Guild Wars 2

Geikamir.6329:

robotempire.2451:

Zinwrath.2049:

szthesquid.9576:

The more skills are split the more people are pressured to stick with 1 game mode. I don’t want to have to re-learn my class to try a new game mode, or keep track of 3 different variations of each skill.

no offence but this sort of mentality just stinks of laziness.

Most people play video games as a form of leisure. The dude just doesn’t want to spend his leisure time that way. That’s not “laziness” that’s just called “having an opinion”.

Just because it’s his opinion doesn’t mean it’s not laziness. Complaining that you have to learn things to be most effective is most definitely lazy

Agreed. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that does not mean they are entitled to have their opinion respected. The fact that a thought is an opinion has NOTHING to do with the validity of the opinion.

On point, NOTHING in Guild Wars 2 is difficult, aside from PvP-related activities. Sorry. Back in Everquest 1 you could spend an entire year leveling to max… PvP balance didn’t exist, and the game was incredibly fun. The level of a player was a form of social stratification.

Guild Wars 2 is a very relaxed mmo. VERY relaxed. It is easy. That is the draw for most players. Hardcore PvP’ers come because the spvp system is balanced and WvW is unlike anything else, but the game, as a whole, is very easy.

As such, “laziness” could either be seen as in-line with the game’s design, or, as I see it, as an excessive desire to have fun while doing, essentially, nothing.

They’ve already taken out harmful consumables; portal gun, stun, spy kit, etc. So are consumables meant to be only PvE? In which case I think their price will go way down. Down to nothing imo, except for magic find. What’s bad for business is bad for the game.

Crit cap? That’s just targeting one aspect that “seems” too much. What about giving too much vitality and toughness diminishing returns? Lets make everyone balanced. No variety. Or add resiliency, at the cost of not having toughness or vitality stat (reduces the chance to be crit).

They’re just targeting skills. And splitting them is ok. At least they’re no removing skills from pvp/wvw, like GW1. I don’t know what they’re changing about them, I’ll complain afterwards if anything.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

So is confusion going to become an extremely lame condition in WvW like sPvP and essentially worthless?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Please don’t do this. I don’t want to have to constantly pay to respec and get completely different gear for WvW and relearn to play my character as well.

red.2387:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Please don’t do this. I don’t want to have to constantly pay to respec and get completely different gear for WvW and relearn to play my character as well.

I think they are talking about skill value changes, to make it balanced. Not fundamental mechanic changes, you really shouldn thave t relearn anything.

@The devs. allow people to have a saved spec, so we can tab between two builds. Instead of having to respec for different aspects of the game.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Finally!!! I’m so happy.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

This may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back where even more people stop playing WvW and GW2 all together.

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

This may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back where even more people stop playing WvW and GW2 all together.

lol? cause people don’t like having their favourite game modes to be balanced?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

I truly hope this means confusion can be made better in PvE. A lot of condition mesmers would rejoice.

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

This may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back where even more people stop playing WvW and GW2 all together.

I think it’s slowly starting to bleed through with every developer that this is necessary, as I’ve seen even Blizzard has started doing it. So good luck finding another balanced mmo that doesn’t do it. They might quit GW2, but there’s no other pace to go to. You might as well stay then.

People have been getting so off topic in this thread after its main question was answered by J sharp.

This isn’t a thread to suggest balance changes just because a dev replied. This is a thread to discuss the pros and cons of splitting balance across the 3 different game types guild was is split into.

Although honestly, what are the cons?

Ostricheggs.3742:

People have been getting so off topic in this thread after its main question was answered by J sharp.

This isn’t a thread to suggest balance changes just because a dev replied. This is a thread to discuss the pros and cons of splitting balance across the 3 different game types guild was is split into.

Although honestly, what are the cons?

One con I can think of , is the split between wvwvw and pve. It might be the case if abilities moved that someone might want to respec between the two realms. This could easly be solved by giving us dual specs, or making wvwvw like hotm where your spec changes when you go there.

Overall though, there is MASSIVELY more pro’s to be gained splitting things up. If your game is to be serious about pvp you need to be serious about balance.

WvW isn’t really PvP and doesn’t need to be balanced as such, unless by WvW you mean running around looking for 2v1s.

If you’re talking about actual WvW battles, almost every class needs huge buffs to sustainability/survivability and supporting the people around them.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Exactly how will you split WvW and PvE? Just want to make sure that we can still earn XP from doing WvW

JonathanSharp.7094:

• For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.

Good. I don’t know if it has been mentioned here, but something I brought up in the GW2Guru discussion was barrier of entry. I mostly PvE, but I occassionally play some PvE and in GW1 I found that if I spent twenty minutes designing a build only to find out in mid battle that it didn’t work the way I thought it would because of a drastic PvE/PvP split I would end up logging out frustrated. If other players are experiencing something similar then that would be problematic. You need the rate of players entering PvP to be greater than or equal to the rate of those leaving (big picture, not individual matches), otherwise you have a dwindling community. Any and all barriers to entry will in some way reduce your rate of players entering. It’s something to be very conscious of.

randomfightfan.4091:

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

This may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back where even more people stop playing WvW and GW2 all together.

lol? cause people don’t like having their favourite game modes to be balanced?

Only those players who always gravitate to the OP builds and skills will leave. They can find some other, unbalanced game to play.

adagiophoto.4512:

JonathanSharp.7094:

• For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.

Good. I don’t know if it has been mentioned here, but something I brought up in the GW2Guru discussion was barrier of entry. I mostly PvE, but I occassionally play some PvE and in GW1 I found that if I spent twenty minutes designing a build only to find out in mid battle that it didn’t work the way I thought it would because of a drastic PvE/PvP split I would end up logging out frustrated. If other players are experiencing something similar then that would be problematic. You need the rate of players entering PvP to be greater than or equal to the rate of those leaving (big picture, not individual matches), otherwise you have a dwindling community. Any and all barriers to entry will in some way reduce your rate of players entering. It’s something to be very conscious of.

again that would be easier to address if there was a balance split. Take for example turrets on engis; they might be useful in PvE but underperforming in PvP. Useless traits and traitlines that perform to a decent extent like those related to turrets are completely worthless in PvP.

The simple solution would be to buff the invention tree in PvP.

Just an example.

^I think they’re stronger in pvp than in pve.
Not that it’s saying much.

Ostricheggs.3742:

People have been getting so off topic in this thread after its main question was answered by J sharp.

This isn’t a thread to suggest balance changes just because a dev replied. This is a thread to discuss the pros and cons of splitting balance across the 3 different game types guild was is split into.

Although honestly, what are the cons?

There are possible cons, such as things becoming so different that players who play several different areas of the game would suffer. Especially since PvE and WvW use the same gear/traits—what if you wanted to do a dungeon Saturday morning and WvW in the evening? Would you have to equip a different gear set and re-trait?

That’s an extreme example, of course, but in general it’s good that the devs aren’t going crazy with splits. It sounds like they’re going to be careful. Hopefully that means more builds are viable in more places, instead of fewer.

Ostricheggs.3742:

People have been getting so off topic in this thread after its main question was answered by J sharp.

This isn’t a thread to suggest balance changes just because a dev replied. This is a thread to discuss the pros and cons of splitting balance across the 3 different game types guild was is split into.

Although honestly, what are the cons?

There’s only one real con, but its a significant one. Its that players migrating from PvE into PvP who have skills doing different things will have their expectations dashed, and as such will be less likely to understand what’s going on. This will frustrate players and make their game knowledge acquired in PvE seem useless in PvP, which is frustrating.

Better documentation, an in-game guide system or similar tools may mitigate that, but generally you’d expect skill x to perform equivalently regardless of where you’re using it.

The big issue with that, which you touched upon, is that sPvP and WvW are balanced with vastly different stats. A lot of the complaints that are levied upon certain classes are only valid in WvW, yet those changes end up being ported into sPvP, where they have negative effects on the meta. From the perspective of balancing in the aims of fostering a competitive community, the risk of WvW and PvE fallout is extreme. The recent quickness nerf was likely aimed at curtailing CoF farming with frenzy and timewarp, not gutting warriors in PvP.

Since competitive players invest substantial amounts of time into the game, the risk of deleterious changes being hoisted upon their community is a threat to the value of their efforts to improve. When competitive players stop seeing value in developing their skills, they leave.

Anyways, that’s the way I see things.

Valkyriez.6578:

Jon,
Your game balance is already top notch.

So says the guy who rolled a Mesmer and Guardian, lol

basically, changes in pvp are usually nerfs – not just damage or effect, but cooldown as well. obviously pve players do not like this at all and it makes dungeoning less efficient

I just hope that if they split PVE and WvW, that they give us a free means of swapping our traits when we move between the two; in other words, get rid of the currency sink that is the current trait re-arrangement model. If they do that, I’m totally fine, and it would be a generally welcome PvE buff.

If I can swap my traits around as I need, then I can adapt to any change between play formats with minimal pain. If I can’t, then any kind of PvE/WvW skill split will greatly impact builds I can run.

they could do as tehy did to spvp with the traits so that we have 3 diffrent build but c<nt swap between them in each aspect of the game but still leave the pve build and the wvw build to be diffrent,

i think they will just change the numbers for the skills like cooldowns, damage and duration on boons and conditions. if thats the chase i welcome it with open arms but if they change the mechaniches then its a diffrent story.

honestly in ALL opinion – if your NOT a thief or tanky player/player without many kites/escape skills – you shouldn’t be roaming alone in wvwvw any KITTEN way – its wvwvw….not 1v1v1. QQ more – work as a team, stomp a thief but pretend your in CoD(children of daycare) and try to be bad*butt* and die….alot. i personally agree, in the original game Guild Wars 1 (great series of games), they eventually starting updating and nerfing in bulk, eventually let things play out and as the staff grew along with the maturing of THAT game they started seeing how people played and monitored skill and profession usages {in gw1 u could have a primary and secondary profession} they would split nerf them depending on such skills OPability.

Example: Shadow Form for PvE would be entirely different than that of Shadow Form for PvP. (example here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Form see top of window for pvp version)

you guys must remember this: its a FRESH GAME…it HAS to mature and go through its “phases” of nerfs before they get stable. just roll with the punches (NOTHING IS PERMANENT in the long run….it never was in gw1 either) just take a chill pill.
playing gw1 for 8 years and gw2 since beta+3day headstart i should know among the other players that Arenanet pulls through…all the time.

Honestly, given the scope of PvE in this game, I don’t understand why there’s a disconnect between the systems. If true class balance was achieved, things should work themselves out if you bring one of something or 100 of something. It’s all supposed to be a giant game of rock paper scissors afterall!

The only time PvP and PvE overlap causes problems are in games with truly elaborate PvE systems. But considering most dungeons in this game are designed so you just run through all the trash and most bosses are niche based scripted encounters, why is it so hard to balance the game?

The only thing I could see being an issue is PvE damage across the board and this can be easily resolved with having a coefficient for use in PvE and a seperate one for PvP/WvW. At least this way you have skills work the same way every time and all classes have access to all skills in every stystem.

That all said though, GW2 isn’t your typical MMO where legitimate concerns of gross imbalance in PvE can be a result of fine tuning in PvP. PvE in this game just isn’t complex enough.

its not hard to balance the game how they are currently doing:

PvE: it doesn t exist…..doesn t count if its hugely unbalanced….they simply don t care with the excuse “its easy” (its not).
GW2= GUARDIANS & WARRIORS 2

WWW/PvP: i m really concerned for what i read in the thread of cantrip eles…..
I don t use a cantrip ele… i also hate PvP.

But when John says he is gonna “tone dows” traits on eles and then read about the necessity of consistency i read:

“Hey we are gonna again to nerf a class in WWW and PvE due to a game mode played by 10% of community…..

That are my fears…..so again we need a complete split…..so 90% players won t suffer unfair nerfs where there is no need…

Unless someone proves me clearly that ele is OP in PvE or WWW (as it is…..) but i doubt that.
(recent Thief pve nerf its the exact proof of that).

balance issues tend to be made worse in wvw, not better. any spvp change to an ele would probably be warranted in wvw.

Atherakhia.4086:

Honestly, given the scope of PvE in this game, I don’t understand why there’s a disconnect between the systems. If true class balance was achieved, things should work themselves out if you bring one of something or 100 of something. It’s all supposed to be a giant game of rock paper scissors afterall!

The only time PvP and PvE overlap causes problems are in games with truly elaborate PvE systems. But considering most dungeons in this game are designed so you just run through all the trash and most bosses are niche based scripted encounters, why is it so hard to balance the game?

The only thing I could see being an issue is PvE damage across the board and this can be easily resolved with having a coefficient for use in PvE and a seperate one for PvP/WvW. At least this way you have skills work the same way every time and all classes have access to all skills in every stystem.

That all said though, GW2 isn’t your typical MMO where legitimate concerns of gross imbalance in PvE can be a result of fine tuning in PvP. PvE in this game just isn’t complex enough.

That has consistently been proven wrong time and again. There are legitimate differences between PvE and PvP that are large enough to cause even simple changes across the board to have unintended consequences.

Take for example, warriors. People have always said that warriors are ridiculously overpowered in PvE. In PvP they have consistently been the worst class in the game.

Who did the quickness nerf hurt the worst? Warriors. I don’t know how that effected PvE but in PvP I can honestly say that I haven’t seen a warrior on a team in over a week.

How they’ve been going about balancing is completely detrimental to all aspects of the game, especially PvP. There is honestly no excuse to not split it. It just doesn’t make sense.

I really don’t have the time, or patience, to read every post on here, but I mostly agree with the OP. I don’t agree with the OP’s completely out-of-left-field comment about eles when the rest of the post was fairly generalized, though.

They made GW2 avoid the typical roles found in MMO’s, but instead it created new roles. I honestly hate this. It just seems like a complete fail to me.
My biggest issue in PvP, though, is that it seems each class has only one or two build(s) that actually work well. The rest of the traits/skills seem almost useless. There are even weaponsets for each class that are generally considered to be superior. It feels so incredibly imbalanced that I would probably quit playing if it weren’t for my boyfriend. I cannot find a class that doesn’t have balance issues for most possible builds.
The amulets are probably one of the biggest issues. Your gear, traits, weapons, etc, are COMPLETELY different in Heart of the Mists, yet there is very little customization for your overall attributes in PvP compared to either PvE or WvW. This seems like either an oversight or complete laziness on ArenaNet’s part. Instead of multiple trinkets or whatever, we get an amulet and a jewel. If we want stats that compliment any build besides the norm, too bad for us!
I am so frustrated with PvP right now, I just don’t have any motivation to play anything but my engineer—Which I’m sure will get nerfed soon because that’s all they know how to do. I guess it’s too difficult to buff multiple traits/skills when they can just nerf one or two!

sapphyredragon.6437:

I really don’t have the time, or patience, to read every post on here, but I mostly agree with the OP. I don’t agree with the OP’s completely out-of-left-field comment about eles when the rest of the post was fairly generalized, though.

They made GW2 avoid the typical roles found in MMO’s, but instead it created new roles. I honestly hate this. It just seems like a complete fail to me.
My biggest issue in PvP, though, is that it seems each class has only one or two build(s) that actually work well. The rest of the traits/skills seem almost useless. There are even weaponsets for each class that are generally considered to be superior. It feels so incredibly imbalanced that I would probably quit playing if it weren’t for my boyfriend. I cannot find a class that doesn’t have balance issues for most possible builds.
The amulets are probably one of the biggest issues. Your gear, traits, weapons, etc, are COMPLETELY different in Heart of the Mists, yet there is very little customization for your overall attributes in PvP compared to either PvE or WvW. This seems like either an oversight or complete laziness on ArenaNet’s part. Instead of multiple trinkets or whatever, we get an amulet and a jewel. If we want stats that compliment any build besides the norm, too bad for us!
I am so frustrated with PvP right now, I just don’t have any motivation to play anything but my engineer—Which I’m sure will get nerfed soon because that’s all they know how to do. I guess it’s too difficult to buff multiple traits/skills when they can just nerf one or two!

I agree. I was thinking about making a wall of text about a lack of build variety, but I’m just too lazy

It’s a major flaw in the game, lack of stat diversity because of ammys and trait lines and lack of build diversity because of SEVERELY under-performing traits and utilities.

The well-known “good” builds find the magic middle in between both proper stat distribution and actually decent traits/utilities, something not too easy to do. That middleground needs to be widened a bit.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Atherakhia.4086:

Honestly, given the scope of PvE in this game, I don’t understand why there’s a disconnect between the systems. If true class balance was achieved, things should work themselves out if you bring one of something or 100 of something. It’s all supposed to be a giant game of rock paper scissors afterall!

The only time PvP and PvE overlap causes problems are in games with truly elaborate PvE systems. But considering most dungeons in this game are designed so you just run through all the trash and most bosses are niche based scripted encounters, why is it so hard to balance the game?

The only thing I could see being an issue is PvE damage across the board and this can be easily resolved with having a coefficient for use in PvE and a seperate one for PvP/WvW. At least this way you have skills work the same way every time and all classes have access to all skills in every stystem.

That all said though, GW2 isn’t your typical MMO where legitimate concerns of gross imbalance in PvE can be a result of fine tuning in PvP. PvE in this game just isn’t complex enough.

That has consistently been proven wrong time and again. There are legitimate differences between PvE and PvP that are large enough to cause even simple changes across the board to have unintended consequences.

Take for example, warriors. People have always said that warriors are ridiculously overpowered in PvE. In PvP they have consistently been the worst class in the game.

Who did the quickness nerf hurt the worst? Warriors. I don’t know how that effected PvE but in PvP I can honestly say that I haven’t seen a warrior on a team in over a week.

How they’ve been going about balancing is completely detrimental to all aspects of the game, especially PvP. There is honestly no excuse to not split it. It just doesn’t make sense.

The Warrior’s problems in PvP aren’t the least bit associated with their damage. PvE has no real conditions, roots, snares, and boons to worry about. There isn’t any overlap between the Warrior’s perceived status in PvE and its nerfed status in PvP.

And you honestly feel the quickness changed affected warriors the most? Warriors that mock other Warriors for still using GS? Not Rangers or Thieves huh?

And are you trying to imply that quickness was changed because of CoF 1 runs? You don’t think it had anything to do with Warrior’s bull charging, popping frenzy, and dropping noobs in half a second?

I’m not sure I’ve seen much PvE balancing done in this game at all. It certainly has some overlap with PvE, but that’s because it should.

The only time PvP nerfs affect PvE is when damage is nerfed. This was the headache in WoW that people were talking about prior. And WoW was a PvE game first, second, and third. PvP game last. GW2 is the opposite.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

Now why would you split pve from pve?

KarlaGrey.5903:

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

Now why would you split pve from pve?

So the cof path 1 farmers stay happy lol. I believe it was to appease the thieves that went raging about their autoattack chain being messed up and stuff so they get significantly less backstabs and from how clunky their attack pattern is now.

i still say the reason for the stealth hit was becasue of people that kittened too much about dying while they were trying to roam around WvWvW alone and got punished by a thief. your not suppseod to roam around anyway – whiners got their way. ANYOEN can kill a thief in OR outta stealth. there was no reason to make the change – should buffed OTHER classes instead of nerfing one

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

i still say the reason for the stealth hit was becasue of people that kittened too much about dying while they were trying to roam around WvWvW alone and got punished by a thief. your not suppseod to roam around anyway – whiners got their way. ANYOEN can kill a thief in OR outta stealth. there was no reason to make the change – should buffed OTHER classes instead of nerfing one

Well, it’s not like thieves lost their stealth or anything… They can still attack/kill roamers from stealth. It helped a lot in PvP where all that stealth was a little ridiculous.

Stealth still is somewhat ridiculous, with no way to actually counter it except stab blindly in the air. However, the most absolutely atrocious things, are D/D Elementalists. I hope that they get nerfed so hard into the ground it’ll take them a century just to find out how deep they are. The quantity of people that abuse this nonsensical build make me not only dislike the Devs for making the mistake, but also dislike the people that condone and use it. Whereas Necromancers such as myself, and our Warrior brethren must suffer at the bottom.

It’d be insane to see more than 4 professions viable in PvE.

Zenith.7301:

JonathanSharp.7094:

randomfightfan.4091:

In that case when do we PvE thieves get our 3s revealed debuff back?

Maybe so. We’re debating it.

If it’s a PvE change, it will be absurd in WvW, where thieves are already one of the strongest if not the most popular class for roaming.

I think it’s time to change the WvW ruleset to share spvp limitations, like a hard cap on crit damage bonus at 60% and using the spvp formula for confusion, which is pretty broken against players with the PvE one.

whats the point in hitting something in wvw the same as if it gets hit in sPvP? zergs are the main cause of someone dying – and i have said it a million times, buidls will trump builds in wvw…thats how it is if your roaming alone by yourself. you cant expect to have so and so OP!!!! just becasue your stupid enough to roam alone. WvWvW is teamwork- not kitten Hunger Games. wvwvw is still PvE while the real competition and problems lie within sPvP. most people are geared out in wvw from pve gear anyway…oh wait they ARE!….imagine the time taking the mathematical problems into accoutn based on having 1 amulet in spvp as opposed to several ascended and exotic earrings etc in pve(aka wvw)….then nerfing IT….yeah…id rather much agree on watching twilight with someone rather than to put wvw into the spvp categroy for the upcoming patch as a SPLIT.

besides – what does a build matter when you cant really tell who killed ur butt in the first place when 5 million people roll over you leaving a mangled trampled corpse in wvw anyway?…exactly u CANNOT say OP until you saw the 100 grenade engineer…THAT was a needed nerf NOT 4 second reveal in wvw/pve….ONLY spvp

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Stealth still is somewhat ridiculous, with no way to actually counter it except stab blindly in the air. However, the most absolutely atrocious things, are D/D Elementalists. I hope that they get nerfed so hard into the ground it’ll take them a century just to find out how deep they are. The quantity of people that abuse this nonsensical build make me not only dislike the Devs for making the mistake, but also dislike the people that condone and use it. Whereas Necromancers such as myself, and our Warrior brethren must suffer at the bottom.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-haters-take-this-wisdom-from-a-dev/first

see there