Guild Wars 2

Hello fellow players, I have a game proposal for you! Especially those who like to theorycraft like myself.

I will give you 20 trait points which you can allocate however you want, with the rest of trait points allocated only into offensive or profession trait lines (you can slot 10 more into a defensive trait line if you pick an offensive trait there). In addition you can slot whichever heal you want and one defensive utility slot (the other two must go into utility heavy skills like stability or team support).

I am omitting the elite skill from this game seeing as not all classes have low cooldown elites that can be used in conjunction with lyssa runes, which will not be included in the setup based on warrior in return.

You can only use berserker’s amulet.

Your goal is to make me an offensive build (on a class other than warrior, S/D thief or spirit ranger for obvious reasons, which should be capable of either dealing sufficient burst, or locking down an enemy with CC while still allowing for good damage).

You can assume full usage of every trait you pick regardless of resource management. This build needs to be capable of healing 15600 HP within a 30 second time frame, while allowing to cleanse 18 conditions (as I said, I am assuming full usage of every trait regardless of resource management).

The build needs to have a stun breaker, be capable of surviving a glass cannon burst spike from 1 enemy (let’s say a shatter mesmer) when caught off-guard (understand as eating majority of the spike’s damage) and if the weapon choices do not include crowd control mechanics, need to be capable of bursting the target. The build also needs to have mechanics that prevent it from being kited effectively (like dogged march/berserker stance).

The purpose of this thread is not to QQ, but rather determine if Warriors are truly OP in terms of mechanics they have access to, or whether other classes have access to the same mechanics and it’s just trait allocation coupled with ease of access that makes warriors so strong right now. There have been many who advocated that Warriors are balanced right now, so let’s compare the possible builds of other classes to those of warriors and see where the truth lies.

Let the games begin!

…………..wut.

AtoBoss.2906:

…………..wut.

when did warriors start using trait points.

Theorycrafting proves nothing.

Sol.4310:

when did warriors start using trait points.

laughed in real life

Does this post apply to players that play all classes equally?

@The Primary: sure! anyone is welcome to post a build or just freely discuss traits/mechanics

I feel like this thread is too complicated, and most rational people will come to the conclusion that warriors are blatantly OP.

/end thread

Silferas.3841:

Your goal is to make me an offensive build (on a class other than warrior, S/D thief or spirit ranger for obvious reasons, which should be capable of either dealing sufficient burst, or locking down an enemy with CC while still allowing for good damage).

Just to clarify this, spirit rangers arent played with Berserker amulet.

They are played as condition tanks (if there would be c/v/t in PvP they would take this). This is due to the bugged pets and spirits (in my oppinion). Pets arent effected by rangers stats, that means, their cats burst no matter what the ranger is wearing and the spirits proc too often without requiring a crit or something like that.

Only this allows them to have an high burning uptime and high direct damage with high sustain.

I think they should be allowed too.

with 20 trait points idk if I could do it, with 30;

Guardian triple meds/monk’s focus/signet heal;

• meds [2k per meditation cast]
• Virtue of resolve [90 per second x 30]
• signet heal [8k],
• conditions cured; two from smite condition, three from signet then lets say a probably generous 8 from contemplation of purity; that makes 13 conditions cured

16,700 heal / 13 conditions cured

Necro well bombing [this is slightly more complex as is scales with number of targets from which to leech for this example lets again be generous and say that we are fighting a spirit ranger so 5 targets as a constant]

• 3x wells siphoning 100hp per tick from each target over 5 seconds; 2500 + 1 extra second from suffering = 2000 heal
• well of blood = 8.2k heal plus 5000 from 10 seconds of 5 target vampiric = 13.5k
• vampiric procs from say 1 attack per second [note that all power wellbombers use dagger, so all single target dmg] 30x 40 = 1,200 heal

Altogether: exactly 16,700 again However, if fighting only one target or targets who are clever enough to move out of the well fields, then these numbers will take a very drastic hit, these are numbers from above ideal situations.

In regards to conditions cured, well of power would convert 5 conditions into boons for all frirendly targets stood inside, however it does leave you open to being knocked out of the field if the player is smart.

I didn’t strictly stick to the rules though, well bomb necro is ridiculously easy to kite, there is nothing as good as dogged march available, guardian has some gap closing ability but it tends to come in bursts.

Necro zerk would struggle very much to eat a spike attempt, guard would have access to invulnerability though. Whichever weaponset you choose as guard would make a big impact too, greatsword is a must with this build, then either sword would give more melee uptime on your target to help spike, but be very low on CC, hammer would give more control but struggles to stay on target

Necro: (Avoiding MM, Wells)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmODZkRLbvTTcThIVwamPwNQPcPcBEpPAPA-ToAg0EyoixFjRGZM2YGis4YbB

Tried to go for the healing and conditions removal as stated while keeping power up..
Getting out kited on necro.. well yeah.. so i took all logical skills to go with kiting / defense and not getting spiked..

No idea what this will do but as close as i can come in a few minutes..

Silferas.3841:

You can assume full usage of every trait you pick regardless of resource management. This build needs to be capable of healing 15600 HP within a 30 second time frame, while allowing to cleanse 18 conditions (as I said, I am assuming full usage of every trait regardless of resource management).

>Play Engi

>Slot in Medkit

> 20 points in tools. 3 medkits healing 1000 on 12 s cd = 3 × 83.333 hps = 250 hps. One skill healing 4920 every 16.75 seconds = 293 hps.

> 250 + 293 = 543 hps = 16311 halth in 30 seconds. Done.

> Oh, did I say the heal will reset when you go below 25% health?

Something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pyUX7SyF17IyIFdGpJ6R+pfO2HFs1DC-TkAg0CnI0RFkLIjOycs5MEB

Condition IMMUNITY below 25% (hope this counts). 8% chance to convert one condition into a boon. One condi removal every 14 seconds.

Might Stacking (20 permanent stacks), Burst, Perma Vigor, more healing, a stunbreak, a block. AND protection while cc’d.

One pull, one knockback, one immobilize.

With THIS version

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pKeX7SyF17IyIFdGpJ6R+pfO2HFs1DC-TkAg0CnI0RFkLIjOycs5MEB

One pull, TWO knockbacks, one immobilize, one cripple.

Never played it, and I don’t guarantee it will work.

Also because I despise Berserk amulet on any build. I HATE glass cannons.

Sol.4310:

when did warriors start using trait points.

When spirit rangers were able to use their spirits whenever they wanted to and still win 1v1s.

Brilliant, so we do have people who have decided to participate after all! Thanks for posting these builds and please do keep it rolling, get wild and stuff.

Either way we can see that there are indeed builds that can achieve similar results to what warriors can do on paper, however most of these builds are not run in real situations for PvP, and there are good reasons for that, now I’d like to discuss what those reasons are.

And in regards to the other posts: yes, I know spirit rangers don’t run zerker amulet, I have posted that just in case somebody did want to make a build like that seeing as it’s quite easy for rangers to achieve good results with any iteration of a spirit build (seeing as only one spirit actually contributes to condition damage), even one including a zerker amulet.

@ all the posts that show pure disbelief or outrage over this thread: there is a specific thing I am aiming for with this post, but as I have learned over a year of using this forum, stating facts makes people angry and very unhappy a lot more easily than leading a discussion over something and letting them realize what’s the truth of the situation.

Because it is easier to have all the points in a list:

• Traits have to be at least 50 points in an offensive trait line
• Use berserker amulet
• Use Supportskills
• 15600 Heal over 30sec
• 18 Conditions cleanses within 30s
• 1 Stunbreaker
• Ability to survie Burst when caught off-guard
• good CC plus damage output
• not kite able, CC immunity/reduction
  Think that was all

One Build that could come close tho this would be a Terrormancer:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmWDbkRLcvbTejePhA9w9wFQMSxxEMUKgn0B-TsAAzCpIKS9l7LTRyvsfN6YBymEA
Still some room for improvements.

• 50 points in an offensive trait line → 30/20/0/0/20
• Use berserker amulet → Codnition damage so I use rabit instead
• Use Supportskills → Not one
• 15600 Heal over 30sec → Could get close, 2*5300 + Conditions and Regen from Staff #2
• 18 Conditions cleanses within 30s → Staff #4 and heal cleans every consition every 25s so there should be a cleans every 12,5sec Spitefull removal (Spite III) shouldn’t Count here.
• 1 Stunbreaker → spectral Walk
• Ability to survive Burst when caught off-guard → that would mean no fear and deathshroud? Could be hard, because necros lack of escape skills.
• good CC plus damage output → thould be no problem
• not kite able, CC immunity/reduction → Is kite able. Bad moveability, no gapcloser, … but can CC the enemy as well.

I’d change a few things:

• Atleast 30 points in defensive traitline
• All utilities most focus on survival

Warriors don’t use Support Skills, unless they use banners. And I guess they don’t.

However, warriors are kitable, as long as you don’t run a straight line away from them.

Ranged damage kittens as kitable, right?

And there are some people using power GC engi in pvp, even if it feels clunky to use.

Here is what I feel about Mace/Greatsword:

Not only it’s easy to use. But it’s easy to use WELL. That’s because the main combo is reliable and effective. This means You naturally tend to be patient with it.

With other builds, you not only have to be proficient with the game: you have to be psychologically ready. I for myself find it particularly easy to panic and play mindlessly, spamming autoattack and so. And the clunkiest the mechanics you have to rely on, the easiest it gets to panic. At least for me.

I always felt Static Discharge engi to be pretty clunky. Don’t ask me why. So I always panicked while playing it.

Skull Crack → Hundred Blades is one of the least clunky. This means I remain calm more easily. Even if I get easily bored by it.

Silferas.3841:

Either way we can see that there are indeed builds that can achieve similar results to what warriors can do on paper, however most of these builds are not run in real situations for PvP, and there are good reasons for that, now I’d like to discuss what those reasons are.

I tested the build I posted. IMHO it’s nothing to joke about.

@redslion: Gonna check it out tomorrow then mate

Silferas.3841:

@redslion: Gonna check it out tomorrow then mate

It’s pretty clunky, but might have some potential.XD

tichorum.2415:

Sol.4310:

when did warriors start using trait points.

When spirit rangers were able to use their spirits whenever they wanted to and still win 1v1s.

Yeah well Spirit Ranger requires more skill then a Warrior atleast. I still find it funny people are losing 1v1 to a Spirit Ranger. If I can beat them using a trap build anyone should be able to beat them. Maybe try not face tanking the Spirit’s. lol

jmatb.6307:

AI builds take skill?

Do tell!

Tell you what I’ll play none spirit build vs your spirit build, and you can show me how it takes no skill.

Face fact’s only reason Spirit’s hated so much, screen is a cluster kitten of AoE Effect’s, and I’m going to agree how the hell can you see anything.

all classes take skill to use. some are just much tankier than the other.

it’s really simple. no need to make any comparison.

Ashanor.5319:

Spirit Ranger takes more skill than warrior? Ha!

Only slightly. Spirit ranger has slightly lower apm than a standard hambow warrior (lol) but is also less forgiving (no stunbreaks or much active condi cleanse). It also depends on the matchup—for example, very few people are running warrior-killing mesmer specs for some reason, but warriors hard-counter spirit rangers. So in general, spirit rangers face more difficult fights with fewer mistakes allowed, but still have a very low apm and very few decisions to make other than positioning.

I put both specs somewhere around Animal Crossing in terms of difficulty to play.

ya they’re almost Jimmy and Timmy material

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ashanor.5319:

Spirit Ranger takes more skill than warrior? Ha!

Only slightly. Spirit ranger has slightly lower apm than a standard hambow warrior (lol) but is also less forgiving (no stunbreaks or much active condi cleanse). It also depends on the matchup—for example, very few people are running warrior-killing mesmer specs for some reason, but warriors hard-counter spirit rangers. So in general, spirit rangers face more difficult fights with fewer mistakes allowed, but still have a very low apm and very few decisions to make other than positioning.

I put both specs somewhere around Animal Crossing in terms of difficulty to play.

What’s funny is none of you play Spirit Ranger.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ashanor.5319:

Spirit Ranger takes more skill than warrior? Ha!

Only slightly. Spirit ranger has slightly lower apm than a standard hambow warrior (lol) but is also less forgiving (no stunbreaks or much active condi cleanse). It also depends on the matchup—for example, very few people are running warrior-killing mesmer specs for some reason, but warriors hard-counter spirit rangers. So in general, spirit rangers face more difficult fights with fewer mistakes allowed, but still have a very low apm and very few decisions to make other than positioning.

I put both specs somewhere around Animal Crossing in terms of difficulty to play.

What is a “Warrior killing mesmer spec” out of curiosity?

Sol.4310:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ashanor.5319:

Spirit Ranger takes more skill than warrior? Ha!

Only slightly. Spirit ranger has slightly lower apm than a standard hambow warrior (lol) but is also less forgiving (no stunbreaks or much active condi cleanse). It also depends on the matchup—for example, very few people are running warrior-killing mesmer specs for some reason, but warriors hard-counter spirit rangers. So in general, spirit rangers face more difficult fights with fewer mistakes allowed, but still have a very low apm and very few decisions to make other than positioning.

I put both specs somewhere around Animal Crossing in terms of difficulty to play.

What’s funny is none of you play Spirit Ranger.

I have before, but not at a high level and I’m only jesting of course. The humorous thing was how sure someone was that hambow is harder to play than spirit ranger.

Writetyper.1985:

What is a “Warrior killing mesmer spec” out of curiosity?

Phantasm specs generally have plenty of sustained damage to get through the regen and it’s hard for a melee-heavy warrior to deal with ranged phantasms.