Guild Wars 2

One of the problems I have with sPvP right now as a defensive/healing engineer is that I get half the glory or less compared to the members of my team that roam and kill, however we will nearly always win the match thanks to my ability to stay on a point and defend it well.

Killing people clearly yields more glory. In fact, it actually yields double glory if you aren’t at one of the objectives (10 per skirmish kill versus 5 per kill).

I know this isn’t the first time it’s been mentioned here, but I feel something should be done to retie glory to winning the matches. The easiest of which would be to increase the glory win bonus. I wouldn’t mind that nobody from the other team is willing to try to take me off my point (thus I don’t even get the chance for a defender or kill score) if I knew that in the end I helped my team win and was compensated better for it. Something more difficult would be to include defensive glory ticks (staying at the same objective your team owns yields 5 points per every 30s or something like that).

Basically, I am contributing to winning, but that effort is not being rewarded in any significant way right now and the end result is discouraging, since the objective appears to be to get to 500 points first, but the rewards are entirely for simply killing indiscriminately.

I see this as similar to my problem as a defensive/support/healing engineer in WvWvW who keeps his whole team alive until they win the tower/objective, but receives little if any bags of loot/badges for his effort.

The point is to gain glory, not to win matches (except how winning affects your personal glory gain). This is different from tournaments where the point is to win. That seems to be the part that most people get hung up on, the mistaken belief that the goal is winning and that winning is incentivized. The goal is not to win, winning just gives you some glory which helps you achieve your real goal of personal glory gain. Think I’m wrong? I know you’ve seen people putting together tournament teams requiring Rank 20, or 30, or 80000, or whatever it’s at today. As long as people care about rank, then the goal of the random arenas is to gain rank and that’s it.

If glory is tied to winning matches and not individual actions then you get bots running 24/7, even if it’s just a small amount of the glory tied in that way.

If you want to win more glory, play in a manner that wins more glory. If you want to win matches, play with that goal in mind. If you want to just practice defending a node then take the most critical node and camp out.

If you want to play to win, join a tournament.

I believe the glory system needs to be reworked. Casual bunker build players are disadvantaged, while high dps/burst builds can gain glory so much faster. This is a big issue for classes like elementalist, where glass cannon builds are not currently appropriate for casual players. In SPVP at least, points should be awarded for standing on and defending a held point.

Edit: I would also like an arena type mode to be added for those that just want to kill other players without involving strategy.

If they were to somehow give points to those that simply stay on points to defend them they should split those points between all those present. If only 5 points are given every 30 sec, those 5 points should be randomly split as evenly as possible to all those present.

If they were to promote wins then they would be doing two things: putting a great deal of focus on actually winning and promoting point defense. In hotjoin the idea is to get in and have fun with a bit of reckless abandon, it isn’t supposed to be overly stressful. Losing is never much fun, but if in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter much because you still get about the same reward then it isn’t worrisome. Obviously this is not the case with tournaments where winning is the whole point.

If you promote point defense you dramatically increase the number of players that build defensively and you will see tanky types become the norm. Suddenly now no-one can do enough damage to kill one another and it becomes a big stalemate … I cannot imagine such an outcome will have any sense of progression and instead be a lot of frustration.

I’m not saying a happy medium cannot be reached, I’m just saying it is important to consider what exactly is being asked for overall.

This is why I feel the scoring system needs to be adjusted… people play a certain way in 8v8, then they join tPvP and they don’t have a clue what to do. 8v8 should play in such a way to ween people into tPvP, but as it stands it actually handicaps new players.

In my opinion points should only be awarded on a win or loss, and nothing else should affect an individuals points gain. BUT… the devs would need to make a good system to weed out the botters.

If you’re talking about random sPvP servers, then the goal is to get the most glory and that’s done mostly by point trading. Like you said there’s little glory in defending points. Also getting defending node kills helps a lot. You want to avoid the enemy Zerg as much as possible and target drops and high mobility/damage helps with it all.

Generally, farming glory and bunkering is pretty boring. If you’re looking to win, you should look at many different classes/builds and play against other people looking to win. aka free tourneys. Also rank really doesn’t matter, as long as what a person’s asking for is w/in ~10 levels of your rank I would say just lie and you should be fine.

P.S. Ya, the glory incentivization is just off imo. Winning SHOULD be more important.

I hate to say this, but I would have never thought that Anet could design such a flawed system where you get rewards for zerging rather than playing the objectives.

The scoreboard at the end of the game has zero useful information and should be removed. It’s just a cause for feeling bad, especially if you actually tried to win the game. 4 “top ranking” players in a losing team, really? Top players that just zerged (at enemy spawn) ignoring cap points, really? Least glory for a player that successfully defended under water point the whole game, really? Least glory for a player who took down opposing Lord singlehandedly earning 150 points for the team, really? Awful game design right there.

The current systems also favors classes that can easily tag multiple players.

I don’t care if the glory gain stays as it is, just don’t show it at the end as something that everyone should aim at. Then please give the winning team a token that they can use to get something that everyone least bit interested in cosmetics WILL WANT (or points toward a title, or whatever).

2c

Lose game

Get 4x the score

On the other hand, a single person cant really affect the game enough to turn it into a win. You will also be joining a lot of games late, which are usually a loss. We cant make winning too important either or glory gain will become a dice roll. And imagine the masses of extra leavers when this will be the situation, the auto balance would drive me insane. People would AFK at the start point if they just joined from the NPC, as every such game would be a loss and thus a waste of time. Not to mention the botters.

If you like to be a bunker spec that doesnt die and enjoy standing still on a circle, there are plenty of tournament teams that would like to have you. You can be rewarded for speccing easy near-immortality in there to your hearts’ content. With even better rewards than in hotjoin.

I mean how awesome is it if a team gets destroyed at each pvp fight then ends up winning just cause they killed a pve lord or last hitted a pve creep. I dont think such things should award massive amounts of glory. At the current system, you can at least keep a good steady amount of glory going by consistantly playing well. This is a rather tough yet delicate issue if you think about it and not as clear cut as most of you make it out to be.

GankSinatra.2653:

I mean how awesome is it if a team gets destroyed at each pvp fight then ends up winning just cause they killed a pve lord or last hitted a pve creep.

Well, this was pretty much the case in GW1 GvG. A team could win by killing a Guild Lord even though they seemed to be losing the whole time. It just means that people would have to focus on actual tactics, objectives that game designers placed there for a reason. I see no point in maps with a Win condition and objectives if they don’t matter at all, or just a tiny bit.

I don’t pretend to be a game designer and right out tell Anet what they should do. I just know that the current system is weird and unrewarding, and I would call it bad game design. GW1 casual pvp, even with the leechers, was much better designed and helluva more rewarding in this respect.

Shieldbreaker.4012:

The point is to gain glory, not to win matches (except how winning affects your personal glory gain). This is different from tournaments where the point is to win. That seems to be the part that most people get hung up on, the mistaken belief that the goal is winning and that winning is incentivized. The goal is not to win, winning just gives you some glory which helps you achieve your real goal of personal glory gain. Think I’m wrong? I know you’ve seen people putting together tournament teams requiring Rank 20, or 30, or 80000, or whatever it’s at today. As long as people care about rank, then the goal of the random arenas is to gain rank and that’s it.

If glory is tied to winning matches and not individual actions then you get bots running 24/7, even if it’s just a small amount of the glory tied in that way.

If you want to win more glory, play in a manner that wins more glory. If you want to win matches, play with that goal in mind. If you want to just practice defending a node then take the most critical node and camp out.

If you want to play to win, join a tournament.

this is a horrible way to look at this, and this opinion here is why alot of folks stop Pvping altogether, i PvP to win no matter the game mode, i want to beat the other team. This is why ANet has to make playing to win more attractive than playing for glory. change the glor rewards so you get more glory for kills at points and increase the bonus for glory on the win would be a great way to start. regardless of the game mode

I think the best solution would be the system similar to WoT’s, it’s the best one I have encountered so far.