Guild Wars 2

LFM guardian /mesmer/thief for the tournaments ( in general chat on my server)are the only classes i see… sometimes its up to 3 thiefs or 3 mesmers per team….

Anet is going to do anything about that? The Reason people play only these 3 classes is simple and itskitten imbalance, these 3 classes are the alfa and omega od modern pvp.

In battle of kyhlo mesmer can insta repair the trebuchet, so basicly there is no point to destroy it, since mesmer teleports back with repair kit and keeps shooting.

im sure there are aspets of each that are OP, but there are also aspects of each (and other classes even moreso) that are UP

let the meta mature a bit will ya? ifyou do more then likely counters will arrive as players start to actually experiment and start thinking critically. if you keep kneejerk nerfing just cuz you see a lot of them or your spec doesnt do well against them the game will never achieve any semblance of balance. it will just alternate between OP and UP classes from here till eternity

spend more timing figuring out counters than making pointless rage posts about how you see one class more than another.

yawn

the worst balance that i never have seen on any pvp game since the god mode of BW on warhammer

doko.3276:

the worst balance that i never have seen on any pvp game since the god mode of BW on warhammer

the worst balancing in any pvp game, especially one that wants to be competitive, is to balance before the meta matures, anyone who wants a truly competitive game knows that

Wolfe.3097:

the worst balancing in any pvp game, especially one that wants to be competitive, is to balance before the meta matures, anyone who wants a truly competitive game knows that

Who is a better point defense and delayer than a Mesmer, while being able to dish out damage. I feel completely confident 1v1’ing and 1v’2ing until backup arrives. Engineer is the only class that comes to mind.

Who is a better mid group support than guardian. Tons of control with knockbacks. Group protection. Group stabiliy. Group retal. Full team heal.

Who is a better roamer than a thief that can teleport and run at 25% movespeed ontop of doing high burst damage. Then again, you’ll want 3 roamers, so bring an ele and another class.

Want the meta?

Ele/Engi/Thief/Mes/Guard

Tons of control
Tons of mobility
Tons of survivability
Tons of burst

yes that is the CURRENT meta (or at partially corrent perspective of it at least) a young and underdeveloped one where people are riding out the easy and not finding new niches.

you have to LET IT EVOLVE, nerfing/buffing because you percieve things, accurate or not, will just lead to a pendulum of OP and UP from here till the game dies, no balance will ever be achieved beacuse nobody will be given enough time to come up with more fleshed out comps.

honestly i think this is wows fault, they are horrible at game balance and just alternate between whats OP this month.

You know what I hate?

People who use the word meta all the time. Stop, just stop using that dumb word.

Just had to get that out there, carry on.

Same crap, different MMO. People gravitate towards the easy comps, when those are nerfed, they’ll gravitate to the new easy comps. Never ever will there ever, and I mean ever be real honest balance in MMO’s.

@dreadspectre-no, i wont, its a accurate and important term to get to know in any game that strives for pvp balance. if you dont like it, then plug your ears and whine.

@Thundar-true, there may be other comps that are better/stronger when executed correctly, but people wont find it unless you give them time to.

guys leave the game. daays have already found the meta. go on another game.
/sarcasm

i think at gw1 and i cry when i see these sentences.

want the best meta?
5players who can use properly at 100% their class.
ofc in premade you can add some more rules.

hf

Evolve into what?

What class can out 1v1 a Mesmer? What class can leave a node and teleport back to the point instantly?

Same for Thief/Guardian in their roles.

Your only room right now for deviation is with the Ele/Engineer.

Shukran if all classes were the same, then I’d agree. But they’re not.

Just take a look at Necro and compare it to a Mesmer. Do you think they’re even on the same tier?

your realy not getting it, classes fitting into niches isnt what im talking about. (roamer, capper, defending, etc are niches)

as for what class can out 1v1 a mesmer, i dont know THE META HASNT EVOLVED ENOUGH TO SEE YET, people are getting rolled and whining isntead of finding viable counters. anet is listening to this, it is the basis for bad game balance.

And why do you think you’re getting rolled? It’s because the Mesmer has the greatest tool sets out of any classes to successfuly 1v1.

1v1 is about control and damage avoidance. No one does that better than a Mesmer because the other classes don’t have the toolset to compete.

It’s not about player skill, because at the top everyone is the same. It’s about toolsets and decision making. It’s the unfortunate design problem you run into when making multiple different classes.

Wolfe.3097:

@dreadspectre-no, i wont, its a accurate and important term to get to know in any game that strives for pvp balance. if you dont like it, then plug your ears and whine.

@Thundar-true, there may be other comps that are better/stronger when executed correctly, but people wont find it unless you give them time to.

Across various games people who PvP have been waiting for balance, they move from game to game hoping to see it. So while we wait for the “meta game” to mature, people drop off playing. They’ve gotten tired of FOTM and all it entails.

While its important to let a game mature, its far more important to work in a realistic time frame to ensure people continue to play. Being annoyed any time you walk into sPvP due to some pretty substantial imbalances can and will cause more than a few people to just not take part in it, and that is bad for the game overall.

Edit: People may well find better comps that counter the current fotm, but if they are not easier to execute people will still and always take the path of least resistance. Now if that new comp preforms better than the old, with less player input or less of a skill curve, people will then gravitate towards that. That just re-enforces the fotm cycle, that’s something that should be avoided. But thats a matter of the community’s mentality.

Daays.4317:

And why do you think you’re getting rolled? It’s because the Mesmer has the greatest tool sets out of any classes to successfuly 1v1.

1v1 is about control and damage avoidance. No one does that better than a Mesmer because the other classes don’t have the toolset to compete.

It’s not about player skill, because at the top everyone is the same. It’s about toolsets and decision making. It’s the unfortunate design problem you run into when making multiple different classes.

again whether it ends up being true or not is irrelevant to the discussion, balance still needs to be approached more careful, people already crying for nerfs or buffs are jumping th efreaking gun by a month or 2

Thundar.3910:

Wolfe.3097:

@dreadspectre-no, i wont, its a accurate and important term to get to know in any game that strives for pvp balance. if you dont like it, then plug your ears and whine.

@Thundar-true, there may be other comps that are better/stronger when executed correctly, but people wont find it unless you give them time to.

Across various games people who PvP have been waiting for balance, they move from game to game hoping to see it. So while we wait for the “meta game” to mature, people drop off playing. They’ve gotten tired of FOTM and all it entails.

While its important to let a game mature, its far more important to work in a realistic time frame to ensure people continue to play. Being annoyed any time you walk into sPvP due to some pretty substantial imbalances can and will cause more than a few people to just not take part in it, and that is bad for the game overall.

Edit: People may well find better comps that counter the current fotm, but if they are not easier to execute people will still and always take the path of least resistance. Now if that new comp preforms better than the old, with less player input or less of a skill curve, people will then gravitate towards that. That just re-enforces the fotm cycle, that’s something that should be avoided. But thats a matter of the community’s mentality.

i agree to a point, community mentality at this point is full of spoiled, instant gratification wanting heroes who assume they know enough to make game changing decisions and because the masses agree it “must be right 90% of the time”

imo you create fotm classes by nerfing/buffing too soon before the weaknesses, strengths, and counters can be properly gauged, which takes more then a single month or 2

So you should wait around for 2 months until buffing the other classes?

Do you not read anything?
Mesmers/Thieves/Guardians are required because those classes have the greatest toolsets available to be successful.

All the other classes don’t. Whether it be movement abilities, defensive abilities, or control abilities, most classes lack them in one way or the other.

You’re in such a defensive situation. It’s quite clear you play one of those 3 classes only and can’t multi class. And now you’re afraid that one might get nerfed.

I play every class well. I want nothing more than this game to be about picking up good players and playing. And that can’t happen as long as Mesmers/Thieves/Guardians remain the best classes with the best toolsets available.

And just FYI, FOTM exists because those classes can achieve what the others can with minimal effort. There’s a reason why people cried about HS spam and not Ele’s. Because one requires lots of setup and skill, while the other presses “2”.

lol yes, me saying things may or may not be UP or OP, saying that i want balance, yes im clearly defending OP classes from getting nerfed.

just cuz you want instant gratification and reaction doesnt mean its the right choice.

people say mesmer/thief/guardians are required….that is player knowledge, player knowledge is what we say when we talk about the meta maturing, fact is player knowledge hasnt covered everything yet.

could those 3 classes be OP? certainly, entirely feasible. and if enough time has passed for people to thuroughly try various specs, counters and comps, then let the nerfing commence!!!

on the final phase of the beta condition damage was overpower and every pvp team was all full of condition builds,now we cant keep 25 bleeds as before,duration was nerfed and etc.
now we are seeing teams full of guardian/thief/mesmer so we need the nerfs to those

Daays.4317:

And FOTM exists because those classes can achieve what the others can with minimal effort.

that is what FOTM is, not why it exists, i already said why it exists

doko.3276:

on the final phase of the beta condition damage was overpower and every pvp team was all full of condition builds,now we cant keep 25 bleeds as before,duration was nerfed and etc.
now we are seeing teams full of guardian/thief/mesmer so we need the nerfs to those

i agree condition was over nerfed due to kneejerk reactions. did it need a nerf? ya, too bad, too bad

Because you can’t just look at that and go

“Man, why did we make an execute ability do as much damage as other abilities above 25% HP? Why did we give it a gap closer while others don’t have that? Why did we make it cost 50% less initiative compared to the other abilities?”

Nope. You need at least 2 years of game play to understand the intricacies of Heart Seeker spam.

Daays.4317:

Because you can’t just look at that and go

“Man, why did we make an execute ability do as much damage as other abilities above 25% HP? Why did we give it a gap closer while others don’t have that? Why did we make it cost 50% less initiative compared to the other abilities?”

Nope. You need at least 2 years of game play to understand the intricacies of Heart Seeker spam.

a loaded question that doesnt deserve an answer as its loaded on one side, try to enter from a unbiased view.

fact-heartseeker spam only worked on poor players

fact-heartseeker spam failed utterly in team play environments Tpvp and WvWvW

fact-heartseeker is the dagger mainand thieves ONLY damage skill that doesnt require stealth, there offhand options are cripple/stealth or interrupt/blinding zone, there MH moves are HS, and death blossom, which does so low damage when your power specced that its only worth the dodge, and wen your condition specced you dont use HS.

so what your saying is if a dagger mainhand thief doesnt use backstab they are playing wrong, which limits us to usuallys pending most are traits in stealth arts.

got it

Fact? Where are these facts? Post them please. Links. Guides. Videos explaining how to dodge a hasted HS spam thief.

If not, then they’re just your opinion. I’m sorry that in your opinion HS spam was perfectly fine. It was quite clear that the majority of this game felt otherwise.

Fact is that a HS spamming thief could do the same or higher damage than other classes by simply spamming the “2” ability, while other classes required much more setup.

It is clear you’re an upset Thief player by the way you’re defending the HS change.

And unbiased view? That’s laughable considering I multi-class all 8 classes.

HS spam was dumb.
Retaliation is dumb.
The amount of control abilties compared to stability is dumb.
Mesmers portal treb repair is dumb.

There are lots of dumb and broken things in the game that need tuning. You don’t need months and months and months of game play to understand this.

Wolfe.3097:

Thundar.3910:

Wolfe.3097:

@dreadspectre-no, i wont, its a accurate and important term to get to know in any game that strives for pvp balance. if you dont like it, then plug your ears and whine.

@Thundar-true, there may be other comps that are better/stronger when executed correctly, but people wont find it unless you give them time to.

Across various games people who PvP have been waiting for balance, they move from game to game hoping to see it. So while we wait for the “meta game” to mature, people drop off playing. They’ve gotten tired of FOTM and all it entails.

While its important to let a game mature, its far more important to work in a realistic time frame to ensure people continue to play. Being annoyed any time you walk into sPvP due to some pretty substantial imbalances can and will cause more than a few people to just not take part in it, and that is bad for the game overall.

Edit: People may well find better comps that counter the current fotm, but if they are not easier to execute people will still and always take the path of least resistance. Now if that new comp preforms better than the old, with less player input or less of a skill curve, people will then gravitate towards that. That just re-enforces the fotm cycle, that’s something that should be avoided. But thats a matter of the community’s mentality.

i agree to a point, community mentality at this point is full of spoiled, instant gratification wanting heroes who assume they know enough to make game changing decisions and because the masses agree it “must be right 90% of the time”

imo you create fotm classes by nerfing/buffing too soon before the weaknesses, strengths, and counters can be properly gauged, which takes more then a single month or 2

I disagree with most of what you’re saying here. Compared to every other MMO I’ve played the community here seems less likely to “cry” about whats OP or UP, but instead offer feedback based on what they have seen and experienced. Quite a few of them even seem to do so in a polite manner, and I can understand what they are trying to convey. Much to my suprise most PvPer’s here have a decent grasp of whats going on, and understand metrics.

There are a lot of people playing, the time it takes for Anet to gather its metrics, assess*(kittened assess?) player feedback and act on it, has, in my opinion been very good. I’m an average PvPer, and I understand that, but I’ve had the fun of playing with groups of folks who are very good. When I see them working as a team(In this game and others) and they are doing well, not due to being propped up by their current class but their willingness to work together, and in comes a group or comp with the current fotm makeup, and with what seems to me, at any rate, puts in far less effort with better results due to class makeup or comp. That is imbalanced. With that said I’m old and slow to react, but it also affords me,(while my character is laying face down no less) time to look around andkitten whats going on, what people are doing, you can get a pretty good idea of whats OP or UP while paying attention.

Jesus ppl cry about HS spam, the root of the problem is quickness.
I agree Guardian/mesmers/Thief have the best tools so far. The thing is mesmers even without moa are the gods of 1×1, and the treb tele thing is dumb but. They have the best avoidance set, they get invisible more times than a thief, have illusions phantasm dealing damage and stacking conditions, all he need to do to kill is avoind, they dont need fight just poop phantasm, and go invi or some kitten. If you stop to kill phantasms he eat yourkitten

Guardians jesus i really dont want talk about. SO much control, damage, survivability.

It isn’t about these classes being OP and needing to find counters, the problem is that these 3 classes OUTPERFORM any other class in ANY role. You want to be DPS? Play thief, nothing will match your DPS and ease of dealing DPS. You want to be TANKY/DEFENSIVE? Guardian is the best option. You want the best all around DPS/Utility/Defense? Play mesmer. Confusion/Pets/Stealth/Teleports/Group Haste/1200 range attacks…

People aren’t mad they lost to these classes, or that we can’t beat them. That isn’t the case, we win some we lose some. It is however COMPLETELY OBVIOUS and BLATANT that they are OUTPERFORMING any and ALL of their counterparts.

Rift had the same problem with rogues being able to blink while carrying flags, all they did was make it so once you blink while carrying the flag you dropped it. If you want to take it one step further you could make it so carrying a kit reduces your movement speed and reduces the effectiveness of swiftness.

There, a simple fix that doesn’t involve directly nerfing an ability.

As for roaming/damage/utility that’s a much wider topic that would require people to have their facts/numbers as opposed to anecdote and emotional arguments.

stop saying wait for the meta to develop. There is no meta to develop when you play vs pugs in 99% of tpvp matches. So seriously stop using that as some kind of excuse. Was running some rag tag “pickup” premade today and won every tournament except one vs an elite premade running, you guessed it: Ele/Engi/Thief/Mes/Guard

I’d say dont go calling for nerfs on the most commonly used classes because this simply gets you labelled as a whiner. If you feel that those 3 classes simply outmatch everything else, ask for changes to other professions to bring them up to speed.

Do it in a constructive way that might actually be noticed and discussed beyond what we see here.

For example the necro is so often brought up in comparison, why not create a post where you state you are a necro, post your build and state what you want to achieve with this build in your structured matches. Explain how it falls short and how you think it could be improved.

I dont know much about nerco, but suppose you wanted to go an area control/sustain necro using those ground glyph things. Why not post your build, say what you want to achieve and your current results (keeping the cry levels down), then suggest possible ways in which they could be improved to allow for competition against other top area controlling classes.

This way you might actually get responses on how your build might be tweaked, or even noticed by someone that is in a position to make a change instead of being thrown in the “Wow, it’s this thread again” pile.

Just my 2c.

At the very least put pressure on ANet to fix CLASS BUGS first before they start with balance changes. Current bugs are making potential builds useless and UP, which means that a proper build to match the popular Mesmer build may exist but is currently broken thanks to bugs (GW isn’t like WoW where it’s class vs class, it’s actually focused on build vs build).

In short, bugs first, then let people experiment with different builds and find unique comps (i.e. mature meta), THEN and ONLY then should they look at balance.

And this is coming from a Necro. A useless one, but a Necro nonetheless…

It’s like you guys have never played a pvp based game before (besides WoW you gear whoring nerds)

Take a look at HoN, LoL, DoTa 2 they are sole PvP games. Every few months the meta changes, due to what heroes have been changed, and the balance of the game as a whole. The way to win in these games is to find a counter to the meta, which in turn creates a new meta or join the other guys and use the same meta. meta meta meta, learn that word it’ll make life easier.

Granted this game is VERY new so the meta at the moment is choose the easiest class to play and play it well. Guarantee next trend will be stacking condition damage to mitigate those guardian teams

@Scribbles, strawman argument, if that, you said my credibility went out the window yet you gave no explanation as to why, where when i refused to debate a question i at least gave a reason.

either prove me wrong, concede, or ignorantly hold on to your incorrect wants and desires

Sprawl.3891:

stop saying wait for the meta to develop. There is no meta to develop when you play vs pugs in 99% of tpvp matches. So seriously stop using that as some kind of excuse. Was running some rag tag “pickup” premade today and won every tournament except one vs an elite premade running, you guessed it: Ele/Engi/Thief/Mes/Guard

if thats the case then any balancing at all is a bad idea since you have no accurate information to base it off of (skilled players)

Wolfe.3097:

Please let me have my OP classes for a month or so more? I’m sure people will realize how to counter us after that time, and my rank/glory count will flourish in the meantime.
No, I won’t answer any logical questions, I’ll just post meaningless noise to make it seem like my favorite class isn’t so OP. Hey, we only have one attack! We’re actually UP! Never mind the fact that that attack is Heartseeker, or the fact it’s really ridiculously strong DPS/gap closer/finisher, or the fact that this game has weapon swap for a reason.
kitten noobs, l2p, let the meta evolve, and if you think something is OP, play it to see how to beat it or just exploit it for free rank and glory.

I disagree.