Guild Wars 2

If these notes are true, Devs please consider making spirits unbound a master trait not a grandmaster trait.

Julius.1094:

Darnis.4056:

Sometimes.. leaks aren’t actually leaks. but more like a means to satisfy a need to gauge the reactions of a fanbase… to avoid debacles like the recent microsoft thing..

I’m guessing that’s what happend here…
I think the reception of the notes has been mostly positive…
except a few BM rangers QQing.

Oh yeah this stinks of an intentional leak to share patch notes without “sharing” patch notes. I don’t know why bother.

Ah yes, well … it is conjecture.. just like the rest of the people posting, why not go after the people who are saying it’s leaked by testers who are under ULA ? :/

The notes seem legit, but they also seem outdated.
I think these might have been the notes from somewhere a couple of weeks ago, probably before they changed the name for the Necro’s 5 skill for DS.

AMAAAAAAAAZING!

plz be real!

Poxxia.1547:

You are aiming at BM here, and I agree with pets (cats mainly) doing silly dmg as BM. But … that is one pet in one trait, and at the expense of being an asset for team-fights.
But if this leak is true, they (rightfully?) diminished pets role, but “forgot” to compensate. I can’t see power-rangers being viable, and even if I agree with shortbow having a range-decrease, it is going to affect weapon-choice in a negative way when it comes to the secondary set.
Nice to see the buffs for spirits, but are they going to be viable with all the AoE still floating around?

i agree with this. BM ranger does needs to be balanced better but let’s also keep in mind BM ranger is the only viable build right now. there are no other good builds for rangers and things are gonna get worse if this patch note is true.

kai.4629:

i agree with this. BM ranger does needs to be balanced better but let’s also keep in mind BM ranger is the only viable build right now. there are no other good builds for rangers and things are gonna get worse if this patch note is true.

What happened to traps?

Nikkle.4013:

kai.4629:

i agree with this. BM ranger does needs to be balanced better but let’s also keep in mind BM ranger is the only viable build right now. there are no other good builds for rangers and things are gonna get worse if this patch note is true.

What happened to traps?

nothing…
so bad joke, no more builds for ranger
just nerfs and dont need buffs which whould change nothing…

well maybe its not the finished patch notes, i hope

i use to play ranger for pvp since releace i v tried bm ones a couple of mounths ago just for 2-3 maches and thats it good for 1v1 only not even close to bunker like guardian on 2vs1 bm can die in seconds and in 2v2 bm can’t suport ally and when they ignore me i become complitily useless, stuck on a point doing nothing… thats a viable build? of course it is if you play at 90%- where most ppls keep atking bms point. of course spirits are useless now but traper and zerker ranger is way better for team fights and tpvp than bm, just l2p and stop faceroll.

i agree most about you write at bm ranger

but never with trapper ranger and zerker ranger are good builds and just a l2p
problem

trapper is never stronger or even same strong as hgh engi or bomb engi…
so there is never a reason to take trapper ranger back in team

and zerker ranger is a not much single target dmg with low survive build.
why should take this ranger when the team have mesmer, ele and thief? Oo

as soon the enemy team see a zerker ranger there, you will go first target and instand die all the time.
only l2p what you can do there is use dodges right when ele is start to attack you
and to cry on ts “ele on me, need help”^^

i dont have problem with my rangers zerk build for long time.
about survivability i run 30/30/0/10/0 with shortbow and greatsword, i have block from gs4, evade and stun brake from lighting reflexes, evade from sb3, absorbe dmg from signet of stone, 2x stun/daze 1,5sec from gs5 and sb5 and a very good over time heal of troll unfuent.
about dmg now my crossfire piere targers for 900-1100 average and swoop+hilt bash+maul is more than 8k + pet hits thats is a bit op now but is not my main dps cos most of the time pet running around slowed doing nothink. the only problem i have some times is vs condi builds. it’s a hard build i know but it’s working trust me :-) you need good timing on ccs cos moment of clarity+maul is realy good!!!

There’s no way these patch notes can be complete when you step back and look at things on a macro level.

Right now…both a ranger and mesmer have far too much damage being done by artificial intelligence…yet only the ranger is being nerfed (plus their main weapon is being nerfed too).

I’m all for the ranger changes, but there is no way that mesmers are weaker than rangers right now enough to warrant the big discrepancy in nerfs.

We have to be missing something because mesmer “pets” do just as damage (if not more) than ranger pets…they are harder to avoid…and they have better AI and range. They aren’t as survivable, but they are so easy to respawn and sheer numbers of them makes their current survivability already excessive.

SPESHAL.9106:

There’s no way these patch notes can be complete when you step back and look at things on a macro level.

Right now…both a ranger and mesmer have far too much damage being done by artificial intelligence…yet only the ranger is being nerfed (plus their main weapon is being nerfed too).

I’m all for the ranger changes, but there is no way that mesmers are weaker than rangers right now enough to warrant the big discrepancy in nerfs.

We have to be missing something because mesmer “pets” do just as damage (if not more) than ranger pets…they are harder to avoid…and they have better AI and range. They aren’t as survivable, but they are so easy to respawn and sheer numbers of them makes their current survivability already excessive.

Ranger pets:
1. Attack more often then phantasms.
2. Are not the rangers only source of direct damage (traps, short bow, great conditions)
3. Are more survivable.

Mesmer “Pets”
1. Die to a sneeze.
2. Have a slow attack pattern
3. Can have their summons easily/blinded/obstructed/invulned negating an entire chain of attack damage.
4. Outside of shatters (which are good but when shatters are good phantasms are meh) our summons our the only real source of direct damage we have.

this update looks thick. solid. tight.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Thief changes are just so ridiculous. There are nerfs to abilities that haven’t even seen complaints. These have to be fake, or Anet think’s nerfing will make worthless builds viable.

I believe they’re stupid enough to do just that. =] Look how amazingly well their not even 1 year old “gem” is doing.

HPLT.7132:

Copied from the rangers forum:

http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9ps

I wanna see a Ranger on next SOTG because if these patch notes are true it will kill this class. Dev’s you should start to hire high ranked players instead of family members for balancing.

That is called balanced. The devs don’t need to hire from their ‘family members’ to realize the ranger was OP. I guess people have to adjust their play style or practice more.

jportell.2197:

Ranger pets:
1. Attack more often then phantasms.
2. Are not the rangers only source of direct damage (traps, short bow, great conditions)
3. Are more survivable.

Mesmer “Pets”
1. Die to a sneeze.
2. Have a slow attack pattern
3. Can have their summons easily/blinded/obstructed/invulned negating an entire chain of attack damage.
4. Outside of shatters (which are good but when shatters are good phantasms are meh) our summons our the only real source of direct damage we have.

LOL…You think 1 ranger pet attacks more than mesmer summons AND that it’s easier to avoid damage from mesmer summons than 1 single ranger pet.

Either you are delusional or have absolutely no idea how easy it is to strafe properly and avoid almost 100% of ranger pet damage. Have you even looked at the cast times of ranger pet abilities or are you just blindly spouting anything in a post that will support your warped opinion?

Also…when you say “entire chain of attack”…are you referring to the obscene damage that can be done if you don’t have a defensive cooldown available to avoid it???

Every other class like warriors and thieves with similarly excessive burst got nerfed, but mesmer’s burst remains AND it’s all done by artificial intelligence…just awful design for any game trying to be an e-sport.

SPESHAL.9106:

jportell.2197:

Ranger pets:
1. Attack more often then phantasms.
2. Are not the rangers only source of direct damage (traps, short bow, great conditions)
3. Are more survivable.

Mesmer “Pets”
1. Die to a sneeze.
2. Have a slow attack pattern
3. Can have their summons easily/blinded/obstructed/invulned negating an entire chain of attack damage.
4. Outside of shatters (which are good but when shatters are good phantasms are meh) our summons our the only real source of direct damage we have.

LOL…You think 1 ranger pet attacks more than mesmer summons AND that it’s easier to avoid damage from mesmer summons than 1 single ranger pet.

Either you are delusional or have absolutely no idea how easy it is to strafe properly and avoid almost 100% of ranger pet damage. Have you even looked at the cast times of ranger pet abilities or are you just blindly spouting anything in a post that will support your warped opinion?

Also…when you say “entire chain of attack”…are you referring to the obscene damage that can be done if you don’t have a defensive cooldown available to avoid it???

Every other class like warriors and thieves with similarly excessive burst got nerfed, but mesmer’s burst remains AND it’s all done by artificial intelligence…just awful design for any game trying to be an e-sport.

If you mean our clones then yeah ranger pets may not attack as often but if you want to refer to phantasms:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Haste
Ranger pets (I know I have one attack at about the same speed as auto attack chains for most classes) Mesmer phantasms have a recharge on each of their attacks and its usually pretty long iSwordsman being the shortest amount of time between attacks.
Also our clones do NOOO damage so their auto attacks are kind of eh at best for inheriting the bonuses we get from auto attacks.

Another thing about ranger pets usually especially if you are facing a shortbow and or trap ranger then there is going to be some periods where you are stuck eating that pets damage thanks to either cripple/chill/immob. Some pets attacks are harder to avoid like the eagle attacks just d/t them being smaller and having less obvious attacks. Pretty much what this nerf to pet damage is going to do is make it so that BM builds are no longer tanky and damaging. You should never be able to fill both roles at once no matter what class you play.

traps are actually viable – just not the standard rabid + 3 traps + entangle + TU and sword/torch stuff.

Just like a warrior, thief, people don’t like to be killed by a ranger. Ranger is (was) good, but if you talk about OP, mesmer or engi always comes into mind. In a team fight AOE is a lot more important then hitting single targets. Rangers can only hit a single target and have little AOE, which makes them overall balanced. I do agree that on 1 vs 1 rangers are the best class out there. Do they need a nerf? Yes some pet skillz do, like the raven. But overall, no, they are just fine.

Hector.6950:

Just like a warrior, thief, people don’t like to be killed by a ranger. Ranger is (was) good, but if you talk about OP, mesmer or engi always comes into mind. In a team fight AOE is a lot more important then hitting single targets. Rangers can only hit a single target and have little AOE, which makes them overall balanced. I do agree that on 1 vs 1 rangers are the best class out there. Do they need a nerf? Yes some pet skillz do, like the raven. But overall, no, they are just fine.

Did you just say mesmer and AOE? Lol.

jportell.2197:

Hector.6950:

Just like a warrior, thief, people don’t like to be killed by a ranger. Ranger is (was) good, but if you talk about OP, mesmer or engi always comes into mind. In a team fight AOE is a lot more important then hitting single targets. Rangers can only hit a single target and have little AOE, which makes them overall balanced. I do agree that on 1 vs 1 rangers are the best class out there. Do they need a nerf? Yes some pet skillz do, like the raven. But overall, no, they are just fine.

Did you just say mesmer and AOE? Lol.

I have played many games with a mesmer and i do a lot of AOE.

Hector.6950:

jportell.2197:

Hector.6950:

Just like a warrior, thief, people don’t like to be killed by a ranger. Ranger is (was) good, but if you talk about OP, mesmer or engi always comes into mind. In a team fight AOE is a lot more important then hitting single targets. Rangers can only hit a single target and have little AOE, which makes them overall balanced. I do agree that on 1 vs 1 rangers are the best class out there. Do they need a nerf? Yes some pet skillz do, like the raven. But overall, no, they are just fine.

Did you just say mesmer and AOE? Lol.

I have played many games with a mesmer and i do a lot of AOE.

Only with mindwrack (not as good AOE as say whirling wrath/Thief Clusterbomb spam/Anyform of necro/Trap ranger/Engi) When it comes to tagging and doing reliable consistent AOE damage. Mesmer is bottom of the barrel. Chaos storm Doesn’t do good AOE damage iWarden just stands there and iZerker is bugged.

I play ranger and I’m not bugged by the pets nerf. The problem is that it is a flat out DPS nerf on the ranger because they are not putting that damage back in the ranger (something a lot of rangers would appreciate). This would tone down BM bunkers and buff power rangers, opening some new build options and making a lot of people happy. I want to try a power based ranger, I want to be able to use longbow in sPvP, I want the option to choose between a pet that supports me or a pet that needs my support (and probably would go with the first one), but the straight DPS nerf (a field in which the ranger does not excel) won’t make this. If pet damage is being nerfed, then skills multipliers and base damage of the skills should be checked.

Havoc

Uhm, no, just no. Cleansing Ire is practically worthless, since it only removes conditions when adrenaline is spent. Adrenaline is only spent when a burst skill connects, so blinds and aegis will totally prevent the cleanse, as will most cases of chill/cripple plus kiting to prevent melee range burst connects. Weakness and Confusion will also still affect the burst meant to remove them. Blocking skills will likewise prevent the coniton removal. The heal cd’s are still too high for the amount of healing, as is the cd on Endure Pain. They also nerfed the warriors ability to used adrenaline as a passive damage gain.
Really nice changes? Only if you’re fighting a warrior.

idk which build you play but with a hammer support build i connect every single burst skill, you just have to deal with blind properly (bind cancel attack for example) and you can’t miss it with the leap. It’s easier for a longbow warrior and they are no other pseudo viable build atm so. Besides i mentionned Berseker Stance too wich is kinda a 4sec (maybe more if traited ?) immunity to condition and it can also affects conditions you already have on you i think so it can be nice.

Anyways they understood warrior needed more survability and they made changes in that way and that’s very good

They didn’t do crap to our survivability.

Healing Signet even after changes is poor and does not fix its problem. The signet is meant to have a very powerful passive and active, but with a very long cool-down, used only as an emergency, look at my picture below to see how stupid it is now.

Adrenal Health should of simply been an 8k-12k heal that gives you 30 adrenaline. Requiring us to have a set of adrenaline simply puts MORE “Oh you use this and your punished” that other classes don’t even have, What other class gets so punished like this? None. Thieves have a heal that simply stealths them and gives them regeneration.. what if it did less if they had less initiative… What if Necromancer heals healed less if they had less lifeforce? Its a stupid mechanic.

Mending should remove all conditions and heal for each one, or have its cool-down lowered to 15 seconds to fill the active gap Healing Signet had, because it would be a much better “active heal” and fill in that spot, where Healing Signet should be the passive.

The changes are not sustain either, none of these increase our ability to stay in the fight, healing signet is a now a total joke not even Kefka would find humorous.

Just wen I though that balance was just a couple of patches away, they diside to mess every thing up again…
When i stoped playing I though I would have comeback to the game at by now but actually I don’t think this will happen this year…

Healing signet would be good with 8-10k active heal that was also a stunbreak on a 40 second cooldown. Passive could be improved by leaving basic passive heal as it is, but improving healing power scaling so that it would effectively double at ~1300 healing power (currently 1000 healing power gives you 30 hp/sec on top of 200 hp/sec base).

Healing Surge: 25 second cooldown, 30 bars of adrenaline, 10 stacks of might and 1 stack of fury for 8 seconds. 8k heal regardless of circumstances.

Mending: 15 second cooldown. Removes crippled, chilled, immobilized. Removes 3 other conditions (other than crippled, chilled, immobilized). 6k heal.

Mpratisn.7249:

i dont have problem with my rangers zerk build for long time.
about survivability i run 30/30/0/10/0 with shortbow and greatsword, i have block from gs4, evade and stun brake from lighting reflexes, evade from sb3, absorbe dmg from signet of stone, 2x stun/daze 1,5sec from gs5 and sb5 and a very good over time heal of troll unfuent.
about dmg now my crossfire piere targers for 900-1100 average and swoop+hilt bash+maul is more than 8k + pet hits thats is a bit op now but is not my main dps cos most of the time pet running around slowed doing nothink. the only problem i have some times is vs condi builds. it’s a hard build i know but it’s working trust me :-) you need good timing on ccs cos moment of clarity+maul is realy good!!!

Sorry but its not a L2P issue…Maybe you will survive in Hotjoin because everyone is dumb enough not to focus you but I am tired that some r30-40 thinks they know how the game works. I really want to see your sustain when you get focused by Mesmer and S/D thief…I promise you die in seconds due to your amazing 800-1000 toughness.
As Oidmetalla said there are better options you could bring in than a zerker ranger and after patch there will be better options than a ranger (2x engis, necro+engi, etc.)

XII.9401:

That is called balanced. The devs don’t need to hire from their ‘family members’ to realize the ranger was OP. I guess people have to adjust their play style or practice more.

This build was never OP when it comes to tPVP, people just didnt know how to deal with it. Ranger on Close point? OMG my poor def ele cant get the point anymore. Ranger invades far point? OMG poor Mesmer died. However thats not the meta in upper tPVP anymore. Today the teams just outplay you very quickly with 2 people and cap the point. After that a Bomb Engi or Ele (even Valkyre) just delay your actions because you have NO CC, I mean really no CC. So you start to join a fight but you are subpar compared to engis or eles because even your group support is worse. Worst case would be thiefs start to decap your close point because BM Rangers like all Bunkers cannot kill him – and because this build dont use stealth, you cant decap the point when he is playing smart.
Again only because you die in hot join to this build in 1vs1 or you cant kill fast, doesnt make it OP. The CC is kitten, the support is kitten. And upper tpvp is about teamplay and now engis are very common due to their amazing CC (at least bomb engi), downed control and hillarious condition spam. While for example a trapper has spike conditions a engi just face rolling over the keyboard and still would be able to kill a guard in a short time frame. In addition the burning from engis is ticking higher than from rangers and engineers can cover it with kitten conditions, so that a guard has to use at least 2 shouts to remove it due to the kitten rank system of conditions – Arenanet! Burning has to be higher priority! Make the system damage based …. but o’wait than also trapper would be kitten…

Battosai.5620:

traps are actually viable – just not the standard rabid + 3 traps + entangle + TU and sword/torch stuff.

I have quite a lot respect on your opinion but there is a difference between viable and worth to pick. I played trapper (sb+sword/dagger+3 traps+hs+entangle/spirit) when BM was already Meta…however these desperate tries to make BM less strong also affected trapper pretty heavily. First it was affected by haste nerf – Now, with the next patch it will not have any haste+ reduced shortbow range+ reduced pet damage+reduced pet range+ no save stomping capability. Tell me in which world this build is superior compared to bomb engis? Also you cant just exchange the traps…poison trap -> essentially for downed control , burning trap -> your main damage, spike trap-> Without you will have less cc and might get chased heavily (then also lightning reflexes will not help much).
They want to increase build diversity, however for rangers they killed all possibilities to do anything different from 0/0/30/X/X. And these ridiculous longbow (really projectile speed? This thing is so kittening slow and clunky….) and spirit (They bring no substantial group support which would be worth risking to bring them AND they will still die in seconds – 360 range for such a kittenty spirit sorry these things need a complete overhaul like they promised for this patch.)

With every kittening patch the balance in this game gets worse in my eyes! They just should reset this game to release day! There it was best! And the ranger nerfs if they should be true just show us that Anet is to stupid to understand their own classes!

I really think that if the notes were fake, they would’ve made a statement about it by now, the complete inaction from the devs about the leaking is really odd.

Clostridius.2415:

With every kittening patch the balance in this game gets worse in my eyes! They just should reset this game to release day! There it was best! And the ranger nerfs if they should be true just show us that Anet is to stupid to understand their own classes!

The game is seeing its best most balanced state since launch….this next patch if those notes are real will be the biggest shake up to happen to pvp since launch too. All moving in the right direction….if you think the game’s balance has been worsening then you profession is getting nerfed or with all due respect…your not that skilled.

Clostridius.2415:

With every kittening patch the balance in this game gets worse in my eyes! They just should reset this game to release day! There it was best! And the ranger nerfs if they should be true just show us that Anet is to stupid to understand their own classes!

Funny. Judging from what you just said, leads me to one simple conclusion. At launch and all the way until now, you have been mostly playing Thief, Guardian and Mesmer because they were strong classes, and never cared much about how kitten Warrior, Necro and Ranger were.

I on the other hand have been playing Warrior (60% of all my games), Necro, Ranger and Engineer and I can tell you, release point balance was bad. More than 60% of all my games would have been with Warrior if the class wasn’t so unwelcome in tPvP games.

So if these balance notes are true, I think this is a nice patch. I can’t speak for all the classes tho, because I don’t know all the classes well enough to judge. Especially not the ones that were the most powerful up until now, because I never play OP classes.

Yeah, that’s just how cool I am.

I also have a beard IRL. A big manly beard. And a lot of chest hair. A lot.

Defyx.3956:

idk which build you play but with a hammer support build i connect every single burst skill, you just have to deal with blind properly (bind cancel attack for example) and you can’t miss it with the leap. It’s easier for a longbow warrior and they are no other pseudo viable build atm so. Besides i mentionned Berseker Stance too wich is kinda a 4sec (maybe more if traited ?) immunity to condition and it can also affects conditions you already have on you i think so it can be nice.

Anyways they understood warrior needed more survability and they made changes in that way and that’s very good

If you connect every single burst with a hammer then you’ve only played against people that haven’t figured out what a dodge is. The hammer’s burst skill is telegraphed, slow, and predictable as hell. It is one of the most easily dodgable skills on the warriors bar.

So.., according to you, we have to play against nubs, have a cancel keybound (to deal with blinds), make certain we are not crippled or chilled (so the leap won’t miss), and have Berserkers Stance active so that we can remove conditions. Maybe we should make it more challenging – like we have to be hopping on one foot when we do it? Have you even noticed that your method for dealing with conditions is ineffective against blind, chilled and cripple (that is to say against conditions)?

Really?

without my entire build u can’t know how i deal with conditions and cancel is just one of several ways to deal with it but anyway every body know conditions are warrior nemesis so i don’t see your point. And ofc i miss some earthshaker but there are many ways to ensure that it wont miss (land it at the end of a dodge for example, if he double dodges it’s ofc good for you). Seriously idk what you were expecting but considering what they have given to warrior since the quickness nerf, this is a nice patch note. And i don’t see how my method is (or rather could be coz the patch isn’t out yet….) ineffective against chilled and cripple coz berseker stance and cleasing ire are meant to work with all conditions.

Again everything i said was just a simple feeling i get about this patch note coz without actually testing these changes u can’t assert anything

Zanthrax.6538:

Clostridius.2415:

With every kittening patch the balance in this game gets worse in my eyes! They just should reset this game to release day! There it was best! And the ranger nerfs if they should be true just show us that Anet is to stupid to understand their own classes!

The game is seeing its best most balanced state since launch….this next patch if those notes are real will be the biggest shake up to happen to pvp since launch too. All moving in the right direction….if you think the game’s balance has been worsening then you profession is getting nerfed or with all due respect…your not that skilled.

+1

I am pretty pleased at these patch notes and they seem legit. I am looking forward to trying a staff air build on my elementalist. Gust was buffed to hit more than one target, and if air attunement skills get recharged on critical hit then I will be shooting gusts of wind at everybody and static fields left and right! Tornado having a shorter cooldown is a welcomed change as I like to use it in tournies occasionally for the knockback. Also a lot of staff abilities got their cast time reduced as well as the aftercast being shorter. Should help with damage issues that staff has.

Looking forward to this patch, only upsetting thing is the water trait that gives 2% damage per boon will now be 1%. I suppose this is being done to nerf bunker damage slightly. Oh well, no big deal

piffdaddy.8014:

… and if air attunement skills get recharged on critical hit then I will be shooting gusts of wind at everybody and static fields left and right!

Wrong! that would be so freaking OP, fresh air will just reset air attunement cd, not skills cd.

cuge.5398:

piffdaddy.8014:

… and if air attunement skills get recharged on critical hit then I will be shooting gusts of wind at everybody and static fields left and right!

Wrong! that would be so freaking OP, fresh air will just reset air attunement cd, not skills cd.

Would it though? Going 30 into air means you will have to either give up extra healing/hp from water traits or sacrifice attunement recharge rate/buffs from arcane traits. Eles only have 10k base hp in spvp without water traits. If it recharged skills it would make a staff dps build very viable. You are probably right that it will only be the attunement and not skills. Still, an extra lighting strike that you get from switching to air with the minor trait could add some nice dps.

It’s like Anet is trying to actively discourage people from playing Rangers.

Edit: If these rumors are true, at least.

HPLT.7132:

Battosai.5620:

traps are actually viable – just not the standard rabid + 3 traps + entangle + TU and sword/torch stuff.

I have quite a lot respect on your opinion but there is a difference between viable and worth to pick. I played trapper (sb+sword/dagger+3 traps+hs+entangle/spirit) when BM was already Meta…however these desperate tries to make BM less strong also affected trapper pretty heavily. First it was affected by haste nerf – Now, with the next patch it will not have any haste+ reduced shortbow range+ reduced pet damage+reduced pet range+ no save stomping capability. Tell me in which world this build is superior compared to bomb engis? Also you cant just exchange the traps…poison trap -> essentially for downed control , burning trap -> your main damage, spike trap-> Without you will have less cc and might get chased heavily (then also lightning reflexes will not help much).
They want to increase build diversity, however for rangers they killed all possibilities to do anything different from 0/0/30/X/X. And these ridiculous longbow (really projectile speed? This thing is so kittening slow and clunky….) and spirit (They bring no substantial group support which would be worth risking to bring them AND they will still die in seconds – 360 range for such a kittenty spirit sorry these things need a complete overhaul like they promised for this patch.)

first of all bm rangers had a too low skillfloor, thus not much was needed for it to be effective – same thing applies to other builds atm, its not just a ranger specific issue.
the trapper build you mentioned above is indeed not stronger than an engineer – the thing though is, that people try to force the ranger into a certain role that doesn’t really fit him, thus only making use of barely half ot the potential it has, if even.
the only thing the range nerf on sb will really hurt is chasing down fleeing targets – it never did really good pressure on maximum range in pvp anyway as it is more of a skirmishing weapon and flanking gets easier.
the ranger is a great harrasser, he can easily put pressure on a main dps like ele/mesmer/thief using control pets to help out his teammates or the traps for down pressure if you coordinate it right, thus taking a lot of pressure from your teammates as one of the opposing dps is focused on surviving.
also mobility wise the ranger is really strong – thing is with that build, that it basically can do everything decently well but it will always get outshined by a more specialized build in that specific role. the rangers greatest strength imo is adaptability and versatility, given that you could argue that a bomb engi is more versatile at the moment.
i’d like them to give the player more active control over the pets movement and their respective abilities – make it function like a kit or change f1 – f4 to pet abilities and have the control for it elsewhere, would make rangers that much more powerful while increasing the skillfloor on most of the builds.
a well played trap ranger offers quite a lot to the team, it’s not as easy to do well as it is on bm though.
i’m glad the fotm guys will vanish and bm ranger will actually still be a decent build, while not being that mandatory anymore. furthermore the ranger gets pretty much forced 30 pts into wilderness survival right now as well as it is our strongest traitline by far.

BM will still be strong, just unable to win 1v1 so easily due to high pressure pets provide. Biggest nerf to it is probably reduced pet range, taking away the advantage of being in 2 places at once (destroying gates/trebs, aiding fights on mid while still watching your point).

Warrior notes are kinda… disturbing. On one hand moving best dps traits to 30p is gonna seriously hurt damage. On the other hand, if you wanted to go for new 20p defense trait, you wouldn’t get much use of them since you’ll probably be spending adrenaline all the time to get rid of conditions… Gotta wait and see how it turns out, bit I have a feeling Warriors still won’t be picked for tourney teams. At least it seems they managed to make Necro viable now.

Overall notes seem legit but kinda unfinished, some things are obviously missing, like new Warrior Sword #3 skill. Probably from one of the earlier builds.

Harrier.9380:

Overall notes seem legit but kinda unfinished, some things are obviously missing, like new Warrior Sword #3 skill. Probably from one of the earlier builds.

"Final Thrust: This skill has been moved to slot #3. Now does more damage and extra damage vs foes below 50%.
Hamstring: This skill has been moved to the end of the skill chain. Cripple reduced to 1s.
Savage Leap: This skill now applies 3s of cripple."

Final Thrust is currently the third combo chain of autoattack, it’s simply swapped with Hamstring in the patch release.

Demosthene.2195:

“Final Thrust: This skill has been moved to slot #3. Now does more damage and extra damage vs foes below 50%.
Hamstring: This skill has been moved to the end of the skill chain. Cripple reduced to 1s.
Savage Leap: This skill now applies 3s of cripple.”

Final Thrust is currently the third combo chain of autoattack, it’s simply swapped with Hamstring in the patch release.

Ah, missed this one, thanks.

This actually makes sword kinda sexy… just wondering what the CD will be. Probably 8-10s.

On the other hand if Hamstring damage is left as it is, auto chain damage will be much lower…

Harrier.9380:

On the other hand if Hamstring damage is left as it is, auto chain damage will be much lower...

Not necessarily.

I believe the altered damage and cast times were withhold from these "quick notes", and actual patch notes will be more descriptive. Personally I cringe every time I land Final Thrust on my sword, because it has no bleeds and it’s physical damage has lower dps than quick sever-gash, 2-hit combo.

Final Thrust’s crit on power-crit build might appear impressive in numbers, but the slow wind-up for the strike and absolutely cripping aftercast ruin all the joy of using it in the long run.

My staple tournament build is Sword/Shield + GS Warrior focused on mobility, as soon as I hit sever-gash on running opponent I usually follow up with hamstring and then wait for an opportune moment to switch weapon if blocking or stun is of no immediate concern. Maintaining a 3-strike sword combo is both impractical in design, and hazardous to dps/pressure you dish out.

Battosai.5620:

first of all bm rangers had a too low skillfloor, thus not much was needed for it to be effective – same thing applies to other builds atm, its not just a ranger specific issue.
the trapper build you mentioned above is indeed not stronger than an engineer – the thing though is, that people try to force the ranger into a certain role that doesn’t really fit him, thus only making use of barely half ot the potential it has, if even.
the only thing the range nerf on sb will really hurt is chasing down fleeing targets – it never did really good pressure on maximum range in pvp anyway as it is more of a skirmishing weapon and flanking gets easier.
the ranger is a great harrasser, he can easily put pressure on a main dps like ele/mesmer/thief using control pets to help out his teammates or the traps for down pressure if you coordinate it right, thus taking a lot of pressure from your teammates as one of the opposing dps is focused on surviving.
also mobility wise the ranger is really strong – thing is with that build, that it basically can do everything decently well but it will always get outshined by a more specialized build in that specific role. the rangers greatest strength imo is adaptability and versatility, given that you could argue that a bomb engi is more versatile at the moment.
i’d like them to give the player more active control over the pets movement and their respective abilities – make it function like a kit or change f1 – f4 to pet abilities and have the control for it elsewhere, would make rangers that much more powerful while increasing the skillfloor on most of the builds.
a well played trap ranger offers quite a lot to the team, it’s not as easy to do well as it is on bm though.
i’m glad the fotm guys will vanish and bm ranger will actually still be a decent build, while not being that mandatory anymore. furthermore the ranger gets pretty much forced 30 pts into wilderness survival right now as well as it is our strongest traitline by far.

I agree that BM was too powerful for some situations and despite I played this build quite a lot of time it was always boring. On lower level you are right the skill floor was very low, however there were some very decent BM rangers – which were able to kill another ranger just through right timing of skills and pet skills. This skill floor increased with introduction of the latest pets due to viability of drakes.
I agree that rangers are pushed into one specific build with 1 specific role: The lone ranger who always either invades far point or defend close point. I also want to see more versatility, however as you have mentioned we always have to trait 30 in wilderness survival, a defensive trait line because otherwise we are susceptible to spike damage AND conditions. As long as they dont overhaul the complete trait distribution the ranger will never be a offensive supporter. Best example is that trap traits are located in a crit damage tree.
I would also like to have more control over pet skills but this wish was always ignored consistently by Arenanet. But this will not help the ranger, it will just increase the skill cap. Pet abilities always have a delay and despite from spiders the pets dont have alot of CC. Just 1 fear on 45 sec CD. In the past rangers have to be strong 1vs1 just because he do not provide anything apart from that. Now the 1vs1 build gets weakend without compensation while engis, another strong 1vs1 class due to extremly high burning uptime, condition spamming and ridiculous Elite (The CD has to be increased definitely!), amlost stays untouched (Ok Elixir R is no Stunbreaker more…). Also Engis have access to so much CC – which also makes them viable in group fights. Its just that ranger is so much inferior compared to this – Also in Rangers special event condition pressure. After patch pistol and short bow will have same range – But Engis can apply burning, confusion and poison, which will pressure the fleeing target much more than just bleeding stacks (because again burning can be covered).
It might see like alot of Engi QQ. However in current meta they get somehow annoying and there is a reason why so much teams reinforced there setup with engis. In my opinion both classes should fullfil the same role but the balance between ranger and engi is quite broken – at least after patch. I dont blame engi’s, I blame Arenanet for not providing test servers and bad communication.

Battosai.5620:

HPLT.7132:

Battosai.5620:

traps are actually viable – just not the standard rabid + 3 traps + entangle + TU and sword/torch stuff.

I have quite a lot respect on your opinion but there is a difference between viable and worth to pick. I played trapper (sb+sword/dagger+3 traps+hs+entangle/spirit) when BM was already Meta…however these desperate tries to make BM less strong also affected trapper pretty heavily. First it was affected by haste nerf – Now, with the next patch it will not have any haste+ reduced shortbow range+ reduced pet damage+reduced pet range+ no save stomping capability. Tell me in which world this build is superior compared to bomb engis? Also you cant just exchange the traps…poison trap -> essentially for downed control , burning trap -> your main damage, spike trap-> Without you will have less cc and might get chased heavily (then also lightning reflexes will not help much).
They want to increase build diversity, however for rangers they killed all possibilities to do anything different from 0/0/30/X/X. And these ridiculous longbow (really projectile speed? This thing is so kittening slow and clunky….) and spirit (They bring no substantial group support which would be worth risking to bring them AND they will still die in seconds – 360 range for such a kittenty spirit sorry these things need a complete overhaul like they promised for this patch.)

first of all bm rangers had a too low skillfloor, thus not much was needed for it to be effective – same thing applies to other builds atm, its not just a ranger specific issue.
the trapper build you mentioned above is indeed not stronger than an engineer – the thing though is, that people try to force the ranger into a certain role that doesn’t really fit him, thus only making use of barely half ot the potential it has, if even.
the only thing the range nerf on sb will really hurt is chasing down fleeing targets – it never did really good pressure on maximum range in pvp anyway as it is more of a skirmishing weapon and flanking gets easier.
the ranger is a great harrasser, he can easily put pressure on a main dps like ele/mesmer/thief using control pets to help out his teammates or the traps for down pressure if you coordinate it right, thus taking a lot of pressure from your teammates as one of the opposing dps is focused on surviving.
also mobility wise the ranger is really strong – thing is with that build, that it basically can do everything decently well but it will always get outshined by a more specialized build in that specific role. the rangers greatest strength imo is adaptability and versatility, given that you could argue that a bomb engi is more versatile at the moment.
i’d like them to give the player more active control over the pets movement and their respective abilities – make it function like a kit or change f1 – f4 to pet abilities and have the control for it elsewhere, would make rangers that much more powerful while increasing the skillfloor on most of the builds.
a well played trap ranger offers quite a lot to the team, it’s not as easy to do well as it is on bm though.
i’m glad the fotm guys will vanish and bm ranger will actually still be a decent build, while not being that mandatory anymore. furthermore the ranger gets pretty much forced 30 pts into wilderness survival right now as well as it is our strongest traitline by far.

+1, agreed on everything.

Honestly IMO good patch or bad patch this is the biggest meta changing update since release presuming this is real. I want more of this!!! Yeah ok ‘maybe’ some things will end up OP and other things will end up UP but that’s how the Meta is >> unless your rolling the top of your field in a situation or if you found a niche that works against average players there’s always going to be that state of imbalance that makes this a team game.

My opinions of OP being towards “something that pretty much won’t die unless the player is completely inept, then proceeds to easily outlast and kill his foe” <- in the context of a skill based game

And this patch may or may not address that or anyone else’s opinion of OP, but a lot is being given to us, and a lot of work has gone into this. This is the patch we wanted since before April. I am pretty much ready to set aside my indignation towards all the second rate citizen scrubby pushes we’ve been getting if this is what has been getting built up!

(If we get a dumb scrubby push again though I am gonna be a bum hurt mad face bro!)