Guild Wars 2

Let’s discuss the new changes to Khylo, as well as how the impact overall play.

Camera:

Removal of the roof is great for camera visibility, this is good.

New treb entrance:

This is good for low-levels and to give a new exit, perhaps reducing the distance from spawn to far and mid, esp. at the start of the match. At higher levels, this entrance will not change too much.

New pathing:

Thieves were hurt BIG this patch, with less overall mobility compared to other classes, as well as more non-blink spots (many of which don’t make sense). This also removed the roof as a means of juking/overall mobility.

BUG? It seems that red side you cannot port from the ground onto the walkway, but blue side you can. This must be a bug.

Other thoughts?

I feel opening up clocktower as much as they did makes this map feel smaller which will also make it easier to snowball. Khylo was already one of the smaller maps, now it’s just dumbed down as well. I think the primary reason as to why it was changed this way is because of thieves and DH’s ability to teleport instantly from outside bottom and being able to insta-gib someone without that person even seeing them.

Havent had time to enter to pvp yet, but how is the treb situation now? did the repair kit change gave more incentive to play trebuchet more often?

I really like the open clocktower, even though its ugly. But getting to mid from sides is now way too easy (i mean it was easy before, but now…). You also can´t kite that good anymore (no roof, no walls, no path below the middle node).

btw i just realized we got achievements now for every map.. nice to see that players get even more encouraged to go for monsters on forest or lord on legacy all the time..

Honestly, I never saw the Khylo roof as a visibility problem or as a camera issue. If anything, it removed advantages to classes with porting abilities. I’d like to see some side point camera/layout rework on Skyhammer, because it’s still horrible – not sure who’s idea it was it to make ranked.

Vote here on which one you prefer pls. Currently it seems a overwhelming majority prefer Khylo to how it was and I think most of the disagreement is what you guys did to the clocktower.
http://www.strawpoll.me/12296891

I’m mostly concerned on how easily ranged specs can hit things in middle. There’s no really good LoS around the point itself, so I’m afraid of Longbow Druids becoming even more powerful than they already are. Of course teams might just end up running excessive projectile hate to counter this.

Edit: scratch that. I just went into my arena and I see there are two big pillars surrounding the point! How I forgot about that I don’t know, but they’re there, so that’s good.

It looks so dumbed down and basic, just disappointing really. The extra exit is good, and if there was another way to fix the camera issues, that would be all that needed to happen

Normalizing the jumping puzzles on both sides is a fine idea, but this new map takes all the risk/reward out of jumping. I mean there are literally staircases.

The new tower looks worse, and is way less interesting, losing the multi-level aspects old Kyhlo had.

Is this going to be a trend? Dumbing down all the kiting/jumping on maps? Seems pretty weak.

As for the ports, that’s what it looks like, more or less.

The big square corner platforms don’t work, ever. The small ones below do work, always.

I like the changes to the spawn, but that’s about it. The rest I think is a major downgrade to the map.

The clocktower looks Quagganed now. Sorry. It just does. Quite possibly the dumbest change to the game I’ve seen.

What have you done to Khylo?? I was planning to play again after more than a year of stopping when I saw that a new update is on its way, and this change makes me want to continue NOT playing the game anymore.

It’s one of those “don’t fix it if it ain’t broke” or something.
But yeah, I get that there are skill interaction/balance issue involved but gutting the map like this and dumbing it down so hard is so disgusting and disappointing for a returning player.

Seriously, the first time I ran up to clocktower after the changes, I thought I was lagging and the map hadn’t completely loaded. Awful, just awful. Two thumbs (and other appendages) down.

This map and capricorn were two of the best for discouraging zerging. Zerging is the least fun and creative way of playing. They don’t send 4 or 5 of their team to one point in the proleague games i’ve seen played. If I wanted to do that I could just go do the world boss train. Zerging contributes to poor matches and blowout rate.

Ok so someone complained that the matches are longer on those two maps because you have to actually think to win. So you destroy both the maps. And the mini clock tower looks like a 5yo did it.

If you are going to mess with maps at least put some thought into it.

Khylo was terrible for the 3 martial classes with no teles. I mean ranger could make up for the horrible deficit via ranger, but otherwise it was way too much jumping puzzle to achieve a little bit of side node support.

Teles were WAY too powerful on this map. It’s just that the majority of classes have them so most people didn’t care.

Ithilwen.1529:

I see this as yet another kitten to Mesmer. Why is ANET so quick to trash Mesmer?

Yes mesmer and not the 75% of teleporting classes. The movement field has been like mildly almost evened between a mesmer and a scapper.

Ithilwen.1529:

I see this as yet another kitten to Mesmer. Why is ANET so quick to trash Mesmer?

and sword thieves

I kinda wish they’d make the map larger tbh, it’s a pretty tiny map. Like, centralise the spawn points, have the trebs near the central exits and widen the map, extend the distance between the outside points.

Personally I’d have preferred they made khylo clocktower default destroyed walls at the start of the match, kept the side walls as they’re great for LoS. The change to the “jumping puzzle” to get up is nice for beginners and I don’t have any preference of it.

The clock tower used to look nice and professionally designed, now it looks like something put together with the timesplitters 3 map maker. Please rethink the design of this area, if camera was a problem you could have left it as walls destroyed all the time and it fits thematically.

Sometimes, every now and then, we just want to be able to play the same kitten game we bought into almost 5 years ago. Why Kyhlo was suddenly decided to be ruined by the camera of all things is beyond me.

We already got the new coloseum which solves open air fights and incidentally take teleport abuse to a level far and beyond Kyhlo.

Dariya.9380:

Honestly, I never saw the Khylo roof as a visibility problem or as a camera issue. If anything, it removed advantages to classes with porting abilities. I’d like to see some side point camera/layout rework on Skyhammer, because it’s still horrible – not sure who’s idea it was it to make ranked.

It definitely was a camera issue once the roof was destroyed. I had a case just the other week where the camera bugged through a rafter right when a warrior went for his headbutt combo, resulting in my death during the 0.5sec I couldn’t see.

I’ll go back through some of my recordings see if I can find a good example of the camera issue.

This patch removes most of the impediments to field of fire. That seems to be an ongoing trend.

By more-or-less removing Mesmer’s mobility edge, ANET cripples the class hard.

Moreover, it’s a large buff to DH, Ranger and Engineer on the map. It makes missle fire far more effective.

This is more-or-less a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and to some extent thieves. At the same time it makes Ranger potentially dominant along with DH.

I see an ongoing trend to simplify maps, “dumb them down.” There’s also a homogenization of the classes. Every class can do practically every thing. I definitely think that’s unhealthy for the game.

cutting diversity is always bad for long term exitment … Be it builds or maps.
I did´t see khylo since the patch but the walls and windows mid, s oyou can´t clearly see in or over it and the usage as cover to break los was an important part of the map.
Making jumping easier and removing camera issues is definitly a good thing.

Lack of old walls + NO VALID PATH TO HOPE crap is really killing me. Yes, JP needed a fix, roof could be easily fixed by treb shot but nooooo let’s ruin it.
Another map (together with skyhammer) that i don’t want to see ever again.

So they give extra mobility to classes that are not supposed to have it (rangers, guards). Then they cripple classes that rely on mobility on small map where getting advantage with mobility is already hard because map is small and supposedly slow classes have already short ways between points.

I see a trend here. Just why? Are we really that desperate for homogenization and dumbing down the game? Might as well delete all classes, then create only one that has 1 attack and 1 block. Super casual, super easy to balance. If i wanted to play tic-tac-toe, i would play that and not gw2 :/

Also, do you even test the changes you make? Because in case of skyhammer you clearly didn’t.

See this area? I can’t use any port (steal, shs etc.) while standing on this platforms because….. reasons? Anet, can you for once use mesmers and thieves for testing and not warrior bots? I mean this is just a joke. How did it make live is beyond me.

Port bugs aside, I just really don’t like how huge of an impact this is.
Opening up the Clocktower like this dumbs down the map and the gamemode in a major way. You can have a clear overview of the entire map, just standing on the middle node and doing nothing special. This has major impact on tactical movement and strategic thinking in itself, but also affects all mobility-reliant classes in ways that should have been predicted.
The update to the extra gate to leave spawn is decent, makes sense. The adjusted jumping puzzle is just lazy, there’s no skill/knowledge required to make this “jump”.

So in short, this update has nothing going for it aside of maybe the extra gate to leave spawn.
Don’t try to fix what isn’t broken, Anet. You got bigger things to worry about and the old map was fine.

I dont know why to change the clocktower that much.

1. Changing the jp is somehow ok
2. removing the roof is good
3. but why you remove the walls and windows ? … It dont like it
4. also removing the path through the clocktower makes it a way too simple.
5. 3rd Spawngate is good, but i dont think that this will change a lot to spawncamping when people can port up to the treb … you’d rather split the spawn path’s by a wall and change that a little bit.

Being honest, nothing needing fixing outside of the player’s.

Those jumps were obnoxiously easy to make and the port spots were even easier.

Just too many keyboard turners in this game now making all of the changes happen.

Inb4 Spam 4 + 2 zerkerscholar BearBow druid becomes meta.

Cal Cohen.3527:

The red side port failing is a bug and we are tracking a fix for it

Can you take a look at capricorn when you are into it pls? The rocks in front of blue gate now have invisible walls so you cant walk/ kite on them anymore. I hope this was not intended because invisible walls in pvp maps are a no-go in my opinion. When you dont want ppl to use these rocks for kiting then delete them. Even better: In case it was intended and you did it for balancing the map (no rocks in front of red keep – but sure some other stuff for los/kiting) then just give red keep some rocks too. The tendency to delete lot of kiting spots in several maps and simplify environment is nothing good i think…
greetings jazz

Extra exits were a good addition, but I miss the old clock tower. I like the idea of improving the camera inside the tower, but I miss the walls and windows. I wish there was another way to accomplish that without removing so much of the tower.

jessiestiles.9437:

This map and capricorn were two of the best for discouraging zerging. Zerging is the least fun and creative way of playing. They don’t send 4 or 5 of their team to one point in the proleague games i’ve seen played. If I wanted to do that I could just go do the world boss train. Zerging contributes to poor matches and blowout rate.

Ok so someone complained that the matches are longer on those two maps because you have to actually think to win. So you destroy both the maps. And the mini clock tower looks like a 5yo did it.

If you are going to mess with maps at least put some thought into it.

Sending 5 to a point all the time is never an effective strategy at any level of play. You sound like a disgruntled thief, elementalist or mesmer. I don’t know if any of the claims you made about pre-change Khylo are true anyway.

dmndbcK.3425:

Those jumps were obnoxiously easy to make and the port spots were even easier.

The problem was that one side’s JP could be completed faster with much less risk of failing.

It was changed to balance the sides.

Crinn.7864:

dmndbcK.3425:

Those jumps were obnoxiously easy to make and the port spots were even easier.

The problem was that one side’s JP could be completed faster with much less risk of failing.

It was changed to balance the sides.

It was changed to make the map very much easier for Rangers to dominate. Along the way it also removed any real obstacle to zerging. This was a major boost to DH and War.

Oh, and btw.. it crippled Mesmer and Thief on the map.

I rarely write a post in the Forums, because I see to many good ideas getting lost here never to be heard from again, but that patch really hurt.

I like the new exit of the spawns and the removal of the player-destructable objects and the new “jumping puzzle” is not bad either – a bit too easy for my taste but it allows classes without blink-skills to move faster.

The changes to the clock-“tower” really got under my skin though. I loved the natural feel of the map and the main feature was the tower in the middle. I must say I am disappointed how little consideration was applied here to keep the old theme of the map intact. I understand that the roof might have caused problems for some people – especially for spectators, but why not make a burned down tower? Add some smokey wreckage, a smashed clock face and some charred beams that reach lonely towards the stars over the burning skies!
Nahh it looks way better to add a boxing ring – fits perfect…

steelheart.7386:

Sending 5 to a point all the time is never an effective strategy at any level of play. You sound like a disgruntled thief, elementalist or mesmer. I don’t know if any of the claims you made about pre-change Khylo are true anyway.

I didn’t say all the time. How it works is on a shorter map you send 5 players to mid wipe out whoever is there with a short route to the next point wiping it and so on. Coliseum is the worst map for doing this as others have confirmed. Capricorn and Kyhlo were the best at discouraging this. At least if theres dh and war who can’t port up the tower it’s not going to happen.

I can only play heavy or medium classes because I live on the other side of the world from the server. Thief mes and ele require fast response times. My post had nothing to do with some imagined advantage the jumping puzzle gave me. Infact the better solution is to go back to the original map and make the jumping puzzle longer. If it gives so much of an advantage – lessen the advantage. Instead of ripping the map apart.

They didn’t even make mid clock tower look like it was burnt to the ground, or any effects that would resemble the reason it looks the way it does. It looks like an unfinished map, all because of cam issues in mid. Feels naked.

Saiyan.1704:

They didn’t even make mid clock tower look like it was burnt to the ground, or any effects that would resemble the reason it looks the way it does. It looks like an unfinished map, all because of cam issues in mid. Feels naked.

Agreed, Khylo is a map themed as a town in the middle of a battlefield, why the hell this clocktower looks so clean ,and undestroyed? its fine to make it look like a build under construction, but with all those trebuchets, that kitten build should look messy and kinda destroyed, not intact

Another thing to add, is, idk about you guys, but i miss that middle tunnel a lot, i used to use that tunnel a lot for protect or escape from middle and then comeback to the battle prepared, i dont feel i have an easy retreat route anymore.

Something i will give props is the third exit they added for go directly to the trebuchet, it totally looks viable as a normal exit as well, great addition imo.

I like the changes. Kylo mid and Skyhammer have too many structures in the way. Sometimes you are fighting blind because all you can see is the roof or column overhangs. Fighting blind gives an advantage to aoe spammers who don’t have to see what they are doing. They just cover the whole ground in large damage or interrupt fields. I think they should give all maps a pass, as some maps and small caps gives an advantage to some classes over others.

I agree with the previous poster about the removal of the middle tunnel that connects both sides. I don’t like that. It means you have to go through mid or walk all the way around. This give trebs a bit too much protection.

There was no camera issue… you just roll your freaking mouse wheel to change the zoom level.

I see no justification at all for this change except that it’s a hit to Mesmer and Thief.

Zoom, camera collision settings… So many options to help the apparent “issue”. Instead, we get this lazy “fix”.

I dislike the changes to the tower a lot. It’s way too basic, looks just visually lame. LoS was great in here before, now its bad. No incentive to risk moving around. Please return the clock tower back to what it was.

Saiyan.1704:

They didn’t even make mid clock tower look like it was burnt to the ground, or any effects that would resemble the reason it looks the way it does. It looks like an unfinished map, all because of cam issues in mid. Feels naked.

Ithilwen.1529:

There was no camera issue… you just roll your freaking mouse wheel to change the zoom level.

I see no justification at all for this change except that it’s a hit to Mesmer and Thief.

Wise.6058:

I dislike the changes to the tower a lot. It’s way too basic, looks just visually lame. LoS was great in here before, now its bad. No incentive to risk moving around. Please return the clock tower back to what it was.

I played only few matches in the new map. Overall I liked the new configuration of mid point. It gives a stronger perception you are fighting in a battle arena.

I’m liking the new map so far. The visibility is so much better, and I love the extra exit near camp. It’s definitely less frustrating to fight on mid.

Aesthetically, it is ugly af now. Gameplay wise, can’t say yet.

I think ArenaNet is moving away from diversity and moving more and more to standardized maps for “e-sports”.

Personally I liked the differences between the maps, I rather have more newer maps rather than tweaking old maps too much. And as such, if a more tournament oriented map is needed, then make one, rather than to assume every single map needs to have similar layouts save one mechanic.

#fixthethreadbug