Guild Wars 2

Arenanet this is a serious question, I beg you to not close this thread aswell.
You said you needed a week for making leaderboards visible. Well, 9 days have passed and there is not even a clue of how the work is going, you just keep saying “soon/when it’s ready/blahblahblah”, but people are getting angry (and you saw it from the forum spam today), so please, do us a favor and tell us when you are going to release leaderboards, or if you are having technical issues or whatever. Just make us know, a lot of people are still playing the game just because of this stupid leaderboards, we are already frustrated enough, come on.

This is why they shouldn’t give us deadlines and soon is the best response.

They said a week. They admitted it’s not ready yet. Now they said soon.

Soon means soon.

You realize the irony occurring here? The only reason the forums are up in arms is because ArenaNet gave us an ETA a week ago. A week ago had they just said “soon” then people wouldn’t be complaining now.

What do you want, them to say “in a week” and then in a week if it’s not ready the forum can go on their immature tangent again?

It’ll be ready when it’s ready.

Eurantien.4632:

This is why they shouldn’t give us deadlines and soon is the best response.

No, this is the real problem. They said “soon” in October and we are still here waiting for Custom Arenas.

a company that refuses to give ETAs is a company that knows it’s not efficient enough to meet that goal.

felivear.1536:

a company that refuses to give ETAs is a company that knows it’s not efficient enough to meet that goal.

Ever heard of Gabe Newell?

felivear.1536:

a company that refuses to give ETAs is a company that knows it’s not efficient enough to meet that goal.

It is blatantly inefficient. Customer service is one of the most important things for a company. Sadly you can work around it with customers keeping false hopes up. And that is not taken care off well to avoid it.

who from our community will rise up and be the Ghandi of gw2 pvp and lead the players to peaceful protest? who will have the heart to stand their ground and the voice to express our discontent?

Eurantien.4632:

This is why they shouldn’t give us deadlines and soon is the best response.

Or maybe they could simply make an in forums announcement saying " sorry guise, we had a delay, Leaderboards will come in another week".

maybe they should simply L2communicate.

what if…the leadersboards are so awesome that it literally took 6 months to make? :O

IF i was u i would delete this post before cc eva sees it/ they already said anyone spaming for leaderbords will recieve consequences… just a friendly warning bro.

In my opinion the problem is, that say said that their leaderboards are finished and “live” but they just want to wait until ranks stabilising (up to a week). However, now we recognise that the whole announcement was just an advertisement lie. They were not able to finish it in time and they dont know if they can finish it by tomorrow and they are afraid that any new “soon” comment on the forums might lead to a massive (or minor considering the size of the pvp community) kittenstorm.

So they deleted all request or merged them with a lock, thus they vanish by tomorrow. Feels a little bit like GDR.

It was stated that it would “take up to a week”. This compiled with the fact that we have received no real updates for 7 months has the community pretty riled and rightly so.
I don’t think it’s fair to be giving threats to a frustrated community that freely gave their money to what was supposed to be a very respected company.

Eurantien.4632:

This is why they shouldn’t give us deadlines and soon is the best response.

I agree.

DrakesGreenEnvy.9683:

It was stated that it would “take up to a week”. This compiled with the fact that we have received no real updates for 7 months has the community pretty riled and rightly so.
I don’t think it’s fair to be giving threats to a frustrated community that freely gave their money to what was supposed to be a very respected company.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We will leave this thread open, but will keep an eye on it. If it will get derailed or something like the earlier “incident” will take place, we will close it immediately.

We understand that leaderboards are very important to you, but please understand that we also want to make sure they work as intended, because I am very sure incorrectly working leaderboards would not make a highly competitive PvP base happy. We will let you know when they will be going live as soon as we feel comfortable to do so.

So please keep the discussion in this thread civil and on point.

Martin,

Thank you first and foremost for communicating this to us. Please understand that 99.9% of the “highly competitive” community would be content if you guys simply kept us in the loop more. In the last 6+ months, we as a community have been jerked around with empty promises of e-sport and it is very hard to continue to support this game when we know NOTHING about the direction it is headed.

You are the first (FIRST) dev to come on and give us something of a concrete answer on what the heck is going on with the leaderboards. Thank you again for your time and please encourage your higher ups to COMMUNICATE via a formal announcement regarding the delay of leaderboards SOON. Without such an announcement, how can you expect the player base NOT to ask questions?

Thanks again!

xantosnightwish.5438:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We will leave this thread open, but will keep an eye on it. If it will get derailed or something like the earlier “incident” will take place, we will close it immediately.

We understand that leaderboards are very important to you, but please understand that we also want to make sure they work as intended, because I am very sure incorrectly working leaderboards would not make a highly competitive PvP base happy. We will let you know when they will be going live as soon as we feel comfortable to do so.

So please keep the discussion in this thread civil and on point.

Martin,

Thank you first and foremost for communicating this to us. Please understand that 99.9% of the “highly competitive” community would be content if you guys simply kept us in the loop more. In the last 6+ months, we as a community have been jerked around with empty promises of e-sport and it is very hard to continue to support this game when we know NOTHING about the direction it is headed.

You are the first (FIRST) dev to come on and give us something of a concrete answer on what the heck is going on with the leaderboards. Thank you again for your time and please encourage your higher ups to COMMUNICATE via a formal announcement regarding the delay of leaderboards SOON. Without such an announcement, how can you expect the player base NOT to ask questions?

Thanks again!

Basically, dis.

Dont blame them they are just trying to make it better.

whistle

Honestly, I don’t think we have to worry ourselves about visible leaderboards for a couple weeks at least. We might get lucky have have them come online within a week, but I would not hold my breath.

all of us are holding our breath though. we check the forums every hour to see if they are up. and that sataarcoeny guy keeps yelling in the mist they are up. it really has everyone worked up. maybe if a dev can say not for the next 3 days or not for the next week. something like that so we dont keep looking

You don’t have to say soon, just update if there has been a delay and anyone sane will understand.

ensoriki.5789:

You don’t have to say soon, just update if there has been a delay and anyone sane will understand.

Didn’t the patch notes say up to two weeks?

Guys the leaderboards are being made. Is that not enough? Yeah they said a week and something came up. kitten happens… I’d rather them do it late and right than now and wrong.

Rastaman.9015:

Guys the leaderboards are being made. Is that not enough? Yeah they said a week and something came up. kitten happens… I’d rather them do it late and right than now and wrong.

Well thats the biggest problem we already know its going to be done wrong, because it cant be right in a current 1 for all que matchmaking system. They have been telling us they rather take longer and do it right but it took them about 6 months to do the matchmaking and i think everyone agrees that it is currently horrible resulting in a bad leaderboard aswell. So in the end not only are they taking forever they are doing it wrong and are refusing to listen to us or communicate with us.

I have no problems if ppl give deadlines and aren’t ready by then. What I don’t get is that nobody from a-net is able to create a little post about: “We still have some issues with this and that, so we need more time”. I think ppl wouldn’t rage here if you’d do that.

And sentences like this….:
[We will leave this thread open, but will keep an eye on it. If it will get derailed or something like the earlier “incident” will take place, we will close it immediately.]

….wouldn’t be necessary

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We will leave this thread open, but will keep an eye on it. If it will get derailed or something like the earlier “incident” will take place, we will close it immediately.

We understand that leaderboards are very important to you, but please understand that we also want to make sure they work as intended, because I am very sure incorrectly working leaderboards would not make a highly competitive PvP base happy. We will let you know when they will be going live as soon as we feel comfortable to do so.

So please keep the discussion in this thread civil and on point.

First, thanks for your answer.

Incorrectly working leaderboards wouldnt make them community happy. Ok, thats true. But thats not the problem here Martin. We just want to know why we are still waiting. Were there some unforseen errors and problems? Is this stuff just not progressing as fast as you thought it would?
We just want to know whats going on, thats all. When its ready/soon and that stuff, yep its cool that you are telling us that you know about the pvp community. But its certainly nothing that would satisify our needs. There are tons of people that had high hopes for these leaderboards. But now, erf… a few days after that certain week where everyone expected the leaderboards, theres just that feeling of dissapointment.

I played that game/the spvp till the very first beta. I always thought it could become something great. And im one of those few people from back then that are still playing pvp. You told us back then this game could become a esport. But every day i get higher doubts if i still should invest my precious time in a pvp thats not getting better at all and that is certainly not even becoming close to be anything like a esport.

When im comparing the pvp from the first beta and that one from now, there were changes, yep. But its changes like: 3 new maps, no paids anymore, no tickets. Things that were certainly promised, like custom arenas, leaderboards or that spectator-mode are still missing, while you promised all of that a long time ago. You are just going on with giving us release dates for this stuff, we are getting our hopes up, and then? Nothing. No updates for the pvp.

Its the same with these leaderboards. You are not delivering your stuff when you told us you would do so. And afterwards you dont tell us why you dont deliver. And threats wont make it better. Just be fair please.

totally agree!
it is more and more frustrating how anet deals with their pvp community. all these empty promises.
im sick of it!!!

Could we atleast get some sneak peaks/Teaser pictures or videos??

Im starting to feel more and more like the spvp crew are being held back by the company of anet / ncsoft….im starting to sense they are getting frustrated as we are but can’t explain or express as much as they want to due to higher ups from the company.

So while personally i feel the reason the updates are coming so slow isn’t the spvp crews fault but the companies fault…I do think they could be a bit more communicative and less scared of giving us reasons etc…Honestly what i’d love is a half hour where the state of the game crew with the top spvp’ers can sit down with all the spvp crew ( all 2 of em i fear ) and real non PR coated bullkitten " safe " answers….i UNDERSTAND your plight that you need to be safe and stuff….but just once….half an hour….give us real answers ask anything we want and dont be safe about it….

Why are features taking so long? to be honest theres only 5 tops people working on it and as a company we make more money from pve so we drive that first and foremost…etc

spectator mode when? We are actually struggling with it to be honest we know theres a plethora of things spvp needs and because of our numbers we can only tackle one thing at a time….its on the back burner tbh…..

These are examples but yea….no holds barred just be real.

all IMO of course…but hey….i will always hold onto hope that say in another 6 months major improvements will have been made….most mmo’s ive played looking back now weren’t too crash hot the first year or so.

Im curious, are the leaderboards going to be a top 100 display?

how comprehensive will they be?

daydream.2938:

Im curious, are the leaderboards going to be a top 100 display?

how comprehensive will they be?

That’s a toplist not a leaderboard. It should display everyone.

Gandarel.5091:

daydream.2938:

Im curious, are the leaderboards going to be a top 100 display?

how comprehensive will they be?

That’s a toplist not a leaderboard. It should display everyone.

everyone? what if someones only played 1 spvp tourney in the last month.

Or what if some guy did 10 matchs with premades during early afternoon, and is 10 and 0. He might be high up the leaderboards, without it really being representative.

It seems probable to me that they were going to do this within a week and then the super adventure box was an epic success so they rushed to fix things in this and to create gem store items for it whilst putting leaderboards on the backburner.

daydream.2938:

Gandarel.5091:

daydream.2938:

Im curious, are the leaderboards going to be a top 100 display?

how comprehensive will they be?

That’s a toplist not a leaderboard. It should display everyone.

everyone? what if someones only played 1 spvp tourney in the last month.

Or what if some guy did 10 matchs with premades during early afternoon, and is 10 and 0. He might be high up the leaderboards, without it really being representative.

There are plenty of existing rating algorithms that take sample size (or in this case games played) into account. One popular one is the Bayesian Average method:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_average

For example, IMDB uses a similiar method to calculate their top 250 ranked movies. They incorporate a minimum number of votes as 25,000 in order to smooth the data. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Movie_Database#Ranking_.28IMDb_Top_250.29).

I am confident that Anet would use some method in order to account for players with low games played.

Or they’ll simply show everyone who has the highest glory ranks.

It appears that the sPvP section of the forums got an unusual amount of attention from Anet staffers in the last 24 hours. I am cautiously optimistic that the tide may be turning a little bit in our favor at this point.

There is not a perfect way to rate sPvP in its current state due to the issue of solo vs premade and low po kitten ues, so I would say that transparency on what is implemented is probably the most important thing. At least then we know what we are looking at. A system that accounts for strength of schedule is a must, and there also needs to be a minimum sample size considered.

and, yeah. What Xantos said.

What i cannot understand is whats the difficult behind a ranking list ? i mean, even the worst game on earth which involve pvp has a table with names and related pvp ranks, to let “pros” show the world that they are “pros”. This is maybe one of the most important thing, along with game balance, for a pvp game…. and considering that this game was introduced like an upcoming esport i really cant understand why such a tool wasnt here since the beginning…. seems so obvious that i really cant get it.

Rastaman.9015:

Guys the leaderboards are being made. Is that not enough? Yeah they said a week and something came up. kitten happens… I’d rather them do it late and right than now and wrong.

Oberver mode is also in the making…… For months…. fake cheer

Guys, relax

It’s really gonna happen this time, I can feel it.
I think more devs are working on sPvP right now so that’s really good news.

what I don’t get is the leaderboard is supposed to be finished just hidden, so all they should need to do is make it visible. this just shows their are bigger issuea possibly with the ratings or something else so we probably wont see anything anytime soon since are keeping us completely in the dark regarding why its delayed.

They said they want to make sure the leaderboard is working. They also said it’s there but hidden. So when they do make sure and it’s working, it will show the stats from when it was broken as well? I see…

Or wait, wouldn’t the more simple explanation be that “invisible” means "we don’t have enough competent programmers to make it work, but players wanted to make some progress so we’ll just say it’s “invisible” even though we don’t have anything yet.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We understand that leaderboards are very important to you, but please understand that we also want to make sure they work as intended, because I am very sure incorrectly working leaderboards would not make a highly competitive PvP base happy.

In that case we need separated solo queues and premades. Otherwise we will always see premades on the top of the leaderboard. I believe, correct me if Im wrong, that majority of PvPers are not playing in premades and are not using voice-chat and forcing them to would not be correct.

Authority.4386:

In that case we need separated solo queues and premades. Otherwise we will always see premades on the top of the leaderboard. I believe, correct me if Im wrong, that majority of PvPers are not playing in premades and are not using voice-chat and forcing them to would not be correct.

No u dont understand, if ur good enough u can carry your whole team, even tho u have no voice chat and a few rank 0-20 in there that dont have any idea what to do, wont talk to u and frankly dont care if u say anything to them, atleast thats what the devs say.

Authority.4386:

In that case we need separated solo queues and premades. Otherwise we will always see premades on the top of the leaderboard. I believe, correct me if Im wrong, that majority of PvPers are not playing in premades and are not using voice-chat and forcing them to would not be correct.

This is a good idea, but the reality is that premades > solo ques from a competetive perspective. More skill is involved in a premade v premade match, and it is indisputable. Unfortunately for as long as solo que is thrown into the same que as premade there is an inherent imbalance there that can’t be resolved. Eventually it would be awesome to have solo’s seperated, but for now if all we get is one ladder, then it is progress. Count me in the minority (I suppose) for being glad that they didn’t put up a flawed iteration of the ranking system. They noticed it wasn’t working right and are taking action to correct it before it is visible. While communication of this might have been nice, there is a limit to the time resource that A-net staf has available,so as a community I think we should all be able to understand that “soon” is really the best answer in this instance.

Lok.3102:

They said a week. They admitted it’s not ready yet. Now they said soon.

Soon means soon.

You realize the irony occurring here? The only reason the forums are up in arms is because ArenaNet gave us an ETA a week ago. A week ago had they just said “soon” then people wouldn’t be complaining now.

What do you want, them to say “in a week” and then in a week if it’s not ready the forum can go on their immature tangent again?

It’ll be ready when it’s ready.

lack of communication, if they aren’t willing to break down and give periodic somewhat descriptive updates of where they are at and what is going on… then yeah being depressingly vague, tragically, seems to be a better play for them. It keeps hope in the air if they know they can’t do it in a timely manner.

If they separate premade and solo, with this player population, queues will become an issue again… Honestly, I don’t think there is any way to save gw2 spvp, leaderboards may make come back some players, but that’s about it.
No more than 10% of gw2 gamers play spvp, it’s a failure, a bad investment. If I were some kind of Arena.net boss i will do the same, keep promising and keep some dudes working on it, so this 10% of gamers stick around, atleast for some time, and anyways, they won’t probably leave, they endured months and months, they are true believers.

Baldric.6781:

If they separate premade and solo, with this player population, queues will become an issue again… Honestly, I don’t think there is any way to save gw2 spvp, leaderboards may make come back some players, but that’s about it.
No more than 10% of gw2 gamers play spvp, it’s a failure, a bad investment. If I were some kind of Arena.net boss i will do the same, keep promising and keep some dudes working on it, so this 10% of gamers stick around, atleast for some time, and anyways, they won’t probably leave, they endured months and months, they are true believers.

I’m starting to get that feeling too where Anet and NCSoft are trying to actually get rid of sPvP and focus solely on PvE and WvWvW. It would make sense that they would want to promote W3 as their sole PvP offering so that players have to PvE and grind in order to PvP. PvE is where all the money’s at.

SuperHaze.4210:

Baldric.6781:

If they separate premade and solo, with this player population, queues will become an issue again… Honestly, I don’t think there is any way to save gw2 spvp, leaderboards may make come back some players, but that’s about it.
No more than 10% of gw2 gamers play spvp, it’s a failure, a bad investment. If I were some kind of Arena.net boss i will do the same, keep promising and keep some dudes working on it, so this 10% of gamers stick around, atleast for some time, and anyways, they won’t probably leave, they endured months and months, they are true believers.

I’m starting to get that feeling too where Anet and NCSoft are trying to actually get rid of sPvP and focus solely on PvE and WvWvW. It would make sense that they would want to promote W3 as their sole PvP offering so that players have to PvE and grind in order to PvP. PvE is where all the money’s at.

It’s never in any business’ interest to intentionally force the market where they don’t want to go. It’s simply insane to suggest any company would intentionally dump on any meaningful percentage of its clients (and even if it were only 10%, that is a lot of possible revenue). They want more players, period. In all aspects of the game. People enjoying the game is what brings in revenue, not specific play styles.

I know it’s mostly overreaction and hyperbole, but for any of you who read this and really think ANET is “out to get” your preferred class or method of playing, you need to get a handle on your emotions and try using your noggin’.

we gonna host big tournaments aswell…