Guild Wars 2

Hello,

After playing PvP for a bit for rewards I still don’t understand why killing enemies gives so little points while capturing points gives so much.

From what I can see just holding a point for many hours is better than killing off an enemy. So it’s actually better to bunker up to the point where enemy would need at least 2-3 of their team to take you down.

I found myself winning matches, and actually get top score without killing a thing! Crazy right? This shouldn’t happen.

To make things worse, engaging in a fight outside of points in no mans land is autoloss especially if your team comes to your aid. Everything just takes so long to kill because of downed state and by the time you killed, you would lose 2 of your points and gained some kittenty 5 points for the kill (something tiny like that).

Why? I have no reason to kill enemies now. At least in WvW there is a clear incentive to kill each other, and you will rarely see an enemy that would just run past you. In PvP any player with a brain will avoid no mans land fights like fire.

Why that is so?

I think it’s good. What’s the inherent benefit of killing someone over holding a point?

Spirigo.2897:

I found myself winning matches, and actually get top score without killing a thing! Crazy right? This shouldn’t happen.

Lol no it’s alrigtht.

In hotjoins the incentive to kill is low because no one defend points, and its very easy to score 20 points by backcapping empty bases.

In PvP when I have downed a player, I aim to just keep them in a downed state as long as possible because they are no threat and not scoring points well helpless. I think its a pretty good tactic. I only kill them if they are blocking capping a point or if there is more than 1 enemy player of course, because they can rez them back up.

Kept some players in a downed state 30-60 secs before they died…am I being cruel?

Obviously when I do this I am bunkering a point as well.

Kept some players in a downed state 30-60 secs before they died…am I being cruel?

^ This works best.

Redg.9807:

Spirigo.2897:

I found myself winning matches, and actually get top score without killing a thing! Crazy right? This shouldn’t happen.

Lol no it’s alrigtht.

Stop trolling.

Think you need to understand your points do not matter one bit to how well you have helped your team. What matters is the score at the end of the game. Holding points gets you a guaranteed amount of points. While killing people is sporadic, the game is about conquering points and holding on to them to gain more points faster then the other team. Many players forget the goal of the game, they think its about going around kitten ing in kitten iland.

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

You win with points, and winning is what matters. So backcap away, noble pvper.

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

In this game the PvP is mainly based around running and standing on empty points. That is how you win. Killing people doesn’t give enough points to be worthwhile which is why those trying to be competitive in this game will play with between 3-5 bunkers.

Untill they give 15 points per kill then this won’t change. PvP stands for Player vs Point

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

Exactly. The reward for playing a bunker is huge, whilst the risk (5 points if you die) are minimal when stalling a point. Any bunker can survive long enough on a point to gain 5 or 6 times the amount of points they will lose when they eventually die in a 1v2. There is simply no reward for a team who try and kill the opposition vs a team who simply try and survive on points.

killing is important because if you don’t kill anyone then you will eventually be outnumbered and die and lose the point. killing enemies prevents outnumbered situations. outnumbered situations lose points. therefore killing prevents losing points.

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

And if you don’t kill a bunker, you lose the game. Your point being? Two DPS classes can easily take out any bunker all things and skill being equal. Especially true after the engi’s AR nerf.

A skilless bunker will not last. A skillful bunker will last. A poor DPS will not kill a bunker. A good DPS can (depends on the build of course. Not all DPS builds are the same and neither are all bunkers. There’s a bit of rock paper scissors going on, but so what?)

You don’t even really need to kill the bunker. Just push them off point (easy with the right build in any map other than foefire mid).

Solstice.1097:

killing is important because if you don’t kill anyone then you will eventually be outnumbered and die and lose the point. killing enemies prevents outnumbered situations. outnumbered situations lose points. therefore killing prevents losing points.

Eventually. But in reality you get 2 capped and then they will just bunker a node forever. By the time you kill someone another has respawned and is back. This can continue for 4-5 minutes before you eventually win the fight and by that time it is 300-100. The other team will have 40 points per player because all they have done is delay you all game. Hard to stomp vs bunker teams because they can all res. Hard to focus anyone. If you want to kill them you probably need 5 people. If you do this then you lose the other two points and the bunker team repeats the process.

So this game is a miserable experience where the way to win is to play specs which do no damage but survive (some do both like ranger/warrior/thief). Bunker specs take way less skill and are generally more forgiving than dps specs. Yet bunker specs are inherently rewarded by the game mode and the scoring system. It is boring and it is why (imo) the most talented pvpers stick to WvW and not PvP

First off, you shouldn’t be getting top score if you are just capping. Most ppl with top score are the ones who kill most of the enemies and/or backcap everything. For you to constantly backcap everything means your enemy team is bad.

Second, you say you can just play bunker and win, but try it, try running a full bunker team in teamq and see how it fairs. The cost of being a bunker is mobility and dps. You can stand around the point all day but if the team is anywhere decent, they should be able to coordinate outnumbered fights due to bunkers having this tendency to sit on a point.

Third, if it takes 3 people to take a bunker down, Those 3 people need to learn how to not spam skills and time things. Any good player should be able to kill a bunker 1v1 but it may take longer than normal, but a 2v1 should not last more than a regular 1v1 fight. Plus you shouldn’t be 2v1ing a bunker. One person is sufficient to keep the person busy unless the point is capped, then you both you should be going elsewhere to fight not where a bunker is on a capped point.

Fourth, no man’s land is fine to fight on if you can keep track of everyone’s locations. Sometimes taking far allows you to spawn camp that one guy your team just killed. If your fight doesn’t cost you a cap point aka your teammates are dealing with everyone else why not since it’ll prevent the person you are fighting against to reach their team/cap point (but never let people decap you while doing this, awareness is crucial).

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

And if you don’t kill a bunker, you lose the game. Your point being? Two DPS classes can easily take out any bunker all things and skill being equal. Especially true after the engi’s AR nerf.

A skilless bunker will not last. A skillful bunker will last. A poor DPS will not kill a bunker. A good DPS can (depends on the build of course. Not all DPS builds are the same and neither are all bunkers. There’s a bit of rock paper scissors going on, but so what?)

You don’t even really need to kill the bunker. Just push them off point (easy with the right build in any map other than foefire mid).

My point being is that you end up with lose lose situation. Isn’t that obvious?

Bunkers get HUGE benefit from doing what they’re doing while the enemy gains minimal reward for spending a massive amount of time trying to kill them. Since 2-3 people are needed to kill a bunker semi-fast it means that bunker’s team can capture other points more easily.

Basically: If they don’t kill bunker, they lose. If they kill bunker, they also lose.

There is no rock paper scissors going on; it’s just rock.

Another problem is that the PvP here is not intuitive at all. A new player will have no idea how important these points are and what to do to capture them because there is no tutorial to teach them. This makes PvP really frustrating because you will get people who have no idea how to play with or against the meta.

Rickster.8752:

Solstice.1097:

killing is important because if you don’t kill anyone then you will eventually be outnumbered and die and lose the point. killing enemies prevents outnumbered situations. outnumbered situations lose points. therefore killing prevents losing points.

Eventually. But in reality you get 2 capped and then they will just bunker a node forever. By the time you kill someone another has respawned and is back. This can continue for 4-5 minutes before you eventually win the fight and by that time it is 300-100. The other team will have 40 points per player because all they have done is delay you all game. Hard to stomp vs bunker teams because they can all res. Hard to focus anyone. If you want to kill them you probably need 5 people. If you do this then you lose the other two points and the bunker team repeats the process.

So this game is a miserable experience where the way to win is to play specs which do no damage but survive (some do both like ranger/warrior/thief). Bunker specs take way less skill and are generally more forgiving than dps specs. Yet bunker specs are inherently rewarded by the game mode and the scoring system. It is boring and it is why (imo) the most talented pvpers stick to WvW and not PvP

Lol, you can keep your opinion to yourself. There’s no point in stating something that cannot be proven. The two game types are uncomparable. Good in wvw pvp <> spvp pvp.

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

And if you don’t kill a bunker, you lose the game. Your point being? Two DPS classes can easily take out any bunker all things and skill being equal. Especially true after the engi’s AR nerf.

A skilless bunker will not last. A skillful bunker will last. A poor DPS will not kill a bunker. A good DPS can (depends on the build of course. Not all DPS builds are the same and neither are all bunkers. There’s a bit of rock paper scissors going on, but so what?)

You don’t even really need to kill the bunker. Just push them off point (easy with the right build in any map other than foefire mid).

My point being is that you end up with lose lose situation. Isn’t that obvious?

Bunkers get HUGE benefit from doing what they’re doing while the enemy gains minimal reward for spending a massive amount of time trying to kill them. Since 2-3 people are needed to kill a bunker semi-fast it means that bunker’s team can capture other points more easily.

Basically: If they don’t kill bunker, they lose. If they kill bunker, they also lose.

There is no rock paper scissors going on; it’s just rock.

Another problem is that the PvP here is not intuitive at all. A new player will have no idea how important these points are and what to do to capture them because there is no tutorial to teach them. This makes PvP really frustrating because you will get people who have no idea how to play with or against the meta.

Stop fighting it. Almost everyone here has disagreed with you for a reason. You’re wrong.

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

And if you don’t kill a bunker, you lose the game. Your point being? Two DPS classes can easily take out any bunker all things and skill being equal. Especially true after the engi’s AR nerf.

A skilless bunker will not last. A skillful bunker will last. A poor DPS will not kill a bunker. A good DPS can (depends on the build of course. Not all DPS builds are the same and neither are all bunkers. There’s a bit of rock paper scissors going on, but so what?)

You don’t even really need to kill the bunker. Just push them off point (easy with the right build in any map other than foefire mid).

My point being is that you end up with lose lose situation. Isn’t that obvious?

Bunkers get HUGE benefit from doing what they’re doing while the enemy gains minimal reward for spending a massive amount of time trying to kill them. Since 2-3 people are needed to kill a bunker semi-fast it means that bunker’s team can capture other points more easily.

Basically: If they don’t kill bunker, they lose. If they kill bunker, they also lose.

There is no rock paper scissors going on; it’s just rock.

Another problem is that the PvP here is not intuitive at all. A new player will have no idea how important these points are and what to do to capture them because there is no tutorial to teach them. This makes PvP really frustrating because you will get people who have no idea how to play with or against the meta.

Ye bunkers just give so much benefit it is ridiculous. I would make another suggestion:
1, Make kills worth 15 points each
2, When people cap a point give them an NPC which must be killed before the other team can cap that point. This stops bunkers running to a point and capping it.

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

And if you don’t kill a bunker, you lose the game. Your point being? Two DPS classes can easily take out any bunker all things and skill being equal. Especially true after the engi’s AR nerf.

A skilless bunker will not last. A skillful bunker will last. A poor DPS will not kill a bunker. A good DPS can (depends on the build of course. Not all DPS builds are the same and neither are all bunkers. There’s a bit of rock paper scissors going on, but so what?)

You don’t even really need to kill the bunker. Just push them off point (easy with the right build in any map other than foefire mid).

My point being is that you end up with lose lose situation. Isn’t that obvious?

Bunkers get HUGE benefit from doing what they’re doing while the enemy gains minimal reward for spending a massive amount of time trying to kill them. Since 2-3 people are needed to kill a bunker semi-fast it means that bunker’s team can capture other points more easily.

Basically: If they don’t kill bunker, they lose. If they kill bunker, they also lose.

There is no rock paper scissors going on; it’s just rock.

Another problem is that the PvP here is not intuitive at all. A new player will have no idea how important these points are and what to do to capture them because there is no tutorial to teach them. This makes PvP really frustrating because you will get people who have no idea how to play with or against the meta.

You are being too general here. Pure bunker specs can definitely stay alive, but they can’t kill. Any good glass canon class can run around a point stalling it as much as the bunker can when 1v1 with him. Really depends on what class/build you are talking about at this point.

Rickster.8752:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

And if you don’t kill a bunker, you lose the game. Your point being? Two DPS classes can easily take out any bunker all things and skill being equal. Especially true after the engi’s AR nerf.

A skilless bunker will not last. A skillful bunker will last. A poor DPS will not kill a bunker. A good DPS can (depends on the build of course. Not all DPS builds are the same and neither are all bunkers. There’s a bit of rock paper scissors going on, but so what?)

You don’t even really need to kill the bunker. Just push them off point (easy with the right build in any map other than foefire mid).

My point being is that you end up with lose lose situation. Isn’t that obvious?

Bunkers get HUGE benefit from doing what they’re doing while the enemy gains minimal reward for spending a massive amount of time trying to kill them. Since 2-3 people are needed to kill a bunker semi-fast it means that bunker’s team can capture other points more easily.

Basically: If they don’t kill bunker, they lose. If they kill bunker, they also lose.

There is no rock paper scissors going on; it’s just rock.

Another problem is that the PvP here is not intuitive at all. A new player will have no idea how important these points are and what to do to capture them because there is no tutorial to teach them. This makes PvP really frustrating because you will get people who have no idea how to play with or against the meta.

Ye bunkers just give so much benefit it is ridiculous. I would make another suggestion:
1, Make kills worth 15 points each
2, When people cap a point give them an NPC which must be killed before the other team can cap that point. This stops bunkers running to a point and capping it.

It’s more constructive to layout builds and their imbalanced status than just say —- “bunkers specs are ridiculous”. That doesn’t help anybody learn anything or know what to balance. It’s already been known that decap engis, warriors, spirit rangers were an issue because they had a bunker spec that either could do good dps and/or had way too many knockbacks compared to other classes which conquest mode does favor. Just list pros and cons in the same manner for the build you notice to be over the top.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Rickster.8752:

Solstice.1097:

killing is important because if you don’t kill anyone then you will eventually be outnumbered and die and lose the point. killing enemies prevents outnumbered situations. outnumbered situations lose points. therefore killing prevents losing points.

Eventually. But in reality you get 2 capped and then they will just bunker a node forever. By the time you kill someone another has respawned and is back. This can continue for 4-5 minutes before you eventually win the fight and by that time it is 300-100. The other team will have 40 points per player because all they have done is delay you all game. Hard to stomp vs bunker teams because they can all res. Hard to focus anyone. If you want to kill them you probably need 5 people. If you do this then you lose the other two points and the bunker team repeats the process.

So this game is a miserable experience where the way to win is to play specs which do no damage but survive (some do both like ranger/warrior/thief). Bunker specs take way less skill and are generally more forgiving than dps specs. Yet bunker specs are inherently rewarded by the game mode and the scoring system. It is boring and it is why (imo) the most talented pvpers stick to WvW and not PvP

Lol, you can keep your opinion to yourself. There’s no point in stating something that cannot be proven. The two game types are uncomparable. Good in wvw pvp <> spvp pvp.

Every time a thread like this pops up there will always be that one guy being all “But in super high end PvP everything is fine and dandy!”

You’ve made some good points I won’t deny that but just because an elite few can enjoy this after over a year of practice doesn’t mean everything is fine. Because there are many problems. Very many.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Rickster.8752:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

bhagwad.4281:

Spirigo.2897:

Redg.9807:

I’m not trolling.
PvP is about point capture and sometime it does not require to kill players to achieve this and that’s perfectly fine.

It promotes passive play to much. You are better off tanking at your own points than trying to capture enemy or kill enemy to prevent them from capture. That is wrong.

You feel that tanking your own points and backcapping an opponent’s point when they’re not there is “passive play”? Why?

Because you just sit at a point and do nothing. The builds that pop up as a result of how PvP is are what most would consider lame and boring.

Stalling a point gives you so much, while trying to get it back from you gives almost nothing in comparison.

I’ve fought many good bunkers who are skillfully able to mitigate my damage. That is the very opposite of “doing nothing”. If you could explain what you mean by “doing nothing”, it would be helpful.

This is not about skill. If you killed a bunker chances are you also lost the game. Thats the point.

And if you don’t kill a bunker, you lose the game. Your point being? Two DPS classes can easily take out any bunker all things and skill being equal. Especially true after the engi’s AR nerf.

A skilless bunker will not last. A skillful bunker will last. A poor DPS will not kill a bunker. A good DPS can (depends on the build of course. Not all DPS builds are the same and neither are all bunkers. There’s a bit of rock paper scissors going on, but so what?)

You don’t even really need to kill the bunker. Just push them off point (easy with the right build in any map other than foefire mid).

My point being is that you end up with lose lose situation. Isn’t that obvious?

Bunkers get HUGE benefit from doing what they’re doing while the enemy gains minimal reward for spending a massive amount of time trying to kill them. Since 2-3 people are needed to kill a bunker semi-fast it means that bunker’s team can capture other points more easily.

Basically: If they don’t kill bunker, they lose. If they kill bunker, they also lose.

There is no rock paper scissors going on; it’s just rock.

Another problem is that the PvP here is not intuitive at all. A new player will have no idea how important these points are and what to do to capture them because there is no tutorial to teach them. This makes PvP really frustrating because you will get people who have no idea how to play with or against the meta.

Ye bunkers just give so much benefit it is ridiculous. I would make another suggestion:
1, Make kills worth 15 points each
2, When people cap a point give them an NPC which must be killed before the other team can cap that point. This stops bunkers running to a point and capping it.

It’s more constructive to layout builds and their imbalanced status than just say —- “bunkers specs are ridiculous”. That doesn’t help anybody learn anything or know what to balance. It’s already been known that decap engis, warriors, spirit rangers were an issue because they had a bunker spec that either could do good dps and/or had way too many knockbacks compared to other classes which conquest mode does favor.

Yes this is it. Those builds are a huge problem. They are only fun for the guy who plays them and they were given rise by the mechanics of this PvP where bunkering up is low risk high reward tactic.

lol dude you think if you try to kill someone it takes your whole team to do it? you think going for a kill means getting 2-3 capped?

you just clearly played better players than your team.

Solstice.1097:

lol dude you think if you try to kill someone it takes your whole team to do it? you think going for a kill means getting 2-3 capped?

you just clearly played better players than your team.

With some build yes. I play bunker most of the time and it takes several people to kill me. By this time my team capped everything and came to my aid. That’s wrong.

Browrain.7346:

Stop fighting it. Almost everyone here has disagreed with you for a reason. You’re wrong.

No troll posts this is a serious discussion.

you can’t cap a point if there’s a player opposing player on it. so … yes.

The mode is called “Conquest”, so capping & holding points should be the main goal.
In addtion, the points also promote fights between players, as they are the main objectives on the map and thus, the “concentration” of players on the points will always be high.

zaced.7948:

you can’t cap a point if there’s a player opposing player on it. so … yes.

Actually you can with things like Fear, [Banish] etc. That’s what many decap builds revolve around.

Yes, playing a bunker and just sitting on a point is very effective, but killing players is far from pointless because:

- You send the player to respawn, which prevents you and your teammate from being killed by that enemy
– You force that player to waste a bunch of time waiting for the respawn, then travelling across the map instead of sitting on a point or killing your team
– You prevent that player from knocking you off the point or shutting you down so that another person can knock you off the point
– And of course, you get 5 points too. =P

Solstice.1097:

lol dude you think if you try to kill someone it takes your whole team to do it? you think going for a kill means getting 2-3 capped?

you just clearly played better players than your team.

Not really. If they have 3 bunkers, say a hambow, bunker guard and spirit ranger. Then with 4 players it will take too long to kill them. By time you have done this then you will lose both other points to the 1v2.

Bunkers win games.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yes, playing a bunker and just sitting on a point is very effective, but killing players is far from pointless because:

- You send the player to respawn, which prevents you and your teammate from being killed by that enemy
– You force that player to waste a bunch of time waiting for the respawn, then travelling across the map instead of sitting on a point or killing your team
– You prevent that player from knocking you off the point or shutting you down so that another person can knock you off the point
– And of course, you get 5 points too. =P

But it’s much better to tank up and Banish the player off his point. =)

That’s why this PvP creates broken builds and makes players rage so much.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Solstice.1097:

lol dude you think if you try to kill someone it takes your whole team to do it? you think going for a kill means getting 2-3 capped?

you just clearly played better players than your team.

Not really. If they have 3 bunkers, say a hambow, bunker guard and spirit ranger. Then with 4 players it will take too long to kill them. By time you have done this then you will lose both other points to the 1v2.

Bunkers win games.

yea but according to OP’s line of reasoning all top teams should be 5 straight up bunkers. he makes it sound like its impossible to kill a bunker.

let’s say both teams have their close point but enemy has mid with a bunker on it. according to OP there is no point in your team going mid because in doing so you will lose both outer points and be down 300-100 by the time the fight is over.

A. the reason they have mid in the first place is because you lost it. the reason you lost it is because you DIED. See how important deaths are?
B. your team did not DIE to a bunker. You died to DPS. See the important role of non-bunkers?

Thieves are the primary reason a full bunker team cannot work. Take a 1v1 of 2 bunkers and add a decent thief to it and the battle is over very quickly. Burst eles, shatter mesmers, power necros can have the same effect.

Not full team but with about 3-4 you will win. In any case you won’t last long without bunkers.

Spirigo.2897:

Not full team but with about 3-4 you will win. In any case you won’t last long without bunkers.

2 is all you really need. 3 is the max you usually want. bunkers are generally slow. fast DPS roamers can out-rotate and kill bunkers. need a mix of both for an optimum team.