Guild Wars 2

Glad leader boards are finally up..but just a little confused on why they are only based on win/loss ratio.

Leader boards should be based on how well you did in the match even if your team lost. Just a suggestion, I feel those who ARE on the winning team should be rewarded more but at the same time if your top 2 on a losing team you should get some recognition.

Thoughts on this? I feel like this could be done if the points system was more in depth/expanded. Defenders need some love and a lot of team contribution goes unnoticed in the final score board.

Leaderboards are not based on Win loss ratio. They are based on a currently concealed rating system. Being able to see your rating is a pending feature.

I can’t agree more man they should use this system for guilds/teams that must register kind of like in wow and give us solo players a real leader board for regular players that rewards individual effort.

Thesilentflute.8761:

I can’t agree more man they should use this system for guilds/teams that must register kind of like in wow and give us solo players a real leader board for regular players that rewards individual effort.

While I agree with this sentiment, this is not the topic of the thread.

Baam.2493:

Leaderboards are not based on Win loss ratio. They are based on a currently concealed rating system. Being able to see your rating is a pending feature.

Their concealed rating system needs to be revealed then because currently it doesn’t really feel like im individually getting recognized for my own spvp talent.

If you sort by Wins, you can see it by Wins. If you sort by Rank, it’s something else entirely. I agree with above posters – Release your ranking system!!

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

Baam.2493:

Leaderboards are not based on Win loss ratio. They are based on a currently concealed rating system. Being able to see your rating is a pending feature.

Their concealed rating system needs to be revealed then because currently it doesn’t really feel like im individually getting recognized for my own spvp talent.

I 100% agree, but I will play the devil’s advocate here and speak for Anet.

Anet isn’t releasing their rating system (as far as I know) because they are still tweaking and adjusting it. If they have to change the values or rankings (like adding an extra 0 to the end, or removing one) while you can see it, some people will get kitten .

People get kitten at everything in MMOs, there is just too large of a demographic.

Yes, and also they probably don’t want players to adjust their playstyles to skew the rankings heh…

Baam.2493:

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

Baam.2493:

Leaderboards are not based on Win loss ratio. They are based on a currently concealed rating system. Being able to see your rating is a pending feature.

Their concealed rating system needs to be revealed then because currently it doesn’t really feel like im individually getting recognized for my own spvp talent.

I 100% agree, but I will play the devil’s advocate here and speak for Anet.

Anet isn’t releasing their rating system (as far as I know) because they are still tweaking and adjusting it. If they have to change the values or rankings (like adding an extra 0 to the end, or removing one) while you can see it, some people will get kitten .

People get kitten at everything in MMOs, there is just too large of a demographic.

Ya I guess that’s true, but at the rate anet is releasing pvp content they probably won’t release the formula for a few months and when they finally do my best bet is it won’t satisfy a lot of people. They should just release it now and tweak it based off player feedback.

How do you gauge skill besides those who win the most and those who don’t? It’s pretty much impossible as there are so many nuances and variables.

Did you cap the most points? Okay but what about the person who roamed around points and assisted to down players but never actually capped anything?

Did you get the most kills? Okay but what about those who are focused on the actual objective of controlling points?

There’s no way to really gauge skill outside of “Do they win?”.

Pandabro.8743:

How do you gauge skill besides those who win the most and those who don’t? It’s pretty much impossible as there are so many nuances and variables.

Did you cap the most points? Okay but what about the person who roamed around points and assisted to down players but never actually capped anything?

Did you get the most kills? Okay but what about those who are focused on the actual objective of controlling points?

There’s no way to really gauge skill outside of “Do they win?”.

Ya I was thinking about that which is why I suggested they give points to bunkers who defend nodes and things like that. They can make it work..anything is better then this. Your telling me I can be the worst spvp player in the world and be ranked #1 if I am on one of the best pvp teams? That doesn’t make sense.

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

if your top 2 on a losing team you should get some recognition.

The system is based off of rating. You get rating per win, and you lose rating per loss. You gain more rating for beating high rated players, and lose less rating for losing to high rated players. You gain less rating for beating low rated players, and lose more rating for losing to low rated players.

With that said, it’s best to base rating off of wins and losses. Wins and losses isn’t that great for determining your rating in the short term, but in the long term it will get you to where you should be. If you’re holding people back, people are less likely to make groups with you. For the long run in solo queueing yes it’s frustrating when you have teams that you feel aren’t communicating/trying to win/aren’t as good as you. But in the long term everyone else will be getting these groups just as much as you are.

There is no correlation between your personal score and how important you were to winning or losing the game. There’s so many aspects of the game that just can’t be quantified. You don’t get points for peeling enemies off teammates. You don’t get points for defending a node 1vX while your team takes the other nodes.

Even when you do things to get points who says you’re actually helping the team? What if you kill a boss on forest while your team is fighting 5v4 on mid (and then they most likely lose that fight) compared to killing it after you won a big team fight (while the enemy team is dead)? You get the same amount of points for killing the boss, but these two situations leave your team in drastically different positions.

Then you get into the issue of people worry about their score more than worrying about winning. This can lead to people putting 3 people on a point so they all get points for it. Or maybe they run around as a group of 5 just getting kills.

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

Ya I was thinking about that which is why I suggested they give points to bunkers who defend nodes and things like that. They can make it work..anything is better then this. Your telling me I can be the worst spvp player in the world and be ranked #1 if I am on one of the best pvp teams? That doesn’t make sense.

I see this suggestion a lot: giving points to players that sit on a node the entire game, regardless of it being attacked or not. If it’s not attacked, then you’re as good as not being there, so why should you get points for it? What about people that defend a point with portal or other high mobility skills? They’re helpful to other areas of the map while keeping an eye on the point they’re defending.

Defending a point doesn’t mean you have to sit on it. If you gave points to players that sit on a point it will lead to a lot of people solo queueing and afking on their close point.

folly’s right guys, it’s a team game and a team effort. It sucks that solo queue and premades are meshed into one pool, but skewing the rating to favor players that get more points in a match is an even bigger joke.
The points system will undoubtedly be replaced later with a kills/deaths/damage delt/damage taken/ect… filter.

Pandabro.8743:

How do you gauge skill besides those who win the most and those who don’t? It’s pretty much impossible as there are so many nuances and variables.

Did you cap the most points? Okay but what about the person who roamed around points and assisted to down players but never actually capped anything?

Did you get the most kills? Okay but what about those who are focused on the actual objective of controlling points?

There’s no way to really gauge skill outside of “Do they win?”.

Sure there is man the point system in game rewards all types of play defending you get extra points objectives you get points trebing, killing keep lords, and scoring the orb it’s all accounted for already they could use “points scored\deaths = player score” then tanky players are covered by the deaths portion and dps players are covered by there high scores.

Edit- if a progressive score is thought to be a problem they could use the mean score though this would be much less favorable to dps classes as number of deaths will vary more for them but it would also promote excellence.

Edit 2: Blackhawk you guys are rewarded you get an extra 10 points per kill

As Folly said, its impossible to measure anyone by thier performance in a match on a leaderboard. Rankings has to come from win/loss with a rating system, anything else is too inaccurate.

TS noob? Im have 170 wins 20 lue 90% almost win ratio in TSPVP im not in TOP1000

Anhellbro.7213:

TS noob? Im have 170 wins 20 lue 90% almost win ratio in TSPVP im not in TOP1000

lol I wasn’t in the top 1000 either becuase I solo lots, mess around, run stupid classes etc but last night we got a group together. Won like 7 in a row against people in the top 1000, including a few games against teams in the top 100 and top 25.

Our team and myself shot up the leaderboards from outside the top 1000 to inside the top 200 because we took the games a little more serious. I was ranked around 280 when I logged out. Wake up this morning and I am not on the list at all but all of my team mates have kept their ranks, give or take 1-5 places.

I also checked the top 1000 filtered by wins, which I know I was somewhere near the top and I am now not even in the top 1000. Its like I have been totally removed from the leaderboards for taking the game serious for 1 night and climbing too fast??

I hope they are not reworking the formulas based on a few people they see as anomalies in the ranking because they gained 750+ positions in the space of 2 hours. Anet please realise some people just messed around before the leaderboards were visable, in doing so destroying their rank.

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

Ya I was thinking about that which is why I suggested they give points to bunkers who defend nodes and things like that. They can make it work..anything is better then this. Your telling me I can be the worst spvp player in the world and be ranked #1 if I am on one of the best pvp teams? That doesn’t make sense.

That scenario is hypothetical at best. Simply because the 4 other players who are carrying that one player will always be higher ranked than that one player. You can only carry someone so far.

W/L rating is in many MOBA matchmaking systems and they work quite well for predicting skill despite being a team game. The reason is that after a certain number of games everything evens out and the only variable left is you. If you improve you will win more, if you don’t you won’t. Sure you will have a few unfortunate games here and there but for the most part those will be the exception not the rule and the statistics will inevitably reveal your true skill.

Is it a perfect system? No, but it’s much simpler and easy for users to understand compared to what your suggestions and there’s no guarantee that that system would be any better than the current one for revealing true skill.

To get a system, as you’ve proposed, to work right you’d need such tight tuning on the numbers. Which would take a huge amount of data mining and months, if not years of tweaking.

Follidus.8027:

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

Ya I was thinking about that which is why I suggested they give points to bunkers who defend nodes and things like that. They can make it work..anything is better then this. Your telling me I can be the worst spvp player in the world and be ranked #1 if I am on one of the best pvp teams? That doesn’t make sense.

I see this suggestion a lot: giving points to players that sit on a node the entire game, regardless of it being attacked or not. If it’s not attacked, then you’re as good as not being there, so why should you get points for it? What about people that defend a point with portal or other high mobility skills? They’re helpful to other areas of the map while keeping an eye on the point they’re defending.

Defending a point doesn’t mean you have to sit on it. If you gave points to players that sit on a point it will lead to a lot of people solo queueing and afking on their close point.

So with your theory on how ratings work its just pointless on solo que players. Maybe with pre made group this works fine but there are far more solo que players then premade teams.

On point calculations …look the devs can think of something , this is their job, critical thinking is part of their occupation.

You said if 3 people try getting on a node for more points or killing a boss for 25 points. They can just reduce the number of points given by the increased number of players on a node….they can just give 10 points for killing a boss instead of 25…..they can think of something….

To the poster about bunkers,

Devs can think of something to reward defenders of the game. Say if the point was being attacked and you defend it… a cool down of 10 sec beings and after that you get 2 points a sec for a remaining 10 sec while your defending it.

Im just throwing out ideas, dev can make this work in terms of indivual play rather then determing YOUR rank based on how a pug team did…..(yes im refering to solo que players as that is the majority)

And I use the bunker example as a gateway to other areas that should reward points to players aside from just killing other players and capping nodes.

Who cares what happens within the match, the only thing that matters is if your group or team got the W.

Valkyriez.6578:

Who cares what happens within the match, the only thing that matters is if your group or team got the W.

It’s kind of a stupid system for random solo que groups. It is basically the luck of the draw at this point.

I love this rating system in my pre made group but going solo it doesn’t make sense.

It does make sense though, if the matchmaking is effective and working. The split does need to happen, I agree with that. Teams shouldn’t be farming solo players, but outside that, a solo player leaderboard based on Elo and wins/losses works fine in plenty of Esports games because the statistics support it.

Smite, LoL etc can all make it work and thats not that different to sPvP at the core for tournament PvP. Most matches rely on the teamwork as a group, an all solo match has the issue for both teams, working together without VoIP. Good players will always rise to the top because they can react to the situation at hand.

Admittedly, the current format isn’t very good because solo players are just getting crushed by teams.

Valkyriez.6578:

It does make sense though, if the matchmaking is effective and working. The split does need to happen, I agree with that. Teams shouldn’t be farming solo players, but outside that, a solo player leaderboard based on Elo and wins/losses works fine in plenty of Esports games because the statistics support it.

Smite, LoL etc can all make it work and thats not that different to sPvP at the core for tournament PvP. Most matches rely on the teamwork as a group, an all solo match has the issue for both teams, working together without VoIP. Good players will always rise to the top because they can react to the situation at hand.

Admittedly, the current format isn’t very good because solo players are just getting crushed by teams.

Ya your right..and even though good players can rise to the top and help a team out dramatically…1 player cant win a game. On pugs theres always a kitten acting a fool which brings down a team a lot.

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

So with your theory on how ratings work its just pointless on solo que players. Maybe with pre made group this works fine but there are far more solo que players then premade teams.

This is fixed by putting in a solo queue itself. That’s a much better solution to be honest.