Guild Wars 2

I have tried to use this a few times, but it feels more like I am running around with no heal (well a small one from monk’s focus). Has anyone figured out how to use this in spvp, or is it just as useless as it seems?

Answer: Don’t use it. It’s beyond useless in every aspect of the game.

In order for Litany of Wrath to beat the HP/sec of Signet of Resolve, you’d have to do over 17k damage. If you’re doing that much damage in 6 seconds, your target is already dead anyway.

Besides, Shelter >> everything else.

TIME WARP!

Yasha.5963:

I have tried to use this a few times, but it feels more like I am running around with no heal (well a small one from monk’s focus). Has anyone figured out how to use this in spvp, or is it just as useless as it seems?

How to use it?

Don’t.

/thread

Exedore.6320:

Answer: Don’t use it. It’s beyond useless in every aspect of the game.

In order for Litany of Wrath to beat the HP/sec of Signet of Resolve, you’d have to do over 17k damage. If you’re doing that much damage in 6 seconds, your target is already dead anyway.

Besides, Shelter >> everything else.

Nice argument you make. “Shelter > all, but Signet of Resolve is what we compare things to!”

Mediguard can do over 17k dmg or thereabouts in 6s with procs. And no 17k dmg isn’t enough to kill a lot of classes.

Litany of Wrath isn’t exactly useless like people believe it is.

SobeSoul.6910:

Exedore.6320:

Answer: Don’t use it. It’s beyond useless in every aspect of the game.

In order for Litany of Wrath to beat the HP/sec of Signet of Resolve, you’d have to do over 17k damage. If you’re doing that much damage in 6 seconds, your target is already dead anyway.

Besides, Shelter >> everything else.

Nice argument you make. “Shelter > all, but Signet of Resolve is what we compare things to!”

Mediguard can do over 17k dmg or thereabouts in 6s with procs. And no 17k dmg isn’t enough to kill a lot of classes.

Litany of Wrath isn’t exactly useless like people believe it is.

Get an offguard, take that crap heal, go into a match vs decent ppl

Come back and write down what happened

Archaon.9524:

SobeSoul.6910:

Exedore.6320:

Answer: Don’t use it. It’s beyond useless in every aspect of the game.

In order for Litany of Wrath to beat the HP/sec of Signet of Resolve, you’d have to do over 17k damage. If you’re doing that much damage in 6 seconds, your target is already dead anyway.

Besides, Shelter >> everything else.

Nice argument you make. “Shelter > all, but Signet of Resolve is what we compare things to!”

Mediguard can do over 17k dmg or thereabouts in 6s with procs. And no 17k dmg isn’t enough to kill a lot of classes.

Litany of Wrath isn’t exactly useless like people believe it is.

Get an offguard, take that crap heal, go into a match vs decent ppl

Come back and write down what happened

I have played games with it before. Considering it auto heals for 3.6k on top of 25% dmg dealt returns vs. Shelter’s 4.6k, and a 6s shorter CD, it’s pretty obvious none of you are even bothering with the math of the heal.

SobeSoul.6910:

I have played games with it before. Considering it auto heals for 3.6k on top of 25% dmg dealt returns vs. Shelter’s 4.6k, and a 6s shorter CD, it’s pretty obvious none of you are even bothering with the math of the heal.

No, you’re the one that can’t do math. When you use shelter properly, it heals + prevents more than Signet of Resolve. Litany of Wrath requires you to do an absurd amount of damage to come close to the healing of Signet of Resolve (without the signet cooldown reduction trait).

You know what happens when I see a guardian use Litany of Wrath? Kite and laugh because I know they’re terrible.

Like some other people have stated, you don’t use it. Litany of Wrath is a high risk, high reward skill, however the risk far outweighs the reward. When it comes to your healing skill you don’t really want to take unnecessary risk. Which is why Shelter is generally the preferred choice in most situations. You’re guaranteed a solid heal and you can also use it to mitigate a great deal of damage.

I like the concept behind Litany of Wrath, however, there is a lot of counter play against it.

I ll try do some math

Block:
heal 4 616
cast time 1.25s
CD 30s
HP per second ~148hp/s
additional feat block 2 second

Litany of wrath (traited Meditation Mastery, Monk Focus):
heal 3 657
cast time 0.75s
CD 24s
HP per second ~148hp/s
additional feat heals 25% damage dealt in next 6s

So same base hp/s. Different feats only. Shelter has defensive use, litany – offensive.
If enemy team have many cc and boon ripping shelter seems better for me. Many keep shelter just to negate incoming burst.
Not experienced with guard though. Just thoughts.

litany is countered by blocks/invuln/blinds etc while shelter is only countered by a few specific skills. for this reason, a well used shelter wins.

Exedore.6320:

SobeSoul.6910:

I have played games with it before. Considering it auto heals for 3.6k on top of 25% dmg dealt returns vs. Shelter’s 4.6k, and a 6s shorter CD, it’s pretty obvious none of you are even bothering with the math of the heal.

No, you’re the one that can’t do math. When you use shelter properly, it heals + prevents more than Signet of Resolve. Litany of Wrath requires you to do an absurd amount of damage to come close to the healing of Signet of Resolve (without the signet cooldown reduction trait).

You know what happens when I see a guardian use Litany of Wrath? Kite and laugh because I know they’re terrible.

Wat?

I have done the math on Litany and Shelter. It doesn’t even matter if you kite whether Litany is effective or not.

Judging from your rationale I am guessing you copypasta builds without critically thinking out the builds.

Solstice.1097:

litany is countered by blocks/invuln/blinds etc while shelter is only countered by a few specific skills. for this reason, a well used shelter wins.

Depends on what role you are taking up whether to choose between the two. Using Litany in a team fight would be silly.

While Mak’s break down shows that litany and shelter do roughly the same heals per second and his break down of offensive and defensive mirror what i believe the developer’s intent is….

The truth of the matter that shelter becomes a more valuable heal because of the capability to block multiple incoming attacks, thus in essence healing (mitigating) incoming damage on top of the recovery of 4kish health. It is markedly more defensive and gains a bonus to defense.

Litany is supposed to be more offensive, but it does not offer more offense, just reward if you are successful in your offense, by providing more healing back.

Litany is not strong enough for sustain to continue doing damage in said scenarios though, which is why it is seen as lack luster. The offensive bonus is not observed and game changing enough.

If litany provided a way to do “more” damage while utilizing it, thus reinforcing the offensive nature of it, it would see more utilization. Or if it provided a much higher healing to damage ratio (which is what the majority would like).

A much smaller buff, but one people would be pleased with would be if litany was instant cast like all the meditations now are. That alone may prompt more to use it.

At the moment litany provides so little return on it’s usage that it is often not enough to warrant it’s usage.

As it is now your choices are resolve and shelter. Resolve has a higher hps with better condition control. Yet condition control is not where guards are typically lacking, and shelter can make up for the hps by smart usage of the block function, so 90% of guards use shelter.

CMF.5461:

A much smaller buff, but one people would be pleased with would be if litany was instant cast like all the meditations now are. That alone may prompt more to use it.

Pls no-no-no. I am already lacking of interruptable enemy healing skills on my lockdown mesmer. Only mesmer, ranger, and necros prone to use interruptable healing skills

Lol, mak. I understand the struggle. Sorry I brought it up

SobeSoul.6910:

Wat?

I have done the math on Litany and Shelter. It doesn’t even matter if you kite whether Litany is effective or not.

Judging from your rationale I am guessing you copypasta builds without critically thinking out the builds.

Yeah, personal insults because you can’t provide your math. I listed mine before. I took 75% of signet of resolve’s healing (to compensate for CD difference), subtracted the base amount, then divided that difference by 0.25. I ended up with a little over 17,000 damage needed to reach the same HP/sec as un-traited signet of Resolve. Other than bunkers, your PvP will have between 16k and 20k HP, so you’d pretty much have to kill them outright in that 6 seconds. So it only works against the same people who face-tank a full 100blades.

Simple fact of the matter is that Litany of Wrath was balanced for PvE where mobs rarely kite and where you have damage bonuses galore as well as might and vuln stacking. But PvEers don’t use Litany of Wrath there either because shelter mitigating a 10k+ damage attack is still better.

And yes, kiting matters. A lot. If the guardian can’t land the damage, the healing bonus is pointless and you’re left with a piddly heal.

Edit
Btw, if you considered base Signet of Resolve against full traited Litany of Wrath, it needs ~5k damage to reach the same HP/sec. That’s reasonable, at least. However, Shelter does almost as much base HP/sec but the block is invaluable. Block one 5k damage attack with Shelter and in order for Litany of Wrath to compare, you would need to 20k damage.

Even if Shelter didn’t exist, people would be use the signet instead. Litany of Wrath is incredibly ineffective and underpowered in practice.

Exedore.6320:

SobeSoul.6910:

Wat?

I have done the math on Litany and Shelter. It doesn’t even matter if you kite whether Litany is effective or not.

Judging from your rationale I am guessing you copypasta builds without critically thinking out the builds.

Yeah, personal insults because you can’t provide your math. I listed mine before. I took 75% of signet of resolve’s healing (to compensate for CD difference), subtracted the base amount, then divided that difference by 0.25. I ended up with a little over 17,000 damage needed to reach the same HP/sec as un-traited signet of Resolve. Other than bunkers, your PvP will have between 16k and 20k HP, so you’d pretty much have to kill them outright in that 6 seconds. So it only works against the same people who face-tank a full 100blades.

Simple fact of the matter is that Litany of Wrath was balanced for PvE where mobs rarely kite and where you have damage bonuses galore as well as might and vuln stacking. But PvEers don’t use Litany of Wrath there either because shelter mitigating a 10k+ damage attack is still better.

And yes, kiting matters. A lot. If the guardian can’t land the damage, the healing bonus is pointless and you’re left with a piddly heal.

Edit
Btw, if you considered base Signet of Resolve against full traited Litany of Wrath, it needs ~5k damage to reach the same HP/sec. That’s reasonable, at least. However, Shelter does almost as much base HP/sec but the block is invaluable. Block one 5k damage attack with Shelter and in order for Litany of Wrath to compare, you would need to 20k damage.

Someone else listed the math. You should probably read the entire thread. Not to mention Heal/Time isn’t like the quadratic equation or anything where you or I really need to list it out.

And you’re ignoring the fact you have other damage mitigation tools in your kitten nal besides the block.

The math works great… against the practice golems in the mist. Litany is useless in any other scene.

Shelter forever….besides some might/burn on block is a nice bonus

Signet of Resolve:
8150 per 41s = 199 HPS

Litany of Wrath traited:
1640 + 1960 per 24.75 seconds = 145 HPS

Shelter:
kitten (really anet) per 31.25 seconds = 146 HPS

In order for Litany of Wrath to surpass Signet of Resolve in pure HPS, the damage it needs to do is:
(Signet of Resolve healing – Litancy of Wrath healing) *4

Signet of Resolve does 4919 healing in 24.75 seconds, Litany of Wrath does 3600.
(4919-3600) * 4 = 5276

In order for Shelter to surpass Signet of Resolve in pure HPS, it needs to mitigate the difference in healing, at a minimum. Signet of Resolve Healing – Shelter Healing = 6318-4555= 1763 damage mitigated, which is like one or two autos in a practical sense.

Now keep in mind this is for pure HPS. This says nothing about actual counterplay, in which case Shelter wins in virtually any scenario. Literally the only practical downside of Shelter is that it has a longer cast time than the other heals, which might allow an Engineer to poison it, condis to tick, give more time for unblockable interrupts, or that one warrior who randomly runs Signet of Might to eviscerate.

In my opinion, there’s an argument to be made for Signet vs Litany, but the block from Shelter is absurdly powerful and outshines any amount of healing the other two could do. Block 5k damage, and that translates to 20k damage for Litany, and you’ve also nearly doubled the HPS from Signet. It’s ridiculous.

I really think that comparing heals on stat baseline’s is a waste of time. there are too many variable’s in any situation that would mitigate or change what heal is more effective.

Is the enemy actually hitting you during shelter? If not then not as effective. Do they have an Unblockable Poison field to drop on you ? then not as effective. Are you wasting time doing no damage for 2 s while the opponent is full healing or resetting? then not as effective

Have you traited fully into Meditations? If so Litany of Wrath can heal for drastically more. It has everything you need. decent base heal to keep you up, decent burst skills on guard that allow you to proc it well (GS#2, Scepter #2, Torch #5 even sword# 3) and even fury to increase your damage for when you need your damage high. you can even trait for Retal on heal so even when enemies hit you, you heal. However, same applies. IS there poison on you? Can you cast it reliably before your burst skills? If the CC you what do you have to get out of it? If the CC you during it same thing except now you lost your heal.

So its all about do you have the skill or patience to run a heal where the risk is higher but you have a guaranteed full heal if it goes off? Or do you want to stay back and sacrifice some damage and pressure for much less of a heal on a longer CD. I have used both, and in fairness, although I have used Litany effectively and love the heal it gives, the risks are very high and if kited, results can be bad

Belarorn.9062:

Have you traited fully into Meditations? If so Litany of Wrath can heal for drastically more. It has everything you need.

+1000!
And pretty useful when there are many mesmer illusions nearby!
Guardians, pls use Litany!

Exedore.6320:

I ended up with a little over 17,000 damage needed to reach the same HP/sec as un-traited signet of Resolve. Other than bunkers, your PvP will have between 16k and 20k HP, so you’d pretty much have to kill them outright in that 6 seconds. So it only works against the same people who face-tank a full 100blades.

You could do 17K damage much more easily using AoE in a group fight. Purging Flames alone can theoretically do 17K damage. So could JI + SoW.

Exedore.6320:

Answer: Don’t use it. It’s beyond useless in every aspect of the game.

In order for Litany of Wrath to beat the HP/sec of Signet of Resolve, you’d have to do over 17k damage. If you’re doing that much damage in 6 seconds, your target is already dead anyway.

Besides, Shelter >> everything else.

This ^.

Really hoping they see how useless it is then up the base healing & make it instant cast. (would also be nice if they made the damage to healing effect allies as well.)

Making it instant cast would suit the aggressive style of the heal and work well with other meditations, but I guess the heals on a few classes tend to be unbalanced (ie only one is really worth taking). I just wish the new toys they gave us were actually worth playing with (I know its been in game for ages now, but its relatively new).

SobeSoul.6910:

Archaon.9524:

SobeSoul.6910:

Exedore.6320:

Answer: Don’t use it. It’s beyond useless in every aspect of the game.

In order for Litany of Wrath to beat the HP/sec of Signet of Resolve, you’d have to do over 17k damage. If you’re doing that much damage in 6 seconds, your target is already dead anyway.

Besides, Shelter >> everything else.

Nice argument you make. “Shelter > all, but Signet of Resolve is what we compare things to!”

Mediguard can do over 17k dmg or thereabouts in 6s with procs. And no 17k dmg isn’t enough to kill a lot of classes.

Litany of Wrath isn’t exactly useless like people believe it is.

Get an offguard, take that crap heal, go into a match vs decent ppl

Come back and write down what happened

I have played games with it before. Considering it auto heals for 3.6k on top of 25% dmg dealt returns vs. Shelter’s 4.6k, and a 6s shorter CD, it’s pretty obvious none of you are even bothering with the math of the heal.

Shelter is not about heal..it’s about block, ppl just can’t get that blocks, evades, invuln, protection and so on are WAY more important than healing

This is not pve…if you get focused in tf 2k more heals will never save your kitten …not even 3k..let alone you also need to deal a decent amount of damage to get some healing…so you need to jump into condi/aoe/dmg and kitten spam in order to get something…

if you heal up you’re probably already kiting, for sure you’re not in middle of tf spamming your spintowin stuff…if you’re doing that you are not low enough to waste an healing cd…

i could write down a wall of text explaining why that healing skill sux (Like any other guard healing skill) compared to shelter but i don’t have enough time to waste…

So let’s just make it short…if something is good, good players would use it.

How many offguards do you see running that in esl?

Exactly…being able to kill scrubs doesn’t mean something is good, i can still kill full of ppl with rifle warrior in unranked…but rifle warrior still totally sux vs anyone with a proper working brain and i will NEVER play it against someone above decent…