Guild Wars 2

I see lots of people talkin’ about WvsW like it was PvP…sorry but you are wrong.

WvsW is just a different pve with semi-intelligent mobs (And sometimes more stupid than ai ones) with pve gear and pve skills and requires way less single player’s skills than real pvp (Your zerg is bigger and you suck? You will win anyway)…so no, WvsW can’t be considered PvP at all.

sPvP and tPvP are the only 2 options right now, so stop posting WvsW stuff in sPvP topics, because it’s totally different….from gears and skills to overall balance.

thats only our opinion. WvW is PvP, but its true is not fair and unbalanced.. but thats the nature.

I guess you never played in trully organized guild focused on open PvP.. because then you should see it a bit differently..

WvW is as much a PvP as that costume brawl thing that happened during last months PvE update…

Aragiel.6132:

thats only our opinion. WvW is PvP, but its true is not fair and unbalanced.. but thats the nature.

I guess you never played in trully organized guild focused on open PvP.. because then you should see it a bit differently..

It’s not my opinion…WvsW falls under PvE rules, infact PvP nerfs and gears don’t affect WvsW…..if you take a look at skills you can clearly see that you have PvE versions in WvsW and PvP versions in PvP. It’s really easy to undestand

Archaon.6245:

Aragiel.6132:

thats only our opinion. WvW is PvP, but its true is not fair and unbalanced.. but thats the nature.

I guess you never played in trully organized guild focused on open PvP.. because then you should see it a bit differently..

It’s not my opinion…WvsW falls under PvE rules, infact PvP nerfs and gears don’t affect WvsW…..if you take a look at skills you can clearly see that you have PvE versions in WvsW and PvP versions in PvP. It’s really easy to undestand

ok.. great, so now i can say that sometimes im also PVE player.. great thats new achievement for me.

ok.. great, so now i can say that sometimes im also PVE player.. great thats new achievement for me.

WvW is PvP in the same way that games like UO, DAoC, AO, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Eve, and all the rest are PvP games. World PvP is what this entire genre grew up on and those were, arguably, the golden days of the MMORPG.

Either way – regardless of whether it’s open or canned, it’s all PvP.

Noctred.6732:

WvW is PvP in the same way that games like UO, DAoC, AO, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Eve, and all the rest are PvP games. World PvP is what this entire genre grew up on and those were, arguably, the golden days of the MMORPG.

Either way – regardless of whether it’s open or canned, it’s all PvP.

If it was the only “PvP” aviable maybe…but you can see that everything in WvsW from rewards to gears, to levels and skills fall under PvE world…you earn gold, you use PvE stuff, you use PvE skills and you can just gank players 30-40-50 lvs under you….there ‘s nothing like s-tPvP there, yes you fight ppl instead of monsters….but it doesn’t mean it’s pvp, you can’t even see the names on the other team….like they are, guess what? Player controlled monsters…

WvWvW isn’t pvp, it’s RvR!

RvR is to pvp what war is to lasertag

or what warriors are to rangers

uhm, what ?
PvP means Player versus Player, and as long as you’re playing against other players it’s PvP, no matter what kind.

And btw: PvP using PvE gears, PvE skills and to get PvE rewards, is what most of MMORPGs are all about since a while.

What the hell is this kitten, ofc it is PvP. Why do you even care? What do you want to achieve with this post?

Archaon.6245:

you can’t even see the names on the other team….like they are, guess what? Player controlled monsters…

Except they’re players. You’re a player… fighting other players… PvP.

It’s not perfectly balanced or fair, but world PvP never has been and never will be in any game.

how is it not PvP? its a different type of PvP yes but it’s still PvP, some organised guilds are incredibly fun aswell in world PvP.

PvP – Player Versus PLayer
PvE – Player Versus Enviroment
PvEvP – Player versus Player Vs Enviroment (Aion springs to mind with this type more than GW2)

just because WvW is not in a sandbox does not mean its not PvP, quite frankly take your head out of your kitten

Teabaker.9524:

What the hell is this kitten, ofc it is PvP. Why do you even care? What do you want to achieve with this post?

As i said…people have to stop posting WvsW screens or videos to prove something PvP related…it doesn’t make sense

In wvwvw I see players fighting players so…

Unless you can show me that the pvp only patch changes only affect spvp then maybe you’ve got a point, but they could easily implement those changes to work in all player vs player engagements. WvWvW is different than pve, in many ways, such as badges of honor etc.

Kilger.5490:

In wvwvw I see players fighting players so…

Ok so let’s make it this way…WvsW is a PvEvP…but it’s not real s or tPvP ok? So don’t talk BS about PvEvP on PvP’s posts…Sounds correct now? You want to prove something related to WvsW skills or classes? Go WvsW section…here’s not your place

Doesn’t WvW stand for Player vs Door?

Kilger.5490:

In wvwvw I see players fighting players so…

Unless you can show me that the pvp only patch changes only affect spvp then maybe you’ve got a point, but they could easily implement those changes to work in all player vs player engagements. WvWvW is different than pve, in many ways, such as badges of honor etc.

Have you ever read just one skill patch? I don’t think so..

Let’s take the last one for example:

Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.

Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.

Tactical Strike: This skill’s damage has been increased by 10% in all formats. This skill’s daze duration has been reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP.

Shield of Judgment: This skill’s protection duration has been set to 3 seconds from 5 seconds in PvP only.

Selfless Daring: This trait had an efficiency with healing power that was reserved for healing skills only and has now been reduced to its intended level. Heal scaling has been reduced by 50% in PvP only.

Do I have to continue?

PvP only actually means: Those skills have been nerfed only in sPvP and tPvP, WvsW would not be affected at all because you use PvE skills there…so what’s your point?

Yasha.5963:

Doesn’t WvW stand for Player vs Door?

I thinks it stands for Zerg vs Zerg vs Doors/Walls/Mobs

@OP

tPvP isn’t that much better. It isn’t team death match elimination, but holding control points “PvCircle”.

Regrets of Sini.6083:

@OP

tPvP isn’t that much better. It isn’t team death match elimination, but holding control points “PvCircle”.

And we all thank anet for those circles…there are so many nab zergs already fighting around mindlessly for points with circles, i can’t imagine without…..

Archaon.6245:

I see lots of people talkin’ about WvsW like it was PvP…sorry but you are wrong.

WvsW is just a different pve with semi-intelligent mobs (And sometimes more stupid than ai ones) with pve gear and pve skills and requires way less single player’s skills than real pvp (Your zerg is bigger and you suck? You will win anyway)…so no, WvsW can’t be considered PvP at all.

sPvP and tPvP are the only 2 options right now, so stop posting WvsW stuff in sPvP topics, because it’s totally different….from gears and skills to overall balance.

It is not sPvP (so yes people should not post WvW stuff in the sPvP forum), it is however PvP, you have NPCs in sPvP (Svanir, Chieftan, Lords, etc), it doesn’t magically turn into a PvE raid, because the objective is to outscore the opposition, that some points come from killing an NPC is irrelevant to that, the same applies to WvW.

Yes they do have differenet balancing needs, but then WvW also has different balancing needs to PvE, I assume there to be a lack of resources to treat is seperately.

I didn’t start this without a point…everyday i see people complaining about wvsw dmg, stealth, portals and other crap on this part of the forum…..usually after like 5 mins someone reminds them that here (s-tpvp) is not wvsw and noone cares about it because it’s another world separated from the mists, with different skills, balances and rules…and as usual they start whining like “It’s PvP like tournaments!! There’s no difference! You just don’t want to hear me!!! My screens are legit for proving umbalances. It’s not a l2p problem” and crap like that….and it’s annoying…it’s like trying to expain something to a brick wall, so i hope those brick walls can finally understand it with this topic..but i’m not so sure..

There is a WvsW section for a reason…use it

I agree that claims about spvp balance shouldn’t come from wvw experiences because, as said, balance in that environment isn’t parallel to balance in spvp. However, that doesn’t mean wvw isn’t pvp – it’s just a different form of pvp with a different ruleset.

I guess you just misrepresented your argument? Cause tbh what you said in the OP and what you’re saying now are two pretty different things.

Noctred.6732:

I agree that claims about spvp balance shouldn’t come from wvw experiences because, as said, balance in that environment isn’t parallel to balance in spvp. However, that doesn’t mean wvw isn’t pvp – it’s just a different form of pvp with a different ruleset.

I guess you just misrepresented your argument? Cause tbh what you said in the OP and what you’re saying now are two pretty different things.

They’re not different…i still think that those zerg vs zerg are not real pvp, it’s much more like pve events where tons of mobs spam around and you just have to kill them or being killed…while completing an event that rewards karma and gold…no skills needed, if your zerg is bigger (Or you bought better stuff) you win…if not you lose. End of the story I don’t think you can’t see that this is really more similar to pve than pvp (or spvp if you want) even without talking about pve gears and skills, the only difference is that those mobs are controlled by uknown (For you) players…but the mechanic is the same, under all aspects….guild wars 1 pvp is based on skills not zergs, maybe i’m wrong but i don’t think anyone from gw1 would actually define wvsw as pvp….never

Something where the bigger horde with better weapons is going to win even if composed by totally unskilled people called pvp would have simply been an abomination in gw1…

WvW needs some work, but its most definately PvP…

I think the general answer being given here is that wvw is pvp, but in this game it is not classified as such. That is apparent because there are many changes that affect only pvp and not wvw, along with different gears and such.

Archaon.6245:

Kilger.5490:

In wvwvw I see players fighting players so…

Unless you can show me that the pvp only patch changes only affect spvp then maybe you’ve got a point, but they could easily implement those changes to work in all player vs player engagements. WvWvW is different than pve, in many ways, such as badges of honor etc.

Have you ever read just one skill patch? I don’t think so..

Let’s take the last one for example:

Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.

Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.

Tactical Strike: This skill’s damage has been increased by 10% in all formats. This skill’s daze duration has been reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP.

Shield of Judgment: This skill’s protection duration has been set to 3 seconds from 5 seconds in PvP only.

Selfless Daring: This trait had an efficiency with healing power that was reserved for healing skills only and has now been reduced to its intended level. Heal scaling has been reduced by 50% in PvP only.

Do I have to continue?

PvP only actually means: Those skills have been nerfed only in sPvP and tPvP, WvsW would not be affected at all because you use PvE skills there…so what’s your point?

Are you sure it works this way in wvwvw and these patch dont apply there? This is my original provision (duh)?

Would be interesting if World vs World ended sooner. It’s kind of unfair for all the night raiders to take all our bases while were sleeping.

I say add a queue button for World vs World where the game starts when each team gets 100 players with a time limit of 4 hours. People can join to make up for if someone leaves. Not only would it fix problems where we have to queue in long lines in the heavily populated servers, but it prevents night raid junk from happening and it would be much more easily to upload a 4 hour game onto Twitch TV rather than a game that lasts 1 week.

WvWvW is as much pvp as MCDonalds is a restaurant. You know, its kinda true, but you dont really say to your date ‘lets go out to a restaurant’ and then take her to McD.

As long as you fight another player its called pvp.
So tired of so many so colled “pro” guys from tournaments who think they are the best pvp players out there.
I play spvp, tpvp and wvw and I enjoy all, of course its different but for me if you really want to get better at pvp skills go fight spvp because its a mess, there, everyone is for himself there and many times you need to fight more than 2 enemies witch improve your skill, making you faster in decisions and moving. Tpvp for me is for players who have a good team and they have good strategy. Many times I find myself in tpvp distroying 1vs1 and really I don’t find tpvp, as 1vs1 good, as a team yes, but as 1vs1 they are far from it.
Thats why you will also see here in forum that they say that spvp is for kids, its just a stupid argument behind they hide because, there is no team to help you if you are bad, no one to call if you cant get the point or keep it.
Also calling wvw as just a game of mobs is kinda stupid, you apply strategy in tpvp like also guilds apply strategy in wvw but at different scales.
My point of view is if you want to get good as 1vs1 go spvp, dont run with the zerg, do your job, get points, protect them and stay as much alive as you can against big groups, if you have a team then go tpvp and if you want war and mass scale fights go wvw.
All are fun and none of the people that enjoy only wvw, spvp or tpvp mean they suck or are not as good as you because you are so pro tournament guy.
Remember that behind you is a team in tournament and you win mostly because your team win and you have great strategy.
When we will get ranks in pvp and you will be top player and call yourself what you really are until then stop behaving as a pro.

Julival.4318:

As long as you fight another player its called pvp.

This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in a month. And I read a lot.

I don’t even want to go into details why WvW isn’t PvP, but I will just to prove you wrong.

WvW involves too much mechanics that are out of single player’s control. We have insanely huge groups of players that do all kinds of stuff from gathering mushrooms and onions, killing chickens, dolyaks, veteran NPCs, ending with some guys trying to build a trebuchet or destroy a gate.

Explain to me, how is this PvP? Of course you will sometimes get to kill someone (most probably instagibbing some upscaled low level guy).

But it’s not PvP.

end of story.

leman.7682:

Explain to me, how is this PvP?

How were roaming 8v8’s and 8vZ’s in DAoC frontiers PvP?

How were base wars in AO PvP?

How was rifting in vanilla Aion PvP?

How was small group roaming in Tera PvP?

How was Dread Alliance-era UO PvP?

How was null sec griefing in Eve PvP?

How was Blood Monarchy-era Asheron’s Call PvP?

…and so forth.

All of the above feature elements of PvE but ultimately, you’re out there looking for other players to fight on some scale. Just because some people are rolling around WvW maps picking carrots and farming dolyaks doesn’t mean other people aren’t rolling around in small groups looking for skirmishes.

Believe it or not, for a long time in MMO’s world pvp was considered premier content and canned pvp was considered scrub kitten for people who couldn’t handle uneven fights and unpredictable environments.

I don’t necessarily agree, but it’s just a matter of perspective. Both playstyles have their merits and it’s all pvp in the end.

These things have changed since tPvP is quite difficult and WvW is easy-mode.

I can kill most of these PvE scrubs without my gear and with random traits/utilities since I know what they’re going to do even before they think of it.

That comes from my experience in tPvP and not from WvW aka PvE.

leman, you are the one that sound ridiculous.
pvp=player vs player or maybe i am wrong and you have a better definition
As long as you fight a player and not a mob is pvp and stop saying that “most probably instagibbing some upscaled low level guy”. Not all people who play wvw are undergeared or underlevel. You can fight enemies that are good pvp players with good gear.
As I said thinking that wvw is for non pvp players or spvp is for kids or tournaments are for pro players is just stupid. People that are good pvp players can enjoy and play wvw as much as tpvp or spvp and you can find good fights in wvw as well.

WvW and Tpvp both have their flaws right now. Neither cater perfectly to the people who want to play as a group and kill people.

I wont say that the current dynamic in WvW is PvP. There are guilds that PvP in WvW but they are not the norm and the current meta-game does not support them, as much as it does the zergs. There is not as much room for skilled guild play as there are in other games with open pvp.

But at the same time Tpvp is not entirely PvP as well. The games are not dominated by killing but by point control and pve mob kills. You get more point for sitting at an objective and avoiding a fight or killing a PvE mob than actually finding, fighting, and killing an enemy player. It also forces you into 1v1 and 1vx situations which completely takes away from the concept of group play.

Tpvp is standalone play, not group play. The core mechanics go against what a lot of people actually think group pvp is.

Which is the reason they go to WvW to get those guild on guild fights, where you actually fight and kill each other. Not just dance around the map all split up doing PvE tasks.

leman.7682:

These things have changed since tPvP is quite difficult and WvW is easy-mode.

Again, it’s just perspective.

There are lots of bad tourney teams and pugs that get rolled over by more experienced teams. There’s no difficulty – it’s just a one-sided blowout.

On the flipside, not everyone in wvw is undergeared or underleveled. It’s very feasible to be roaming around with a small group and come across another roaming group – equally geared, equally leveled. You might come across a marginally larger group of players and wipe them much like you used to see with GvZ’s in DAoC or any other game where extending enemy groups was a valid tactic – and trust me that kitten is not easy when you’re going against organized groups.

You’re basically just umbrella generalizing. Yeah, there’s PvE that goes on in WvW. There’s also classic world PvP that goes on there.

I’m not arguing that there are good players playing WvW.

I’m just stating the reality – WvW is an unbalanced and unstructured environment where competitivness is limited. Hence, there is probably marginal number of actually skilled players.

You can argue as long as you want, I want participate in this discussion since I don’t care what other people think about WvW. In my view it is for PvE players and it is PvE-oriented.

your view is a very limited view…but as anyone you can have it because it’s…your view

WvWvW is PvP and PvE. You fight players there for PvP. You fight mobs and pve things there

Its not PvP in its purest form, but you still fight other players

sPvP/tPvP isn’t PvP in its purest form either.

Oozo.7856:

sPvP/tPvP isn’t PvP in its purest form either.

Indeed

Archaon.6245:

Aragiel.6132:

thats only our opinion. WvW is PvP, but its true is not fair and unbalanced.. but thats the nature.

I guess you never played in trully organized guild focused on open PvP.. because then you should see it a bit differently..

It’s not my opinion…

Right. It’s not your opinion. It’s simply wrong.

Since the definition of PvP wasn’t enough for you, here’s additional evidence: http://i.imgur.com/sw2ol.png

And this is what the sPvP sub-forum has come to. Bickering over preferred method of PvP based entirely on opinion.

If players are fighting players, it’s PvP. The only difference is in the details.

And no, your opinion on an objective fact doesn’t matter.

Also no, they shouldn’t strictly balance for WvWvW, just make sure nothing is breaking it (very few things can).

‘’Player versus Player isn’t Player versus Player’’ – 2012

Some of you new generation gamers need to google up your acronyms. PvP is Player vs P…..(not Pillar à la WoW. Just kidding!)

You’re fighting other players.

That’s PvP.

Sigh.

WvW is PvP (well, a bit). WvW is not STRUCTURED PvP however.
This is STRUCTURED PvP forum. sPvP stuff goes here. WvW stuff goes on the forum below.

/thread

In my experience people with sPvP titles in WvW are free kills.

LoL is not PvP. DOTA is not PvP. GW1 is not PvP. sPvP is not PvP.

just clearing things up according to the OP’s argument.

anyways, you are right that WvW stuff shouldn’t be posted here.

Noctred.6732:

WvW is PvP in the same way that games like UO, DAoC, AO, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Eve, and all the rest are PvP games. World PvP is what this entire genre grew up on and those were, arguably, the golden days of the MMORPG.

Either way – regardless of whether it’s open or canned, it’s all PvP.

Aye was a huge fan of DAoC, I do consider it player vs player.

However I dislike when people use WvW as an example of skill or class balance. For this game Ill go the not calling WvW PvP… I will call it WvW and keep WvW to the WvW forum.