Guild Wars 2

I am referring to the previewed picture of the new PvP interface coming in a week.

Did Arenanet ever come the thought that the inclusion of this cute, little, pointless stat could and most likely will have vast consequences on player behavior, leading to a generally poorer experience especially in the random format? Here is something that is not only completely not covered, but also directly detrimental to it: risk taking and focus on defense (as in, defending/holding points/lords and beating attackers back or delaying them instead of outright hunting them down. Even if “kill points” would be awarded to multiple players, deterring isn’t about doing enough damage to tag only. It’s also about positioning, bunkering, control, mind games, etc.); it could and will ruin your ratio. Trying to test a new strategy or build? Risk a huge hit on your stat.

As long as the main format of this game is anything but skirmish I see no place for such a statistic.

Exactly! If KD is goes live for tournaments, this would ruin the gameplay… i am sure of it. This happens in every game with a KD ratio.
I am even against kill points… If someone dies in a tournament, whole team deserves credit…

i miss that global exp gain (and also faction its) during GW1’s gvgs. it was a mini morale boost for me and my team!

But KD… it is a selfish stat naturally…. please do not make this mistake Anet. T_T

I just hope it is not there for the tournaments…

It’s a dumb stat to have in the game. But it is so obviously dumb that I don’t think most people with an actual clue will care about it at all.

Where did you see the screen-shot?

I will add that, in my experience, KDR only ever creates a venomous environment. It’s used as the public end-all be-all, regardless of context. People tout theirs like it’s the holy gospel of skill determination, and if yours is low for any reason, you’re automatically bad.

Of course, those people’s opinions mean little, and I don’t care to ever have any sort of meaningful relationship with said people. KDR itself means basically nothing, as well. At the end of the day it’s just a fun stat, but I personally believe it’ll have a negative impact on the community.

If it does release, I’ll just have to do what I did in AoC: repeatedly throw myself into death to sacrifice my KDR intentionally. I’d much rather people think I’m bad before I paste them to the ground.

EDIT – I don’t think it’ll have any impact whatsoever on competitive play. “The Maelk Award” was created when the captain of Evil Genius’s DotA 2 team, Maelk, went I believe 0-21 with Venomancer, with his team still winning the game. Professionals will know that getting kills and avoiding deaths aren’t the most important things. The only thing they’ll care about is winning the match.

This is strictly a “fun” pub stat.

I actually love the idea of a kill/death ratio happy to see its being added.

I am sorry , but this is a very bad idea Arenanet
Atm teams in any kind of pvp format , get 5 points per kill

U should check League of Legends and how much each player blames others as a feeders when they die

In the same time , we will have morons saying <<shut up noob i have more kill than u , u scrub>>

I understand u want to motivate ppl to win > ppl to get better with their skills > less whinning of the forums > more data for urself what need a nerf-buff , but is kinda bad thing

Edit: Have u seen ppl in League of Legends or any other games , where John is fighting an enemy > John reduce his HP to 5% > and then a random player gets the final kill with the auto attack ?
Have u seen the kittentorm , following up betweenJohn and his teamm8 ?
<<u kitten@@ moron , go to hell , i @@ , u scrub , i hope u get canser u mofo >> etc etc

Edit2: Either u will have more ppl going AFK or logout from SPvP + TPvP , cause their mad with their team

Sorry, but I don’t agree with you guys. I want to see more stats. I want to see damage, healing, K:D, etc.

K/D ratios only belong in a death match type game, because that’s where they matter the most.

And if this stat seriously strokes your ego, that is a personal self esteem issue.

Win/Lose > Kills/Deaths.

Until there is a deathmatch mode (and I mean proper deathmatch, without teams) then there is no point having Kills/Deaths ratio.

Two people have expressed positive interest, but neither gives a reason other than “I want it”.

Honestly curious: why do you want it?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Two people have expressed positive interest, but neither gives a reason other than “I want it”.

Honestly curious: why do you want it?

i think it’s obvious. They play thief.

also here’s the image:

https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/october-2012-concept-6-FS.png

Sprawl.3891:

also here’s the image:

https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/october-2012-concept-6-FS.png

Ah ok , that acceptable :P
Helps with PvP guilds appications or boast on the forums :P
No Problems here :P

Edit: What is <<Rival>> ? Getting killed most times from that player ?
Or it calculate Win/Loss vs an other person with the same proffession ?

@sprawl i actually play an elementalist but nice try.
@cogbyrn I want it so I can have prove at how well I dominate people. Its basically gives me facts about how much of a beast I am. I already know I am pretty much godlike but having numbers to back this up will be awesome.

I think its pretty neat and would like a k/d ratio although I’m still believing this is something only you the player would see and nothing a teammate can see like how there is no profile view of you character.

I quite like the look of the new interface, however I do agree that adding a KDR statistic can mostly only have negative ramifications on the game’s community. Not only will it promote elitism, effectively dividing the community, but it will also have an impact on how people play the game; you should expect to see more “cheese” builds, more passive play, more kill-farming and so on so forth.

I would love to have a KDR stat that is personal only, not viewable by other players, so if that is the case here then I welcome it.

Remove it

Only encourages Gankfest random SPVP

SPVP ganking is bad enough as it is with the high burst builds and zergs

Now you will get kids sitting in spvp all day ganking ppl not doing objs

Objectives are overated, Id rather just kill people any day. Who seriously enjoys sitting on a point all day?

After playing Mobas like Hon/Dota and fps games, K/d is an awful stat to have. It discourages playing as a team and influences players to play selfishly. Solo queuing for tournys would become a headache and finding pick up groups would be worse.

In Tpvp if your team starts losing people will only seek kills. Rather than defending or capping a point they will roam around like a zerg in spvp. The reason for this will not only be ego driven but to make themselves look better. Things like rank, rating, stats are generally showed off or used by players to form teams.

The more stats get added the more messages like these will pop up in game, "LF 2 members for tournys must be rank 30, at least 2.0 k/d, 60% win rate, X average damage, blah blah blah. This will create an artificial barrier and a sense of elitism that many hated in other games such as WoW arenas or Moba games.

Not every player builds their character to be a killing machine and instead chooses to support. Stats like k/d punish these players and force them to play to a certain build in order to find teams. In a game like Hon I’ve seen players with a .7 k/d support amazingly well and we would not have won without them. A result of this is players seeing that .7 k/d and assume the player is awful and will discredit anything they say.

The last thing I would want in GW2 pvp is that kind of elitism infecting the community and breed a bunch of pretentious players like Mobas have.

Spvp is enough of an FPS as it is.

Keep K/D out.

Oh dear, this isn’t good at all. It will totally put people off rolling bunker builds and support builds, which are crucial to the game right now. /Signed for keep it out of the game.

add it and i hope they add healing/damage to counter the my K/D is low because I only play bunker.

They give us a tool that gives us more information about our game and you cry doom. Well go ahead and cry you little babies heads. “Wea, weah, weaaahhhh, there giving us death kill stats” bunch of freaken babies.

Cogbyrn.7283:

If it does release, I’ll just have to do what I did in AoC: repeatedly throw myself into death to sacrifice my KDR intentionally. I’d much rather people think I’m bad before I paste them to the ground.

OMG!

lol!

I (and 3 of my guild mates) did the exact same thing in AoC in order to tank the kdr stat before group queuing for the PvP minigames.
The random duel requests you’d get from guys were much fun as well before curb stomping them.

I do agree with the other posters however that in “pub play” kdr only makes the game worse. In actual competitive play it’s a meaningless stat that gets ignored or mocked.

This is a bad idea, straight up

Responsible players in conquest are bunkering points and getting shafted on glory by missing out on kills/capping as it is. This stat is about to put your most selfless team-players at a further dishonor…

I love the idea of more stats, but this one is a bad move right now. Great stats to glorify in conquest might be: total damage done, total time on point, total support given, and yes total kills, but you made a game revolve around team play, points, and objectives, so kills are only 1 part of the equation/effort…

The only place this stat belongs is in an arena context

This a bad move Anet like someone said above, bunker builds will disappear, I’m used to play bunker build’s all the time, but if this goes live it is glass cannon specs all the way.

I’ll be indifferent as always if it does come out. But I’m pretty close to saying its better to not have a scoreboard and be judged simply through acts.

Can’t wait for horrible players to ask for screenshots of tourney player’s K/D to prove their skillz.

Please, don’t put this feature in.

Yes, please keep it out. I really don’t want to see people flaunt their K/D spread. It’s just bad taste and smells of Call of Duty. A kill counter would be fine! A straight up K/D counter is a huge turn-off for me.

How about:

-Svanir/Chieftan/Keep Lord kills
-Base captures/neutralizes
-Players healed (up from downstate)
-Most kills from a Trebuchet in a match

Stuff like that. Use your imagination!

Schwahrheit.4203:

But I’m pretty close to saying its better to not have a scoreboard and be judged simply through acts.

Indeed. At least in team objective based games for sure.

KDRs are good for deathmatch mode FPS games and….

Well, that’s about it actually.

Oh come off it. Skilled players will use it as a useful metric to improve. Nothing, and I repeat nothing, should be based off or balanced off of sPvP hot join.

Bads don’t need excuses to be Bads. They will continue to gank if this is added or not.

For those of you woried about being excluded from groups. You can always show your Win/Loss ratio and explain. If the team wont take you when you have a good WLR but a low KDR, then they probably aren’t worth your time anyway.

lol “Rage Quit” stat tracking hope that doesn’t happen in Hot Join. Sometimes I can feel a new build not working me and i’d rather jump back to mists and retool then suffer through a whole match.

K/d should have been in here from the get , go. As it is in most competitive games.

Honestly, the K/D ratio stat isn’t out of place. Randoms GW2 PvP is pretty much already a deathmatch format, so it fits perfectly. Randoms is all about farming glory and being on top of the scoreboard. If you’re trying to actually win the match then you’re doing it wrong. In tourny PvP nobody cares about the stats because everyone knows they are totally meaningless when you are playing as a team and playing to win.

The biggest thing I miss in GW2 PvP is a sense of team. If I wanted to boost my scorecard stats I’d go play TF2 or some other game I played for a month and haven’t touched since. Stats cheapen the whole experience and ruin the sense of team. Delete them all IMO.

Get rid of it, it doesn’t add anything to the game, but will cause cultural problems.

/signed K/d ratio is a terrible idea

Current things larger detriments to team mentality that are much worse than a superficial stat in a team game:

Awarding rank points only when you are ON POINT for a cap, not for contributing to it. Would much rather have my team rushing to “tap” a point and running along than sitting on it uselessly till capped.

Awarding no rank points for defending points. Obviously a little more complex to solve, most sensical ones could be earning points slowly while sitting near capped points, or while engaged in combat near capped points.

Hooray for K/D! Bring it on, I love it!

I strongly agree that this should be left out!

KDR is always used in the wrong way and just invites to bad player and team behavior. It bad for the community and bad for the game. I don’t think it will have any positive effect at all.

Essentially I feel the same about the whole personal points system. Win or lose is what counts. I understand, sadly, that solo players want a metric to fight for in random games but I still believe you have a batter game without this kind of arbitrary metrics.

Especially in tPvP it doesn’t make sense, you win as an organized team, but the bunker gets half the credit and the treb guy always gets the most glory.

But that is another discussion all and all

I’d be surprised if we actually get a paid tournament / new PvP screen like that since it seems like just a mock-up (has incorrect ranks etc.). Hoping we do though.

I’d definitely love more stats just to keep things more interesting. And that includes K/D and even additional ones, per class or even build preferably, etc.

But they should be kept private since they ultimately not a good indicator of (just) skill. And if someone demands them from you, then at least you know who to avoid.

I remember when Battlefield: Bad Company 2 came out, there was no K/D ratio on the scoreboard then DICE patched it in and it changed how players played. Still a fun game, but annoying when people ignores the objective.

So yes, as a long time pvper and FPS gamer, I say K/D changes the mentality of players in a team, K/D encourages the “every man for himself”.

I posted again in this thread but it seems to have disappeared. I want more stats in my matches because I like to improve on my stats. For instance, when I first started playing TF2 I probably had around a 1.5 K:D and over the years I played it was able to bring that up to a 3.0. I would also like to see damage and healing done in a match. I am sick of not having access this this information.

It looks like just personal statistics about yourself that you can view but others can’t.

The only people who like K/D stats are people who have not played PvP/Competitive games enough to know how poisonous of a stat it is.
Quick comparison of Heroes of Newerth to DOTA2 will show you this, join random game in HoN with low KD → people harass you, DOTA2 meanwhile does not have this issue because THEY DONT REPORT IT.
Seriously just follow what Valve does, they are smarter than pretty much everyone.

displacedTitan.6897:

The only people who like K/D stats are people who have not played PvP/Competitive games enough to know how poisonous of a stat it is.
Quick comparison of Heroes of Newerth to DOTA2 will show you this, join random game in HoN with low KD -> people harass you, DOTA2 meanwhile does not have this issue because THEY DONT REPORT IT.
Seriously just follow what Valve does, they are smarter than pretty much everyone.

Yeah, you must be right. I didn’t play 1100 hours of TF2 since it released. I also didn’t play WoW for 7 years on and off (while they didn’t have a K:D in the base UI, you could track statistics like that with mods).

Slightly off topic:
That screen shot also shows the next rank after ‘rabbit’ as being ‘bear’; is there a new rank being added?

I agree, sort of. All i want is to see lifetime kills, i know ill have a good k/d because im a bow thief, but i just want to see my TOTAL KILLS.

KITTEN “team play” and “POINTZ”
thats for wow children

I come from NWN UO DAoC and WARHAMMER. nothing but a pvp background. the ONLY stat that ever matters is me killing you and me not dying. any zerg scrub can dive bomb in and kill someone and die… pop quickness charge adn hundred bladez… then die after getting your kill.

you can be jerome bettis and be bad for a very long time and compile a boat load of lifetime yards and lifetime touchdowns. but everyone knows Barry sanders was the best, he had the most yards per game and most yards per run. dont be jerome.. be barry.

KDR is the only thing that matters to REAL pvp’ers
emphasis on REAL.

I agree, K/D ratio is a bad stat. For some reason, people focus on this one stat as if it’s proof of skill when in reality it only shows how good a person is at avoiding objectives, not aiding the team, and running from combat when outnumbered.

K/D ratio belongs in FPS games (and even there, it completely kittenizes objective based gameplay), not MMO’s…

BishopX.6453:

KITTEN “team play” and “POINTZ”
thats for wow children

I come from NWN UO DAoC and WARHAMMER. nothing but a pvp background. the ONLY stat that ever matters is me killing you and me not dying. any zerg scrub can dive bomb in and kill someone and die… pop quickness charge adn hundred bladez… then die after getting your kill.

you can be jerome bettis and be bad for a very long time and compile a boat load of lifetime yards and lifetime touchdowns. but everyone knows Barry sanders was the best, he had the most yards per game and most yards per run. dont be jerome.. be barry.

KDR is the only thing that matters to REAL pvp’ers
emphasis on REAL.

This is BS imo. Real PvPer’s care about winning, K/D ratio matters to the Modern Warfare FPS crowd. For some reason, in every game I’ve ever played that tracked K/D ratio, it becomes the sole statistical focus and leads to selfish, anti-team play.

Guarding nodes and playing support roles are already undervalued in the glory system, add K/D ratio and watch these classes disappear from sPvP (which is a far more important bellwether for a PvP games health than tPvP is because far more people participate in it).

Are we all on the same page? Everyone realizes this is not visible to other players right?

you’ll still find elitist scrubs requesting “proof” of someones “good” K/D ratio to join tournament teams.