Leaderboards: How will you calculate ratings?

Leaderboards: How will you calculate ratings?

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Posted by: Anvi.1802

Anvi.1802

I would like to share my concerns about the formula that will be used to calculate everyone’s rating.

They must come up with a formula that does not give an advantage to the ppl who play the most, nor to those who play very little, though that should still be taken into account. (For instance the simple formula that gives +10 points for a win, and -10 points for a loss would be wrong, because a player with a 90% win/loss ratio will have 80 points over 10 games -9 wins, 1 loss- but a guy with a 60% win/loss ratio can have the same score by playing more, here 40 games – 60% wins so 24 games worth 240 points and 40% losses so 16 games worth -160 points, for a total of 80 points).

So I figured it would help if we could give them some guidance while it’s still a work in progress.

First, if one day this game wants to make it to eSports, it needs first of all a proper and reliable match making system. And imho that should be a mandatory basis for building a reliable leaderboard ranking.
(Because you are all happy about the leaderboards, but you have no idea how biased it’s going to be given the current matchmaking system. You rarely face opponents of your level, if you play on busy hours you are a lot more likely to face a PUG team of PvE players getting their laurels than a competitive team seeking PvP challenge, whereas if you play in the late night you are more likely to face hardcore gamers, or Asians :p. Just this makes the rating system biased if the formula does not take everything into account as I suggest below.)

Then it needs a fair formula for calculating the leaderboards, and MAKE IT PUBLIC. (If the formula is 100% fair like we hope, I guess Anet won’t have any concerns making it public, if they don’t, you can rightfully assume that the formula is biased/wrong, and showing it could lead to exploiting it.)

So, here is my little contribution.

The rating system should have the following features:
-Points cannot be created nor deleted, they must be swapped between teams. After each game, the winning team must earn as many point as the opposing team loses. Otherwise it will lead to exploits.

-The difference in the average win/loss ratio of each member of each team should be taken into account (If you are in a team with an average win/loss ratio of 50%, winning against a team with an avg w/l ratio of 90% should gives you more points than winning against a team with an avg of 10% w/l ratio)
PS: this rule would not be needed if the matchmaking system worked properly

-The difference in the avg of games played should be taken into account (Again, winning against a team which has an avg of 90% win/loss ratio over 500 games must give you more points than a team with the same w/l ratio -ie 90%- but over only 5 games.)
PS: this rule would not be needed if the matchmaking system worked properly

-For lack of making a separate category for competitive 5-players premade team tournaments, the formula should take into account how many members of each team queued together. (If you are 3 guild mates queueing and get 2 PU players who soloqueued, your team should get something like a -20% on the loss of points after a loss against a 5-players premade team -and obviously the winning team will have a -20% penalty on the points earned as well- to compensate for the PUGing)
PS: this rule would not be needed if the matchmaking system worked properly

-Prevent players from changing characters AFTER the game has begun.

-Dealing with AFKers / Leavers: Huge point penalty like the equivalent of 20 losses, and provided that the matchmaking system works properly, after afking or leaving a few games they will only face r10- teams.

-Reset the leaderboard every so often (every month?) in order to kick out players who don’t play anymore, and give a chance for new players to get in.

I really hope that this thread will be useless because everything has been accounted for.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.

Leaderboards: How will you calculate ratings?

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Posted by: Sprawl.3891

Sprawl.3891

ratings will not be shown on the leaderboard if i recall. So you won’t know anything about where you stand other than a rank number.

Sprawl – Necro – Eredon Terrace

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Posted by: PowerBottom.5796

PowerBottom.5796

Well, it should basically be a standard ELO-Rating System.

What I think would be necessary is to differentiate between Solo-q/Dual-q and Team-q. First of all, games should Prioritize Team vs Team and Solo vs Solo. For shorter q’s, it should search outside of this Formula if the wait would be too long.

I don’t think Solo-q’s should be rewarded for Solo-q’ing against Teams by loosing less Points on a Loss or gaining more Points on a win – the System should encourage queuing as a Team.

Also, if two proper 5-man Teams face each other, the System should award more Points, because Premade vs Premade is much harder than if you simply Zerg with a few solo-q’ers against another Solo-q Team.

Remembering back to Hotjoin vs free Tournaments vs Paid Tournaments, we saw how huge the Skill-difference is and that should be reflected in the rating. It would be totally senseless if sm1 that simply Solo-q’s all day long would be regarded as equally skilled as sm1 who constantly plays with a Team against other premade Teams.

As far as I am concerned, the Solo-q ranking will probably say as much about skill as the current Glory-Ranks and the only thing that would actually tell sth. about skill is a ranking of premade vs premade: No excuses there and all the aspects of Teamplay are actually represented.

IMHO, simply splitting up premade vs solo-q would be the best option.

(edited by PowerBottom.5796)

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Posted by: Erwin.5603

Erwin.5603

Do you really think that you know more about formulas than a game developer with a appropriate degree?

Fixi

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Posted by: mbh.8301

mbh.8301

Well, it should basically be a standard ELO-Rating System.

They use a Glicko rating system for wvw. Does this mean they’ll use it for pvp? Maybe.

It’s not all that different from Elo (which isn’t an acronym), but you can lose rating if you’re not winning hard enough. You see this in the bottom tier of wvw where the top world has 2-3x everyone else’s score but still loses rating.

[quote=1567239;Lexie.5894:] My PVP experience is very consistent. I run around,
I fight people, sometimes they kill me, sometimes I kill them. Fun is had by all. [/quote]

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Posted by: Anvi.1802

Anvi.1802

Do you really think that you know more about formulas than a game developer with a appropriate degree?

Hmmm let me see.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Leaderboards-for-Qualifying-Points/first#post665713

Yeah, you are right, best system ever, can’t argue with that. Those who play the most, earn the most points. Pure eSport material.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.

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Posted by: Sprawl.3891

Sprawl.3891

Do you really think that you know more about formulas than a game developer with a appropriate degree?

“developers know best” people like you are why the pvp in this game is so bad

Sprawl – Necro – Eredon Terrace

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Posted by: mursie.3681

mursie.3681

Formula for your rank is as follows per the last sotg leak discussion:

hope that helps.

#soon

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Posted by: mbh.8301

mbh.8301

Formula for your rank is as follows per the last sotg leak discussion:

hope that helps.

#soon

Was this another invisible joke? I’m never sure anymore.

[quote=1567239;Lexie.5894:] My PVP experience is very consistent. I run around,
I fight people, sometimes they kill me, sometimes I kill them. Fun is had by all. [/quote]

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Posted by: Torqky.3682

Torqky.3682

I hear they superadventurebox may be getting leaderboards. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/sab/Things-to-improve/page/2
SUPERADVENTUREBOX has more devs responding than spvp forums. Some serious stuff guys take a look lol

Torqky-80 Necro-Blackgate [HB]

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Posted by: Ashanor.5319

Ashanor.5319

the System should encourage queuing as a Team.

I don’t think so, personally. It should encourage queuing however you want to queue.

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Posted by: Valkyriez.6578

Valkyriez.6578

Jonathon Sharp has said that the MMR used in sPvP is the Glicko 2 rating system. I agree that a blog post needs to be done to explain how it works, but there ya go.

I doubt you will find an official statement. JSharp mentioned it when he was in game in the Mists. There was a posts about it here but would have disappeared under the QQ ages ago.

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Posted by: Neri.3415

Neri.3415

Well, if they indeed are using Glicko rating system, that would be nice.

Glico calculates the rake and the uncertanty of the rank.

To calculate the rank, the rank of the opposite team and the outcome of the game is considered. Since the outcome of sPVP games can be anywhere from 0 to 500 point difference, sPVP may take into account not just win/loss but also by the number of points one team won against another.

The uncertanty is based on the last time that someone has played a game. This makes sense, since a great player 1 month ago may not be number 1 anymore. So while playing many games does not make you the best, it will refresh the information more often and reduce uncertanty.