I agree, cancel-casting, especially autoattacks are a problem. I personally find it too tedious to do, but the results are just stupid.
To fix it for ele, change SoR to only proc at the end of lightning whip (you can’t do it for all skills as things like scepter autos would never heal you).
To fix mesmer GS, just remove the aftercast completely and rebalance the damage.
I’m not a huge fan of being able to cancel other skills (earthquake, magnet pull, crate, etc) to force dodges for no loss, but that isn’t as imbalanced. Plus, It is necessary to be able to abort an ability for defensive purposes, so changing that might not be so easy.
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
You do realize that we live in an era of 12 button programmable mouses and keyboards that can run multiple in game actions at the click of a button?
This is a case of hardware superiority not mechanical
If they were to nerf this, then lightning whip must not interfere with casting abilities.
Often I have to wait for the AA to go through the entire animation, which exceeds the cast-bar, and then the skill will activate.
Either add an ICD to the signet or remove the ability to stow the AA, just like you can’t stow other skills, e.g. rush – and allow other actives to interrupt the AA animation.
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
You do realize that we live in an era of 12 button programmable mouses and keyboards that can run multiple in game actions at the click of a button?
This is a case of hardware superiority not mechanical
What does this have to do with anything?
My opinion is that if someone can pull off the timing of stow weapon casting on top of everything else they’re doing, I don’t mind if they have a slight advantage, I mind when it’s at the effectiveness the elementalist is currently at.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
You do realize that we live in an era of 12 button programmable mouses and keyboards that can run multiple in game actions at the click of a button?
This is a case of hardware superiority not mechanical
What does this have to do with anything?
My opinion is that if someone can pull off the timing of stow weapon casting on top of everything else they’re doing, I don’t mind if they have a slight advantage, I mind when it’s at the effectiveness the elementalist is currently at.
He means it’s very easy to automate perfect cancels using mouse (or other) macros to do it for you. That’s doesn’t really take skill, just the right hardware/software.
I do like cancel casting when it allows interesting combos or the ability to fake cast, but just as a pure dps/hps increase, meh. I’d rather using abilities be about using them intelligently, anticipating and reacting, rather than in just a pure APM kind of way.
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
You do realize that we live in an era of 12 button programmable mouses and keyboards that can run multiple in game actions at the click of a button?
This is a case of hardware superiority not mechanical
What does this have to do with anything?
My opinion is that if someone can pull off the timing of stow weapon casting on top of everything else they’re doing, I don’t mind if they have a slight advantage, I mind when it’s at the effectiveness the elementalist is currently at.
Everything since I can set my 12 key on my mouse to auto attack and cancel at the fraction of a second needed to. This means i just hit 1 key to auto attack/cancel making it just as easy as smashing my face on my KB.
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
You do realize that we live in an era of 12 button programmable mouses and keyboards that can run multiple in game actions at the click of a button?
This is a case of hardware superiority not mechanical
What does this have to do with anything?
My opinion is that if someone can pull off the timing of stow weapon casting on top of everything else they’re doing, I don’t mind if they have a slight advantage, I mind when it’s at the effectiveness the elementalist is currently at.
Everything since I can set my 12 key on my mouse to auto attack and cancel at the fraction of a second needed to. This means i just hit 1 key to auto attack/cancel making it just as easy as smashing my face on my KB.
That won’t work, you still need to execute the timing. You’ll actually cancel lightning whip mid cast and put it on a one second cool down if you mess the timing up.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
You do realize that we live in an era of 12 button programmable mouses and keyboards that can run multiple in game actions at the click of a button?
This is a case of hardware superiority not mechanical
What does this have to do with anything?
My opinion is that if someone can pull off the timing of stow weapon casting on top of everything else they’re doing, I don’t mind if they have a slight advantage, I mind when it’s at the effectiveness the elementalist is currently at.
Everything since I can set my 12 key on my mouse to auto attack and cancel at the fraction of a second needed to. This means i just hit 1 key to auto attack/cancel making it just as easy as smashing my face on my KB.
That won’t work, you still need to execute the timing. You’ll actually cancel lightning whip mid cast and put it on a one second cool down if you mess the timing up.
Uhh nope because I can set the time between actions by hundredths of a second.
There’s no issue IMO with allowing cancel casting autos to be more efficient, but it’s a problem with stow weapon lightning whip because of the results you achieve with healing signet.
The benefit is too strong in that situation. I have no issue with players being able gain a benefit by being able to use their mechanical prowess to unconsciously gain a minor upper hand. It’s just too much with the elementalist right now.
You do realize that we live in an era of 12 button programmable mouses and keyboards that can run multiple in game actions at the click of a button?
This is a case of hardware superiority not mechanical
What does this have to do with anything?
My opinion is that if someone can pull off the timing of stow weapon casting on top of everything else they’re doing, I don’t mind if they have a slight advantage, I mind when it’s at the effectiveness the elementalist is currently at.
Everything since I can set my 12 key on my mouse to auto attack and cancel at the fraction of a second needed to. This means i just hit 1 key to auto attack/cancel making it just as easy as smashing my face on my KB.
That won’t work, you still need to execute the timing. You’ll actually cancel lightning whip mid cast and put it on a one second cool down if you mess the timing up.
Uhh nope because I can set the time between actions by hundredths of a second.
That means a perfect auto/stow everytime.
You can already gain advantages with macros in the game. Top players don’t do it because it’s against the user agreement and their team will forfeit when they’re caught.
There’s no reason to make any additional consideration towards macros than the existing consideration you’d take for something like dodge jumping or skill comboing.
The macro argument provides no additional weight against or for stow weapon casting.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Was just thinking of a simple way to fix this without having to put in any complicated code:
LW hits 2x during the cast, currently 50/50 on damage.
Simply split the damage between hits to something like 30/70 or 25/75. Now you can still cancel/stow if you want to get some higher HP/S, but you are really hurting your dps. This basically removes the advantage of current cancel-casting except in the most niche of situations. Also, doing this doesn’t really hurt the sustained dps under normal operation, unless your opponent goes super-pro and is able to evade the 2nd hit every time. With the current attack rate, that is highly unlikely to happen.
I was told it’s bannable to make automated macros a la lightning whip stow weapon, the person told me they can see that the actions are too perfect.
If this is not the case then I have been putting myself at a disadvantage and will be using my k95 more efficiently now.
Someone lied to you
Macros are fine as long as it is “One Click = One Action”. If you record a macro that allows one key press to handle multiple tasks, then you are going against the terms of service as discussed by ANET.
For the lightning whip/stow situation, if someone is performing both tasks with one key press, then yes, they are a cheater. Will they get banned? Maybe or maybe not. I just don’t want to hear about people complaining when they do get banned for cheating.
I was told it’s bannable to make automated macros a la lightning whip stow weapon, the person told me they can see that the actions are too perfect.
If this is not the case then I have been putting myself at a disadvantage and will be using my k95 more efficiently now.
Someone lied to you
Macros are fine as long as it is “One Click = One Action”. If you record a macro that allows one key press to handle multiple tasks, then you are going against the terms of service as discussed by ANET.
For the lightning whip/stow situation, if someone is performing both tasks with one key press, then yes, they are a cheater. Will they get banned? Maybe or maybe not. I just don’t want to hear about people complaining when they do get banned for cheating.
Can’t be detected and even at a live event you’d have to be watching the players hands to legitimately tell.
I was told it’s bannable to make automated macros a la lightning whip stow weapon, the person told me they can see that the actions are too perfect.
If this is not the case then I have been putting myself at a disadvantage and will be using my k95 more efficiently now.
Someone lied to you
Macros are fine as long as it is “One Click = One Action”. If you record a macro that allows one key press to handle multiple tasks, then you are going against the terms of service as discussed by ANET.
For the lightning whip/stow situation, if someone is performing both tasks with one key press, then yes, they are a cheater. Will they get banned? Maybe or maybe not. I just don’t want to hear about people complaining when they do get banned for cheating.
Can’t be detected and even at a live event you’d have to be watching the players hands to legitimately tell.
Ever experience an ele macro’d scepter burst?
It certainly can be detected. If a player consistently does the same skill with the same timing in between movements, it becomes obvious. That’s one say ANET detects botters.
That said, you missed the point of my message. No guarantee that someone will get banned for it. Some have and probably most haven’t. I just don’t want to hear people complain if they decide to cheat and get caught.
I would also be willing to bet there are some players that are so mechanical their timings would be very close, my only question would be how are they measuring the timings, or at least how accurate
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I would also be willing to bet there are some players that are so mechanical their timings would be very close, my only question would be how are they measuring the timings, or at least how accurate
Many macros can be assigned timings in milliseconds, ANet has 0 reason to communicate their logging methods, but it’s possible to check intervals smaller than milliseconds.
It’s also not about checking that a couple of inputs were executed with perfect timing. It’s about measuring a body of inputs and being able to see the variance that human error creates.
Even the most mechanically adept players don’t have the exact same timing when you’re measuring at millisecond increments and smaller.
Also I’ve heard conversations of attempts at methods to request from the operating system what mouse/keyboard are in use.
Ideally if companies could compile a list of known processes that can execute macros and make that a living list and request that the OS send back if a program is running that has a match to that list that would be another way of identifying who to check on to see if they are running macros.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
First…I agree it needs to be fixed. One must be a macroer to find so dumb arguments not to do it.
Second … detecting macro is not obvious…because you have network latency which leads to variation of elapsed time between the two event (attack & stow) at server side while the elapsed time is perfectly the same on the client side.
Detecting macro would then imply catching all these events chronology on client side and send them to server for analyzis…likely not close to happen.
I would also be willing to bet there are some players that are so mechanical their timings would be very close, my only question would be how are they measuring the timings, or at least how accurate
Many macros can be assigned timings in milliseconds, ANet has 0 reason to communicate their logging methods, but it’s possible to check intervals smaller than milliseconds.
It’s also not about checking that a couple of inputs were executed with perfect timing. It’s about measuring a body of inputs and being able to see the variance that human error creates.
Even the most mechanically adept players don’t have the exact same timing when you’re measuring at millisecond increments and smaller.
Also I’ve heard conversations of attempts at methods to request from the operating system what mouse/keyboard are in use.
Ideally if companies could compile a list of known processes that can execute macros and make that a living list and request that the OS send back if a program is running that has a match to that list that would be another way of identifying who to check on to see if they are running macros.
Yeah that’s what I meant….. if anet is using some program that notices the time between cast of lightning whip and stow weapon is happening exactly .345 seconds apart everytime without fail will they ban them?
@kicast I was wondering about the latency thing too, would a macro made be consistent enough to benefit from the stow or would changes in latency effect the timing.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
macro would make you benefit from stow but latency should make it unoticable as the always 0.425 sec between your aa and your stow on your computer will become sometimes 0.450 or 0.400 or else depending on the network latency on server side.
It would always make you benefit from stow however.
Maybe macro can be detected if they catch the local(client) time of the event in the messages sent to the server…but I would be surprised they anticipated this.
Yeah my thing was if you screw up the timing you can actually hurt your dps and your healing, but I guess latency usually wouldn’t be enough to change the timing drastically enough to hurt it.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
Yeah my thing was if you screw up the timing you can actually hurt your dps and your healing, but I guess latency usually wouldn’t be enough to change the timing drastically enough to hurt it.
Also when making a macro you plan it with latency in mind.
You’ll give extra hundredths of a second between actions
It certainly can be detected. If a player consistently does the same skill with the same timing in between movements, it becomes obvious. That’s one say ANET detects botters.
That said, you missed the point of my message. No guarantee that someone will get banned for it. Some have and probably most haven’t. I just don’t want to hear people complain if they decide to cheat and get caught.
In a perfect world, where latency is 0 and jitter is at 0 then in theory this could happen.
Unfortunately we don’t live in this world, so your proposal to detect macros falls flat.
Especially when it comes down to fractions of a second.
Was just thinking of a simple way to fix this without having to put in any complicated code:
LW hits 2x during the cast, currently 50/50 on damage.
Simply split the damage between hits to something like 30/70 or 25/75. Now you can still cancel/stow if you want to get some higher HP/S, but you are really hurting your dps. This basically removes the advantage of current cancel-casting except in the most niche of situations. Also, doing this doesn’t really hurt the sustained dps under normal operation, unless your opponent goes super-pro and is able to evade the 2nd hit every time. With the current attack rate, that is highly unlikely to happen.
That doesn’t fix anything. What about other skills that are not divided in two or more attacks or stowing is abused to get rid of aftercast?
That kind of code is already used in checking possibility do change skill/traits/gear, so it should be easy to copy it and fix stowing weapon problem with all classed on all weapons now and in future = complex solution.
