Guild Wars 2

Hi. So I’ve played a few thousand matches in the 1 and half years since I’ve started GW2. Yeah, pvp is what I enjoy mostly in this game.

I just want to express my feelings as a “not so new” pvper: I’m getting really bored with the absolute lack of build diversity available.

I’ve had time to play through a good number of different metas, and it’s the same roundabout every time. The developers tweak this trait and that class, creating a new status quo, where unless you adapt and play the flavors of the month, you might as well go pve with that non-meta attrocity you barfed out.

Is it really that much to ask to make the elementalist’s scepter and staff builds stand a chance? Or the hammer on the revenant or the greatsword on warrior and guardian ?

I’m honestly not playing ranked anymore because I just cant see the same skills on my ele, necro and other characters, and I dont want to impose my “bad builds” on players in ranked. I’m so bored of this lack of diversity I’m already looking to better shores.

Rant over

In an MMO diversity is one of the pillars. In the attempt to balance classes by narrowing down each to one build/role Anet destroys the fun of the game for their main playerbase.
Balance is important and even needed to keep diversity but diversity > balance to bring exitement.

Yeah, the classes feel like they have all be shoved into a specific role, with little room for any kind of variation. It’s disappointing because they said that they didn’t want to use the “holy trinity” and that the classes wouldn’t be be there to fulfill just one role.

OP, why not playing something else than Ele, for a change? (I would love more viable options for each classes, but since this is not the case… why don’t you try something else?)

Jourdelune.7456:

OP, why not playing something else than Ele, for a change? (I would love more viable options for each classes, but since this is not the case… why don’t you try something else?)

Like I say at the end of my post, I play different classes. Ele, necro, revenant, warrior, guardian.

But overall it feels like 1 class = 1 build right now. I cant surprise anyone if I use a non-meta build because I’ll either get melted by condi pressure or I wont live enough to kill a bunker engineer.

Of course on the other hand I pretty much know by heart all the enemy rotations, but does that sound like a fun game to you?

Imagine how hard the game would be to play if every weapon set was viable for every profession in sPvP. The sheer number of combinations you would have to be aware of would be too high for the vast majority of the players to be effective. Certain weapons sets and skills work better for certain game modes. People need to be reasonable with their requests.

Faux Play.6104:

Imagine how hard the game would be to play if every weapon set was viable for every profession in sPvP. The sheer number of combinations you would have to be aware of would be too high for the vast majority of the players to be effective. Certain weapons sets and skills work better for certain game modes. People need to be reasonable with their requests.

Oh how dreadful if we saw every weapon set a profession could use. I for one love less options. One build per class is the best thing Anet ever did

On a much more serious note, knowing what everyone is running before the match starts and not seeing any variation would be (is) really boring and not fun to play, even if you do win the games

Topher.5631:

Faux Play.6104:

Imagine how hard the game would be to play if every weapon set was viable for every profession in sPvP. The sheer number of combinations you would have to be aware of would be too high for the vast majority of the players to be effective. Certain weapons sets and skills work better for certain game modes. People need to be reasonable with their requests.

Oh how dreadful if we saw every weapon set a profession could use. I for one love less options. One build per class is the best thing Anet ever did

On a much more serious note, knowing what everyone is running before the match starts and not seeing any variation would be (is) really boring and not fun to play, even if you do win the games

Diversity is key for a MMO. One build per class and rest garbage is like a death sentece.
GW2 is not a pure PvP shooter/game where a fistfull of premade characters are enough. If trying to compete in this departement wirh other games like OW it will loose. It has to be diffrent and this means allow build options and unique characters.

This may or may not be a relatable thought but I wish there was the kind of build diversity you see in wvw. That alone has made me play less pvp and more wvw. Being surprised and fighting something different fairly often. It’s nice and I wish the same for pvp

Build diverssity means Anet had to balance most classe on some stats, that is not how the game is suposed to be i guess.

TehHobNob.4687, build diversity actually “lacks” on WvW, the thing is there are alot of weak build arround, just need to select a weapon or utilities that Anet dont care on X class to be in bad spot, and people tend to adapt and run almost the same thing.

And some strong gimmick build on pvp are way more stronger in WvW due stats, people tend to envolve to use those builds all tend to converge to the same.

Wolfric.9380:

Topher.5631:

Faux Play.6104:

Imagine how hard the game would be to play if every weapon set was viable for every profession in sPvP. The sheer number of combinations you would have to be aware of would be too high for the vast majority of the players to be effective. Certain weapons sets and skills work better for certain game modes. People need to be reasonable with their requests.

Oh how dreadful if we saw every weapon set a profession could use. I for one love less options. One build per class is the best thing Anet ever did

On a much more serious note, knowing what everyone is running before the match starts and not seeing any variation would be (is) really boring and not fun to play, even if you do win the games

Diversity is key for a MMO. One build per class and rest garbage is like a death sentece.
GW2 is not a pure PvP shooter/game where a fistfull of premade characters are enough. If trying to compete in this departement wirh other games like OW it will loose. It has to be diffrent and this means allow build options and unique characters.

’twas merely sarcasm haha

Topher.5631:

Wolfric.9380:

Topher.5631:

Faux Play.6104:

Imagine how hard the game would be to play if every weapon set was viable for every profession in sPvP. The sheer number of combinations you would have to be aware of would be too high for the vast majority of the players to be effective. Certain weapons sets and skills work better for certain game modes. People need to be reasonable with their requests.

Oh how dreadful if we saw every weapon set a profession could use. I for one love less options. One build per class is the best thing Anet ever did

On a much more serious note, knowing what everyone is running before the match starts and not seeing any variation would be (is) really boring and not fun to play, even if you do win the games

Diversity is key for a MMO. One build per class and rest garbage is like a death sentece.
GW2 is not a pure PvP shooter/game where a fistfull of premade characters are enough. If trying to compete in this departement wirh other games like OW it will loose. It has to be diffrent and this means allow build options and unique characters.

’twas merely sarcasm haha

It was obvious that the first sentences were sarcasm.. but it triggered a response annyway :-).
In WvW you have diversity because it ofte ndoes not matter. Strengh in Numbers is more important. But there are some runes/armor that are clearly to good and some builds like dire/perplexity mesmer push it int OP. Also durability rune is broken in groups where manny run them … It should be shaved it´s sharing …

I’ve played less than 10 games since mid season 2… I just got so tired of fighting the same class, using the same the same build, using the same skill rotation, with no deviation, the only difference being nameplates…

I want fun gameplay, not gameplay where I can count in my head “1, 2, 3, dodge… 1, 2, 3, burst… 1, 2 ,3…”

That’s not fun, it’s not competitive, I won’t come back to pvp until there are MANY viable builds again… I’ll just stick to PvE, WvW, and trade post wars…

Allison The Strange.4519:

I’ve played less than 10 games since mid season 2… I just got so tired of fighting the same class, using the same the same build, using the same skill rotation, with no deviation, the only difference being nameplates…

I want fun gameplay, not gameplay where I can count in my head “1, 2, 3, dodge… 1, 2, 3, burst… 1, 2 ,3…”

That’s not fun, it’s not competitive, I won’t come back to pvp until there are MANY viable builds again… I’ll just stick to PvE, WvW, and trade post wars…

Man time to make the most important decision in your life.

Hardcore spvp players play Unranked. Fast queue, better matching with people of your skills level, make all the differences…

But you know what? There is way more people that play different build in unranked.

Sayain (sp..!) is still playing burn guards, for Christ Sake!

Chaith play a druid build that seems less bunky but more damaging than meta build… Oh ho! Yeah hundred of great players still play Guild Wars 2 with their own build, homebrew and minor changes to WINS into unranked.

But… well, be sure it’s good before doing that… I hate losing, unranked is not for casual anymore. It’s Ranked queue for bad casual players right there.

So, it’s time to work on your unranked MMR and get to play with the real spvp players out there.

Cheers! And yes… this was the best decision in my 4 years playing Gw2. I did found that the mode I like, is better than the supposed to be “competitive” mess we got in rank luring all bad players from unranked!

Super… awesome move, I will never use a backpack anyway. I am a skin user.

Jourdelune.7456:

Man time to make the most important decision in your life.

Hardcore spvp players play Unranked. Fast queue, better matching with people of your skills level, make all the differences…

But you know what? There is way more people that play different build in unranked.

Sayain (sp..!) is still playing burn guards, for Christ Sake!

Chaith play a druid build that seems less bunky but more damaging than meta build… Oh ho! Yeah hundred of great players still play Guild Wars 2 with their own build, homebrew and minor changes to WINS into unranked.

But… well, be sure it’s good before doing that… I hate losing, unranked is not for casual anymore. It’s Ranked queue for bad casual players right there.

So, it’s time to work on your unranked MMR and get to play with the real spvp players out there.

Cheers! And yes… this was the best decision in my 4 years playing Gw2. I did found that the mode I like, is better than the supposed to be “competitive” mess we got in rank luring all bad players from unranked!

Super… awesome move, I will never use a backpack anyway. I am a skin user.

Look, it’s not like your cheerful enthusiasm is gona change the reality here. The reality being that non-meta weapons are MUCH worse than the meta ones. I dont care about you giving as example professional esport players. Those examples mean zero. Those guys would likely win matches while carpet-riding.

The way GW2 skill system was built doesn’t help either, since your most important skills you have to choose them in blocks of 3 or 5, and kitten you if you wanted that meteor shower coupled with dragon’s breath.

The point is that no matter how long you play, at one moment in time you’re gona realise how much more this game could be if they 1) make ALL weapons competitive or 2) unlock the skills from the weapons, and perhaps, just perhaps, you’d be on your way to having 10% of the cool skill system GW1 had.

bitter vet rant over/come at me newbros

Look, it’s not like your cheerful enthusiasm is gona change the reality here. The reality being that non-meta weapons are MUCH worse than the meta ones. I dont care about you giving as example professional esport players. Those examples mean zero. Those guys would likely win matches while carpet-riding.

The way GW2 skill system was built doesn’t help either, since your most important skills you have to choose them in blocks of 3 or 5, and kitten you if you wanted that meteor shower coupled with dragon’s breath.

The point is that no matter how long you play, at one moment in time you’re gona realise how much more this game could be if they 1) make ALL weapons competitive or 2) unlock the skills from the weapons, and perhaps, just perhaps, you’d be on your way to having 10% of the cool skill system GW1 had.

bitter vet rant over/come at me newbros

I’ve been playing sPvP on and off since launch. I recently came back to see what’s changed and I’m still disappointed. This game will never have anything close to the PvP that GW1 had. There’s a reason they broke their promise of continued expansion releases for GW1 and announced GW2, they wanted to cash in on the casual PvE crowd. It’s been obvious since day one. As I scroll through the PvP forums here I see absolutely no activity from Anet staff. PvP has always and will always be an after thought in this game. As a vet with over 5,000 hours in GW1, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Pvp has a completely different set of skills that are optimal for it over pve or WvW. Nearly every post I see complaining about build diversity isn’t from someone saying they have mastered all the classes and are bored that they only have a couple optimal builds. It is I want to use weapon x, trait line a, and class 1 and it isn’t optimal foe pvp therefore the game isn’t balanced.

I played gw1 since the beginning and it had the same “issue”. There were a limited set of skills and builds that were effective. To me what made its PvP better was the varity of game modes, and the reward system for hall of heroes was heads and shoulders above anything they have implemented.

Faux Play.6104:

It is I want to use weapon x, trait line a, and class 1 and it isn’t optimal foe pvp therefore the game isn’t balanced.

You’ve pinned one of the main problems right there: they didn’t create PvP versions of the skills (and traits).

Faux Play.6104:

Nearly every post I see complaining about build diversity isn’t from someone saying they have mastered all the classes and are bored that they only have a couple optimal builds.

I hope you are a dude that’s played pvp more than 20 games. There’s always some guy that’s played 4 years of WvW and a handful of conquest matches coming down here to explain things to people that do nothing but sPvP. But assuming you’re not that guy, then you understand sPvP is a world of its own. I’ve invested at least a few hundred matches in 7 out the 9 professions, and honestly I do complain quite a lot about the lack of build diversity.
Because, you see… “build” diversity doesnt mean CLASS diversity. It means that every time I see a dude standing on a capture point in Foefire (also sick to my stomach of the same 3 maps btw), i can immediately assume with good certainty what skills are on his skillbar and in what order he’s gona push dem buttons.
Sometimes he’s gona fake pushing that CC button and sheath his weapon, other times he’s gona dodge my CC, but it’s pretty much the same brainfart for 7 minutes.

And you might easily shut off my rant with a very convenient and predictable “then go play some other game”, the truth being that this game has a good combat system which I enjoy and there is nothing else better as an alternative, which is a sad sad reality.
Of course I could just go outside and enjoy the summer sun and beach and waves and girls, which I think is exactly what I’m going to do. Arenanet, you’ve lost yet another faithful customer to the cunning deceptiveness of summer and boobs

mastergreki.8017:

Hi. So I’ve played a few thousand matches in the 1 and half years since I’ve started GW2. Yeah, pvp is what I enjoy mostly in this game.

I just want to express my feelings as a “not so new” pvper: I’m getting really bored with the absolute lack of build diversity available.

I’ve had time to play through a good number of different metas, and it’s the same roundabout every time. The developers tweak this trait and that class, creating a new status quo, where unless you adapt and play the flavors of the month, you might as well go pve with that non-meta attrocity you barfed out.

Is it really that much to ask to make the elementalist’s scepter and staff builds stand a chance? Or the hammer on the revenant or the greatsword on warrior and guardian ?

I’m honestly not playing ranked anymore because I just cant see the same skills on my ele, necro and other characters, and I dont want to impose my “bad builds” on players in ranked. I’m so bored of this lack of diversity I’m already looking to better shores.

Rant over

can i have all your gold plz ty

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

can i have all your gold plz ty

Yes you can. But I have to notify you that I will need an intial deposit of 900.000.000 copper and 12x stacks of globs of ectoplasm in order to unfreeze my assets invested in the offshore hedgefund of a prominent nigerian skritt. Said skritt will only accept copper, following certain traumatising events endured in Auric Basin after which he will not accept anything “too shiny”.

Looking forward to your kind reply.

Yours trully

mastergreki.8017:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

can i have all your gold plz ty

Yes you can. But I have to notify you that I will need an intial deposit of 900.000.000 copper and 12x stacks of globs of ectoplasm in order to unfreeze my assets invested in the offshore hedgefund of a prominent nigerian skritt. Said skritt will only accept copper, following certain traumatising events endured in Auric Basin after which he will not accept anything “too shiny”.

Looking forward to your kind reply.

Yours trully

i dont have that much gold or ecto, but i guess u can leave the game and keep ur gold if u dont want to give it away. have fun.

mastergreki.8017:

Hi. So I’ve played a few thousand matches in the 1 and half years since I’ve started GW2. Yeah, pvp is what I enjoy mostly in this game.

I just want to express my feelings as a “not so new” pvper: I’m getting really bored with the absolute lack of build diversity available.

I’ve had time to play through a good number of different metas, and it’s the same roundabout every time. The developers tweak this trait and that class, creating a new status quo, where unless you adapt and play the flavors of the month, you might as well go pve with that non-meta attrocity you barfed out.

Is it really that much to ask to make the elementalist’s scepter and staff builds stand a chance? Or the hammer on the revenant or the greatsword on warrior and guardian ?

I’m honestly not playing ranked anymore because I just cant see the same skills on my ele, necro and other characters, and I dont want to impose my “bad builds” on players in ranked. I’m so bored of this lack of diversity I’m already looking to better shores.

Rant over

The new trait system killed build diversity. I told the devs as soon as they announced it (as many other people did) and they replied to me: “It’s too soon to tell.”

Well now time has proven that (1) I and many others were right and (2) they unknowingly destroyed their own gameplay variety. It’s quite clear that the new people responsible for class balance do not play the game actively else they would have understood why it was important for certain class to have stats points linked to trait lines, and why the original developers were just more aware of class mechanics.

They ignored warnings and went ahead anyway with the misconception that “All stats were equal for all classes”, and rendered the same amount of stats to all classes independent of builds and weapons, it was a huge experiment destined to fail from the start. Just a terrible, terrible idea. Hundreds of unique and original builds ceased to be viable that day as Anet were praising their new stat system and some of us were redefining the meaning of double facepalms. What a failure, and ultimately the reason why so many of us took breaks from the game.

Since then they just tried to fix what they broke and 1 year later they never succeeded to make the game as interesting and varied as it was before the trait system change.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

mastergreki.8017:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

can i have all your gold plz ty

Yes you can. But I have to notify you that I will need an intial deposit of 900.000.000 copper and 12x stacks of globs of ectoplasm in order to unfreeze my assets invested in the offshore hedgefund of a prominent nigerian skritt. Said skritt will only accept copper, following certain traumatising events endured in Auric Basin after which he will not accept anything “too shiny”.

Looking forward to your kind reply.

Yours trully

i dont have that much gold or ecto, but i guess u can leave the game and keep ur gold if u dont want to give it away. have fun.

No. You can’t have it. It’s mine. Not yours. Mine. I’ll just login to count it, and think how happy you could have been, then logoff and think of you. And how sarcasm is wasted on you.

The new trait build did not kill build diversity. It’s been 1 class 1 build at the top end for a long time before HoT.

OP, i get your frustration. but i dont actually think the reason is the game itself, ( well, it is the game too. but not only. ) its the players playing this game. look around. all these players dont want to spend so much time theory crafting a new build. most of the time, only the really skilled players can theory craft good builds that actually work in spvp. the majority of spvp players are just casuals who play for fun and lolz. and most of them dont want to risk losing cus they are running a potentially bad build they working on, so they just play whatever others have told them works better.

so really, there is always something you can come up with that can work in the current meta. however, like others have said, spvp is a very specific game type, so specific builds are always going to do better at conquest.

mastergreki.8017:

Jourdelune.7456:

Man time to make the most important decision in your life.

Hardcore spvp players play Unranked. Fast queue, better matching with people of your skills level, make all the differences…

But you know what? There is way more people that play different build in unranked.

Sayain (sp..!) is still playing burn guards, for Christ Sake!

Chaith play a druid build that seems less bunky but more damaging than meta build… Oh ho! Yeah hundred of great players still play Guild Wars 2 with their own build, homebrew and minor changes to WINS into unranked.

But… well, be sure it’s good before doing that… I hate losing, unranked is not for casual anymore. It’s Ranked queue for bad casual players right there.

So, it’s time to work on your unranked MMR and get to play with the real spvp players out there.

Cheers! And yes… this was the best decision in my 4 years playing Gw2. I did found that the mode I like, is better than the supposed to be “competitive” mess we got in rank luring all bad players from unranked!

Super… awesome move, I will never use a backpack anyway. I am a skin user.

Look, it’s not like your cheerful enthusiasm is gona change the reality here. The reality being that non-meta weapons are MUCH worse than the meta ones. I dont care about you giving as example professional esport players. Those examples mean zero. Those guys would likely win matches while carpet-riding.

The way GW2 skill system was built doesn’t help either, since your most important skills you have to choose them in blocks of 3 or 5, and kitten you if you wanted that meteor shower coupled with dragon’s breath.

The point is that no matter how long you play, at one moment in time you’re gona realise how much more this game could be if they 1) make ALL weapons competitive or 2) unlock the skills from the weapons, and perhaps, just perhaps, you’d be on your way to having 10% of the cool skill system GW1 had.

bitter vet rant over/come at me newbros

The cool gw1 system….

You mean the one where every single GvG ran the exact same professions, using the exact same skills.

It still remains that way today. Both GvG teams are mirrors of each other. Each professions intent is exacting the same as their opposition. The deciding factor is who uses their team rotations in a more timely manner.

It is way they put a timer on GvG matches..because they had become stalemates.

Add as much diversity as you wish. there will always be a meta. If you’re not playing it..you’re losing.

TehHobNob.4687:

This may or may not be a relatable thought but I wish there was the kind of build diversity you see in wvw. That alone has made me play less pvp and more wvw. Being surprised and fighting something different fairly often. It’s nice and I wish the same for pvp

You haven’t heard?

WvW is the purest Grand Stage of unscripted Player vs Player action in GW2. More so then sPvP atm which is pretty sad, when you add how unbalanced each tier is atm(mostly Tiers 2 to 4, almost like League sPvP matches). See what I did there,.