Guild Wars 2

Follidus.8027:

Sprawl.3891:

dear mr I want this game to be an esport? where did I say they were required? all I did was say that trying to make an argument that one team is able to win against the smallest population of competitive pvpers in any game out right now is a joke. along with any discussion about meta and skill levels. grats you play vs 5 other teams for a couple hours, want a cookie in a game with no match making and no rankings. tell me more about how qp means something.

Everyone that complains about this issue is like the same to me. Sorry if you never said those words exactly, but the general vibe of your complaining is the same. “x is overpowered and we can’t win without it,” or “x is overpowered and it creates boring gameplay.”

Also, QPs work like gladiator in WoW: if you have QPs it doesn’t mean you’re good, but if you don’t have QPs, then you’re probably not great. I notice that people that complain about QPs the most are the ones who don’t have any. So you can say I’m bias about QPs because I have a good amount, but you’re just as biased because you don’t have a lot.

Either way, you need to change your mindset. You know why there’s only “5 teams that take paids seriously?” Because people think like you do.

Maybe people who dont have QPs dont like the fact that you need to buy or grind tickets to enter paid tournament, so they dont play it at all, or they just wanna pvp solo because the prefer pvp that way.From what i understand about QP ranking, it only means that you play paids a lot not that you are great or even decent PVPer? But even if you, for example, gain QP points for won matches only,which i doubt, there is still a fact that some people, like me, despise the fact that you must buy or grind entry fee to enter what should be top tier pvp mode.
Paid tournaments are there for one purpose only imo, and that is to increase a-net monetary income, not to facilitate e-sport aspirations.

Sprawl.3891:

Vyndetta.9415:

Sprawl.3891:

blah blah cry blah blah cry blah blah blah

After seeing you try to troll and cry on the Rift forums, I would think you would get better after a couple years. Sadly you still disappoint =\

when did I ever cry on rift forums? I played warrior and rogue the two most powerful pvp classes. glad you remember me though cuz I have no clue who you are. wild bill wannabe is my guess. keep striving to be a big fish in a kiddie pool and act like people acknowledge it or care.

Sorry, didn’t mean to put “cry on the rift forums”, but you went from trolling on those forums to crying on gw2 forums. =\

I play gw2 because its fun and enjoyable with friends. I don’t care what people think of me on a video game….loll

I dont think players are technically having a problem with mesmers as a class…I think they have a issue with Portal, which Anet has already announced theyre having issues with. But I dont believe giving the ability to other classes really solves the problem for Spvp…honestly Some skills shouldnt be useable in Spvp and Portal is one of them.

Imo I say leave it as is with mesmer being the only class with it, its great for some dungeons when u have a member fall, or cant get past a jumping puzzle…also great for wvw…but remove it in Spvp

Follidus.8027:

Sprawl.3891:

dear mr I want this game to be an esport? where did I say they were required? all I did was say that trying to make an argument that one team is able to win against the smallest population of competitive pvpers in any game out right now is a joke. along with any discussion about meta and skill levels. grats you play vs 5 other teams for a couple hours, want a cookie in a game with no match making and no rankings. tell me more about how qp means something.

Everyone that complains about this issue is like the same to me. Sorry if you never said those words exactly, but the general vibe of your complaining is the same. “x is overpowered and we can’t win without it,” or “x is overpowered and it creates boring gameplay.”

Also, QPs work like gladiator in WoW: if you have QPs it doesn’t mean you’re good, but if you don’t have QPs, then you’re probably not great. I notice that people that complain about QPs the most are the ones who don’t have any. So you can say I’m bias about QPs because I have a good amount, but you’re just as biased because you don’t have a lot.

Either way, you need to change your mindset. You know why there’s only “5 teams that take paids seriously?” Because people think like you do.

wow gladiator atleast had to beat thousands of teams to get to top .01%. qp you have to beat like 10 different teams stop making horrible comparisons lol.

for all you know theres teams who would smoke you but they quit long time ago since paid dont pop during their play time since not even 7 other teams give a kitten outside a 2 hour window.

@Follidus: In NA there are 5 teams? And you said it has the same level of competition as EU servers? So that must be the reason for top players from NA joining EU servers.
About QP’s you are absolutely right.

NA top teams have demoralized and killed the NA servers because people have 0% chance of earning QP…. It’s probably because it’s not competitive…..maybe Ace of Spades can give some input.

lmao Wild Bill… Ralph, please go.

Follidus.8027:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Perhaps that says more about NA than about their builds. /shrug

I fully support trying out different things…but all the tedius armor and weap making (hello templates?) made it a real annoyance to change new things, not to mention rerolling a (new) character starts you off in pveland first. One either has to be really bored, or genuinely wishing to try sth new.
Wish build changing would have been as simple as on GW…

And who are you? I’m going to ignore the whole “NA is kitten, EU is god tier” thing, because all that trolling is done.

It takes 5 minutes to make a new character and get into the mists. It’s faster if you make your character and join a friend in hotjoin. I don’t really know what to say if you’re too lazy to make a new character because it takes a whole 5 minutes. Also, you don’t have to make anything. All the gear in spvp is as powerful as anything else. The only difference is the looks.

I never implied NA to be worse – that’s merely you labelling that implication by association with similar posts. I could just as well be referring to a general lack of competition in NA due to dwingling high-end pvp population, resulting in more freedom when it comes to team setups and build choices (and being one of the reasons as to why they are somewhat successful). That does not translate to NA being worse per say. It simply translates to NA having a smaller amount of good players to test new builds again, and due to this lack of competition ‘check’, unorthodox setups can be more successful they might have been in a more active zone.

I can easily extend the whoru comment right back at you, for I only recognize your guild tag (while I do recall the names of certain other members), and vaguely remember this somewhat pretentious attitude from your posts in other threads.

I know quite well about the ‘trick’ to skip the pve part by joining a friend in pvp. Sadly, not many of the people on my fl hang around online anymore, let alone in pvp (read: in HOTJOIN), but that’s beside the point at hand. However I hope you do realize the stupidity of starting off in pve, when your sole intention is to pvp.

Moreover, it appears you’re under the impression I’m coming from pveland, given that you graciously not only whoru’d me, but also took the liberty of mentioning how all gear is the same in pvp.
Sorry to disappoint, I’m more the pvp type, it’s just that the pvp in this game tends to be an abomination valued in general only by people new to the GW franchise (my guild ironicaly being a very rare exception there).

Also, you appear to have missed my comment about templates – I reckon you must be new to the GW franchise, so this time, I will be the one graciously taking liberties and kindly direct you to the good old GW wiki, where you can inform yourself all you need about this marvelous invention called ‘armor templates’, ‘build templates’, ‘pvp-only characters’ and the ability to post ‘copiable’ links in chats. I hope you’ll enjoy your stay browsing through the detailed descriptions of those ingenius features.

Furthermore, you also seemed to have missed my point regarding rerolling. I am obviously not referring to character creation alone. No, what I was hinting at is the tedious running up to npcs, purchasing runes, manually double clicking each armor piece to apply them, rinse and repeat that >each fkn time you change your build or want to try something new, or simply reverting back to your old build<, not to mention having to reset ALL traits if you happen to invest a few points too many in a specific trait. It is a cumbersome and time-consuming process, a chore even, that has absolutely nothing to do with actual playing. Once again, see GW for reference on how it’s done properly.

I most definitely cba wasting hours on a build (read: create something completely new to try things out, or test other players’ builds with minor tweaks of my own) that I might end up dismissing in half that time. You might be in love with the game (you poor soul) and willing to find excuses for its horrendous features, but don’t expect everyone to embrace low quality game designs with open arms and flowers…especially not those who enjoyed the elegance and simplicity that are found on GW.

In a nutshell, what I believe is called for when creating new characters/builds for pvp purposes:
— adding solid build and gear templates,
— removing the stupid gear/weap/amulet npcs and replacing them with a dedicated armor/weapon equipment window offering all those choices in different tabs – accessible from anywhere in the pvp zone.
— split character creation into pve and pvp characters; the latter are to be teleported directly to the mists and may not move out of that zone. That, or add an option where you wish to start off with your newly created character – pveland or pvpland.

Not that complicated, is it.

Follidus.8027:

Either way, you need to change your mindset. You know why there’s only “5 teams that take paids seriously?” Because people think like you do.

Because most realized it’s shiat and staying that way for an indefinite amount of time.

Moreover, the thing with QPs is another instance of Anet magically succeeding in devaluating virtually all bragging rights material GW2 potentially ever had. If I just remember how prestige the gladiator, HA and champion titles used to be on GW, and how they were eventually watered down massively towards the end of the game’s life span, I’m honestly not all that surprised. Not that it’s something really bad, but I find it pretty entertaining to see people use them as reference points when recruiting, or judging other players from it.

Anyhow, this has gone really massively off-topic, but I somewhat felt I had to clear things up, because paragraphs with condensed content and external references seem to often be misunderstood.

Last but not least, mesmer portal for personal-use only sounds like a pretty solid solution, but then the recharge needs to be reverted. That, or making it only a one-direction port. After a use, the port should end for whoever just used it. That won’t fix much though.

The mesmer is not over powered, portal and to a certain extent timewarp are.

Follidus.8027:

Narcarsis.5739:

This just in: you don’t! Be creative, run what you like to play and make it work. Look at PZ for example. They all play classes they enjoy, and it just so happens that not one of them is a Mesmer.

Yup, they don’t run a mesmer or any kind of bunker and are beating everyone in NA.

Nonono. Just your team. Speak for yourself. Just cuz your team has lost the last 10 matches against them doesn’t mean they beat every team.

Also you mentioned to a player in a previous post who is he? You have no right to ask who is he because you technically are a no one too unless playing paid makes you a somebody(rofl). What I’m getting at is you try to act like such a nice guy but you come off as bipolar. You are putting noobs down and stating you get tired of stating the same things and go off and rant. Yet you say you want to help people. Help people in a better tone of stop being so fake like you always are.

Another thing, to call people not good because they can’t play without a Mesmer is preposterous and you have no room to say that. Firstly cuz you don’t know those people and how they play. Everyone has different play styles and certain classes fit certain peoples /comps. So to bash these people and tell them they are bad because they can’t play without Mesmer makes your better then those who rant all the time. Your mindset and is the one that needs to change and you need to stop being so bipolar. I am almost ashamed your thread got put as a sticky because it’s almost a lie. I’d rather people not learn from someone who will just get frustrated and tells noobs they are bad for no reason.

Follidus.8027:

Sprawl.3891:

vs the 5 teams that take paid seriously. but hey dropping mesmer for ele is deep meta

I’m tired of trying to explain this to people, so look: I’m sorry you’re not good at this game. I’m sorry that instead of trying to improve and have fun with the game you give up and say “X is required to win,” or “Y is too strong.” I’m sorry that you sit on the forums telling people the game is kitten.

It’s just really annoying. You seriously need to change your mindset.

Yes, portal is an easy way to defend the backpoint.
Does that mean the mesmer will always win a 1v1 against someone that goes back there? No. There are builds that will beat mesmers in a 1v1. This is what PZ does.

Does that mean other classes can’t defend backpoint because they don’t have a portal? No. If your team counts heads and keeps an eye on numbers, then you can have the backpoint defender leave the point to help somewhere else.

Lets say you lose your backpoint. Does that mean you lose? No. There are teams that will win a team fight in mid, and then go squash the person that backcapped, if they’re still there.

Does timewarp basically ensure you win the fight where you use it? Yes, it does. Does that mean you win the game? of course not. There’s no rule that says you have to do big team fights. And even if there was, it’s not going to be up every team fight.

Am I saying timewarp and portal couldn’t use a nerf? No, because I think they should be nerfed a little bit, but going to the extreme of saying “omg we can’t win because we don’t have a mesmer” is simply not true. You’re losing because you’re not good enough to not use a mesmer.

Do bunkers survive against everything 1v1? No, they don’t. You can’t build your bunker to beat everything. Against guardians, for example, a trap ranger will demolish you pretty quickly. If you change your build to be a lot more effective against trap rangers, then you’re more susceptible to something else. For example, an ele with the trap ranger.

On my bunker, I die to a CC warrior, d/d support ele, and a well necro in 15 seconds. And I’m not dying because I’m standing on wells, either. I’m dying because of the coordination of damage and CC, which I should add was not perfect or anything.

If you’re expecting perfect 1v1 balance, then that’s not going to happen. It’s just not realistic. The meta is the way it is because people aren’t good at the game. I’m not saying this as an insult, it’s just that the game is too new. It’s relatively easy to play a bunker at a low-level when people don’t coordinate to kill you. It’s relatively easy to throw a portal when someone is on your point and teleport back to it.

Well I say you’re right, my Team play w/o Thief, so every1 who guests us says: oh no Thief, how can you do enough DMG, blah blah…
We own most Team except the Top Teams, but: You can play as good as you want, when the class which is a bit OP is played as good as the class which is a bit UP, the UP class will loose.

Say whatever you want, but there’s a ranger-build out there, which pwns every class in 1v1, doesnt matter what you play and how good you play…

Or the example with the semi-bunker Eles. If Radom goes vs. the best Mesm ingame, i bet the Mesm will loose and even if he should win the figt. Radom just escape heal up and is back again to throw the Mesmer out of the spot…

jokitten390:

Follidus.8027:

Sprawl.3891:

vs the 5 teams that take paid seriously. but hey dropping mesmer for ele is deep meta

I’m tired of trying to explain this to people, so look: I’m sorry you’re not good at this game. I’m sorry that instead of trying to improve and have fun with the game you give up and say “X is required to win,” or “Y is too strong.” I’m sorry that you sit on the forums telling people the game is kitten.

It’s just really annoying. You seriously need to change your mindset.

Yes, portal is an easy way to defend the backpoint.
Does that mean the mesmer will always win a 1v1 against someone that goes back there? No. There are builds that will beat mesmers in a 1v1. This is what PZ does.

Does that mean other classes can’t defend backpoint because they don’t have a portal? No. If your team counts heads and keeps an eye on numbers, then you can have the backpoint defender leave the point to help somewhere else.

Lets say you lose your backpoint. Does that mean you lose? No. There are teams that will win a team fight in mid, and then go squash the person that backcapped, if they’re still there.

Does timewarp basically ensure you win the fight where you use it? Yes, it does. Does that mean you win the game? of course not. There’s no rule that says you have to do big team fights. And even if there was, it’s not going to be up every team fight.

Am I saying timewarp and portal couldn’t use a nerf? No, because I think they should be nerfed a little bit, but going to the extreme of saying “omg we can’t win because we don’t have a mesmer” is simply not true. You’re losing because you’re not good enough to not use a mesmer.

Do bunkers survive against everything 1v1? No, they don’t. You can’t build your bunker to beat everything. Against guardians, for example, a trap ranger will demolish you pretty quickly. If you change your build to be a lot more effective against trap rangers, then you’re more susceptible to something else. For example, an ele with the trap ranger.

On my bunker, I die to a CC warrior, d/d support ele, and a well necro in 15 seconds. And I’m not dying because I’m standing on wells, either. I’m dying because of the coordination of damage and CC, which I should add was not perfect or anything.

If you’re expecting perfect 1v1 balance, then that’s not going to happen. It’s just not realistic. The meta is the way it is because people aren’t good at the game. I’m not saying this as an insult, it’s just that the game is too new. It’s relatively easy to play a bunker at a low-level when people don’t coordinate to kill you. It’s relatively easy to throw a portal when someone is on your point and teleport back to it.

Well I say you’re right, my Team play w/o Thief, so every1 who guests us says: oh no Thief, how can you do enough DMG, blah blah…
We own most Team except the Top Teams, but: You can play as good as you want, when the class which is a bit OP is played as good as the class which is a bit UP, the UP class will loose.

Say whatever you want, but there’s a ranger-build out there, which pwns every class in 1v1, doesnt matter what you play and how good you play…

Or the example with the semi-bunker Eles. If Radom goes vs. the best Mesm ingame, i bet the Mesm will loose and even if he should win the figt. Radom just escape heal up and is back again to throw the Mesmer out of the spot…

On another note he is making claims that are somewhat true but there are a lot of factors that go into that then just those things mentioned so it ok at best.

Also what you stated, is not true. And skill is more important than anything when it comes to facing someone 1v1. The best Mesmer in game will not lose to a bad ranger. That is just preposterous. Also rangers do not own every class ingame 1v1. A warrior easily beats a ranger and a dps guaridan can as well. Rangers would win most of time in an open field but most of the time you are fighting in small compacted areas so that is not the case. And if you are fighting a ranger in the open, most of the time your team will be around.

I run my mesmer in free and paid. I never use time warp or moa, I use the stealth. I also do not use the portal either. We win more than we lose.

So just find a team without one and make it work. Also, whenever you see “the top teams do not run x” just ignore it and file it under “rubbish to ignore”. The only reason people think the mesmer portal is needed is because they dare not go against the “elite”.

Just roll without one, it will work, trust me. heck, we dont even have a guardian most of the time either, and one time we had 3 rangers for no reason other than they thought pets would be funny with names like “I fart”. Still won, because they were good players.

lilz shorty.1879:

On another note he is making claims that are somewhat true but there are a lot of factors that go into that then just those things mentioned so it ok at best.

Also what you stated, is not true. And skill is more important than anything when it comes to facing someone 1v1. The best Mesmer in game will not lose to a bad ranger. That is just preposterous. Also rangers do not own every class ingame 1v1. A warrior easily beats a ranger and a dps guaridan can as well. Rangers would win most of time in an open field but most of the time you are fighting in small compacted areas so that is not the case. And if you are fighting a ranger in the open, most of the time your team will be around.

Warrior actually are the hardest to fight against on this ranger, but srsly in 50 paids you may see one Warrior…. And in our Team the Ranger takes the Bunker-Eles place so he goes to the far spot, ever seen a Warrior defending homespot? Of course would the best Mesm pwn a bad Ranger, but a good Ranger (not top, but knows how to play etc.) would be equal to the best Mesm and thats sad…
Guild Wars 2 depends on Skill, but its a lie to say, that if the best Mesm plays vs. the best Bunker-Ele, the Mesmer would win…

jokitten390:

lilz shorty.1879:

On another note he is making claims that are somewhat true but there are a lot of factors that go into that then just those things mentioned so it ok at best.

Also what you stated, is not true. And skill is more important than anything when it comes to facing someone 1v1. The best Mesmer in game will not lose to a bad ranger. That is just preposterous. Also rangers do not own every class ingame 1v1. A warrior easily beats a ranger and a dps guaridan can as well. Rangers would win most of time in an open field but most of the time you are fighting in small compacted areas so that is not the case. And if you are fighting a ranger in the open, most of the time your team will be around.

Warrior actually are the hardest to fight against on this ranger, but srsly in 50 paids you may see one Warrior…. And in our Team the Ranger takes the Bunker-Eles place so he goes to the far spot, ever seen a Warrior defending homespot? Of course would the best Mesm pwn a bad Ranger, but a good Ranger (not top, but knows how to play etc.) would be equal to the best Mesm and thats sad…
Guild Wars 2 depends on Skill, but its a lie to say, that if the best Mesm plays vs. the best Bunker-Ele, the Mesmer would win…

Right i hate people who respond to ‘x’ could regularly beat ‘y’ with , not if Y was a good player.
Well, yes, if X was a good player also. Skill makes more of a difference than class balance , for sure.
But when people are of equal skill class/spec match ups matter. Thats one of the reasons highest level of play reveals balance best.
1) because skill is less of a variable as they are all really good.
2) Because they are all really good its not likely that its simply a l2p issue.

so if u see consistant over performance at the top level of play, you know youve got something that is actually overpowered. cough , ele , cough.

jportell.2197:

Did noone here read the transcripts from the live stream with devs in short

“Mesmer portal is giving us problems looking at giving it to other classes”

I seriously hope this is not the plan. So instead of having to deal with one portal, people can run multiple classes that have access to a portal and rotate offnode easily. This is not the answer, Less access to free off node coverage is the answer not giving it to all classes this is a bad design decision. Things like keeping track of enemy numbers and locations should be rewarded and not “someone is contesting X” * 1 of 3 classes portals back * . I still think mobility needs to be cut back in order to allow for harsh penalties for misjudging the enemy numbers, or adding a bonus to misleading your enemy.

Taym.8326:

jportell.2197:

Did noone here read the transcripts from the live stream with devs in short

“Mesmer portal is giving us problems looking at giving it to other classes”

I seriously hope this is not the plan. So instead of having to deal with one portal, people can run multiple classes that have access to a portal and rotate offnode easily. This is not the answer, Less access to free off node coverage is the answer not giving it to all classes this is a bad design decision. Things like keeping track of enemy numbers and locations should be rewarded and not “someone is contesting X” * 1 of 3 classes portals back * . I still think mobility needs to be cut back in order to allow for harsh penalties for misjudging the enemy numbers, or adding a bonus to misleading your enemy.

these are good points. at least you have an argument. But the situation right now is untenable. either more classes need portal so that it allows more comp variety ( though u can run non portal groups in paid, it is possible). Or , portal needs a nerf.

The status quo is the issue, the solution can go either way ,i’m not sure whats best personally.

There are actually strong teams that are not using mesmer in their current setups right now, both the team Onibawan and Origin Online in EU dropped it.

I do feel like dropping mesmer is foolish but hey, at least it’s being done.

jokitten390:

lilz shorty.1879:

On another note he is making claims that are somewhat true but there are a lot of factors that go into that then just those things mentioned so it ok at best.

Also what you stated, is not true. And skill is more important than anything when it comes to facing someone 1v1. The best Mesmer in game will not lose to a bad ranger. That is just preposterous. Also rangers do not own every class ingame 1v1. A warrior easily beats a ranger and a dps guaridan can as well. Rangers would win most of time in an open field but most of the time you are fighting in small compacted areas so that is not the case. And if you are fighting a ranger in the open, most of the time your team will be around.

Warrior actually are the hardest to fight against on this ranger, but srsly in 50 paids you may see one Warrior…. And in our Team the Ranger takes the Bunker-Eles place so he goes to the far spot, ever seen a Warrior defending homespot? Of course would the best Mesm pwn a bad Ranger, but a good Ranger (not top, but knows how to play etc.) would be equal to the best Mesm and thats sad…
Guild Wars 2 depends on Skill, but its a lie to say, that if the best Mesm plays vs. the best Bunker-Ele, the Mesmer would win…

I have seen the best of classes duke it out and the mesmer has come out on top same with the guard against a ranger. Yes it is easier to beat a class with a ranger but skill/luck is more of a factor for the outcome in some situations. A warrior if played well can beat a retal guardian even tho retal guards almost completely counter them.

lilz shorty.1879:

jokitten390:

lilz shorty.1879:

On another note he is making claims that are somewhat true but there are a lot of factors that go into that then just those things mentioned so it ok at best.

Also what you stated, is not true. And skill is more important than anything when it comes to facing someone 1v1. The best Mesmer in game will not lose to a bad ranger. That is just preposterous. Also rangers do not own every class ingame 1v1. A warrior easily beats a ranger and a dps guaridan can as well. Rangers would win most of time in an open field but most of the time you are fighting in small compacted areas so that is not the case. And if you are fighting a ranger in the open, most of the time your team will be around.

Warrior actually are the hardest to fight against on this ranger, but srsly in 50 paids you may see one Warrior…. And in our Team the Ranger takes the Bunker-Eles place so he goes to the far spot, ever seen a Warrior defending homespot? Of course would the best Mesm pwn a bad Ranger, but a good Ranger (not top, but knows how to play etc.) would be equal to the best Mesm and thats sad…
Guild Wars 2 depends on Skill, but its a lie to say, that if the best Mesm plays vs. the best Bunker-Ele, the Mesmer would win…

I have seen the best of classes duke it out and the mesmer has come out on top same with the guard against a ranger. Yes it is easier to beat a class with a ranger but skill/luck is more of a factor for the outcome in some situations. A warrior if played well can beat a retal guardian even tho retal guards almost completely counter them.

Of course skill and rng ( luck ) are factors. But holding skill equal, and over a decent sample size, trends emerge. Those trends inform you about balance relative to certain classes and there capacity to do X.

If , we have an elo system introduced and 90% of 100 groups at the top of the elo are running guardian/ele/mesmer it lets you know something about those classes.

You have to hold variables like skill and luck constant when comparing class balance.

It’s been 2 months that we (Origine-online) don’t use a mesmer on close point.
If you want to play with a mesmer, you use strat that resolve around it, without it you have to adapt and change strat, but mesmer can be countered and we’re doing well against mesmer teams.

daydream.2938:

Taym.8326:

jportell.2197:

Did noone here read the transcripts from the live stream with devs in short

“Mesmer portal is giving us problems looking at giving it to other classes”

I seriously hope this is not the plan. So instead of having to deal with one portal, people can run multiple classes that have access to a portal and rotate offnode easily. This is not the answer, Less access to free off node coverage is the answer not giving it to all classes this is a bad design decision. Things like keeping track of enemy numbers and locations should be rewarded and not “someone is contesting X” * 1 of 3 classes portals back * . I still think mobility needs to be cut back in order to allow for harsh penalties for misjudging the enemy numbers, or adding a bonus to misleading your enemy.

these are good points. at least you have an argument. But the situation right now is untenable. either more classes need portal so that it allows more comp variety ( though u can run non portal groups in paid, it is possible). Or , portal needs a nerf.

The status quo is the issue, the solution can go either way ,i’m not sure whats best personally.

I’d rather see portal not nerfed as much as I would just rather see it removed from PvP. They didn’t realize how big it would be but it is still something that I think mesmers should have and just de-nerf it and remove it from PvP because it is really REALLY helpful when you doing other stuff like dungeons (I know this is PVP but I just don’t want one of my fav skills nerfed AGAIN!)

They could adjust its pvp/pve ratio. but ya, i mean leaving it in for the pve crowd is fine.

Yup… If you have ever done dungeons its just like mandatory in COF and COE. But in hotjoins I still use portal (don’t know enough people for tourneys really). Even if they made it mesmer only in PvP i think that would be okay.

@ all the people yelling at me, calling me elitist/pretentious/bipolar/a big idiothead meanyface:

Relax.

I’m not sure where some of you are getting these ideas like me calling people bad because they can’t play without a mesmer. But ok. Lets start over.

Hi. My name is Follidus.

All I wanted to say was that mesmers are not required (it’s the name of this thread, so don’t tell me no one is saying this!). I want to grow this community, and honestly this mindset of “mesmer (or anything) is overpowered, we can’t win without it” is something that is hurting the future of this game. That’s why I’m taking the time to make these posts.

I’m not saying mesmers are bad. I’m not saying you suck if you can’t beat them. I’m not saying portal and timewarp should not be nerfed a little. What I’m saying is they are not required to win. This is all that I’m saying.

What I’m saying is that it’s harder to play something else as a backpoint defender. I’m not saying this to call everyone noobs and they suck. I’m saying this because it’s a fact: it’s a lot easier to defend a backpoint when you can portal back to it immediately. What I’m saying is just because defending a backpoint with a portal is easier does not mean it’s required. It does not mean there is no other way to defend a back point. It just takes more coordination and attention to the positions of the enemy team.

Am I saying this thinking I’m God’s gift to Guild Wars? No, I’m not. I don’t think I’ve said anything close to this. The thing is I will say this time and time again: I am really not that good at this game yet. I make all kinds of mistakes every round. What gets me is people that think they’re incredibly good at the game, lose, and then complain about class balance because they think they can’t play any better. It’s just a constant theme that seems to happen with MMOs.

But hey, maybe I’m just wasting my time. But let me know. Because if i’m still an elitist kitten that wants to brag about how good I am at a video game on the internet in your mind, then there’s no point in me posting on here anymore. I’ll just play the game and have fun playing it.

Its not mandatory in either of those dungeons. Ive been in groups as a Mesmer, and when it comes to that part with the flaming boulders nobody asks me to put a portal up. They just grab it and go, I think by now people learned how easy it is to get past those….. I actually have to OFFER to put up a portal, and even that gets turned town by Ele’s that can teleport and classes that can run fast. I never use portal in pvp, never saw the use in it and thought it was a waste of an utility. While in PvE I use it a lot to help people out. Same goes for the swamp fractal, in fact I find the using portal MESSES people up more. The parties that I am with get that swamp fractal done with so much faster without portal.

Eristina.5967:

It’s been 2 months that we (Origine-online) don’t use a mesmer on close point.
If you want to play with a mesmer, you use strat that resolve around it, without it you have to adapt and change strat, but mesmer can be countered and we’re doing well against mesmer teams.

Playing ranger on close point is something other teams are starting to do. I’m interested if the 7 days trial of temple comes into tournament rotation, what will happen with setups there.

In my humble opinion nothing is wrong with portal at all. Playing as a point defender without portal is pretty boring. You can never leave the point and the enemy probably won’t attack it, because if you are not a mesmer and defending close point you are probably very tanky. So you are just standing there and nothing is gonna happen all game. As a bunker guard in mid that’s not the case, because there will always be fights in mid. So who would want to play a close point defender without portal? Another point is portals beeing used offensively, which makes a game much more interesting because it makes room for unexpected things to happen.

I think giving portal to other professions would solve multiple problems at once. The common tactic right now in paids is to send an bunker or semi-bunker ele to kill the mesmer. If some other profession which is not as easy to kill would take the mesmers role, the much complained about bunker-ele tactic would be rendered useless. If multiple professions can do portal you can never be sure which one is coming back and that’s a good thing in my opinion.

I agree with Follidus that mesmer is not mandatory but it is much easier. Hence as a new team you would probably just take the mesmer because otherwise you couldn’t stand a chance against the established teams. For new paid teams a mesmer seems mandatory because they are maybe not good enough yet to play without one. Most of the time the problem of new teams (like mine) is getting used to each other and play together well. It is not that important which classes or builds you are using once you got your synergy as team to work. To get that to work the obvious choice is to take setup that is not too hard to play, like e.g. using a portal mesmer to defend your close point.

I am excited about the upcoming patches. :-)

agree 100% with taym, giving portal to other classes is a terrible idea. it will be a portal-fest. now instead of “requiring” 1 player with portal ( not required at all, 100% agree with follidus as well ), you can have 3 players with portal & still maintain comp diversity?

ANet, open up Public Test Server pls so that we can give you feedback on balance before it’s pushed live.

could maybe give the portal charges ( lets say 3 charges ). so 2 ppl could come through with the mesmer, but the charges would be depleted & the portal would dissipate, meaning nobody could go back through. or 1 could come back with mesmer, leaving a single charge for 1 player to go back through the portal. keeps team synergy of portal but reduces the ability to insta-gib with full squad & send a few back through once they drop a burst.

Ele/gaurdian are more mandatory than mesmers. Who are probably third on the all time appearence roster in paids.

And we still get griped about by people that can’t slow down and check their surroundings for cues about what mesmer is what amongst the clones. Someone in my guild that was doing PVP as a GUARDIAN somehow got owned by a mesmer. Instead of seeing if he may have done something wrong he just immediately started going off on how stupid the class was and that it needs nerfed into the ground. EVEN WORSE this guy has a main as a thief. So he should know at least some cues about what to look for with regards to stealth and decptive tactics. But no he just said that its the entire class thats dumb and OP (bunker guardian calling Mesmer Op something is definitely not right there). For THE most required class in the game that obviously has the biggest strengths when it comes to defense to say that another class is OP because he lost ONE fight is what is leading us down this road. People will never win every fight and I know this is about portal but that thing is getting shared which is just going to cause more griping IMO. I just want people to get over themselves and thinking they are entitled to win EVERY fight they have. You win some you lose some that is the point of competitive play in this game and every game. Losing does not equal that one class is OP and when someone that plays a class even more highly represented than a mesmer resorts to calling for a nerf bat and saying they are to OP and only x class should do this and its not fair that mesmers can. That is when the player base as a community needs to look at what they say and check to see if its warranted. Not just calling everything this or that. Players determine meta not developers. I have heard someone gripe that there are no armor templates thats because YOU have the power to choose whether YOU will be burst, bunker, dps, roamer, and so on. It should not be the devs responsibility to make sure that you win everytime regardless of class. Its ridiculous to have that mentality and hurts the community.

Hello,

As this thread is not inviting to constructive and healthy discussion, it is now closed.

Also remember to avoid off-topic posting and/or inflammatory comments.

Thank you.