Guild Wars 2

the game itself needs some improvements but… what about the community ?

with the release of skyhammer a few things came to light, one of the biggest one is how much the “loudest” members of our community hate change, skyhammer is far from the perfect map but… the map itself serves as an example for different, more creative play-types. but then you see all these members of the community completely rejecting and shutting down just because they don’t want to adapt.

these players want to continue running (example) the same shatter build they have been runnimg from launch, the same DD ele build from 7 months ago, same cheesy BM Ranger, etc on the same team comp they run for every map, every month… completely ignoring the unique mechanics of every map.

skyhammer is a step on the right direction, the playground actually played an important role on the meta, driving it away from the bunker- condi heavy into a CC-1v1 meta. It could be awesome if every map had such an impact, it would make map rotations meaningful and help shift metas while keeping things fresh…

but.. until all these loud members of the community learn to adapt and stop being so ignorant towards their class (LOL at all of those who sware their class don’t have any CC or stun breaks), doors will continue to close for both GW2 and the community.

What do you guys think?

• do you want more fun and creative maps, with innovate mechanics ?
  OR..
• plain boring maps with meaningless mechanics so you can run the same build and team comp map after the next?

aye, agree.

most people just scream when their cheese is moved.

they do not go out and look for new cheese.

As a prominent cannon holder. Thieves and mesmers scare me the most when specced/played to fit this map. The typical meta specs did not last long…

Maps with strong secondary objectives like this and Spirit Watch really make the game have another layer of depth because they require players to do more than just kill the other team. Well timed CC can be coordinated for kills, orb pick ups, or orb delays. This provides for a wide variety of strategies, builds, and gameplay every match. Personally with a dodgeable cannon, I don’t see how Skyhammer is not “balanced” and I hope they bring back and/or make more maps with meaningful secondary objectives such as this. Then again, I am the best orb runner and cannon holder (not to mention keg brawler…) NA. Sadly, no one will get to dispute that since these maps won’t be on tourney rotation anymore.

And come on. “Want to make more builds viable” I get to use a LB effectively on these maps as a ranger. I’d call that variety with not as many face to keyboard perma evades.

Yes, and no, AK. Before I get raged at by everyone, this is all just what I’ve seen from doing tournaments and such.

I remember when the game first came out and everyone was crying “OP” about everything. Like recently, it was Necros. Now that has quieted down a bit, because people have learned to adapt a bit to the condition meta, and their rage is focused on Skyhammer a bit. While I think some poor choices have been made as far as balancing and some other things, I think you’re right about the community hating change and hating to adapt. The prime example for this one I would say is that people cry about Warriors not having condi removal when there are things you can do (Berserker’s Stance) that significantly improve your chances against condition damage…

Although I do disagree a bit with one concept that you said, about “ignoring the mechanics of every map.” Tournament maps should be random, and you shouldn’t be able to see the other team’s composition before the match start. This is just ridiculous that these things are still in place because you get things like Mesmers portal-ing to the treb on Khylo, or the other team just waiting until the last moment so they can run a perfect counter to your team composition seems a little unfair to me. Surely you’ve seen these things happening often, right?

SapphireGrace.7123:

Yes, and no, AK. Before I get raged at by everyone, this is all just what I’ve seen from doing tournaments and such.

I remember when the game first came out and everyone was crying “OP” about everything. Like recently, it was Necros. Now that has quieted down a bit, because people have learned to adapt a bit to the condition meta, and their rage is focused on Skyhammer a bit.

No, people are still complaining about Necromancers for sure, it only seems like it’s died down because there’s been a lot of (for the most part) justified hate for Skyhammer. It’s not so much about “adapting” when you can’t really “adapt” in a situation where you will be forced into an instant death mechanic. Instant death =/= skill and furthermore does not promote counter play which is arguably the main component of having competitive play in any game.

Here’s a perfect example, coming from a class that does NOT have the ability to spam fear or have a 15 sec CD knock back.

Shadow Refuge out of line of sight of either side node defender so they have no idea you’re coming or even there.
Stand on glass panel.
Scorpion wire.

Likely instant kill from a situation in which there is nearly no way to tell that you’re about to be killed by the push of one button. ONE skill being used to 100% to 0% someone. If you ask me … this is why people hated 100 Blades at launch. A single skill that could all too easily 100% to 0% someone way too kitten fast, and it has since, been changed.

This kind of mechanic does not promote intuitive, thought out, well timed counter play. This promotes “adapting” via playing a profession that can spam fears or knock backs, rather than supporting build diversity much like people are saying this map promotes.

I disagree that this map promotes build diversity. I believe what it realistically promotes is against the philosophy of “My character” considering there are many who’re likely to just switch to the easiest profession there is to abuse the map’s ability to kill players for you because the map is noticeably imbalanced across professions.

IE: Some professions are indefinitely stronger than others on this map and I do not see how that equates to actual balance. Sure … some professions are going to have stronger roles than others in specific maps … but no map is as painfully obvious which professions are the dominant species as in Skyhammer compared to any other map in sPvP.

google.3709:

the game itself needs some improvements but… what about the community ?

with the release of skyhammer a few things came to light, one of the biggest one is how much the “loudest” members of our community hate change, skyhammer is far from the perfect map but… the map itself serves as an example for different, more creative play-types. but then you see all these members of the community completely rejecting and shutting down just because they don’t want to adapt.

these players want to continue running (example) the same shatter build they have been runnimg from launch, the same DD ele build from 7 months ago, same cheesy BM Ranger, etc on the same team comp they run for every map, every month… completely ignoring the unique mechanics of every map.

skyhammer is a step on the right direction, the playground actually played an important role on the meta, driving it away from the bunker- condi heavy into a CC-1v1 meta. It could be awesome if every map had such an impact, it would make map rotations meaningful and help shift metas while keeping things fresh…

but.. until all these loud members of the community learn to adapt and stop being so ignorant towards their class (LOL at all of those who sware their class don’t have any CC or stun breaks), doors will continue to close for both GW2 and the community.

What do you guys think?

• do you want more fun and creative maps, with innovate mechanics ?
  OR..
• plain boring maps with meaningless mechanics so you can run the same build and team comp map after the next?

Adapting isn’t an issue, recognizing how poorly designed this map was obviously is.. People spouting, “players don’t want to adapt” use this as their war cry as a means to dismiss people who have a different opinion than theirs. Do you think it is hard to adapt to that map? It isn’t…and after you adapt you STILL realize it is terrible design choice.

I found it “fun” to instagib someone maybe the first 10 times, but after that it was just plain dumb.

Pyriall.5027:

Adapting isn’t an issue, recognizing how poorly designed this map was obviously is.. People spouting, “players don’t want to adapt” use this as their war cry as a means to dismiss people who have a different opinion than theirs. Do you think it is hard to adapt to that map? It isn’t…and after you adapt you STILL realize it is terrible design choice.

Framed in golden letters!

Really, I dislike the map.

But I had success: all I needed to do was keep harassing the cannon, to make sure the enemy couldn’t fire it. And to keep at least two people there. Once you get the points, taking them away is really hard.

Is that fun? No.

Is that skillful? I did it, so HECK NO!

google.3709:

the game itself needs some improvements but… what about the community ?

with the release of skyhammer a few things came to light, one of the biggest one is how much the “loudest” members of our community hate change, skyhammer is far from the perfect map but… the map itself serves as an example for different, more creative play-types. but then you see all these members of the community completely rejecting and shutting down just because they don’t want to adapt.

these players want to continue running (example) the same shatter build they have been runnimg from launch, the same DD ele build from 7 months ago, same cheesy BM Ranger, etc on the same team comp they run for every map, every month… completely ignoring the unique mechanics of every map.

skyhammer is a step on the right direction, the playground actually played an important role on the meta, driving it away from the bunker- condi heavy into a CC-1v1 meta. It could be awesome if every map had such an impact, it would make map rotations meaningful and help shift metas while keeping things fresh…

but.. until all these loud members of the community learn to adapt and stop being so ignorant towards their class (LOL at all of those who sware their class don’t have any CC or stun breaks), doors will continue to close for both GW2 and the community.

What do you guys think?

• do you want more fun and creative maps, with innovate mechanics ?
  OR..
• plain boring maps with meaningless mechanics so you can run the same build and team comp map after the next?

I’ll show you how I will adapt to this map. I’ll just need to log in my thief and use scorpion wire while stealthed, instant win.
Or I could log on my engi and bring all the knockbacks I can and go dominate the cannon
Or I could log in my mesmer and focus pull groups of people down the hole

Yeah, it’s hard to adapt to a poorly designed map.

Just use a bomb healing engi and go to point A or B. Or go to cannon. You will be able to hit people with your bombs → you will become REALLY dangerous.

I do not think “bad” is probably the best descriptor, but I give you that it is a difficult one not to use. At first glance the community (on the sPvP forums specifically) comes across as very, very negative. Although complaining and whining are ubiquitous, I do not think that is the root of the problem. I believe the problem is more so in how it is carried out. Name calling, personal attacks, and cynicism are rampant. Not only is this directed at the developers, but also at one another.

Whining and complaining are not the problem, it is the behavior many use to carry it out. I understand that folks really care about the game, want it to succeed, and want it to meet their personal views of what will make it good, but I fail to see how that is an adequate excuse for refusing to act more mature. Nor is frustration with one another and the developers a valid excuse.

Could you imagine how much more inviting the game would be to those who stop by the forums and see objective, reasoned debate and disagreement rather than name calling, personal attacks, and cynicism? Some people behave rationally and their posts are little stars in the darkness, but it takes a whole community to define itself.

Is the Community just bad ?

Probably. Human nature to resist any form of change.

kirito.4138:

Is the Community just bad ?

Probably. Human nature to resist any form of change.

As it is human nature to think everyone who thinks differently from you is either stupid, dishonest, or ignorant.

Who invited the philosophers into this forum?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Who invited the philosophers into this forum?

Just wanted to say that if the naysayers are bad, the yaysayers who say naysayers are bad may be fascists as well

However, I do well at Skyhammer.

Said that, I think I do well in a cheesy way: in other maps I have to force enemies to walk into my hammer. Here is not needed: spaces are so narrow they can’t kite you properly.

people are tired of being considered stupid from ArenaNet.
there are those who is gone and there are those who remain to insult, here’s the comunity pvp, and primarily responsible for this situation are ArenaNet

redslion.9675:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Who invited the philosophers into this forum?

Just wanted to say that if the naysayers are bad, the yaysayers who say naysayers are bad may be fascists as well

However, I do well at Skyhammer.

Said that, I think I do well in a cheesy way: in other maps I have to force enemies to walk into my hammer. Here is not needed: spaces are so narrow they can’t kite you properly.

I just wanted to troll around, because it’s lazy friday

kirito.4138:

Is the Community just bad ?

Probably. Human nature to resist any form of change.

Not really, people accept that secondary objectives can make this game greater than just holding and bunkering 1 more point than your opponent. And these secondary objectives are great on Legacy of the foefire or on Temple of silent storm because you can make some incredible comebacks.
Even on Khylo, you have to decide when its good or not to use trebuchet. The trebuchet is not “imbalanced”, the aoe is enough large and you can dodge it. In skyhammer, you can’t dodge the cannon (mb it will change) and the aoe is larger. So, you are forced to play with the cannon. The fight near cannon forces people to adapt their build to bump/fear people and that’s a big problem. You are forced to play only certains builds/classes to play the cannon.

I think Skyhammer will be good if they remove destructible platforms near cannons and if they make the cannon dodgeable.

I’m not a pro player or smthg but I truely think this map is not oriented competitive play.

Don’t blame the negative feedback about a poorly designed gimmick map on a bad community.

There are so many different aspects to SPvP that can and need to be improved. It is disappointing to see the developers waste time and energy on new maps, when they will obviously never be played in Tournaments.

We have received 7 maps, but only the original 3 are playable in Tournaments.

When you say the community needs to adapt their playstyle, have you though about new players we still need to learn the gametype? They are being flung of this map and they don’t understand why or how to counter it, because they don’t get a chance to learn.

Stof.9584:

Don’t blame the negative feedback about a poorly designed gimmick map on a bad community.

There are so many different aspects to SPvP that can and need to be improved. It is disappointing to see the developers waste time and energy on new maps, when they will obviously never be played in Tournaments.

We have received 7 maps, but only the original 3 are playable in Tournaments.

When you say the community needs to adapt their playstyle, have you though about new players we still need to learn the gametype? They are being flung of this map and they don’t understand why or how to counter it, because they don’t get a chance to learn.

And why is it not playable as a Tournament? Why only the 3 first maps?
Temple is pretty much the same like those imo, and way better than
Foefire, which is the worst, and most boring map.

Foefire is still the Best map outside, highest funfactor cause AOE dmg got less priority than in the other small point maps… Teamfights are larger, bigger, better overview at all.

N1, absolutly top map

prozon.3561:

Foefire is still the Best map outside, highest funfactor cause AOE dmg got less priority than in the other small point maps… Teamfights are larger, bigger, better overview at all.

N1, absolutly top map

google.3709:

don’t want to adapt.

I keep hearing this left and right regarding Skyhammer but quite honestly what kind of adapting? Bringing a 5 bunker team with a lot of CC? Knockbacks and pull engineers? Rampage as One rangers with GS/LB? Fear specced necromansers (lol)? Sure sounds fun for the melees in this game that already have a hard time in any map out there. What kind of adapting really? Change your build to not have any damage at all and focus in survival and cc? Ok so a bunker? Lets not mention the insane buff to necromansers that we already have to deal in normal maps now we have to deal in this one which makes them able to kill people fearing them out?

I get that it brought build variety but this is NOT balancing. Balancing means that every build can be useful depending on the strategy your team has at any given map. With this “map mechanic” you are simple forcing people to necessarily run a certain build else they’re out.. just like in the other tournament maps people are “forced” to use the specs we know and call our meta atm. Also keep in mind not all classes has easy access to a heavy cc focused build, you would create a whole different kind of imbalances all over again.

Having said that i can agree the map was fun to play for abit.. but in no way a serious tournament match. Having also said that why the kitten is anet not focusing in the important stuff… such as a real solo queue?

Bad Community because we dont like SkyHammer on tpvp?! LOL
Well I agree that skyhammer is great map, old school and quake like. I have a lot of fun on it and I see lot of funny things there,BUT I playd it smth about 20 times on tournament (even that i lost only once) I dont think it is going to work.

I dont think on this map players need good skill, all they need is CC and check if opponent(’s) have stability. This map would be great on unranked tournaments, if we had sucha tpvp. Also for this kinda maps we need template builds or smth like that (Yes I am lazy), to change our builds for new map with few clicks.

About Community:
This is the most mixed community I faced and it is hard to talk about it as one whole.
Players from WoW wants more pve in pvp(even more casual and grinding pvp gear), while gw1 players want to see gw1 in gw2 and pro dont want to see big changes is game, so they dont have to change build and tactics.

yes, thief can stealth pull you but.. the animation is kinda slow and sound animation painfully obvious, and can be easily stun broken out of, and since they can’t try again for 30s.. they will either have to leave or engage in a normal fight.

I hear you mention necros can fear, engi can CC, but.. what about your class ? probably does too, so it’s not really uneven battles. it’s all about out playing the other person, pulls have painfully obvious animations and they can’t knock you down if you’re facing a wall. 3 simple concepts that the loud members of the community can’t seem to understand.

But like I said, the map is far from perfect, it’s just an example of a different play type, an innovative and creative map which impacts the meta and help things feel fresh and people keep rejecting since it’s different, and now because of a few loud voices, it’s out the rotation and probably won’t make it back in

saVdoom.2067:

I keep hearing this left and right regarding Skyhammer but quite honestly what kind of adapting? Bringing a 5 bunker team with a lot of CC? Knockbacks and pull engineers? Rampage as One rangers with GS/LB? Fear specced necromansers (lol)? Sure sounds fun for the melees in this game that already have a hard time in any map out there. What kind of adapting really? Change your build to not have any damage at all and focus in survival and cc? Ok so a bunker? Lets not mention the insane buff to necromansers that we already have to deal in normal maps now we have to deal in this one which makes them able to kill people fearing them out?

The adapting is paying attention to positioning, which is something anyone has never done before in this game, mainly because having a bad positioning had from little to no effect at all.

google.3709:

I hear you mention necros can fear, engi can CC, but.. what about your class ? probably does too, so it’s not really uneven battles. it’s all about out playing the other person

Oh yes sure, its all about out playing the other person. Sure a 5 full bursty group can win tournament against a balanced team right… right? There is indeed a slim chance but it is not happening against decent players, and you know why? Because a guardian is better in bunkering a node against a thief…. Because engineers are better in ccing versus a mesmer…. and so on. Because certain classes has easier access to stability in comparison with others.

google.3709:

pulls have painfully obvious animations and they can’t knock you down if you’re facing a wall. 3 simple concepts that the loud members of the community can’t seem to understand.

Sure a melee class will wave his melee weapon at you while you’re melting his kitten from range and close to the holes and just waiting for you to leave the wall for a little bit, to cc and then knock you out… sounds like fun.

sorrow.2364:

saVdoom.2067:

I keep hearing this left and right regarding Skyhammer but quite honestly what kind of adapting? Bringing a 5 bunker team with a lot of CC? Knockbacks and pull engineers? Rampage as One rangers with GS/LB? Fear specced necromansers (lol)? Sure sounds fun for the melees in this game that already have a hard time in any map out there. What kind of adapting really? Change your build to not have any damage at all and focus in survival and cc? Ok so a bunker? Lets not mention the insane buff to necromansers that we already have to deal in normal maps now we have to deal in this one which makes them able to kill people fearing them out?

The adapting is paying attention to positioning, which is something anyone has never done before in this game, mainly because having a bad positioning had from little to no effect at all.

If you never cared about positioning in a tournament match then it just means you haven’t played in the “meta” or against any other top team that will completely destroy you if you’re overextended or out of position.
I can’t count how many times i watched TP’s stream or the cast’d tournament streams where they will destroy somebody because he’s out of position or overextended in a tournament match, or because he pushed far node at the wrong time making the opposite team collapse at him while their bunker was holding mid and then collapsing at mid having 1 guy advantage.

Like any MMORPG where balance shouldnt be the 1st priority , why the maps should be balanced ?
I see too many contriviction lately , so i am kinda comfused .
Should incentive (new map = 19.000 clicks on youtube in the first week) , or balance be the first priority ?
I hope some1 asked it in the next SOTG …

saVdoom.2067:

If you never cared about positioning in a tournament match then it just means you haven’t played in the “meta” or against any other top team that will completely destroy you if you’re overextended or out of position.
I can’t count how many times i watched TP’s stream or the cast’d tournament streams where they will destroy somebody because he’s out of position or overextended in a tournament match, or because he pushed far node at the wrong time making the opposite team collapse at him while their bunker was holding mid and then collapsing at mid having 1 guy advantage.

This is a reductive way of seeing positioning.

I don’t know if you played GW1, but in that game positioning were crucial.
If your team did not paid enough attention to properly split up, the enemy pressure would have been 10x more effective.

In GW2, positioning has really no importance. You can ball up or split up and you can adjust your position in a blink.
In Skyhammer, on the other hand, if you have a wrong position in the wrong time, you’re dead, which is something that arguably none has experienced before in any PvP map.

sorrow.2364:

saVdoom.2067:

If you never cared about positioning in a tournament match then it just means you haven’t played in the “meta” or against any other top team that will completely destroy you if you’re overextended or out of position.
I can’t count how many times i watched TP’s stream or the cast’d tournament streams where they will destroy somebody because he’s out of position or overextended in a tournament match, or because he pushed far node at the wrong time making the opposite team collapse at him while their bunker was holding mid and then collapsing at mid having 1 guy advantage.

This is a reductive way of seeing positioning.

I don’t know if you played GW1, but in that game positioning were crucial.
If your team did not paid enough attention to properly split up, the enemy pressure would have been 10x more effective.

In GW2, positioning has really no importance. You can ball up or split up and you can adjust your position in a blink.
In Skyhammer, on the other hand, if you have a wrong position in the wrong time, you’re dead, which is something that arguably none has experienced before in any PvP map.

Yes and No. Gw2 require good possitioning aswell as in gw1 (well in gw1 it was more critical).

@Savdoom.2067

yes, it’s true that some classes are better than others. BUT…. If spec’ed for the map… Mesmer are much more deadly than engineers, engi have single target short range CC while Mesmer have skills such as Curtain Pull and GS 5 which are two of the strongest CC skills ingame.. as well as insane amounts of invulnerability and reflects, a non lazy Mesmer who’s willing to adapt their build would never lose to any engineer.

and if you’re taking about meele classes… I think ur forgetting that warriors have a little too much stability, smart s/d thief can actually port back up… perms evade ranger with rampage ? no matter how you put it, it all comes down to making an effective build for the map, which people aren’t doing….

sorrow.2364:

saVdoom.2067:

If you never cared about positioning in a tournament match then it just means you haven’t played in the “meta” or against any other top team that will completely destroy you if you’re overextended or out of position.
I can’t count how many times i watched TP’s stream or the cast’d tournament streams where they will destroy somebody because he’s out of position or overextended in a tournament match, or because he pushed far node at the wrong time making the opposite team collapse at him while their bunker was holding mid and then collapsing at mid having 1 guy advantage.

This is a reductive way of seeing positioning.

I don’t know if you played GW1, but in that game positioning were crucial.
If your team did not paid enough attention to properly split up, the enemy pressure would have been 10x more effective.

In GW2, positioning has really no importance. You can ball up or split up and you can adjust your position in a blink.
In Skyhammer, on the other hand, if you have a wrong position in the wrong time, you’re dead, which is something that arguably none has experienced before in any PvP map.

i’ll just quote someone else replying to you in your attempt to defend this map mechanic regarding positioning since i’m far to lazy to debate this myself:

Shar.3402:

Have you actually played this map against decent people? Considering your non-existant leaderboard ranking, I guess not.

Then you could tell me how a D/D Elementalist / Dps Guardian / Warrior are supposed to “position” themselves when they have to go into melee range of someone using the cannon…yeah, that puts them right in the middle of the cannon platform.
Or maybe you could tell me how a melee class is supposed to hold a side point with his back to the wall, all the time…hoping a stealthed thief doesn’t pull you down

the problem is a large number of whiners and complainers came to vent on the forums after failing hard and getting stomped on the new Skyhammer map

while the good and pro players that are enjoying the new map and Winning are busy fighting so they’re not coming to the forums as much.

Too bad ArenaNet is choosing to listen to the naysayers instead of their own playtesters and the many many people that are having fun with the map.

I hate this map, but despite that I played as many matches as I could over the last few days. I’ve tried so many builds I can’t remember them all. My last one was using Elixir X with traits to reduce the CD to 84 seconds and increase the duration to 20/26 seconds (tornado/rampage). This is the MOST frequent stability I can get as an engineer aside from ONE second from Rumble (Turret tool belt skill). I don’t count Toss Elixir S because it’s random. I need stability because I don’t want to get killed over and over due to one badly timed dodge or because of the unreal amount of fear and knockback I’m running into.

I’m useless on the cannon because I have no stability. I’m slightly less useless on the side points, but will lose any prolonged fight where I don’t insta jib the other player first. It’s all about who lands their knockback first. If I don’t have split second timing I lose.

My turrets are useless because if they are placed on a point or are in a position to threaten a point they will get wiped by ONE Skyhammer strike.

I dare not use Rocket Boots, Acid Bomb, Overcharged Shot, or Rampage form’s Dash unless my positioning and targeting are flawless. Even in central areas of the map a poorly aimed Rocket Boots used to escape can cause lethal falling damage.

I have one pull I can use to get someone off of a ledge or a point. Then they just ignore me and run away.

I have no way to get past necromancer wells that cover the entire approach to a side point and enjoy complete immunity to skyhammer strikes unlike my form of area denial (turrets). If I try to move out of range of the skyhammer aoe which cannot be dodged I’m risking getting too close to an edge opening myself up to yet more easy kills.

Last night I actually ran into multiple guardian/necro teams. My night ended vs. a 3 guard/2 necro team. It was the first match out of over 1200 that I felt compelled to leave. That is saying something. If adapting involves giving up the profession I love and playing degenerate team comps, then I don’t want to adapt.

saVdoom.2067:

i’ll just quote someone else replying to you in your attempt to defend this map mechanic regarding positioning since i’m far to lazy to debate this myself:

Shar.3402:

Have you actually played this map against decent people? Considering your non-existant leaderboard ranking, I guess not.

Then you could tell me how a D/D Elementalist / Dps Guardian / Warrior are supposed to “position” themselves when they have to go into melee range of someone using the cannon…yeah, that puts them right in the middle of the cannon platform.
Or maybe you could tell me how a melee class is supposed to hold a side point with his back to the wall, all the time…hoping a stealthed thief doesn’t pull you down

Is there any melee only profession in this game I wasn’t aware of?

Anyway, someone in the middle of the cannon platform is fine as long as the line which pass on both players doesn’t end up in a cliff (enemy – you – cliff).
It isn’t hard to do at all.

Skyhammer wasn’t fun.

What people want is deathmatch, so people like maps that present the least obtrusive mechanics and allow players to actually fight against each other.

The community is what the game makes it. There is no such thing as a “bad” community only one that’s been poorly shaped and motivated.

Pandabro.8743:

The community is what the game makes it. There is no such thing as a “bad” community only one that’s been poorly shaped and motivated.

But the community effects the game too
Like <<all classes should brought up>> (cough* necro cough*) , and then <<OMFG ARE U GUYS DRUNK ? WTF UR DOIGN ?! >> :P
Or <<The game dont need balance>> and then <,WTF , U @@ FOR THIS MESS, SKYHAMMER SUX !>> :p

Skyhammer is a fun map for those with a lot of stability, blocks and knockbacks. For those who don’t have “spammable” access to those things, it’s a different story entirely. The community wants a meta change but not a meta change that forces only one type of build.

Spirit Watch did it well I think, even though people don’t really like that map, the map really made people think about builds to run the orb or slow down the orb runner and mobility in general because that map is all about being in multiple places really quickly. For most people, their builds didn’t change, but the way they played their builds and positioned their characters definitely changed for that map.

google.3709:

@Savdoom.2067

yes, it’s true that some classes are better than others. BUT…. If spec’ed for the map… Mesmer are much more deadly than engineers, engi have single target short range CC while Mesmer have skills such as Curtain Pull and GS 5 which are two of the strongest CC skills ingame.. as well as insane amounts of invulnerability and reflects, a non lazy Mesmer who’s willing to adapt their build would never lose to any engineer.

and if you’re taking about meele classes… I think ur forgetting that warriors have a little too much stability, smart s/d thief can actually port back up… perms evade ranger with rampage ? no matter how you put it, it all comes down to making an effective build for the map, which people aren’t doing….

This is the thing. Now why would i go through changing my class’s build to try achieve 60-70% of CC/stability that some other classes has it much easier. I’ll just log on a necro, engineer or guardian and have access to spammable cc. And in a map like this it is actually viable to run 5 bunkers…

Now if you try run 5 bunkers in an actual balanced map, such as Legacy, you will be countered easily since if you get forced into team fights you won’t be able to kill anything since you don’t have a “1 shot” mechanic.

Dirame.8521:

Skyhammer is a fun map for those with a lot of stability, blocks and knockbacks. For those who don’t have “spammable” access to those things, it’s a different story entirely. The community wants a meta change but not a meta change that forces only one type of build.

Agreed. Hai Ziggs <3

Dirame.8521:

Skyhammer is a fun map for those with a lot of stability, blocks and knockbacks. For those who don’t have “spammable” access to those things, it’s a different story entirely. The community wants a meta change but not a meta change that forces only one type of build.

Spirit Watch did it well I think, even though people don’t really like that map, the map really made people think about builds to run the orb or slow down the orb runner and mobility in general because that map is all about being in multiple places really quickly. For most people, their builds didn’t change, but the way they played their builds and positioned their characters definitely changed for that map.

Spirit Watch was the same as Skyhammer. Less mobile classes didnt enjoy it, especially prepatch necros. Thats why community dont really like the maps, where some classes are less effective, then others. Additional Spirit Watch and Skyhammer second objectives are mostly equal to primary objectives.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

But the community effects the game too
Like <<all classes should brought up>> (cough* necro cough*) , and then <<OMFG ARE U GUYS DRUNK ? WTF UR DOIGN ?! >> :P
Or <<The game dont need balance>> and then <,WTF , U @@ FOR THIS MESS, SKYHAMMER SUX !>> :p

What you described is the game effecting the community.

thank you for speaking up against the tyrannical power that’s been dominating the PvP forums, sir!

Skyhammer came down as my favorite map so far, not because it is new, but because it encourages creative positioning. I really had fun on this map using new meta but I also was expecting such a backlash from the forums….Skyhammer has too many features. These set the bar too high, other old maps just cannot compare at all.

IT SUCKS BIG TIME that Skyhammer is getting removed……a waste of effort for such a great map

The new map makes bunkering more fun! Plus everyone loves guard for the tons of stability I bring to the table.

The level of play has no reason to be very high so that part is true. There’s nothing to win and afaik no easy way for the community to organize its own tourneys/leagues.

However they are not wrong about skyhammer—when I can stack stealth or immob and get free insta kills with pull, with little or no interaction, something is wrong. It’s nice to be such a potent point assaulter as thief but when it revolves around hiding til my tools are ready it’s not very interesting.

This is only encouraged by the fact that you can’t stick around anyway because of the cannon, and you are often 1v1 because cannon…

This map was extremely fun and extremely hilarious. Some things that it really made it stand out from other maps.

1. Positioning- Now we can go on all day about how people think positioning is important in all maps. But face the facts bad positioning in relation to you enemy was never that big of a deal. Sure your positioning on the map over all may be if you were extended too far from your team but I am talking in relation to the one opponent you are facing at the time. The fights on this map really felt more intense because you were either
A. Fighting with your back against the wall trying not to get pulled into the sand wurms or you were trying to position it so you run over the glass and then pull someone on there and you run off… (apparently that takes no skill or timing…) If you mess up well then you are both taking a huge sand nap. I had this happen where a necro spectral grasped me on to the glass but he didn’t get off as soon as we got to the bottom in /say we both just said “hahahahahahahahahaha” which brings me to my next point.

THIS MAP IS FUN and competitive. IMO fun should come first. There is nothing more hilarious than sitting on B and you look over and see 2 or 3 people falling to their deaths because the animation is hilarious.

This map forces a new meta that is specific to this map. Now some people hate it. Most of the people I played with loved it. Even some people in my guild (a warrior) said he hated all the CC and he hates that his build doesn’t work for the map… Simple solution CHANGE YOUR FREAKING BUILD! Hammer warriors with kick and fear me and rampage (lol it finally has a purpose) are amazing on this map. Yet some people just don’t want to adapt but they just scream they hate the map.
I have read somewhere that Anet doesn’t want people to use the same build for every single map in tournaments…. So why do people get all bent out of shape when there is finally a map that encourages a new build for your class?

People say there is not counter play to this map? To be honest this is the first map where there is a large amount of counterplay other than just bunkering a point and hoping you don’t get condition spammed to death. Stability is more than a minor annoyance. Knockbacks and pulls are way more threatening. The fact that this map makes you build for it is what makes it great.
Anet bring the map back into rated matches and tournament rotations.
To the players build for the map enjoy it and make laugh as you play because after all its just a game <3

jportell.2197:

-massive post cut-

Gotta quote this.

But many people just want the same, stale old meta with guardian bunkering points and so on, so unfortunately it won’t happen.

jportell.2197:

This map was extremely fun and extremely hilarious. Some things that it really made it stand out from other maps.

1. Positioning- Now we can go on all day about how people think positioning is important in all maps. But face the facts bad positioning in relation to you enemy was never that big of a deal. Sure your positioning on the map over all may be if you were extended too far from your team but I am talking in relation to the one opponent you are facing at the time. The fights on this map really felt more intense because you were either
A. Fighting with your back against the wall trying not to get pulled into the sand wurms or you were trying to position it so you run over the glass and then pull someone on there and you run off… (apparently that takes no skill or timing…) If you mess up well then you are both taking a huge sand nap. I had this happen where a necro spectral grasped me on to the glass but he didn’t get off as soon as we got to the bottom in /say we both just said “hahahahahahahahahaha” which brings me to my next point.

THIS MAP IS FUN and competitive. IMO fun should come first. There is nothing more hilarious than sitting on B and you look over and see 2 or 3 people falling to their deaths because the animation is hilarious.

This map forces a new meta that is specific to this map. Now some people hate it. Most of the people I played with loved it. Even some people in my guild (a warrior) said he hated all the CC and he hates that his build doesn’t work for the map… Simple solution CHANGE YOUR FREAKING BUILD! Hammer warriors with kick and fear me and rampage (lol it finally has a purpose) are amazing on this map. Yet some people just don’t want to adapt but they just scream they hate the map.
I have read somewhere that Anet doesn’t want people to use the same build for every single map in tournaments…. So why do people get all bent out of shape when there is finally a map that encourages a new build for your class?

People say there is not counter play to this map? To be honest this is the first map where there is a large amount of counterplay other than just bunkering a point and hoping you don’t get condition spammed to death. Stability is more than a minor annoyance. Knockbacks and pulls are way more threatening. The fact that this map makes you build for it is what makes it great.
Anet bring the map back into rated matches and tournament rotations.
To the players build for the map enjoy it and make laugh as you play because after all its just a game <3

QFT
~sigh it is no wonder people would do all the zergfest in hotjoin, cos for some it really is how the envisioned “good” PvP should be, in their mind~

+1 from me.

skyhammer needs a few tweaks, but it is a pretty good map for tournament play. if anything, the closest, most exciting matches i’ve had recently were on skyhammer.

contrary to popular belief, the cannon is actually what allows for strong comebacks if your team coordinates properly. i’ve gone from 200×400 to 498×500 in a match (both teams scored a kill at the same time, but they were 2 points ahead, even though they had no captured points left).