Guild Wars 2

In a perfect system, divisions should reflect skill level, from amber to Legendary, player should be spread by their skill. But i think the reality will be different. Let’s try a little analisys with what we know:

Pips, tiers and divisions.

We will start from Amber. Everyone. So there is no system to put you directly in a superior league, like make 10 test games and something like that. Probably is not bad because there are a lot of complaints for test games in other games, so ok, everyone starts from amber division. This doesn’t mean the matchup will be equal from everyone, there is always mmr, roster size and other parameters, so the system will always try to match people of the same skill level together (in theory).

You need X pips to climb the tiers, so you need X tiers to go to another division. This means you will need X pips in general (big number) to reach the legendary Division. Anet spoke about reset divisions every Season, it means you will start from 0 every Season.

The number of games you need to reach the legendary division is not fixed. It will depends (supposedly) about odds and final score like the old matrix. So you can gain more pips or you can lose more pips (only in higher division).

The old lederboard teached us something. If you want to reach higher spots, or you play an insane number of games every day, or you need to have a good team to farm most games as possible, but at the same time you need always to play a lot of games.
Season has a duration. We don’t know how long it will be but it means you need to gain X pips in Y amount of Time to reach the higher division. With the new Season, your effort will disappear and you need to start from 0.

What’s the issue here?

It’s the same of the old leaderboard. If you’re a really good solo player but you have a limited amount of time every day (and i’m not saying 30 min. but for example 2-3 hours that is not bad at all) probably it would be impossibile to reach higher spots (=higher divisions).

Probably the higher division will be only for people who can play something like 20+games everydays (for the entire league duration) or people who has good team but always need to play at least 10 games (and it’s about 3+ hours every day).

Without knowing exactly everything is not really possibile to do a super accurate analysis, but from what i read and considering the old Seasons test, I think the scenario will be this.

So, Legendary farmer or legendary player?

As you said we know nothing yet, but can speculate. Ofc you trying to point out the league system’s flaw in general, the problem is as you can see it too, there is no perfect system if oRNG gona be matched up against TCG in amber league they will still get 1 win even tho the game’s skill level was much more high, but I don’t want a system either where an Amber team beats a Legendary 5v4 (afk) or premade farm match and get into the Legendary division instantly.

I will get back to this topic when more information released about the system.

The answer to this would mean having very few pips and tiers per division but implementing the loss of pips and tiers even in the lower leagues this would make it easier to loose and gain rank points so that you would quickly stabilise in the division that u belong in with people who have on average the same skill level as you.

If (for reasons of bad luck) you drop out of your division you will then get easier fights in the lower division and be able to rise again quickly or you rise a division your fights will get harder and if you have not improved you will quickly be back down in your old division

With what we know of the system that anet has announced, if u hit a lucky streak u will ascend to a league that is too high for you and be stuck for the rest of the season playing against teams that are to strong and u will only loose, this will not be fun.

In order for you not to switch divisions every fight it would make sense to give players who have just risen or fallen a division 50% of the maximum pips/tiers allowing them to prove themselves in their new division before instantly dropping out again.

Because of the seasons no decay of Position/division needs to be implemented, if the seasons are short enough ( maybe 2 months or so ) as the ranks and divsions will be reset then.
This would seem like a decent enough system to me. Why would we need new automatic progression in the first 3 leagues every month, it seems to me the first 50 or so matches each season will simply be farming as philheat suspects, which is very discouraging

As I stated in my previous post. You should be rewarded less for facing people with lower leagues and punished more if you actually lose against someone who is in a lower league. This way those farmers will be punished for spamming games as you cannot really consistently win games unless you are skilled. Vice versa as well.

Patchi.9061:

As I stated in my previous post. You should be rewarded less for facing people with lower leagues and punished more if you actually lose against someone who is in a lower league. This way those farmers will be punished for spamming games as you cannot really consistently win games unless you are skilled. Vice versa as well.

I think the odds / final score matrix will determine how many pips you gain/lose and odds will calculated with the actual parameters in the matchmaking formula more or less.

So divisions will be basically a progression status similar to “you have X points in the old leaderboard”. If you are in the higher divisions it’s like you have more points in the old leaderboard.

In the old machmaking formula your position in the leaderboard didn’t count for odds calculation so i think it will be the same with divisions.

Basically Divisions will be a different old leaderboard visualization.

This is a speculation of course based on what we read on blogs but in this design i don’t find a strong correlation between your skill level (ranking) and the division level.

For Teamleaderboard is different because there will be an ELO system with decay and we’ll have an unique MMR for the entire Team Guild. This simply means the best Guilds will cover the higher spots.

I don’t think it will be the same with PVP leagues.

philheat.3956:

Patchi.9061:

As I stated in my previous post. You should be rewarded less for facing people with lower leagues and punished more if you actually lose against someone who is in a lower league. This way those farmers will be punished for spamming games as you cannot really consistently win games unless you are skilled. Vice versa as well.

I think the odds / final score matrix will determine how many pips you gain/lose and odds will calculated with the actual parameters in the matchmaking formula more or less.

So divisions will be basically a progression status similar to “you have X points in the old leaderboard”. If you are in the higher divisions it’s like you have more points in the old leaderboard.

In the old machmaking formula your position in the leaderboard didn’t count for odds calculation so i think it will be the same with divisions.

Basically Divisions will be a different old leaderboard visualization.

This is a speculation of course based on what we read on blogs but in this design i don’t find a strong correlation between your skill level (ranking) and the division level.

For Teamleaderboard is different because there will be an ELO system with decay and we’ll have an unique MMR for the entire Team Guild. This simply means the best Guilds will cover the higher spots.

I don’t think it will be the same with PVP leagues.

I agree.

I hope a dev can give us some extra details but i think this will be the scenario.

the newly proposed gw2 seasonal league pips system could probably be similar to ultra street fighter 4 ’s player points (pp) and battle points (bp)

in ultra street fighter 4, player points (pp) is player account based while battle points (bp) are character based, so each different character will have different battle points.

when both players pp and bp are similar, the increase or decrease would be normal.

however, if one player has very high pp / bp while the other other player has much lower pp / bp, the player with very high pp / bp will only earn 1 pp / bp for winning the match while the player with very low pp / bp will only lose 1 pp / bp for losing the match.

i think for this gw2 league the pips will behave similarly.

well i hope.

This was the old matrix

<Ladder default="0" min="0" max="1000000" leaderboard-points="1">
  <Matrix odds="0.0">
    <Score min="0"  points="-1"/>
    <Score min="200" points="0"/>
    <Score min="300" points="1"/>
    <Score min="400" points="2"/>
    <Score min="500" points="3"/>
  </Matrix>
  <Matrix odds="0.2">
    <Score min="0"  points="-1"/>
    <Score min="300" points="0"/>
    <Score min="400" points="1"/>
    <Score min="500" points="2"/>
  </Matrix>
  <Matrix odds="0.4">
    <Score min="0"  points="-1"/>
    <Score min="400" points="0"/>
    <Score min="500" points="1"/>
  </Matrix>
  <Matrix odds="0.6">
    <Score min="0"  points="-2"/>
    <Score min="300" points="-1"/>
    <Score min="500" points="1"/>
  </Matrix>
  <Matrix odds="0.8">
    <Score min="0"  points="-3"/>
    <Score min="200" points="-2"/>
    <Score min="300" points="-1"/>
    <Score min="500" points="1"/>
  </Matrix>
</Ladder>

Honestly i don’t aspect a revolutionary system, basically replace points with pips and probably this will be the new system. At least in division where you can lose pips. A positive/neutral matrix in divisions where you can’t lose pips.

I mean they worked for more than 6 months on this system, i think they want to continue in this way.

Probably there will be some modification in matchmaking and odds calculation but i think the new system will be similar.

Team leaderboard will have an elo system with decay but pvp league will be grinding i think

The issue is if Full 5 men team will be matched with soloers, the soloer experience will be terrible and not really fun for a 5 men team farming soloers. But at least they have great chance to win and have a progression in the Team leadaerboard and divisions. Not much of course but always better than lose a game.

Yeah I think this is gonna become farm thing,because they said,you’ll only be able to get Legendary Backpack skin through PVP. So you know what that means. All PVE players are gonna farm for that Legendary skin. PVP is gonna become “fun”.
Personally I am uniterested in Legendary skins…don’t have any Legendary weapons skin and have no plans to get it or farm for it.