So, about kit refinement nerf.
EG: deleting super elixir proc is obviously one of the main targets of this nerf.
Grenade kit: we had funny and not actually viable build. Now… we have useless mine which can be used once per 20 seconds.
Bomb kit: this is the only kit refinement proc that was actually was buffed.
Flamethrower: until anet will do something with endless misses while atacking moving targets, nobody cares. Except some condi-bunkers, may be.
Tool kit: we had caltrops that were useful for retreating, now we have… 2 seconds of double speed. Well, it might be usef… oh, 20 seconds GCD. Now i think that it cant be useful on any maps except spirit watch. Thanks for this awesome balance, i win 90% of games on spirit watch now.
Medkit: magnetic aura with 20 seconds GCD. Hmmm. No.
Do you like GCD guys? Why elems do not have any gcd on their skills? On attune swap? On elemental attuning? On elemental surge? On evasive arcana? Hmmm?
Conclusion: single trait was nerfed to the ground and there were not any trait that was actually buffed. Elems… were not nerfed.
teh 15 characters.
Yep, the KR change was not so cool and destroyed (not made them not viable, but it literally destroyed them) several awesome builds. Say all builds that included nades KR, ek KR and ft KR.
And toolkit KR… Well, there are people who didnt like it but personally I found its old KR awesome O_O
Only thing I dont miss is the explosive sound boom, boom, boom … I guess every engineer knows, which kit KR I mean.
And the bomb kit KR change is actually nice. Buuuuut…
why do you post it in the pvp forum instead of engi-forum? O_O
I know lots of people here still think that engineers still have the 100nades build and need some education on this… but…?
And directly comparing an engineer nerf to the elementalist in terms of nerfs? O_O whatta…?
Well, see it as a wink from arenanet… a sign for us to play HGH-condi-builds, that are much harder to evade/counter than 100nades ever was.
The new Bomb kit KR is actually no that good, it’s just “different..” the old one you could place a bomb that would AoE hit for 2-3k on glass cannon builds with no cool down, which you could use it to leave behind in between attacks ( no down time but really finger breaking). and you could combo it in too may ways!
The few times I play on my engineer I no longer bother with kit refinement except if I am using only one kit and I find the effect useful for that build. Using it with multiple kits feels like a waste.
why do you post it in the pvp forum instead of engi-forum? O_O
Well, i dont know where i should post this to get wide publicity of what anet is doing, because i’m sure that i’m not the only one who think that nerfing something that is not ele/mesmer/thief is ridiculous. I played those classes and i know what i’m talking about.
Kit refinement is certainly not worth taking any more in multiple kit builds, but it’s still possible to get a similar playstyle to the old kitmaster builds. The only reason anyone ever took kit refinement for was condition removal (or the second grenade barrage), so if you put a little condition removal somewhere else you can get close to the original feel.
Super elixir started off as a good skill, got bugged to heal for about 4 times as much as it should, got fixed back down to normal levels, got a significant buff, and then got a 50% indirect nerf. That’s literally the history of the skill.
Fortunately, no teams have really ever used bunker engi since the smoke bomb nerfs way back when, so no one notices when their skills change. Except HGH, that’s OP now apparently.
Looking back over what I just wrote, it looks like a pile of qq. Don’t mean it to be that way—eng is super fun to play and I’m enjoying my wonky updated kitmaster bunker a ton. There’s a reason engineers have a reputation as the highest skillcap profession, though. It takes a lot of research to find out what their skills do…
Kit refinement is certainly not worth taking any more in multiple kit builds, but it’s still possible to get a similar playstyle to the old kitmaster builds.
Exactly! But not only with multiplie builds since we have no any option when it should be activated, because they removed possibility to not proc it in air. Engis only way to stay mobile is using speedy kits as much as they can, and it definitely has no any synergy with kit refinement now. We even have no traits nor utilites giving us movement speed when out of combat (i didn’t count leg mods just because this 10% are useless). Using elixir B just for swiftness is silly, and its toolbelt skill gives random effects. Actually, we HAVE TO take speedy kits in ANY build, if we want to move faster than turtle. The only alternative is to use full set of centaur runes and med kit.
Kit refinement is certainly not worth taking any more in multiple kit builds, but it’s still possible to get a similar playstyle to the old kitmaster builds.
Exactly! But not only with multiplie builds since we have no any option when it should be activated, because they removed possibility to not proc it in air. Engis only way to stay mobile is using speedy kits as much as they can, and it definitely has no any synergy with kit refinement now. We even have no traits nor utilites giving us movement speed when out of combat (i didn’t count leg mods just because this 10% are useless). Using elixir B just for swiftness is silly, and its toolbelt skill gives random effects. Actually, we HAVE TO take speedy kits in ANY build, if we want to move faster than turtle. The only alternative is to use full set of centaur runes and med kit.
I was trying to be generous—I don’t think kit refinement is viable for any build, but it’s possible there’s something I missed about 1 kit builds that could possible utilize it.
On swiftness, speedy kits is definitely the best option. It’s certainly not the only one—if you’re an elixir build you’ll have pretty high swiftness uptime just from H and B drinking/throwing. I use med kit without speedy kits or runes, and that’s only 50%+ uptime obviously. However, you can drop your stimulant before the match starts, or while you wait for a point to cap, etc. I end up having a much higher swiftness uptime than 50% because I can drop the stimulant before I need it.
I was trying to be generous—I don’t think kit refinement is viable for any build, but it’s possible there’s something I missed about 1 kit builds that could possible utilize it.
Unfortunately, you are not missing anything. This is from a Tpvp perspective where you are willing to abuse every possible thing to win.
-deleted possibility offensive stuff-
Just as the developers stated, it is going to sit where it is for a while.
Your options is either learn to toss grenades or roll another class.
For those who never played an Engineer class here’s a comparison:
Elementalist:
- Elemental Attunement now has a 20s global cool down. To compensate all Conjure gets a cool down reduction. Even if Conjure Weapons were as low as 50% reduction in cool down was the trade off really worth it?
(edited by Lite.3819)
the 20s GCD made (a little) sense before they redesigned the skills. Now with the 20s GCD on top of these new (weaker) skills it’s like ANet is saying “we really don’t want you to use this”…
the one thing I really don’t understand though is why KR was singled out as an over-performing 10pt trait while other classes were untouched. I mean, what about Mug? What Ele build doesn’t use Elemental Attunements? Where would Mesmer’s shatter build be with a nerf to Mental Torments? 6k crits from stealth? Perma boons? 20% dmg increase on their main dmg skill aren’t over-performing for their trait tier?
I’m not saying these things need to be nerfed into the ground like KR was but some consistency would make me feel a bit better about having so many builds completely removed from Engis. Maybe Anet has a policy of only gutting 2 professions per patch? Engis and Warriors were last. Who’s up next?
On swiftness, speedy kits is definitely the best option. It’s certainly not the only one—if you’re an elixir build you’ll have pretty high swiftness uptime just from H and B drinking/throwing. I use med kit without speedy kits or runes, and that’s only 50%+ uptime obviously. However, you can drop your stimulant before the match starts, or while you wait for a point to cap, etc. I end up having a much higher swiftness uptime than 50% because I can drop the stimulant before I need it.
Its pretty sad, but, for example, stimulant does not give you only swiftness, fury from it is very useful sometimes. As i said, using elixir B or H just for swiftness is unreasonably, because when its on cooldown you become much weaker when it’s not. Using utility skills and even heal for just swiftness (random swiftness from elixir H!) is actually not what i want to do playing engineer.
the 20s GCD made (a little) sense before they redesigned the skills. Now with the 20s GCD on top of these new (weaker) skills it’s like ANet is saying “we really don’t want you to use this”…
I agree with it. Even giving us 20s gcd made this skill much weaker.
On swiftness, speedy kits is definitely the best option. It’s certainly not the only one—if you’re an elixir build you’ll have pretty high swiftness uptime just from H and B drinking/throwing. I use med kit without speedy kits or runes, and that’s only 50%+ uptime obviously. However, you can drop your stimulant before the match starts, or while you wait for a point to cap, etc. I end up having a much higher swiftness uptime than 50% because I can drop the stimulant before I need it.
Its pretty sad, but, for example, stimulant does not give you only swiftness, fury from it is very useful sometimes. As i said, using elixir B or H just for swiftness is unreasonably, because when its on cooldown you become much weaker when it’s not. Using utility skills and even heal for just swiftness (random swiftness from elixir H!) is actually not what i want to do playing engineer.
the 20s GCD made (a little) sense before they redesigned the skills. Now with the 20s GCD on top of these new (weaker) skills it’s like ANet is saying “we really don’t want you to use this”…
I agree with it. Even giving us 20s gcd made this skill much weaker.
I should have clarified. If you’re an HGH nades engi, which most are these days, you’ll be using elixir B and often even H out of combat all the time. The result is that you’ll have swiftness up most of the time.
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