Progressing in leagues is more luck than anything else. The way you progress a tier is basically to get 5 consecutive matchups that are in your favor, then repeat until you’re in the next division. Divisioin 4-6 are even more luck-based, requiring a larger number of consecutive good matchups to move on.
Leagues are quite literally have nothing to do with how good you are at PvP, since all matches are aimed to give 50% ratio according to MMR.
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if we lose 100 games to lower win rate and MMR, then the system may attempt to match against against matches that we may have a better chance of winning?
Imagine the frustration when people reach the last pip of a division and then start a losing streak. Also losing 2 pips in one game for any reason is just awful.
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I literally cannot see progression when the matchups are so unbearably messed up. You basically need a team of mega ultra pro’s to even have a chance at winning (cough premade cough) and even then… Knowing this new system it’d probably REMOVE 1-2 pips due to WHATEVER nonsenic reason even if you WON the match.
Luck? There is no luck if The system works. And it does. If u are lösning alot u are just placed a little bit high. And maybe uu will never go higher then div 2. If u are bettet or good player and also have a good build for what u doing.( 1v1 capping, bunker, or support.) you will rise as in div.
I have i think (cant check 100%) 12-3 with solo/duo. Just write some tactics and help friends around The map. You can do alot as a solo player.
Luck? There is no luck if The system works. And it does. If u are lösning alot u are just placed a little bit high. And maybe uu will never go higher then div 2. If u are bettet or good player and also have a good build for what u doing.( 1v1 capping, bunker, or support.) you will rise as in div.
I have i think (cant check 100%) 12-3 with solo/duo. Just write some tactics and help friends around The map. You can do alot as a solo player.
If the system actually works right you won’t rise in division though. The matchmaking system tries to put you against equally skilled opponents, so if that works perfectly, your win rate would be 50/50.
To gain pips and rise in a division you have to win more than you lose though.
Yes ofc. Dunno what ANET think. Atleast when u are åt high mmr. It’s hard to get even higher. And better. So you wont rise. But for us “common” people, we can only get better and our winrate is over 50%. But i guess they will fix it soon enough.
Edit. They should have placement matcher. Like in CS. 5-10 matcher and u will be put in a league.
First I’ll be honnest i haven’t read all post so sry if I repeating something.
I just rly had to get this of my chest!
OP does not understand the first thing about the devision system and apparently as no feeling with engineering wath i can understand.
Let me explain:
You have an mmr to put yourself against more or less equal skilled opponents. This so that the game feels furfilling since stomping or getting stomped gets old fast.
If you are better then you current mmr (you belong on a better devision) you’ll win more then you lose hence you go up in devision. If you lose more you’re playng below your mmr and go down a devision.
Before i get flamed i understand this systel is flawed and hope next season we will have a starting devision based on where we ended up. This way the devisions will in time balance their self based on mmr, so that my above statement is right.
It’s clear. But problem still exist that IF you are really high in mmr. You are closer to 50% winrate and it’s hård to br any better. Then u will be stuck in div2. But IF you downgrade your mmr. And then play, or IF u just are a good player and have not Been playing much ranked before. You will maybe have 70% winrate to start with. And be in higher league even before The pros.
It’s clear. But problem still exist that IF you are really high in mmr. You are closer to 50% winrate and it’s hård to br any better. Then u will be stuck in div2. But IF you downgrade your mmr. And then play, or IF u just are a good player and have not Been playing much ranked before. You will maybe have 70% winrate to start with. And be in higher league even before The pros.
I must agree with you thatbthis is true and frustrating but it will only last a few seasons.
Plus look at it frol the side of those players kow rising to a devision above their capabilitys. They’ll demote thats even a worse fzeling then having to grind your way to legend ????
Nah go up in divisions does not mean you will face higher mmr then you have. Think of it like this.. All 500-800mmr fight in a “own division” and 800-1200 and so on. You can still be in legend division no matter IF u are pro or noob.
It’s REALLY silly that going up in divisions basically requires win streaks when the GAME itself tries to keep you from getting them.
Well said. They haven’t put any thought at all, no theorycrafting, nothing, in that kitten league. Laziest job ever for a company that allegedly want their game to be e-sport. Who the kitten are they kidding ?
Keeping the same matchmaking system, not even resetting MMR, complete lack of balance (power creep to the max), solo players vs premades, impossible lineups (saw 4 DH in same pug), no extra pips for win streak, even losing pips when you win matches as seen on Helseth’s stream, having to grind 130 pips for legendary…
It’s adding insult to injury on a stellar level…
I’m disappointed: the kittenstorm isn’t on par. Make it grow way bigger!
Balance team is a bunch of clowns, hurting the game to the full extent of their abilities.
It’s REALLY silly that going up in divisions basically requires win streaks when the GAME itself tries to keep you from getting them.
I can confirm this, the machmakig viciously attempts to force you in to a 50% win rate. Even going as far as putting 5 random players against a full guild group.
It’s REALLY silly that going up in divisions basically requires win streaks when the GAME itself tries to keep you from getting them.
Well said. They haven’t put any thought at all, no theorycrafting, nothing, in that kitten league. Laziest job ever for a company that allegedly want their game to be e-sport. Who the kitten are they kidding ?
Keeping the same matchmaking system, not even resetting MMR, complete lack of balance (power creep to the max), solo players vs premades, impossible lineups (saw 4 DH in same pug), no extra pips for win streak, even losing pips when you win matches as seen on Helseth’s stream, having to grind 130 pips for legendary…
It’s adding insult to injury on a stellar level…
I’m disappointed: the kittenstorm isn’t on par. Make it grow way bigger!
And the worst thing about all this is, that all of this could have been fixed and rectified before launch, if only they would do such things as actually beta-testing these features.
Let me explain:
You have an mmr to put yourself against more or less equal skilled opponents. This so that the game feels furfilling since stomping or getting stomped gets old fast.
If you are better then you current mmr (you belong on a better devision) you’ll win more then you lose hence you go up in devision. If you lose more you’re playng below your mmr and go down a devision.
Except your MMR appears to be completely separate from the league system, meaning two Emerald players can have very different MMR:s. The league divisions themselves do not in any way reflect player skill. And of course Anet didn’t even reset the MMR.
It’s just another noob-friendly grind-based system that lets everyone progress.
1) MMR tries to give you a 50% win-rate by matching you with similarily skilled players (in a broad sense as a team).
2) This means that to advance in a division you need to have greater than 50% win-rate (i.e., you generally beat out the other members of your division). 3) If you cannot attain higher than 50% win-rate, you belong in that division: you should not advance.
4) If two players with different MMR’s are in the same division, presumably they will be matched against a similar pool of players, and the better player will be able to advance through the division.
I don’t understand why people view the divisions as something to be grinded so you can advance as high as it can go…we’ll all find our place in the division that fits our skill level. It’s a tiered system that eventually will be a visual indicator of your MMR…and isn’t that what we’ve all been asking for for years?
Let me explain:
You have an mmr to put yourself against more or less equal skilled opponents. This so that the game feels furfilling since stomping or getting stomped gets old fast.
If you are better then you current mmr (you belong on a better devision) you’ll win more then you lose hence you go up in devision. If you lose more you’re playng below your mmr and go down a devision.
Except your MMR appears to be completely separate from the league system, meaning two Emerald players can have very different MMR:s. The league divisions themselves do not in any way reflect player skill. And of course Anet didn’t even reset the MMR.
It’s just another noob-friendly grind-based system that lets everyone progress.
I wouldn’t even call this system noob friendly. It is a completely unfriendly system. Needing to win within a rating system that wants to keep you at 50% and within a tier system that will punish you for not beating the system. It is like they want to put us in a twisted version of Sword Art Online to see if the human will can beat their pvp league.
1) MMR tries to give you a 50% win-rate by matching you with similarily skilled players (in a broad sense as a team).
2) This means that to advance in a division you need to have greater than 50% win-rate (i.e., you generally beat out the other members of your division). 3) If you cannot attain higher than 50% win-rate, you belong in that division: you should not advance.
4) If two players with different MMR’s are in the same division, presumably they will be matched against a similar pool of players, and the better player will be able to advance through the division.
I don’t understand why people view the divisions as something to be grinded so you can advance as high as it can go…we’ll all find our place in the division that fits our skill level. It’s a tiered system that eventually will be a visual indicator of your MMR…and isn’t that what we’ve all been asking for for years?
Just one thing. Pro with 3000mmr? Have 50% winrate tight? = cant advance, even from division 1-2. Normal player lets say 1500mmr.. Also at 50% winrate. The same there..
But, IF a pro player lower there mmr, to 1500, he will then have a winrate of 80% when he start play serious again. And by then adv in rank. Same with The “normal guy” with 1500mmr. He can also lower hos mmr to 700, and own “noobs”.. There is no skill in divisions, only manipulate The mmr and you will rise as much as anyone else.
1) MMR tries to give you a 50% win-rate by matching you with similarily skilled players (in a broad sense as a team).
2) This means that to advance in a division you need to have greater than 50% win-rate (i.e., you generally beat out the other members of your division). 3) If you cannot attain higher than 50% win-rate, you belong in that division: you should not advance.
4) If two players with different MMR’s are in the same division, presumably they will be matched against a similar pool of players, and the better player will be able to advance through the division.
I don’t understand why people view the divisions as something to be grinded so you can advance as high as it can go…we’ll all find our place in the division that fits our skill level. It’s a tiered system that eventually will be a visual indicator of your MMR…and isn’t that what we’ve all been asking for for years?
Just one thing. Pro with 3000mmr? Have 50% winrate tight? = cant advance, even from division 1-2. Normal player lets say 1500mmr.. Also at 50% winrate. The same there..
But, IF a pro player lower there mmr, to 1500, he will then have a winrate of 80% when he start play serious again. And by then adv in rank. Same with The “normal guy” with 1500mmr. He can also lower hos mmr to 700, and own “noobs”.. There is no skill in divisions, only manipulate The mmr and you will rise as much as anyone else.
1) That pro and normal player should match up if they are in the same league; the pro will advance in that case. Also, most “pro’s” have higher than 50% win-rate. Check out the older leaderboard—the really good players had win-rates between ~55-70%.
2) There has not yet been any evidence of this “league manipulation” technique actually working, just oodles of speculation and whining. One person posted it, and now its being repeated as the gospel, despite the huge lack of community understanding on how the MMR works numerically. Where is the data to support the idea?
4) If two players with different MMR’s are in the same division, presumably they will be matched against a similar pool of players, and the better player will be able to advance through the division.
That’s the thing though, they won’t be facing the same pool of players, which is why a lot of people are intentionally losing games to lower their MMR so they can progress. The MMR isn’t tied to the divisions.
So to clarify, a pro player and someone who just started doing ranked PvP will face vastly different opponents even if both are in the same league. It’s mind-boggingly stupid.
That’s the thing though, they won’t be facing the same pool of players, which is why a lot of people are intentionally losing games to lower their MMR so they can progress. The MMR isn’t tied to the divisions.
To quote myself: “There has not yet been any evidence of this “league manipulation” technique actually working, just oodles of speculation and whining. One person posted it, and now its being repeated as the gospel, despite the huge lack of community understanding on how the MMR works numerically. Where is the data to support the idea?”
So to clarify, a pro player and someone who just started doing ranked PvP will face vastly different opponents even if both are in the same league. It’s mind-boggingly stupid.
Fair enough. If the opposite were true, however, there would still be tons of complaints about the system about people being farmed. It’s hard to comment on how the current system will play out—it’s possible that it needs some equilibration timescale to get everyone sorted into the league/MMR bracket they belong to avoid the problem you are describing. Or not, who knows?
I’d have preferred it if they reset everyone’s MMR, tied MMR to the league system, and then let us play placement matches. The leagues were supposed to be a reflection of skill, but that’s impossible as long as MMR and league are separate.
This thing Helseth posted on Reddit pretty much sums it up:
“The fact that MMR is not tied to your placement in the league (meaning that the highest rated player in the world can be exactly the same place as the lowest rated player in the world) is absolute insanity. The MMR is supposed to put us at a 50% winratio so it gets increasingly more difficult as you win more games to climb the ladder. Problem is that a) ANET did not reset the mmr or put people in appropriate division for the MMR, meaning that top level players are already close to a 50% winratio matchup while being in the bottom and b) winstreaks arent factored for the division system while mmr is meaning that you’ll just get harder matches, longer times without any actual reward for doing better.”
This thing Helseth posted on Reddit pretty much sums it up:
“The fact that MMR is not tied to your placement in the league (meaning that the highest rated player in the world can be exactly the same place as the lowest rated player in the world) is absolute insanity. The MMR is supposed to put us at a 50% winratio so it gets increasingly more difficult as you win more games to climb the ladder. Problem is that a) ANET did not reset the mmr or put people in appropriate division for the MMR, meaning that top level players are already close to a 50% winratio matchup while being in the bottom and b) winstreaks arent factored for the division system while mmr is meaning that you’ll just get harder matches, longer times without any actual reward for doing better.”
Your average noob on this board doesn’t understand this. There is no kind of MMR capping for matchamking person if you solo queue as a high MMR player you will get multiple noobs on your team all the time. Having a high MMR doesn’t mean you will be grouped with or facing other good players.
This thing Helseth posted on Reddit pretty much sums it up:
“The fact that MMR is not tied to your placement in the league (meaning that the highest rated player in the world can be exactly the same place as the lowest rated player in the world) is absolute insanity. The MMR is supposed to put us at a 50% winratio so it gets increasingly more difficult as you win more games to climb the ladder. Problem is that a) ANET did not reset the mmr or put people in appropriate division for the MMR, meaning that top level players are already close to a 50% winratio matchup while being in the bottom and b) winstreaks arent factored for the division system while mmr is meaning that you’ll just get harder matches, longer times without any actual reward for doing better.”
This is 100% right. None of this can ever really work without some kind of MMR spread capping for matchmaking purposes. Right now based on who is available for matchmaking purposes in the queue if the highest MMR player in the world queued solo he could be matched with or against the lowest MMR player in the world eventually. Now that is an extreme case but in general bad and good players are in the same match all time or relative beginners and people with lots of experience. I have a feeling they refuse to put in a hard cap in MMR spread or matches with people “only within your division or MMR division” because queue times would sky rocket.
1) MMR tries to give you a 50% win-rate by matching you with similarily skilled players (in a broad sense as a team).
2) This means that to advance in a division you need to have greater than 50% win-rate (i.e., you generally beat out the other members of your division). 3) If you cannot attain higher than 50% win-rate, you belong in that division: you should not advance.
4) If two players with different MMR’s are in the same division, presumably they will be matched against a similar pool of players, and the better player will be able to advance through the division.
I don’t understand why people view the divisions as something to be grinded so you can advance as high as it can go…we’ll all find our place in the division that fits our skill level. It’s a tiered system that eventually will be a visual indicator of your MMR…and isn’t that what we’ve all been asking for for years?
Except the win rate of someone who solo queues for like 1000 games has nothing to do with personal skill. It depends on the luck of what players you get matched with and what players get put on the enemy team. These factors are entirely out of soloq players hands, and are in the control of a demonstrably flawed system. A system which has been proven to actively seek to give you unwinnable games until your w/l ratio approaches 50-60%.
There is also the problem that the new league mechanic is tied to tiered rewards that players are supposed to work towards.
