Guild Wars 2

We all know the Mesmer is really useless in PVP since a long time. He’s nerfed to death and can’t compete with most of the other classes. Obviously Anet wants the Mesmer-class to be excluded from all Gametypes (PVP, PVE, WVW etc.). I’ve played 200 Matches PVP in the last 3 Days and I’ve counted 8! different Mesmers. There are only scrapper, necros, trapguards and thiefs. Anyone wants to play the Mesmer-class because it’s useless. Meta will be without Mesmer this time and the time after. Anet just remove the Mesmer-Class if you want anyone to use it. I thinks it’s nuf said.

Palindron.1964:

We all know the Mesmer is really useless in PVP since a long time.

lol. Maybe you missed the whole season 1.

style.6173:

Palindron.1964:

We all know the Mesmer is really useless in PVP since a long time.

lol. Maybe you missed the whole season 1.

This should be an excuse for making the mesmer useless now? And even in season 1 the Mesmer couldn’t compete with other classes. Season 1 was trapguard/Rev time. Maybe you talking about a different game?

I love seeing threads complaining about the overpowered mesmers and the underpowered mesmers on the same page of the pvp forums lol.

Moonlit.6421:

I love seeing threads complaining about the overpowered mesmers and the underpowered mesmers on the same page of the pvp forums lol.

Indeed. Simply awesome.

Customers have no clue what they want. ArenaNet can never make everyone happy.

Moonlit.6421:

I love seeing threads complaining about the overpowered mesmers and the underpowered mesmers on the same page of the pvp forums lol.

OVerpowered? LOL you must be a very bad player then losing against a mesmer

Season 1 is nothing but mesmer. That only bout a month ago. Also warrior says welcome to the club, at least u get to be useful during season 1. When u say dragonhunters rul season 1, u sounded like u never reach diamond. U barely see dh at diamond+ only revs, ele, scrapper, and druid.

Palindron.1964:

Moonlit.6421:

I love seeing threads complaining about the overpowered mesmers and the underpowered mesmers on the same page of the pvp forums lol.

OVerpowered? LOL you must be a very bad player then losing against a mesmer

Watch the higher tier tournaments. Every team at the time was running 2 revs and 2 mesmers. Dragonhunters disappeared after something like week 3.

Poor hot join mesmer :/

Palindron.1964:

We all know the Mesmer is really useless in PVP since a long time..

By a long time, you mean about a month ago or were you not awake during december?

I get the sentiment, however coming off the back of season 1 this is just in bad taste and is only going to start a hate train. BunkerChrono was to strong for the game type and did need a tone down.

Although objectively there has been an issue with under representation for mesmers historically, and many issues of them being sub par in the past especially when all we really had for dedicated competitive top players associated with the class was Helseth (who is often condi) and Supcutie, (who rolled to thief many times out of frustration of sub-par design.) I do not think it is constructive to make threads based around “remove X from Y” even though yes Chrono and mesmer could use some love.

The meta has always developed around what is lowest risk for the highest reward, and multiple classes have taken that slot multiple times, correspondingly there has been builds that taken the lowest slot multiple times. It is A-nets job to mediate this and create some middle ground between effort and reward which has historically failed although you can tell they are at least attempting to try (to some degree even if some some choices are terrible) by removing tankier amulets increasing the over all risk factor. But ultimately threads like this help no one in any constructive way, and just comes across as whining to those who for example suffered through season 1.

Mesmer specifically will suffer since the original design was incomplete (as stated by A-net on release, using much lighter terms such as “rough around the edges”), things were better for core mes prior to HoT, and after the damage nerfs post specialization patch, however the flaws of the initial design remain. Chrono by nature fixed some of those issues, but unfortunately gave rise to a build to strong for the game type and was over nerfed in a way that hurt all specs. It also does not help that mesmer has historically been a “noob stomper” class that takes down almost anyone who does not know how to fight it blind folded, and to be fair that is a majority of players in the game, and a vast number who are then going to be vocal. I know it’s stupid to teach people how to defeat you, but I often encourage people to explain things for the sake of a healthier game in the future.

Now as much as I would love A-net to just hotfix balance issues such as this and make the game a better place, not just for mesmers but do so for all classes. (in fact it aggravates me that they do not since they implied since release they wanted a balanced game to be an E-sport and the procrastination from doing what needs to be done just weighs heavily on anyone who cares about that endgame goal. Especially since it really didn’t need to take this long to get as far as we are now, with a lot of work to go.) It does not help undermining the entire game by shouting “remove crap cuz you clearly didn’t want it to be gud >:(”. All it does is rile people up.

Also let’s be honest anyone who participated in seasons 1 knows there was a rather large flood of mesmers unless you played stronghold all day, and even then… So it really doesn’t do you, or your cause any favors to protest otherwise.

For personal reasons I actually did not get to play as much of season 1, which is partly lucky since I was not a huge fan of the chronobunk, but with limited playtime even I saw quite a ton of mesmer representation. Even if for IMO the wrong reasons :/

TL;DR = bold text

Mesmers arent underpowered and need no buff, its few other classes that are outperforming and need nerf (having lots of sustain and dmg and utility at same time), that making, not just mesmer builds but also other, not so viable. Mesmers are still very strong vs other.

I would cry if they deleted mesmers. I love my mesmer.

Mesmer was an iconic class of GW1 and still is in GW2. In my fourth year of GW2, my beloved Mesmer has been considered trash tier the majority of the time.

I remember when Warrior heal would completely remove multiple shatters worth of damage and they’d kill me with stun followed by 100 blades. Guaranteed instant death.

I remember when thieves loved to see Mesmers on the other team because is was an easy kill farm with almost no risk.

All this kittening about Chronobunker is actually kind of funny. Back in the day, when Hambow ruled all things, they’d tell me “L2P.” This was in spite of the fact that the healing signet made it impossible for me to do significant damage to them.

So to all those kittening about chronobunker I can only say ; “l2p” It’s a shame that players were not willing to learn to counter a chronobunker. Too many preferred to simply complain about it.

i agree pvp would be much healthier without having a class that can instantly teleport between 2 points, has stealth, crazy burst, cc and basically is a ranged thief with better mobility

Lexander.4579:

i agree pvp would be much healthier without having a class that can instantly teleport between 2 points, has stealth, crazy burst, cc and basically is a ranged thief with better mobility

You forgot to type Kappa

everyman.4375:

Lexander.4579:

i agree pvp would be much healthier without having a class that can instantly teleport between 2 points, has stealth, crazy burst, cc and basically is a ranged thief with better mobility

You forgot to type Kappa

im not one of the twitch chat basement dwellers neither an internet meme specialist spending days on 9gag and leddit but if i get it right “kappa” is written in the end of some sort of sarcastic remarks

however thats a serious and accurate post so perhaps you should check your knowledge of memes or whatever kitten “kappa” is

Mesmer has less stealth than thief, less bursts, less cc, less mobility and less damage, your point is invalid.

and have less clones than thief too i bet

Maybe you only play in hot join or without any traits … and without amulets … and sigils .. and keyboard, this could explain your opinion.

Oh yeah i forgot, thief is 1000 times easier to play than mesmer.

everything is easy to play in this casual game, you silly cupcake

If your reason for removing the Mesmer is because he has stealth, then you can remove Thief and Engineer aswell.

In view of your signature, you probably play Thief as your main, right? I think we should remove his stealth and burst aswell, cuz it’s waaaaaaaayyyyyyy to OP. Not….

Stealth is one of the me mechanics the Mesmer is working with, just as the Thief does. Why do you complain about the Mesmers Stealth, if Thief actually works way more with it? I don’t see the logic in your arguments Lexander, but actually that isn’t very weird, because those aren’t arguments. I suppose that you just can’t handle Mesmers very well.

Just ignore Lexander, he likes to troll and derail any thread about mesmer.

Mesmer has been more or less uncompetitive for about 2-3 years. It fills thief’s roaming role but teams need to build around it to prevent mesmer from being a rally bot. Even Helseth would spend a lot of time disengaging or running from spawn when most people just remember his portal acts.

In HoT there’s a dramatic shift in mesmer’s role to point holder, perhaps too well. But with the recent changes mesmer loses significant amount of surviving potentials. Unfortunately mesmer can’t really become a decent bruiser. Out of all the bruiser builds mesmer has the least potential due to damage depended on destructible illusions, especially when so many AoE thrown around nowadays.

That leaves mesmer back to roaming role, which will likely end up as what we had in the past 2-3 years, but worst for obvious power creep reasons. Devs tried to push for balance and Esports, but such roundabout change back to the start is rather disheartening.

the fact that every mesmer fanboy is mentioning the same mesmer player over and over again in their attempts to prove that mesmer class is bad only shows how narrowminded they are

Do you realy think mesmer is good, at the moment ?

Lexander is a ball of bitterness LOL

mesmer is one of the best duelists in game when properly played, pairing that with portal utility skill which is easily as good as elite skills of most classes in game puts them in a pretty good spot

Try playing warrior in PvP. See how much fun you won’t have. I see mesmers way more than warriors. The only time I really see warriors is when they are on the daily.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Just ignore Lexander, he likes to troll and derail any thread about mesmer.

Mesmer has been more or less uncompetitive for about 2-3 years. It fills thief’s roaming role but teams need to build around it to prevent mesmer from being a rally bot. Even Helseth would spend a lot of time disengaging or running from spawn when most people just remember his portal acts.

In HoT there’s a dramatic shift in mesmer’s role to point holder, perhaps too well. But with the recent changes mesmer loses significant amount of surviving potentials. Unfortunately mesmer can’t really become a decent bruiser. Out of all the bruiser builds mesmer has the least potential due to damage depended on destructible illusions, especially when so many AoE thrown around nowadays.

That leaves mesmer back to roaming role, which will likely end up as what we had in the past 2-3 years, but worst for obvious power creep reasons. Devs tried to push for balance and Esports, but such roundabout change back to the start is rather disheartening.

This is a good analysis.

Mesmer wasn’t that good for 2 years but I still feel it was still playable and making decent contribution. But current state, the traditional shatter archetype just feels extremely underwhelming that you basically achieve nothing outside of a few moas.

The mechanics of the mesmer is outdated and the powercreep contributes to this too. They added a 90% reduction in the indirect damage that ilusions receive in pve to patch it after HoT. The Chronobunker only was the candy to hide the reality and unfortunately coincides with the season, which generates enough hatred by some as you can see. The quickness on finishing was the main problem in our case. But they decided to nerf it in several ways plus other changes to erase bunkers or extreme bunkers in general. Although you still can find some build in other professions When they’ll enable rankeds again but about all in ESL we will see.

In any case it seems that they are going to release a last patch before the season so…. who knows if things can change or not. Although I doubt that much will change, there would be little time to maneuver before starting the league. I imagine that will be more tweaks than anything else.

OP, you are exaggerating. Mes are still wanted in raids and are still playable in pvp (dunno about wvw, i gave up on it long time ago).

Just because you can’t faceroll right now on mes doesn’t mean there are no players that like to play mes and class should be removed (thief was in even worse situation in season 1, i still played the class and would hate it if anet would have deleted it). As poster before said, what killing mes (and frankly a lot of other builds) is power creep (inclusive all dat aoe spam) that was introduced with HoT. If anything Anet should be focusing on reducing it than “deleting” classes.

As far as complains about mes not being viable for 2 w/e years – absolute horse crap. I have met/fought with/against good mes past few years and they were doing more than fine. In fact i loved to run spike duo with mes before HoT (after xpac went live nobody wanted to play with mah thief -_-).

The class simply requires certain amount of skill/attention/game knowledge (dps builds at least). Chronobunker was too faceroll, attracted too many fotm rerollers and spoiled average mesmer players, imo.

kitten is spreading.

Is this a serious thread?

Most of my brethren mesmers embarrass me when they type on this forum.

Cynz.9437:

OP, you are exaggerating. Mes are still wanted in raids and are still playable in pvp (dunno about wvw, i gave up on it long time ago).

Just because you can’t faceroll right now on mes doesn’t mean there are no players that like to play mes and class should be removed (thief was in even worse situation in season 1, i still played the class and would hate it if anet would have deleted it). As poster before said, what killing mes (and frankly a lot of other builds) is power creep (inclusive all dat aoe spam) that was introduced with HoT. If anything Anet should be focusing on reducing it than “deleting” classes.

As far as complains about mes not being viable for 2 w/e years – absolute horse crap. I have met/fought with/against good mes past few years and they were doing more than fine. In fact i loved to run spike duo with mes before HoT (after xpac went live nobody wanted to play with mah thief -_-).

The class simply requires certain amount of skill/attention/game knowledge (dps builds at least). Chronobunker was too faceroll, attracted too many fotm rerollers and spoiled average mesmer players, imo.

I do not agree. Most real mesmer players play this class way before expansion and stick to this class because we enjoy the shatter build not the bunker build.

Current mesmer is even worse than thief in season 1. Neither mesmer nor thief have the fight ability against all the bruiser specs. But thief can fill the cap/decap role because of its superior mobility. All mesmer can rely on is portal. But in uncoordinated play, portal is not as impactful.

Current state for mesmer is the worst since I started playing the game two years ago. There was a time mesmer got completely shut down by thief when SD is the meta. But even then, you still have some wiggle room to be useful as long as you know enough tricks to survive thief.

Since 4 days there’s no Mesmerdaily. But every day is Necrodaily. Lol Anet

Palindron.1964:

Since 4 days there’s no Mesmerdaily. But every day is Necrodaily. Lol Anet

lol I noticed this too, I’m still pvping on my mes (I always prefer to underdog specs for pvp – I played warrior for season 1) But it keeps forcing me to leave pvp to finish my daily. Gah!

Seriously though, mesmer is not terrible, but I’d prefer to take this time to buff their sustained damage, which has always been a frustration with the class. So I think buffs should focus on that domain.

Chronomancer has like the best support dps wise in PvE. Post is a joke.

MadRabbit.3179:

Chronomancer has like the best support dps wise in PvE. Post is a joke.

Guy you are SO embarrassing

Palindron.1964:

We all know the Mesmer is really useless in PVP since a long time.

Wrong. Unless you’re talking about base mesmer but every base class has been eclipsed by elite specs.

Palindron.1964:

I’ve played 200 Matches PVP in the last 3 Days and I’ve counted 8! different Mesmers. There are only scrapper, necros, trapguards and thiefs.

So what?

Palindron.1964:

MadRabbit.3179:

Chronomancer has like the best support dps wise in PvE. Post is a joke.

Guy you are SO embarrassing

The sheer fact that you can’t contest that assertion on fact alone, but rather by personal insult is what’s embarrassing. Even after the nerf to alacrity to 33%, they are still in the meta for raid and fractal groups.

At no point in this thread have you provided like anything resembling a reasonable argument to support your point of view. You have just alluded to this fact that we are all apparently aware of regardless the uselessness of the mesmer. Yet, despite we all apparently know this, majority of people disagree with you.

Why do I even bother coming to the forums. Every other thread is like this.

Well just have a look at the other topics talking about the Mesmer. This class is used to play only ONE BUILD to have a small chance to survive. And even this build is not competitive with other classbuilds. Cmon dont be so ignorant.

Palindron.1964:

Well just have a look at the other topics talking about the Mesmer. This class is used to play only ONE BUILD to have a small chance to survive. And even this build is not competitive with other classbuilds. Cmon dont be so ignorant.

you definitely didn’t play ele during dhumfire times

then you would truly know what it means to have 1 build and extremely small chance to survive~

mesmers were NEVER in bad state, they just weren’t always stupidly faceroll (besides old PU condi)

MadRabbit.3179:

Palindron.1964:

MadRabbit.3179:

Chronomancer has like the best support dps wise in PvE. Post is a joke.

Guy you are SO embarrassing

The sheer fact that you can’t contest that assertion on fact alone, but rather by personal insult is what’s embarrassing. Even after the nerf to alacrity to 33%, they are still in the meta for raid and fractal groups.

At no point in this thread have you provided like anything resembling a reasonable argument to support your point of view. You have just alluded to this fact that we are all apparently aware of regardless the uselessness of the mesmer. Yet, despite we all apparently know this, majority of people disagree with you.

Chronos are not in the meta anymore for raids, no matter what people think. The math has been done a long time ago and 33% alacrity to 2 others excluding yourself with increased cds on all of your wells is too much. Get a Burnzerker instead.

For the record I say 2 other people getting alacrity, cause of the new squad priorty restriction. If you have a Chrono, a Thief, a Revenant, and a Guard and Ele, only the Guardian and the Ele will see any benefit from the alacrity gained cause the Thief is autoattacking and the Rev is also trying to upkeep Facets, therefore autoattacking. Plus the Chrono is doing kittenpoor dps, so the Chrono is excluded from the benefits as well.

2 people. Such wow. Many benefit.

Azukas.1426:

Is this a serious thread?

Most of my brethren mesmers embarrass me when they type on this forum.

oh yea? Please show us how good the class is after the recent “balance” by getting a pro team with a mesmer together and bring home a championship, I cant wait to be proven wrong.

Cynz.9437:

Palindron.1964:

Well just have a look at the other topics talking about the Mesmer. This class is used to play only ONE BUILD to have a small chance to survive. And even this build is not competitive with other classbuilds. Cmon dont be so ignorant.

you definitely didn’t play ele during dhumfire times

then you would truly know what it means to have 1 build and extremely small chance to survive~

mesmers were NEVER in bad state, they just weren’t always stupidly faceroll (besides old PU condi)

for one meta period that ele had it really bad, the class end up dominated multiple metas. I’d trade that experience as a Mesmer.

Say the class was never in a “bad state” is just try to downplay how the class always been treated / neglected by Anet compare to other classes.

Meh, it doesn’t matter what state mesmers are in, whether overpowered (chronobunker), “cheesy” (wvw PU Condi) or underpowered (try playing any interrupt/lockdown build right now…) there will always be an extremely irrational hatred for the class from part of the playerbase.

In any case I didn’t jump on the chronobunker bandwagon because I don’t enjoy that role/playstyle.

However all other mesmer builds have been eclipsed by the HoT elite spec power creep that has yet to be nerfed on other professions (with the only exception of warrior).

And I still think many foundations of this class are not yet as the should be – for example the phantasm mechanic could all be reworked to active skills like shield #4, and so on.

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

Is this a serious thread?

Most of my brethren mesmers embarrass me when they type on this forum.

oh yea? Please show us how good the class is after the recent “balance” by getting a pro team with a mesmer together and bring home a championship, I cant wait to be proven wrong.

I rest my case

Are we talking about Mesmers or Chronos?

Bunker Chrono may have been OP. Mesmer most certainly wasn’t.

msalakka.4653:

Are we talking about Mesmers or Chronos?

Bunker Chrono may have been OP. Mesmer most certainly wasn’t.

You’re trying to reason with players that have said the following:

“Thief cannot permanent stealth”
“Mesmer has more stealth than thief” (pre chrono and post PU spec nerf)

I wouldn’t bother if I were you, do as the rest of the mesmers are doing, finding another game because classes will never have parity.