Guild Wars 2

Hi, Anet, i know you read the forum, that’s why i’m posting this here.

Building Momentum:
Burst skills restore endurance.
is a 15 point minor trait in the 1st line strength line

*Warning*The word Berserker Warrior is referring to berserker warriors with atleast 15 point in strenght line.

Arena Net is going to fix “nerf” this trait in the upcoming patch.
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
and here I’ll list the reasons why they should not do it.

I know probably nobody cares about this trait, because almost every warrior just go hambow, tanky, even the ones who use it can rarely use it to it’s maximum effect and other classes just don’t care because it’s not op and rarely seen.

1. This trait is good, but not op
This trait is strong, but it makes no build overpowered.
You gain endurance, but you still need to time it in order to dodge enemies attack, since even with this trait the dodge uptime is no where close to thieves.

The overpowered builds right now :
*the tanky,
*the hambows,
*the dual sword settler shout war.
*the banner regen war.
non of them have this trait.
even if there are supposed Overpowered builds with this trait, it’s not because of this trait that caused them to be Overpowred, it’s other stuff.

This trait gives warrior more complex play style and combos
Without this trait, i know my play style will change, will be more boring, less possibilities. The main reason i play berserker gs/lb and other zerker builds with this trait, because it offers more difficult combos, so it gives Warrior a actual good skill cap which can compete with other classes.

Nerf this trait=Nerf berserker warrior’s survibility AND damage
We all know that this trait gives berserker warrior survibility by giving them endurance. but it also pairs with Reckless Dodge well, you can gain quick endurance with burst skill and dodge on enemy follow with burst skills to maximize your damage, these kind of combos are not easy to do, and have risks, if you miss your combos, not only you miss your damage, you also waste a dodge for nothing and you take more damage.

In conclusion
This trait makes no build overpowered, it also provides warrior with more complex game play, higher warrior’s skill cap, also gives a berserker warrior damage and survibility, nerfing it by that much will lower/nerf everything i mentioned above, perhaps a bigger nerf then the one hambow is getting.

There’s no point and no reason to “fix” this trait. Berserker Strength warrior are already not that good, plus you are already nerfing longbow damage and healing signet.
Or maybe you just want everyone of us go play tanky hambow, banner regen, shout heal settler?

Thanks for reading.

I’m all open with discussion, but please keep it in a respectful manner.

I agree with your points, but I think there’s two rational for the change that you didn’t address:
1- Dodge spam is bad for gameplay, and devs have said they want to reduce it across the board.
2- This minor adds a huge amount of dodge to warrior, it’s very strong for a minor.

But, I think your points stand. This is generally an underused trait line, and if you’re going to nerf it you should at the very least compensate it some other way. I’m really worried hambow, even nerfed hambow, will be the only decent spec after patch. Power specs, especially GS/LB, are getting destroyed this patch. It’s sad. Zerk pvp warrior in general has pretty much been continually nerfed since launch.

Brigg.6189:

I agree with your points, but I think there’s two rational for the change that you didn’t address:
1- Dodge spam is bad for gameplay, and devs have said they want to reduce it across the board.
2- This minor adds a huge amount of dodge to warrior, it’s very strong for a minor.

1.It gives you endurance, but you still have to time it like i said in the OP, you don’t see anyone complaining about warrior spamming dodges, because you simply can’t. since spamming dodges is easy to do and strong, if it is really possible everyone would be doing it.
and you don’t just get endurance on the fly, it’s like Cleansing ire, the only effective way of gaining endurance using this trait, is with a longbow.

2. Fast Hands is a way stronger minor trait, even with this bugged version of Building momentum.

Building momentum at 15% or Engineer Adrenalile Pump (10% on toolbelt skill use) are not much different from vigor. They grant a higher endurance regen as long as you use class mechanics often, but since 50% is the least amount required for a dodge, they can hardly involve any player made decision.
At 50%, Building Momentum also works at background (just way stronger) but can ALSO encourage the player to ACTIVELY use a burst skill in order to ensure a dodge worth endurance.

This is probably one of the most interesting warrior mechanics for PvE (even if it’s rarely needed outside of solos; the game is just too easy for a full group), where using an adrenal skill competes with Berserker’s Power and often results on a DPS loss, and it really saddens me to see it gone (I don’t play warrior btw :P).
I understand the game balance revolves around PvP, but it’s not like this trait, even in its bugged state, is as meta-ish as many others (like Cleansing Ire or Fast Hands, this last one being also a 15 point minor) there.

I would really prefer to see vigor and natural endurance regeneration receiving a hit and this kind of mechanics, which can benefit from an active player imput, becoming more prevalent.

mhmh.. i kinda disagree with you
one of the most powerfull builds mace sword
on condis and confusion on interrupt
got 20 poits in the first line so this build got this trait in it and it makes it stronger

however i doubt it is nearly strong enough worth nerfing for

on the other hand
anet probly wont undo their nerf unless a huge amount of players will post that it sjust total bullkitten will break the game etc
(like we have seen with the rune of perplexity.. )

so we will need tolive with the nerf..
since it wasnt that strong it wont make some builds unplayable… either : ))

Soinetwa.5193:

mhmh.. i kinda disagree with you
one of the most powerfull builds mace sword
on condis and confusion on interrupt
got 20 poits in the first line so this build got this trait in it and it makes it stronger

however i doubt it is nearly strong enough worth nerfing for

on the other hand
anet probly wont undo their nerf unless a huge amount of players will post that it sjust total bullkitten will break the game etc
(like we have seen with the rune of perplexity.. )

so we will need tolive with the nerf..
since it wasnt that strong it wont make some builds unplayable… either : ))

Mace/sword is not the most powerful build, it’s a duel centric build that only shine the most in duels, just like pu mes, mm necro and stuff, there are tons of better build then this, hambow for example.

And i also said that, if a strong build is strong, it will not because of this trait, mace/sword is strong because of sword 4 and mace CC with projectil reflection, they are already nerfing sword 4 and longbow.

sure, they probably won’t undo the change, but i at least tried. in the end of the day, if this spec becomes unplayable, i’ll just go hambow, tank condition, what not.

Soinetwa.5193:

so we will need tolive with the nerf..
since it wasnt that strong it wont make some builds unplayable… either : ))

please read again, i said the trait is strong, if you are really good at it and manage your skills well, but it makes no build op, this trait is the center trait of zerker build, just like Fast Hands.

One thing I want to mention is that Building Momentum is always 50% of endurance since beta. I play with this since this game release and until now I still haven’t see anyone really good on managing it. The tooltip currently mistaken and people think this change is a bug fixing, which is totally wrong.

I play with Building Momentum since before time itself and I know more about it than almost anyone else. I must say this trait is a bit overpowered due to the Combustive Shot. BUT, in other weapon’s situation, this trait is pretty much in a useless spot.

In my opinion, I support Anet to nerf this trait, but in this situation, nerfing this trait will force people to run some specific build such as Hambow.

Even this trait is so powerful with Longbow, I still see almost every warriors that wasted their Building Momentum effect by spamming their burst skills for no reason. In other words, this trait needs some personal skills to manage its own rotation and to maximum its profit.

Anastasis.7258:

One thing I want to mention is that Building Momentum is always 50% of endurance since beta. I play with this since this game release and until now I still haven’t see anyone really good on managing it. The tooltip currently mistaken and people think this change is a bug fixing, which is totally wrong.

I play with Building Momentum since before time itself and I know more about it than almost anyone else. I must say this trait is a bit overpowered due to the Combustive Shot. BUT, in other weapon’s situation, this trait is pretty much in a useless spot.

In my opinion, I support Anet to nerf this trait, but in this situation, nerfing this trait will force people to run some specific build such as Hambow.

Even this trait is so powerful with Longbow ( but hey,, I still see almost every warriors that wasted their Building Momentum effect by spamming their burst skills for no reason. In other words, this trait needs some personal skills to manage its own rotation and to maximum its profit.

Like you said, this trait encourages active plays and takes a lot of skill to maximize it’s benefit, even the best warriors can not manage it perfectly, sure this trait is a bit overpowered with Long bow, but hey! whats bad about being overpowered for having skills.

also the build itself is not overpowered, There’s no reason for the fix, with this not OP build nerfed, more people will just go hambow and tanky.

nerfing this trait, not only lower skill cap, less active plays, nerfing not supposed to be nerfed builds, force more people to go hambow or w/e, less diversity. there’s no benefit for us all.

wiki

“Each dodge requires 50% endurance. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate of 10% per second.”

That means – without vigor – for 50% endurance you have to wait 10 seconds.
Now with ‘Building Moment’ you get one additional dodge every 10 seconds per weaponset. Now combine that with ‘Burst Mastery’ ‘Cleansing Ire’ and maybe some vigor (how about ‘Vigorous Focus’) you just the master of dodges, and therefore completely broken.

Let’s compare that to the thief trait ‘Feline Grace’: 15 Endurance per Dodge. You think a thief can dodge too much? Well, a warrior can currently dodge far more.

Yes, most people are playing a tanky hambow-build, but maybe take a look from time to time at the ESL, then you realize that hambow is no longer the strongest warrior spec by far. People only continue to complain about hambows because there are not at lot of "ROM"s out there, to let people realize there are far more annoying specs out there.

Teutos.8620:

wiki

“Each dodge requires 50% endurance. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate of 10% per second.”

That means – without vigor – for 50% endurance you have to wait 10 seconds.
Now with ‘Building Moment’ you get one additional dodge every 10 seconds per weaponset. Now combine that with ‘Burst Mastery’ ‘Cleansing Ire’ and maybe some vigor (how about ‘Vigorous Focus’) you just the master of dodges, and therefore completely broken.

Let’s compare that to the thief trait ‘Feline Grace’: 15 Endurance per Dodge. You think a thief can dodge too much? Well, a warrior can currently dodge far more.

Yes, most people are playing a tanky hambow-build, but maybe take a look from time to time at the ESL, then you realize that hambow is no longer the strongest warrior spec by far. People only continue to complain about hambows because there are not at lot of "ROM"s out there, to let people realize there are far more annoying specs out there.

1st of all ROM’s build is specialized in far point 1v1, Hambow is way better for everything else.

Teutos.8620:

you just the master of dodges, and therefore completely broken.

Let’s compare that to the thief trait ‘Feline Grace’: 15 Endurance per Dodge. You think a thief can dodge too much? Well, a warrior can currently dodge far more.

Master of Dodges? more then acrobat thieves? really? yea, just spam all them kitten bursts for kitten dodges, No, No body ever complained about Warrior spamming dodges, ever, you simply don’t know how this trait works in real game play, and you don’t have a single kitten idea, please be gone of this discussion.

Simon.3794:

you simply don’t know how this trait works in real game play, and you don’t have a single kitten idea, please be gone of this discussion.

Oh no, somebody does not share your view! Ban them!

What’s the point of a discussion thread if you just want your own opinion here?

If you’d really love the warrior profession, you’d understand, that it is too strong, and need to get tunes down. With the upcoming sigil cd changes in combination of ‘Fast Hand’ even more so.

And no, since ‘Combustive Shot’ does not require you to successful hit a target, it was far too easy to maintain +50% endurance per 8 seconds.

Teutos.8620:

Simon.3794:

you simply don’t know how this trait works in real game play, and you don’t have a single kitten idea, please be gone of this discussion.

Oh no, somebody does not share your view! Ban them!

What’s the point of a discussion thread if you just want your own opinion here?

If you’d really love the warrior profession, you’d understand, that it is too strong, and need to get tunes down. With the upcoming sigil cd changes in combination of ‘Fast Hand’ even more so.

And no, since ‘Combustive Shot’ does not require you to successful hit a target, it was far too easy to maintain +50% endurance per 8 seconds.

No, it’s not because you don’t share my view, it’s because you simply don’t know how it works, yet you act like you know everything. Anatasis doesn’t share my view, but i totally agree with his points, and i try to convince him up on, because what he said are actually true. and Soinetwa.5193 doesnt share my view, but he didn’t comment on something he has no idea about, so i try to convince him.

When you say that a Building Momentum War out dodge an acrobat thief, this is just done man, it’s done.

Simon.3794:

When you say that a Building Momentum War out dodge an acrobat thief, this is just done man, it’s done.

If you do not include the weapon skills, he actually does. Should I help you with the math here?

Teutos.8620:

Simon.3794:

When you say that a Building Momentum War out dodge an acrobat thief, this is just done man, it’s done.

If you do not include the weapon skills, he actually does. Should I help you with the math here?

If you don’t include the weapon skills, Building momentum doesnt do anything, it’s a trait which only works up on using weapon skills. you know that right.

Also i apologize for being rude, i should have more patience for explaining.

Simon.3794:

If you don’t include the weapon skills, Building momentum doesnt do anything, it’s a trait which only works up on using weapon skills. you know that right.

What? Quoting out of context is the actual way to go here? It thought you were interested in a meaningful discussion.

If you are just interested in a black and white view, I can help you with that: Warriors smack faces → they needs to get shaved down, deal with it!

Teutos.8620:

Simon.3794:

If you don’t include the weapon skills, Building momentum doesnt do anything, it’s a trait which only works up on using weapon skills. you know that right.

What? Quoting out of context is the actual way to go here? It thought you were interested in a meaningful discussion.

If you are just interested in a black and white view, I can help you with that: Warriors smack faces -> they needs to get shaved down, deal with it!

What do you mean by Quoting out of context, you were saying with Building momentum war can outdodge acrobat thief, which is totally false, even let’s say Building momentum works on its own by magic, what’s the point of comparing two guy’s traid without looking at everything else, dhummfire and incendiary powder is two exact same thing, yet dhumfire is getting nerf and being grand master trait, while incendiary powder is only master.

Warriors need to get shaved down, i totally agree, there are things that are op
Shave Healing signet, berserker stance, double endura pain, PTV hambow dealing too much damage, Torment being too long, pin down need better animation, condition war etc
but this trait is not one of them, they are changing this not because it’s brainlessly op, only because it is bugged.

edit : sure it might sound OP on paper without looking at everything else the class has, but as anatasis said, no one can manage this trait perfectly,, The best of the best can’t not benefit the maximum it can offer, and it has to be a longwbow, every weapon else are pretty useless.
which means it’s a skill dependent trait, if you are good you are op, why not, this is what we say skill ceiling, there are classes that have high skill ceiling, like mesmer, ele, engi, why lower warrior’s skill ceiling, nerf skills that actually make warrior easy and op, like healing signet instead.

Simon.3794:

but this trait is not one of them, they are changing this not because it’s brainlessly op, only because it is bugged.

There have already been cases, where they adjusted the tooltip to match the actual effect.

The trait design is not bad, but with Cleansing Ire and Burst Mastery it is way to strong at his current position. So either change the position and make it a grandmaster trait, or tone down its effect.

@been so since release: But everything else effecting this trait has not. In the current state, and with all the upcoming changes it would be too strong. Would it have been a better solution to left this trait in place, but adjust all the other traits? Maybe, but that’s not an option here.

Nevertheless I think we should now just wait the last week till the patch hits lives, and then rethink every balance aspect and provide feedback accordingly.

Edit: I said, that the trait ‘Building Momentum’ is currently even stronger than ‘Feline Grace’.

The trait rewarded players that could land their burst skills. It also rewarded players who could manage their endurance around it.

It’s a major dumbing down for an already practically lobotomised class.

I would QQ more, but I stopped playing warrior a few months ago as I saw where the class was heading. Feel bad for my zerker brethren though.

Teutos.8620:

wiki

“Each dodge requires 50% endurance. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate of 10% per second.”

That means – without vigor – for 50% endurance you have to wait 10 seconds.
Now with ‘Building Moment’ you get one additional dodge every 10 seconds per weaponset. Now combine that with ‘Burst Mastery’ ‘Cleansing Ire’ and maybe some vigor (how about ‘Vigorous Focus’) you just the master of dodges, and therefore completely broken.

Let’s compare that to the thief trait ‘Feline Grace’: 15 Endurance per Dodge. You think a thief can dodge too much? Well, a warrior can currently dodge far more.

Yes, most people are playing a tanky hambow-build, but maybe take a look from time to time at the ESL, then you realize that hambow is no longer the strongest warrior spec by far. People only continue to complain about hambows because there are not at lot of "ROM"s out there, to let people realize there are far more annoying specs out there.

This^

This thread is ridiculous. The trait is flat out broken why does this one guy keep defending it

Lordrosicky.5813:

Teutos.8620:

wiki

“Each dodge requires 50% endurance. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate of 10% per second.”

That means – without vigor – for 50% endurance you have to wait 10 seconds.
Now with ‘Building Moment’ you get one additional dodge every 10 seconds per weaponset. Now combine that with ‘Burst Mastery’ ‘Cleansing Ire’ and maybe some vigor (how about ‘Vigorous Focus’) you just the master of dodges, and therefore completely broken.

Let’s compare that to the thief trait ‘Feline Grace’: 15 Endurance per Dodge. You think a thief can dodge too much? Well, a warrior can currently dodge far more.

Yes, most people are playing a tanky hambow-build, but maybe take a look from time to time at the ESL, then you realize that hambow is no longer the strongest warrior spec by far. People only continue to complain about hambows because there are not at lot of "ROM"s out there, to let people realize there are far more annoying specs out there.

This^

This thread is ridiculous. The trait is flat out broken why does this one guy keep defending it

What he said made no sense whats so ever, he’s compare two trait without watching anything else, Just like comparing Dhummfire to Incendiary Power, There’s no point.

Also unlike “’Feline Grace”, You don’t simply dodge and have the full benefit of this trait. Like Anastas said, no one can ever take the full on paper potential of this trait, it is impossible, even the best of the best warrior can only unleash part of it’s power, it is skill based, why being op for having skill is bad, there are other classes that can be op for having skills, like ele, mesmer, engi, having high skill ceiling is not a bad thing.

On top of that, changing it to 15 endurance is unreasonable, even 25 endurance makes more sense.

I really wish people can start posting knowing how exactly stuff works instead of just on paper effect without knowing it takes a large amount of skill and still can’t even have it’s full potential, i’m sure you don’t want me to make ignorance comment on necro, since i don’t play one.

if it is really op and broken, why there’s no OP build that have a play style based on this trait, why there is hambow instead of this. i’m sure all the good warriors, specially the old one, have been playing this trait for ages. Please be more reasonable.

I think the reason people don’t take you seriously is because you claim Condi warrior isn’t a powerful broken build. The fact is the tooltip says one thing but it does another, they are merely making it so the tooltip is correct.

Coulter.2315:

I think the reason people don’t take you seriously is because you claim Condi warrior isn’t a powerful broken build. The fact is the tooltip says one thing but it does another, they are merely making it so the tooltip is correct.

I never said that Condi warrior isn’t a powerful broken build,
in the game right now, what i hate the most, dual sword condition build
every time i see one, i just have the urge to rage.

merely making the tooltip correct by doing so, you nerf a not overpowered build in survibility and damage while lowering it’s skill ceiling and game play style.

i almost never really switched to hambow or anything else that are OP and brainless, because i love this trait, i’ve been trying to master it, my play style, my combos, everything.

Overpowered builds will still be overpowered even after the nerf because it’s not the trait that caused them to be overpowered.

but in the end of the day, if they change, i won’t rage but move on, i may find new good builds, or i may stick to one of those op builds, and i will only blame anet, if anyone complain about it.