, it always does. Someone will try something new and find a strategy to hard counter the two. Builds that work in dueling do not necessary work in modes like conquest where you need a diverse and sustainable build to keep on going.

In dueling, if you truly are allowed to do whatever you want, you can run the most insane 1 shot mechanic types of builds to kill the person. Builds that have incredibly high risk but also incredibly high reward.

My idea would be let people que in with their 2-3 folk, and when they enter to fight the same numbers in an arena, you have 3-5 rounds. This is so people can evaluate what they need to do/change each round. You gives players like a 30 second period between each fight to change their build. It would be unfair it was like the WoW system where you just go in and only have 1 round. If that was done then too many cheesy 1-shot mechanic builds would dominate because people don’t know what to expect of the other opponent when they go in.

Here’s one example. Say its a power necro vs a power guard. They que in, fight, and the necro instantly pops lich and melts the guard. If it was just round the necro would win and it would be cheesy builds dominating. If its 3 rounds, a smart guard will put on wall of reflection and then try to kite the necro around the wall until he lich is done(which ive seen done and its an effective strategy). The guard wins that fight. On the third fight the necro will have to do something differently to adapt to the guard.

Guard doesn’t lose to Lich 1v1 anyway :P

Eurantien.4632:

I personally enjoy conquest. Adds another depth besides just killing the other person. Still, for some reason, people really want their death match. If that happens my perma stealth 5 man thief team will coordinate back stab someone and get the stomp and then hide for the rest of the game. That sounds fun. :/.

I like conquest too, but I would love to play other gamemodes. I am not that interested in just a kill arena, but there is a lot of scope for interesting pvp gamemodes besides just standing in circles or killing people.

I would like to see more PvP modes for variety, yes. Conquest is fine, but it gets a bit stale doing nothing but Conquest all the time.

Wish there were more maps like Courtyard where it’s just “smash enemy face” like an earlier poster commented.

Might also be fun to have some Last Man Standing maps where it’s a complete free-for-all. Also, a kind of “assault enemy base” map similar to Fort Aspenwood back in GW1. That was fun.

Looks like a big no.

My theory: egomaniac at anet thought they knew best, so they ignored all community input about pvp.

pvp failed.

egomaniac probably still thinks they were just a genius ahead of their time, that or anet just decided they couldn’t make good on all their pvp promises so they might as well not waste resources trying.

I will probably not be trusting anet again in the future. whatever creative genius the company once had going for it in the days of gw1 has clearly either left or lost it’s voice within the company.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

More game modes will be released with the Tengu Dervish patch!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

mooty.4560:

The game will never be an e-sport because it lacks depth at a fundamental game play level. Combat is too simple and has a certain twitch element to it(GW1 and MOBA players alike prefer more cerebral combat). Dodging and evasion has a nice feel but it prevents players from being methodical about skill choice and usage. In many cases you can avoid attacks without even being aware of them.

Conquest wasn’t the best choice as a general sPvP mode but it’s not terrible and could benefit from a few tweaks(i.e. multiple players affecting point captures). I think they chose it because of the popularity of alliance battles in the previous installment and because they feel movement is of vital importance to this game.

I think they’re aware that sPvP lacks variety and are working on bringing something new to the table soon. The courtyard map, however awful, is an indication of that.

Just my two cents.

I’m with you on the combat, but I don’t think the situation is unfixable: I think if basic autoattack damage were seriously nerfed right across the board, and the big damage skills became better telegraphed so as to make dodging them more meaningful, this could become a more tactical, cerebral team-game.

Unfortunately what we’re seeing instead is power creep all over, making combat even faster and burstier. This makes for fun 1v1s but utterly brain-meltingly incomprehensible tema fights.

Thought i’d repost this here as it is fairly relevant:

alemfi.5107:

IMO what GW2 needs are:
- New modes ( can be simple objectives, CTF, kill the lord, etc. )
- An unrated queue for these modes, so that they can still prioritize balance for conquest e-sports.
- A queue filter to queue into specific modes or maps. If you are more selective the queue will take longer. When matching players, it will be able to randomly select from the pool of acceptable modes/map, however it should never place a player into a mode or map they chose to filter out.

This queue filter would be really important/useful, as with this anet can get actual diagnostics for how many people are actually okay with skyhammer/ vehemently opposed to it, what modes are popular etc.

They could also convert soloq into this unrated queue, as it doesn’t really serve a useful purpose as there are SO many factors that come into play in soloq, that as an indicator of personal skill, the leaderboards are pretty much worthless.

manveruppd.7601:

I’m with you on the combat, but I don’t think the situation is unfixable: I think if basic autoattack damage were seriously nerfed right across the board, and the big damage skills became better telegraphed so as to make dodging them more meaningful, this could become a more tactical, cerebral team-game.

This is an EXCELLENT suggestion that was made adnauseum duringn development.

Unfortunately, it is not a suggestion that is equal to the creative genius that arenanet hired – as a result this, and several other sub-par suggestions were ignored. Most because they would hold GW2 back from being a AAA Esport.

Honestly it reminds me of when I was a child and would see people suggest really good ideas and then ignore them – because I was trying to prove to myself I could be clever and invent my own path.

What do you mean during development? Autoatacks were already pretty strong during BWEs. Were they weaker at an earlier stage in development?

Anyway, I’ll be honest, I don’;t entirely blame them for not switching direction and doing it now. It would be a massive rebalancing job.

PvP already is more than conquest…we have a nice golf minigame on skyhammer…too bad noone actually asked for it…well noone wants it to be more precise

Ok i know this post is gonna end into the neverending skyhammer topic (Also called “we don’t give a kitten bout player’s feedback but we can’t delete all your posts with no reason”) in couple of hours

Archaon.9524:

PvP already is more than conquest…we have a nice golf minigame on skyhammer…too bad noone actually asked for it…well noone wants it to be more precise

Ok i know this post is gonna end into the neverending skyhammer topic (Also called “we don’t give a kitten bout player’s feedback but we can’t delete all your posts with no reason”) in couple of hours

I actually am starting to feel bad. All the hate on this forum has probably caused somebody a nervous breakdown and it probably wasn’t the kitten who thought he knew everything. That guy probably has some motif like: “don’t read the forums those people are trash anyways.”

So it’s just some guy who actually cares, but his boss will never support an idea that wasn’t his own.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@:“Is sPvP ever going to be more than Conquest?”

Yes.

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

I can’t give out too much info, but I can let you know that we are working on a new game mode.

Can we expect any announcement soon? Maybe during the GW2 second anniversary?

I’m looking forward to the announcement and details about it. Hopefully it’s not too long of a wait but i’m just glad something is finally being developed because it is very much needed.

Aw yess they’re working on it!!11!11!!

Let me guess…when it’s ready?

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Here comes an Anet dev to tell us things are coming without giving us any information on what is coming or when it’s coming! Anyone remember leagues! They said that was coming! Anyone remember those 3 pictures of the new maps! Castle or fortress or whatever with all the bookshelves! Yeah that was like half a year ago! Maybe more! It’s always this “Hey we’re doing things but can’t talk about it and then a year later we’re still working on it!” It’s getting very old and the things you said you were working on a year ago STILL aren’t here!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

EDIT:

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

The solution is SO SIMPLE!!!! Split up abilities into PvP and PvE versions! You did it in GW1! Why won’t you commit to it for GW2! You already did it for some skills like old Dhuumfire and the revealed timer! Why aren’t you committing! Why! WHY!

Wahoo!

dev quote:
“@ game modes vs. other features: We can do both.”
that is from last november…

don’t hold your breath folks

JonathanSharp.7094:

I can’t give out too much info, but I can let you know that we are working on a new game mode.

Thanks for the info, glad to here there are more modes on the horizon.

Can’t express how satisfying it is to actually see official replies, the PvP forum seems to get the fairly regularly.

:-o

THIS! CHANGES! EVERYTHING!

It’s gonna be arenas

ArrDee.2573:

Wahoo! Bye frands!

EDIT:

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

The solution is SO SIMPLE!!!! Split up abilities into PvP and PvE versions! You did it in GW1! Why won’t you commit to it for GW2! You already did it for some skills like old Dhuumfire and the revealed timer! Why aren’t you committing! Why! WHY!

Wahoo!

It is only simple for you because you don’t HAVE to worry about anybody except yourself.

The developers certainly have to worry about the game as a WHOLE. So not it is never as simple as you seem to think. You are not the first person to come up with that idea, they did it in their previous game and obviously found an issue with continuing with that path.

But hey what do I know.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@:“Is sPvP ever going to be more than Conquest?”

Yes.

Hooray!

I can’t give out too much info, but I can let you know that we are working on a new game mode.

we are working on a new game mode.

a new game mode.

a

well ‘a’ new mode is better than no new mode…

JonathanSharp.7094:

@:“Is sPvP ever going to be more than Conquest?”

Yes.

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

I can’t give out too much info, but I can let you know that we are working on a new game mode.

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear you guys are coming up with new stuff.

Marcos.3690:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@:“Is sPvP ever going to be more than Conquest?”

Yes.

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

I can’t give out too much info, but I can let you know that we are working on a new game mode.

Can we expect any announcement soon? Maybe during the GW2 second anniversary?

You should be glad if it’s before the 3rd anniversary.

Soon right? Before or after precursor scavenger hunt and fractal leaderboards?

Interview with John Corpening on ChinaJoy: no new PvP mode in the near future

http://news.17173.com/content/2014-08-07/20140807002452954_3.shtml

They are testing several ideas if they fit into GW2. But there is no fast and easy way of adaptation. It needs time.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@:“Is sPvP ever going to be more than Conquest?”

Yes.

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

I can’t give out too much info, but I can let you know that we are working on a new game mode.

you could atleast tell us what modes you have in mind. Spare the specifics. But telling us it will be a TDM or a CTF mode or something the likes of it would be fair.

Sure some may not “endorse” your future plans, but for sure it will be a worthy option.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@:“Is sPvP ever going to be more than Conquest?”

Yes.

we are tired… we want to play another tipe of spvp or gvg (not urrdhurr swag wvwvw gvg , guild wars 1 gvg) not read about it every 5-6 months…

I hope that new mode isn’t centered around sticking to one spot where AoE, CC and condition spam works too well.

Like a capture the flag in which the ‘flag’ item spawns in a random area on each side and people have to roam that side looking for the flag, then run to the one of 3 spots in the other side with the flag.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@:“Is sPvP ever going to be more than Conquest?”

Yes.

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

I can’t give out too much info, but I can let you know that we are working on a new game mode.

Yeah nice John but what about progression and rewards in a competitive structure?

Because ok, we hope a new game mode can change something for spvp but without incentive to play it’s only a temporary “patch”.

I like Conquest but there is simply no incentive to play it, so i’d avoid the same problem with a new game mode.

JonathanSharp.7094:

You guys know how we do it!

“When it’s ready”, indeed.

@ balance and splitting skills: Splitting the entire game into 2 (or 3, if you want to be technical: PvE, WvW, PvP) sets of #‘s creates a LOT of overhead in maintaining 3 sets of numbers. As most skills are fine across game types, it’s more efficient to split off problem skills and leave the majority of skills consistent across game types. It also means that people have a general sense of relative balance across all game types, and don’t have 2-3 sets of numbers to learn.

How do you determine what is a problem skill and what is not? Like what patterns/community actions tell you that its a problem skill and needs to be split?

Can we have a pvp game mode that doesn’t have downed state/rallying?

JonathanSharp.7094:

You guys know how we do it!

“When it’s ready”, indeed.

@ balance and splitting skills: Splitting the entire game into 2 (or 3, if you want to be technical: PvE, WvW, PvP) sets of #‘s creates a LOT of overhead in maintaining 3 sets of numbers. As most skills are fine across game types, it’s more efficient to split off problem skills and leave the majority of skills consistent across game types. It also means that people have a general sense of relative balance across all game types, and don’t have 2-3 sets of numbers to learn.

So basically what you did in Gw1. Very good. Just do what you learned from that game an it’ll be good.

JonathanSharp.7094:

You guys know how we do it!

“When it’s ready”, indeed.

@ balance and splitting skills: Splitting the entire game into 2 (or 3, if you want to be technical: PvE, WvW, PvP) sets of #‘s creates a LOT of overhead in maintaining 3 sets of numbers. As most skills are fine across game types, it’s more efficient to split off problem skills and leave the majority of skills consistent across game types. It also means that people have a general sense of relative balance across all game types, and don’t have 2-3 sets of numbers to learn.

I can’t help but think that is a total crock Jonathan, a mere excuse to sit on your hands and not do anything. From what I’ve observed skill ‘balance’ is an all or nothing affair, where you only balance a skill if you can do it for all three game modes. If you can’t do that, you do nothing. And months and months go by where nothing changes, nothing improves in the slightest because perfect has become the enemy of good.

And as a result the game has become painfully, painfully stale. GW1 wasn’t perfect, not by a mile, but at least it was fun. I was just good, regular updates. And that doesn’t even go into how shallow GW2 is in comparison. But I digress.

One a separate note, how dismissive are you? Saying that people would have to learn a 2nd set of numbers if you split skills. How stupid do you think people honestly are?
Your basically saying people are so stupid, so lazy that they can’t read a skills description, and can’t comprehend that they work differently in different game modes.

I’m not saying this is intentional on your part, but it’s sounds so ugly and dismissive of your player base. Personally it just sounds like a cop out, and excuse to put as little effort and resources into balancing your game as possible. And forget about new anything to professions, what a joke.

JonathanSharp.7094:

You guys know how we do it!

“When it’s ready”, indeed.

@ balance and splitting skills: Splitting the entire game into 2 (or 3, if you want to be technical: PvE, WvW, PvP) sets of #‘s creates a LOT of overhead in maintaining 3 sets of numbers. As most skills are fine across game types, it’s more efficient to split off problem skills and leave the majority of skills consistent across game types. It also means that people have a general sense of relative balance across all game types, and don’t have 2-3 sets of numbers to learn.

You’re only splitting the game into PvE and PvP considering you haven’t actually communicated with the WvW community in the forums for months and haven’t added content to WvW in slightly over 6 months now.