Guild Wars 2

You might want to edit the thread title to not be all caps, will prob get moderated, I would rather see this thread get some attention than get locked.

Good MMR people have a harder time advancing the new league system than bad players… ludicrous

plus you can’t just put solo players up against 5 man premades #soloque plz

League system is trash. No soloq is a utter trash. “Balance” where everyone and their mom use passive to knock you over, immobilize all day long and so on is trash. This game takes no skill anymore, its all about builds now. Everything is just about spamming. Hope to see better game soon as AN simply failed leagues and the “ls3” xpac as a whole

I was under the impression from when leagues was announced before HoT, that MMR wouldn’t be a factor in Leagues - that the League system would work independently of MMR, allowing your league position to act as the match making value, thereby making the rating and leaderboards actually, for once, somewhat accurate.

It is disappointing to be hearing otherwise.

“We strongly believe that regular balance updates are one of the key pillars of building a successful competitive game. As such, prior to each season, there will be a balance update. League play will generally begin about two weeks after a balance update to ensure that the metagame has stabilized in an appropriate manner. Balance will be closely monitored throughout the season with the goal of having solid balance going into the postseason tournaments.”

I saw this thread, (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA/first#post5818338), and there’s something odd about it. I made a thread about it, and I’ll just repost my question again here. It seems Helseth and I have the same hunch, that premades are being “boosted” by having one or two members at very low MMR so they won’t face higher MMR teams or full premades like them.

How do you calculate the odds of winning between a random team (or with a duo queue) against a full premade (or with a double duo or duo-trio queue)? If you are averaging, then two low MMR team mates will pull the overall MMR of the team, making the full premade team face against a random team of lower MMR (thus they have some advantage). So two players will make f2p accounts and boost the other three, and then the three will do the same for the other two.

But did he lostered against xerrex? That’s the question here !

The solution was to PLACE players in corresponidng league based upon existing number of games paleyd/win ratio and then let them fall or gain,you simply cant put every1 in same basket,cause you either boost newbie or strangle veterans.
That is geting abused by guilds this time is no wonder at all,it was abused before by f2p accounts and will be again ….

Hate to admit it but Helseth is right especially the last part.

I for one having a semi high MMR, it sucks to be facing premade teams of High Caliber when i solo q.

You can argue that I should get a team, read again: semi high MMR. I will need atleast a team of that MMR to be able to put up a fight or even win.

Otherwise it’s pointless.

So the team qualifiying to attempt to replace a team in Pro League will probably consist of pips farmer? Amazing.

He’s absolutely right. Hopefully Anet listens and fixes these problems next season.

AirWick.1769:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xg5D2gJAsU

When the best EU player considers the new ranking system trash tier, you better believe there is something very wrong with it. Just saying…

Hope that highlight gets the exposure it deserves, so this gamemode can finally move foward, instead of backwards. Pay attention ANet! You’r doing it wrong!

Alekt.5803:

So the team qualifiying to attempt to replace a team in Pro League will probably consist of pips farmer? Amazing.

Yep. One of the EU teams who are TOP 3 at the moment were farming solo players throughout the night.

I’ll copy my reply from reddit. With some editing for forum rules.

“Low mmr players that are getting repeated wins are likely under ranked. This is most often because they have a lower sample size of matches. They should rapidly converge to an mmr that gives a 50% win rate. What you’re complaining about is that you already have a large pool of match results so you’re sorted into balanced matches. You would rather be under rated so you have an easy farm. The goal of mmr is to create balanced and interesting matches. Not to let you easily farm rank. For lower mmr players, who are at their appropriate mmr, the difficulty as experienced by the player will be the same. It might be easier for you, but that’s why your mmr is higher… lower players have no long term advantage.

Edit: Typo and clarification on long term advantage. Any benefit low mmr players see will be short term and fall off after they can start to drop rank abd their mmr converges to the point of approximately 50% win rate."

What I don’t understand is that ANET are obviously trying to force premades but don’t seem to realise that GW2 is a CASUAL game, the majority of people don’t want to . They won’t premade, they will just stop playing the game (or sPvP) altogether.

Video doesn’t load keep getting this video is unavailable

Helseth is blunt af and I prefer that over fake bs.

There are 2 parts we need to consider:

1. Who in their right mind thought pugs vs organized team is competitive?

So yeah, if you queue solo/duo, throw your competitive spirit out the window coz the odds are highly against you. Sure you can still play and pretend you enjoy it but just throw any competitive drive out because the playing field isn’t level.

2. Once your MMR drops way way down from getting farmed, as a soloQer, you face another risk. This time, it’s getting teamed up with a 3man+ queue of bads… real bads… as in “I belong to a pve guild but wanna check out this cool new feature called leagues and I love skins” kinda bads.

Those are the absolute very worst. I’d honestly rather be teamed up with all pugs and go against a premade THAN be teamed up in a pve guild team and go against pvp pugs.

What I’m trying to say is – I agree w/ Helseth

Cheers!!!

Pimsley.3681:

2. Once your MMR drops way way down from getting farmed, as a soloQer, you face another risk. This time, it’s getting teamed up with a 3man+ queue of bads… real bads… as in “I belong to a pve guild but wanna check out this cool new feature called leagues and I love skins” kinda bads.

Those are the absolute very worst. I’d honestly rather be teamed up with all pugs and go against a premade THAN be teamed up in a pve guild team and go against pvp pugs.

^ This

Helseth lost 2 pips for losing to FULL ORNG PREMADE as 2+1+1+1…

ANET? Really?

Vapour.7348:

Pimsley.3681:

2. Once your MMR drops way way down from getting farmed, as a soloQer, you face another risk. This time, it’s getting teamed up with a 3man+ queue of bads… real bads… as in “I belong to a pve guild but wanna check out this cool new feature called leagues and I love skins” kinda bads.

Those are the absolute very worst. I’d honestly rather be teamed up with all pugs and go against a premade THAN be teamed up in a pve guild team and go against pvp pugs.

^ This

Let’s stop the game ! :/ I feel like Anet doesn’t deserve the little PvP community they have…

I saw really little changes since 3 years… Just the HoT, for which we must pay, gave something little new for the PvP, and yet it’s not worth the 45€.

I find myself in a situation like in this video. I love to play with a friend with whom I win most of the games, but we both don’t want to invest into creating a team or finding one and I now I have more free time than him… So I’d like to play to have fun but competitive enough. And this league system doesn’t look promising enough atm…

He is angry because just picked it up and took a bad team perhaps? The alloy system is not bad, the problem is that there are bad players and some casual calls that are also bad, but I thought fantastic system idea, should fall division also only the best players rise because stand not play with my ranger and view map 3 players fighting one of the opposing team, stop complaining the whole game, it is hard to complain, just want things the easy way? Is in PVE then do not care if that player is top 3, I think some GW2 players is more to play Hello Kitty than PVP when I complaint at all

Collero.7963:

Helseth lost 2 pips for losing to FULL ORNG PREMADE as 2+1+1+1…

ANET? Really?

And it just happened again. Twice in a row, duo queue vs full oRNG. Lost another pip.

Does anet even recognize that they are offending a LOT of their loyal, long term core pvp user base?

Pimsley.3681:

Does anet even recognize that they are offending a LOT of their loyal, long term core pvp user base?

How? By giving you balanced and engaging matches rather than a pug farm?

Just got put against Abjured in a full random group (no premade whatsoever). Im sure you can all imagine how that ended for everyone involved.

It sucks that he’s being handicapped so heavily in some games. However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?

rennlc.7346:

However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?

Of course he could farm pug’s with his team, but what’s the point? Where is the fun in that?

Sometimes people just want to solo queue or duo queue, believe it or not.

rennlc.7346:

It sucks that he’s being handicapped so heavily in some games. However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?

Because that was totally the point of the video, about how to farm pips, and not about how the infrastructure remains terrible in GW2’s PvPz

It’s such fiasco… I would love to see Anet kicking out some employes, seriously.

Kraljevo.2801:

rennlc.7346:

However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?

Of course he could farm pug’s with his team, but what’s the point? Where is the fun in that?

Sometimes people just want to solo queue or duo queue, believe it or not.

I think he actually wanted to show that getting high rank is possible while Qing alone or/and playing unviable classes. He proved the opposite though.

The joke is, i and many other players posted exactly same concerns (premades vs solo, farming ranks with low mmr person on team, high mmr affecting progress etc.) when leagues were first announced. All of the feedback got ignored. Things are happening EXACTLY like they were predicted (and btw we didn’t reach the worst of it yet). EXACTLY same things happend in many other games (wow, league etc.). Blizzard for example had to revamp whole mmr/ranking system countless times to fix flaws/prevent abuse. You would think Anet would do A BIT of research and learn from other companies mistakes (since player feedback on this matter is useless apparently).

Currently the league system looks broken.

From my POV it looks like, that everyone with a 50% win rate will end up on the top. No matter if he plays with at a low or a high mmr.

There SHOULD be a difference in Pips gained and lost depending on your current MMR and current league position (= how league system works in league of legends).

Cynz.9437:

You would think Anet would do A BIT of research and learn from other companies mistakes (since player feedback on this matter is useless apparently).

Perhaps if they rewarded players who did their research for them with a discount on the Black Lion Trading post, so that they could monetize the research, then it might be done…

This is why helseth is so awesome. He’s able to identify the problem and call it out exactly how it should be. I said before and I’ll say it again, the pvp in this game is an unfixable mess of trash. It should not be taken seriously other than to get in on Anet’s $400,000 mistake.

Rap Tiger.1257:

He is angry because just picked it up and took a bad team perhaps? The alloy system is not bad, the problem is that there are bad players and some casual calls that are also bad, but I thought fantastic system idea, should fall division also only the best players rise because stand not play with my ranger and view map 3 players fighting one of the opposing team, stop complaining the whole game, it is hard to complain, just want things the easy way? Is in PVE then do not care if that player is top 3, I think some GW2 players is more to play Hello Kitty than PVP when I complaint at all

?

Pimsley.3681:

Rap Tiger.1257:

He is angry because just picked it up and took a bad team perhaps? The alloy system is not bad, the problem is that there are bad players and some casual calls that are also bad, but I thought fantastic system idea, should fall division also only the best players rise because stand not play with my ranger and view map 3 players fighting one of the opposing team, stop complaining the whole game, it is hard to complain, just want things the easy way? Is in PVE then do not care if that player is top 3, I think some GW2 players is more to play Hello Kitty than PVP when I complaint at all

?

But the real question is, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

“But the real question is, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?”

Could you say this in another way? What did you mean?

Reikou.7068:

rennlc.7346:

It sucks that he’s being handicapped so heavily in some games. However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?

Because that was totally the point of the video, about how to farm pips, and not about how the infrastructure remains terrible in GW2’s PvPz

He he had several points, such as long queue times for high MMR players, match-making over-valuing win streaks, and playing as a more random composition against organized premades using bunkers. However, the issue he emphasized and repeated the most was how the current system basically makes it so he will gain pips more slowly than less experienced players who are queuing solo/duo and those who queue in a 4-man premade.

So yes, if there was a single point to the video which stands out more than the rest, it’s that one. I agree this is currently sub-optimal for solo/duo queuing with a high MMR. However, I also understand there’s more to games than the fairness of digital rewards for winning, such as using a game as a tool for personal growth, learning new skills that apply even beyond gaming, increasing the response time of our minds, etc. Perhaps this is an opportunity for Helseth and the rest of us to shelve melodrama and learn that as well.

Odd how both his reddit post and video have been deleted. I wonder if its on his own accord or by pressure via arena net. Prob the latter.

So if I understand this right? It’s totally wrong for a high teir player to lose pips vs full premades but it’s ok for the casual solo people?

Eval.2371:

Odd how both his reddit post and video have been deleted. I wonder if its on his own accord or by pressure via arena net. Prob the latter.

He’s a pro player with sponsors. His words have weight to them that could cost the game viewers and in effect defund/derail future ESL efforts. For him to say something negative about the game publicly is not political correct and since it is biting the hand that feeds I can sort of see ArenaNet’s stance if in fact they did contact him.

Regardless he did say it and if he said it I’m sure many other ESL Pro players feel exactly the same way. ArenaNet should not hide their failure with leagues they should own it, apologize for the mishandling of queues and fix it.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

So if I understand this right? It’s totally wrong for a high teir player to lose pips vs full premades but it’s ok for the casual solo people?

The MMR isn’t reset when doing rankeds. So as he’s a high tier player, he gets too long Q time, slowing his progression, increasing the effort he has to make to climb in the league while a low MMR player has slow Q-ing time and with a 50% win rate the low MMR player will climb anyway; so in the result he could be stuck in the elo hell (if it was LoL, and it’s like facing full team while you solo/duoQ…). And it’s frustrating because he doesn’t belong in this elo as he’s got a lot of win strike (21-4) and his winrate is so high that he should have climbed and skipped divisions/tiers so he can go easily where he’d normally belong.
But in this league system of GW2, there’s no skip, and you don’t win more points if you win a lot in a row. => they kittened up => disappointment for everyone.

Well who would have thought this new pvp system (which is like the fourth we get?) wasn’t thought through to the end? Almost everyone because that’s what we’ve come to expect from Arenanet, unfinished, bugged, content.

HoT is the worst thing to happen to this game as ive said many times

balance flew off the roof and revenants are pure bullkitten, gw2 was so much better just before hot .. and now these league bullkittens where soloq meets 5man esl premade teams who play condi revenants or bunker mesmers because why the kitten not ? they have no skill or balls or shame anyway so better abuse what anets let em abuse

make ranked only soloq or gtfo

Soa Cirri.6012:

Pimsley.3681:

Rap Tiger.1257:

He is angry because just picked it up and took a bad team perhaps? The alloy system is not bad, the problem is that there are bad players and some casual calls that are also bad, but I thought fantastic system idea, should fall division also only the best players rise because stand not play with my ranger and view map 3 players fighting one of the opposing team, stop complaining the whole game, it is hard to complain, just want things the easy way? Is in PVE then do not care if that player is top 3, I think some GW2 players is more to play Hello Kitty than PVP when I complaint at all

?

But the real question is, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I see and on the other hand true direction followed by mechanics is preferred by many otherwise pvp indoors

Soa Cirri.6012:

Pimsley.3681:

Rap Tiger.1257:

He is angry because just picked it up and took a bad team perhaps? The alloy system is not bad, the problem is that there are bad players and some casual calls that are also bad, but I thought fantastic system idea, should fall division also only the best players rise because stand not play with my ranger and view map 3 players fighting one of the opposing team, stop complaining the whole game, it is hard to complain, just want things the easy way? Is in PVE then do not care if that player is top 3, I think some GW2 players is more to play Hello Kitty than PVP when I complaint at all

?

But the real question is, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

It’s just obvious You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense.

rennlc.7346:

It sucks that he’s being handicapped so heavily in some games. However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?

This sounds a bit funny when talking about Helseth but maybe because he doesn’t want to resort to farming.

Eval.2371:

Odd how both his reddit post and video have been deleted. I wonder if its on his own accord or by pressure via arena net. Prob the latter.

Wow I read the reddit thread but didn’t watch the video yet, that sucks. If anet had anything to do with it it reflects incredibly poorly on them.

Helseth just lost 2 pips for winning a game on his stream (because they had a player DC and won 4v5). LOL.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Helseth just lost 2 pips for winning a game on his stream (because they had a player DC and won 4v5). LOL.

I can confirm this. LOL.

ANET – You going to ignore this too?

I start to wonder how many will actually manage to get up to legendary..most likely we will be able to count them on fingers. SoloQ peeps will never reach it in current state.