Guild Wars 2

trytonianYeti.4389:

The video made me realize about something off topic – NA doesn’t have an admired pvp personality like EU does with Helseth.

Folks with no sense of humor may dislike him but that guy is one charming mofo.

What about Ostrich Eggs?

trytonianYeti.4389:

The video made me realize about something off topic – NA doesn’t have an admired pvp personality like EU does with Helseth.

Folks with no sense of humor may dislike him but that guy is one charming mofo.

I was under the impression that members of the Abjured were admired and liked by the NA community, especially Toker and Phantaram. They sound like nice lads.

morrolan.9608:

trytonianYeti.4389:

The video made me realize about something off topic – NA doesn’t have an admired pvp personality like EU does with Helseth.

Folks with no sense of humor may dislike him but that guy is one charming mofo.

What about Ostrich Eggs?

He used to be really good. IDK. Maybe getting kicked from the Abjured messed him up. I thought he was great on engie, I’d even go as far as say he was the best engie back then. Now he’s an average necro.

Helseth is amazing on Mesmer and continue playing Mesmer no matter what the meta is.

trytonianYeti.4389:

morrolan.9608:

trytonianYeti.4389:

The video made me realize about something off topic – NA doesn’t have an admired pvp personality like EU does with Helseth.

Folks with no sense of humor may dislike him but that guy is one charming mofo.

What about Ostrich Eggs?

He used to be really good. IDK. Maybe getting kicked from the Abjured messed him up. I thought he was great on engie, I’d even go as far as say he was the best engie back then. Now he’s an average necro.

But you were talking about personality. However as an engi player myself I wish he’d go back to it, even on his stream yesterday he was on reaper.

morrolan.9608:

trytonianYeti.4389:

morrolan.9608:

trytonianYeti.4389:

The video made me realize about something off topic – NA doesn’t have an admired pvp personality like EU does with Helseth.

Folks with no sense of humor may dislike him but that guy is one charming mofo.

What about Ostrich Eggs?

He used to be really good. IDK. Maybe getting kicked from the Abjured messed him up. I thought he was great on engie, I’d even go as far as say he was the best engie back then. Now he’s an average necro.

But you were talking about personality. However as an engi player myself I wish he’d go back to it, even on his stream yesterday he was on reaper.

Personality wise? I’d say sure, OE can be quite chatty in-game and on the matches I’ve fought along side with him. But he doesn’t scream. I chuckle when I hear Helseth scream.

Working as intended

As a soloQer, I just got my 15 wins done so I’m on level 2 of leagues.

Now I’m going back to unranked. There’s no way I’m going to make it to level 3 anyway. I probably wouldn’t make it to the next tier anytime soon.

Unranked is the best!

This new league system is disgusting.

Even the leaderboards that awarded grind above win ratio were better than this.

First off, it doesn’t matter if you lose 400-500 or 0-500 or you were facing a full prematched team. You lose 1 pipe for sure.

Then this system only allows you to progress if you have a winning streak. That’s it, if you alternativelly win/lose games, you won’t advance further after amber league resulting in a frustating experience.

Matchups are made only according to MMR, so actual league rank is meaningless. If you want to progress through ranks, the best method is to lose several games on purposes so you are matched against unskilled opponents and then have easy wins.

And Everything is mixed, solo and premade teams, conquest and fortress, it doesnt matter…

Above that, the current meta hasn’t been adjusted prior the start of the league season resulting in a PvP environtment overpopulated by Dragonhunter trappers, chronomancer tanks, almost invunerable elementalists, Shiro-Glint revenants (or should I say heralds?) and immortal druids.

And finally, if you are playing solo, your chances to have some toxic player in your team are really high since Anet doesnt do a thing to prevent this kind of people ruining PvP.

Worst of all, is that this systems is going to stay for a long time since its main problem comes from design and hence, correcting it would result in another revamp.

Teutos.8620:

Guys, it seems a lot of you still have fundamental problems to understand how the match making and based on that, the league system is currently working.

Tobias.8632:

My overall winrate is around 60%

Let’s get back to some basics. For better understanding, let’s borrow some mmr-numbers from wow since our mmr-numbers are hidden.

After each individual match you play, the system will adjust your mmr-number. Let’s say you are an ok-ish player so the system will rank you with the mmr-number “1500”. A good player will have 2000 and a top esl player 2300.

In each individual match the system will let you 1500-player fight with other 1500-players and against other 1500-players. If the system works correct and everyone of the player has really the skill of 1500, your win chance is 50%.

You goal is to improve yourself. “I am not a 1500 player, I am a 1550 player!” If that is correct, you will win the match, and the system will further rank you at 1550. Everytime you are proving that the system ranked you too low, you are increasing your win rate.

NOW you are facing 1550 opponents. If that is true, you will 50% of every match you play at the 1550 level.

This is where the “50%-win-rate-effect” comes from. The system is trying to find suitable opponents for you. It takes some time till the system find the right spot for you, or maybe you are improving every time (while your opponents do not) that you have a win rate over 50% for that time till the system manages to find suitable matches for you.

Now to your current situation: Pre Hot you managed to play at skill level 1750, therefore the system placed you against 1750 opponents. Seems your skill level is far lower OR the level of the opponents is far higher, than the system has placed them. => your win rate is not 50% till it finds suitable opponents for you. Then you will go back to about 50%.

BTT: As long as the amount of pips you gain, is not effected by your mmr, the system is broken.
You are fighting against opponents of about your own mmr. Your current position in the league system is completely irrelevant. You will always fight for a pip.
A high mmr player will face high mmr opponents, he still fights for the same pip as an low mmr player facing a low mmr opponent.

Wrong, i can not find a where this is correctly explained even before HOt release and confirmed by dev(seams it got deleted),but please do the research before correcting and missinforming players

It goes something like if players rank 1 to 10 are queing at same time system wil always pair lowest ranked with highest ranked playe to equall wining chaces of the team
something like
10 -8-6-5-1
vs
8-8-7-6-2

This was confirmed by dev, later it was called bug, but it still works this way.

This forced 50win rate will get 90% of solo quers stuck in league 3-4 going back an forth since there you start losing pips and tiers as well.

So idealy it would work that players 8-10 never get mixed with lover tier players5-7,but since player base is low they mix all,and this is simply wrong as explained before many many times
This is where leagues should have fixed this, but since all start from same basket you have same problem all over again.
If they reset legues after 26/1/16 you will have same situation again.

P.S
found a link

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/High-MMR-is-punished-for-solo-que/page/3#post5543352

I’m Sapphire Div3 and I’m pretty much stuck now if I don’t get very lucky….. out of 10 games today, until now I q’d 4-5 games against full premade of top-players that added one random amber-noob to tank down their overall MMR – and I loose pips against that when we obviously get trashed…

This is broken in so many ways it’s ridiculous.

I don’t think “League is Trash”, it’s just pathetic to see “top” players community and/or ESL players group together to farm in the middle of the night lol.

Bring back soloQ please, PvP need fair games.

PowerBottom.5796:

I q’d 4-5 games against full premade of top-players that added one random amber-noob to tank down their overall MMR – and I loose pips against that when we obviously get trashed…

I think we met same premade… shame on them.

At some point pro-teams will rank up and will have no1 to play with so they will forcebly diminsh their mmr or just get qued with lover tier teams .
Also this :
Like imagine Chicago Bulls playing vs “my highschool team” or at some point adding me in Finals to play for Bulls team vs Rockets
Its totaly insane, even if i have Jordan in my team i will make bulls lose or in another scenario my HST will get trashed by pro players.

Teams who abuse this (4premade +1pug) will get punished eventually,since at one point that one bad player will drag them down,and this one player who gets carried by good team will eventualy drag down some other pug by playing where he does not belong.
This abusive behavior proves that mmr “bug” was not fixed

This is not every1 for them self its team game, If they make new mode " there can be only one " or some other hunger game mode kill all around you, this mmr system would make sense.

Leohart.4610:

Who’s this Lord Helseth?

Just a streamer…

deda.8302:

Wrong, i can not find a where this is correctly explained even before HOt release and confirmed by dev(seams it got deleted),but please do the research before correcting and missinforming players

Unfortunately, you did not understand how the system is working.

You just remembered a statement without understanding what it means.

It goes something like if players rank 1 to 10 are queing at same time system

First off, the term “rank” could easily be misunderstood.
The system tries to place ten players with a skill as equally as possible into the same game. But since not every has the 100% same rating (e.g. on has 1550, the next 1551, the next 1560, the next 1552) the have to spread those players as equally as possible over the two teams.

wil always pair lowest ranked with highest ranked playe to equall wining chaces of the team
something like
10 -8-6-5-1
vs
8-8-7-6-2

This was confirmed by dev, later it was called bug, but it still works this way.

That’s the way they are distributing those 10 almost equally skilled players through the two teams.

Back to my statement:
If everyone has the correct mmr, the win chance is 50%. Both teams are equally strong, both teams might win.

BUT your own goal is, that each game you prove, that the system underestimated you. That the teams are not equally skilled and that therefore your win chance is >50%.

Back to your example:
The ten players with the most equal mmr currently queueing are:
Player A: 1510
Player B: 1508
Player C: 1507
Player D : 1508
Player E: 1506
Player F: 1501
Player G: 1505
Player H: 1505
Player I: 1502
Player J: 1508

Not the system is ranking each player:
#1: Player F: 1501

1. Player I: 1502
2. Player G: 1505
3. Player H: 1505
4. Player E: 1506
5. Player C: 1507
6. Player B: 1508
7. Player D : 1508
8. Player J: 1508
9. Player A: 1510

Now the system is distributing those player into the two teams, as equally as possible. That could look like the example you have posted.

10 -8-6-5-1 vs 8-8-7-5-2

In the end every teams has an average mmr of 1506. Both teams are as equal as possible (in the real world one team might end up with an advantage, but the system tries to make it as small as possible).

Again, back to my statement:
E.g. you are player D with a 1508 rating.
The system though (based on your past performance) your rating is 1508.
If the system has correctly calculated your ranking and that of every other player participating in every match you are playing AND everyone is always playing at their best, you will as an effect end up with a 50% win rate.

But that is only true for the games you play while everyone is performing at their rating.

For every single game you prove, that your rating need to be adjusted, your win rate will not be 50%.

E.g. Some people are struggling adjusting to HoT. They will loose more games till the mmr system had adjusted their rating enough, till you find suitable players again. (From that point on, you will land again at a 50% win rate).

deda.8302:

Like imagine Chicago Bulls playing vs “my highschool team” or at some point adding me in Finals to play for Bulls team vs Rockets

They don’t play vs Rockets or top teams, they just play vs other “highschool teams” so they can farm with a low mmr player.

Did you check the link i posted,it doesnt seam so,pls read it…

If i follow your logic system is creating fair game but only for an mid tier players of average rating of every team which is 1506(lets take your example)
This is twisted since only player "rank’ 1505.1506.1507 are wher they should be others are not…
These others are downgraded or eleveted to a position where they do not belong and hence forced in to 50% win .
The margins of system are very large and not as small as posible after all the observations form different players ,and now even pro players are confirming this fact.
It is more like having players (your ranking)
1100.1200.1300.1900.2100 vs 1400.1500.1660.1800.2000.
and geting an average of 1500

I think i understood statment and in betwean the lines of it,but i will not discuss this any more it was said before so just search previous posts on it and read …

deda.8302:

Did you check the link i posted,it doesnt seam so,pls read it…

Yes, I read the link. How the MMR system is working is nothing new. WoW, lol, dota, cs, titanfall, you name it, they are all using a MMR system to find suitable teammates or opponents for you. Some of those systems are showing you your rating, but most are hiding it behind a league system.

There are multiple sources where you can check out how the mmr works in their system. Heck, if you don’t want to read, there are multiple videos explaining how it is working.

If you are interested in more math, check out glicko2, the two player chess rating system on which gw2 is based on.

If i follow your logic system is creating fair game but only for an mid tier

The job of the match making system is only to find suitable opponents for you. Building on that, the reward system (in our case our new league system) SHOULD take into account what happens if there is a huge rating difference between those two teams. Let’s talk about that a bit later.

players of average rating of every team which is 1506(lets take your example)

As long as the margin between the ratings is small enough, it does not make a difference for the 1506 player if he is above the average or below. He just needs to perform at his own rating. The player with the 1510 rating has to perform a little bit better than he has to, and the 1501 player has to perform a little bit weaker.

In an objective POV, this single match is a perfectly fair match. Those are the matches you want to happen in your system.

It is also fair for every player, because of the rating changing AFTER the game happend.
Let’s say the first team won vs the team with the average rating of 1506.
Player A with the 1510 rating gets +2 rating,
Player D with the 1508 rating gets +3 rating.
Player F with the 1501 rating gets +8 rating.

If they would have lost vs a team with the average rating of 1506:
Player A with the 1510 rating gets -8 rating,
Player D with the 1508 rating gets -6 rating.
Player F with the 1501 rating gets -1 rating.

The rating is constantly adjusting. In a single match, it might look bad for player A who does not have a lot to win, but much to loose, but that’s just for one match. In the next match he might be the one with the chance to gain more than he looses.

The margins of system are very large and not as small as possible

I reported a few matches to Justing ODell back in January.

Date RatingType TeamParty EnemyParty Prediction Result TeamScore EnemyScore Rating Diff Rank Diff
2015-01-10 21:00:50.000 Unranked 122 1211 46.8800 Victory 502 380 -24.0 5.0
2015-01-10 21:14:46.000 Unranked 1121 5 25.7800 Defeat 196 500 -94.0 -1.0
2015-01-10 21:30:21.000 Unranked 1121 1121 45.1600 Victory 501 395 -44.0 14.0

The second match with the “94” rating difference was the match I felt that there was something wrong.

And here is another one I reported. It has a huge rating difference (1003). After reporting that match, Justin found a “pretty critical flaw in the matchmaking logic” which got instantly hotfixed the next day.

2015-01-12 20:08:13.000 Ranked 1121 11111 87.0300 Victory 501 95 1003.0 18.0

=> the system is trying to reduce the rating difference as much as possible.

@teuteos
I see that you are very good at ignoring what i want to say and pick and quote irrelevant or just part of the whole.
Keep defending what is obviously broken,gg to you.
(you obviously describe system as it should be not as it is, or no would be complaining about )

I do agree that this example:

“It is also fair for every player, because of the rating changing AFTER the game happend.
Let’s say the first team won vs the team with the average rating of 1506.
Player A with the 1510 rating gets +2 rating,
Player D with the 1508 rating gets +3 rating.
Player F with the 1501 rating gets +8 rating.
If they would have lost vs a team with the average rating of 1506:
Player A with the 1510 rating gets -8 rating,
Player D with the 1508 rating gets -6 rating.
Player F with the 1501 rating gets -1 rating.”

is fair ,but it is not working as you described

-“The rating is constantly adjusting”.
far to much,ppl repetedly report strings of win or lose and of far to high skill gap betwean winer and losers.

“the system is trying to reduce the rating difference as much as possible”.
Facts stands that rating difference is huge and is making ppl unhappy,this is not only my view it is said by many before and after me.

That you reported that in january ,then it was fixed and bug same as that one was found in late July tells me a lot…

I linked post where dev cofirmed this ,called it a bug, later on and supposedly fixed it(reasonable doubt it wasnt fixed after ppl keep reporting same thing happening)
yet you ignore it…

deda.8302:

I linked post where dev cofirmed this ,called it a bug, later on and supposedly fixed it(reasonable doubt it wasnt fixed after ppl keep reporting same thing happening)
yet you ignore it…

You are still not understanding how the system SHOULD work, where BUGS are happening AND how it deal with outliners.
I tried to explain it to you, but you still seem you want to play the blame-game and not trying to understand the system. Please google how a match making system is working. Maybe if you don’t believe me, you might believe the thousands of possible sources you will find after googling.

The thread you posted was regarding a bug. The system still found 10 players of almost the equal skill, but the distribution of those 10 players was faulted.

Players ranked by MMR: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
Team1: 10, 4, 3, 2, 1
Team2: 9, 8, 7, 6, 5

BUT it should be fixed by now:

The way it is intended to work is the next biggest roster gets put onto the smallest team so far, or the next highest MMR roster gets put onto the team with the lowest total MMR.

= the average rating of each team should be as close as possible.

“SHOULD work”

I rest my case .

deda.8302:

“SHOULD work”

I rest my case .

Yeah, reduce the system that works in 99% of the cases to the few bugs that happened and got fixed. GJ!

You are the little special snowflake that should always win but the poor rating system is ALWAYS placing you with kitten players.

Here have a hug!

getting a Solo Q won’t make the game “better” … u don’t have enough teams to have 2 different Q’s (unless u want to wait 2h per game)

Nath Forge Tempete.1645:

getting a Solo Q won’t make the game “better” … u don’t have enough teams to have 2 different Q’s (unless u want to wait 2h per game)

So? That’s the frigging point, no one cares about Team ques, same as with LoL, all pros and casuals play the same mode, which Solo q.

And Anet, just promotes fun for TEAMS, when their bigger player base suffer.

well i have a team … and some friends to play with … it’s 100% funnier to play with that to play alone …

If you didn’t see this system failing months ago, you’re really delusional and/or gullible.

Nath Forge Tempete.1645:

well i have a team … and some friends to play with … it’s 100% funnier to play with that to play alone …

Yeah sure, it’s alot of fun to pwn people with out teams, so get your team que and have fun there… with Guild leader board, you have teams to que against, but then there should be no whining about queues.

well … I can"t say that we are a really good team =) (stop being hatefull) it’s not because i’m playing in team that i’m exploiting the system XD

there’s some other team and sometimes good 3 teammates. As it said … in the end, i have a 50% winning ratio even with my team…

stop being such a kitten dude ;-) solo Q isn’t the solution to make this game more healthy

Nath Forge Tempete.1645:

well … I can"t say that we are a really good team =) (stop being hatefull) it’s not because i’m playing in team that i’m exploiting the system XD

there’s some other team and sometimes good 3 teammates. As it said … in the end, i have a 50% winning ratio even with my team…

stop being such a kitten dude ;-) solo Q isn’t the solution to make this game more healthy

I m not saying that you exploit it, it’s just unhealthy for others to face you, since, if you are not ultra good, but premade anyway, which means, you don’t need to know what movement is there on the map, how many players are against you at the specific point etc, all is said via TS, you know what builds your team mates use. Soloqers don’t have control over anything, that’s just another level, they have to be twice as good as you to actually win, all of them, as well as the system and the way it works right now, if you have high mmr places you against premades with tankers or noobs to fit your win ratio to 50/50.

You can’t put teams and soloers in same environments because it will be just un fun for the least.

It is the solution, because, if teams doesn’t have enough teams to play against, what the point in the teams ? You will always have enthusiasts to play against, so what’s the problem ? I m not hateful, it’s just the way system works, in all more or less successful games, when teams and soloers separated. Your fun, shouldn’t start there where it ends for others.

Who cares what he says he’s arrogant snoob who rages bc he lost match xd

Hey all !

Tonight : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-on-guild-chat/

Go on twitch and spam them, 3 years for that…. it s ridiculous, they don’t have test this league.

It’s just the same grind system with the last ladderboard (still not reset…)

Just go on twitch tonight, and ask for forum answer !!!

they just killing pvp