Guild Wars 2

So, I main Thief (I mostly play d/d and d/p), and I noticed the new “Lock On” trait that Engineers will be getting. I actually don’t mind the fact that stealth mechanics will see some counter-play, but I don’t necessarily like the way that Lock On will affect the game.

Engineer’s already have tons of AOE, so hitting a thief in stealth should be no problem at all. It seems unfair that engineers will be the only class with ways to deal with stealth, (in a brain dead and spammy manner), while other classes like Mesmer will still struggle with Thieves.

All this being said, stealth is one of the things that makes the thief class unique and fun to play. It’s pretty clear that Shadow Refuge as well as the d/p heartseeker stealth combo become nearly useless with this change. Due to their stationary and lengthy nature, it should be no problem at all for an engineer to tag a thief in either of these stealth fields. I dislike Lock On, but I would be open to other counter play mechanics being added. Stripping stealth with an AOE just seems unfair. I was hoping other people would have suggestions on a fun way to play against an invisible enemy without spamming.

I was thinking something along the lines of a final attack of an auto chain removing stealth? I’m sure there are better ways out there to do it, and I hope Anet considers the suggestions if they intend to add anti-stealth mechanics in the future.

I agree that anti-stealth needs to be more balanced across the board rather than being a niche utility available to only a few classes. Every class should have some reveal access, it shouldn’t be a ridiculous 8 seconds long, and it should be on something that won’t feel 100% useless against any profession besides thief/mes.

I feel like it should be a totally different mechanic honestly, built into stealth itself. Take or deal more than X damage (including condi) while in stealth and you are revealed for 3 seconds. Dealing any power damage would still reveal you instantly.

Zephyr.6475:

So, I main Thief (I mostly play d/d and d/p), and I noticed the new “Lock On” trait that Engineers will be getting. I actually don’t mind the fact that stealth mechanics will see some counter-play, but I don’t necessarily like the way that Lock On will affect the game.

Engineer’s already have tons of AOE, so hitting a thief in stealth should be no problem at all. It seems unfair that engineers will be the only class with ways to deal with stealth, (in a brain dead and spammy manner), while other classes like Mesmer will still struggle with Thieves.

All this being said, stealth is one of the things that makes the thief class unique and fun to play. It’s pretty clear that Shadow Refuge as well as the d/p heartseeker stealth combo become nearly useless with this change. Due to their stationary and lengthy nature, it should be no problem at all for an engineer to tag a thief in either of these stealth fields. I dislike Lock On, but I would be open to other counter play mechanics being added. Stripping stealth with an AOE just seems unfair. I was hoping other people would have suggestions on a fun way to play against an invisible enemy without spamming.

I was thinking something along the lines of a final attack of an auto chain removing stealth? I’m sure there are better ways out there to do it, and I hope Anet considers the suggestions if they intend to add anti-stealth mechanics in the future.

mesmers should struggle with thieves… one new mechanic in gameand all of a sudden all classes are etitled or need this? no….

Darksteel.8412:

Zephyr.6475:

So, I main Thief (I mostly play d/d and d/p), and I noticed the new “Lock On” trait that Engineers will be getting. I actually don’t mind the fact that stealth mechanics will see some counter-play, but I don’t necessarily like the way that Lock On will affect the game.

Engineer’s already have tons of AOE, so hitting a thief in stealth should be no problem at all. It seems unfair that engineers will be the only class with ways to deal with stealth, (in a brain dead and spammy manner), while other classes like Mesmer will still struggle with Thieves.

All this being said, stealth is one of the things that makes the thief class unique and fun to play. It’s pretty clear that Shadow Refuge as well as the d/p heartseeker stealth combo become nearly useless with this change. Due to their stationary and lengthy nature, it should be no problem at all for an engineer to tag a thief in either of these stealth fields. I dislike Lock On, but I would be open to other counter play mechanics being added. Stripping stealth with an AOE just seems unfair. I was hoping other people would have suggestions on a fun way to play against an invisible enemy without spamming.

I was thinking something along the lines of a final attack of an auto chain removing stealth? I’m sure there are better ways out there to do it, and I hope Anet considers the suggestions if they intend to add anti-stealth mechanics in the future.

mesmers should struggle with thieves… one new mechanic in gameand all of a sudden all classes are etitled or need this? no….

It isnt a new mechanic and everybody needed it before. Go troll somewhere else scrub you aint even good at it.

I think this is a good trait and I main a thief. I like it that not every class has it and no mesmer doesn’t need it because they have mass invisibility along with other stealth abilities. They are part of what this ability counters but mostly it’s thief this is for. Because thief is a hard counter to mesmer doesn’t mean they should get this to counter thieves. 2 professions can provide team stealth and 1 can provide it in a long duration. Now there are 2 classes that can counter stealth and 1 can do it more reliably. To me I think that seems fairly balanced.

As for thieves crying about this being unfair, well too bad, because other classes have been complaining about stealth attacks being unfair. We just have to roll with this and accept that we will have to play smarter when there is an engi on the opposing team. Stop QQing about it. They got their counterplay to stealth and we don’t have to get revealed just for breathing so I think it’s a fair trade.

Linnael.1069:

I agree that anti-stealth needs to be more balanced across the board rather than being a niche utility available to only a few classes. Every class should have some reveal access, it shouldn’t be a ridiculous 8 seconds long, and it should be on something that won’t feel 100% useless against any profession besides thief/mes.

I feel like it should be a totally different mechanic honestly, built into stealth itself. Take or deal more than X damage (including condi) while in stealth and you are revealed for 3 seconds. Dealing any power damage would still reveal you instantly.

Great idea, although I think any damage from stealth should result in the reveal debuff. It might have just been your wording, but it sounds like you want people to damage more than once from stealth.

Zephyr.6475:

Linnael.1069:

I agree that anti-stealth needs to be more balanced across the board rather than being a niche utility available to only a few classes. Every class should have some reveal access, it shouldn’t be a ridiculous 8 seconds long, and it should be on something that won’t feel 100% useless against any profession besides thief/mes.

I feel like it should be a totally different mechanic honestly, built into stealth itself. Take or deal more than X damage (including condi) while in stealth and you are revealed for 3 seconds. Dealing any power damage would still reveal you instantly.

Great idea, although I think any damage from stealth should result in the reveal debuff. It might have just been your wording, but it sounds like you want people to damage more than once from stealth.

I mean that any damage should still reveal instantly, but that there should also be a limit to how much condi damage you can do in stealth as well. Obviously it couldn’t just be any condi damage, but it would help tone down dire thieves in wvw if they popped revealed after dealing 3k condi damage or something.

Agree with Linnael.1069. The anti-stealth mechanic needs to be more generalized with some punishment for using stealth poorly – not specific and put the stealth user at a huge disadvantage for so long.

Maybe take the stability or break-bar approach with stealth? Each stealth skill grants stacks of stealth, which last a certain duration. Specific attacks or taking some amount of damage would reduce the stacks or work against a bar. If you hit 0, you get revealed.

This is the first time we’ve seen a mechanic that will forcibly remove someone from stealth. The other “stealth counter”, like Sic ’Em! and Analyze, were only means of preventing someone from entering stealth, not actually removing them from stealth.

As such, I’m not really sure how this is going to play out.

However, do keep in mind that an engineer must spec for it, this doesn’t come free. Taking this also means not taking speedy kits, so it’s quite possible the engineer will be slower and thus you might be able to retreat from them more effectively if they happen to reveal you.

It does also have an ICD of 20 seconds. Yes, they can take utility googles to extend that up to a maximum of 18 seconds of revealing, but now they had to lock out one of their utility skills, and they can’t do something else like refresh a stun break or a healing ability. However, not everyone may opt to do that.

If it turns out to be too powerful, I’m sure they’ll kick it back into the ground it came from. Say, at the very least, reduce the lock on reveal duration so that the thief can still opt to pop another cooldown or something in order to go back into stealth almost immediately. I dunno.

I think your all forgetting that an engineer with this trait is a slow engineer, thats right this trait is in direct compatition with speedy kits, so aslong as you dont try to be a hero fighting an engineer that will take this trait to also be a hero then you will be fine and while im at it might i remind you about how reveal skills compleatly knocked thiefs.outta the meta when they were first introduced………….o wait it didnt, youll be right thiefs youll be right

Yamsandjams.3267:

This is the first time we’ve seen a mechanic that will forcibly remove someone from stealth. The other “stealth counter”, like Sic ’Em! and Analyze, were only means of preventing someone from entering stealth, not actually removing them from stealth.

As such, I’m not really sure how this is going to play out.

However, do keep in mind that an engineer must spec for it, this doesn’t come free. Taking this also means not taking speedy kits, so it’s quite possible the engineer will be slower and thus you might be able to retreat from them more effectively if they happen to reveal you.

It does also have an ICD of 20 seconds. Yes, they can take utility googles to extend that up to a maximum of 18 seconds of revealing, but now they had to lock out one of their utility skills, and they can’t do something else like refresh a stun break or a healing ability. However, not everyone may opt to do that.

If it turns out to be too powerful, I’m sure they’ll kick it back into the ground it came from. Say, at the very least, reduce the lock on reveal duration so that the thief can still opt to pop another cooldown or something in order to go back into stealth almost immediately. I dunno.

Its just funny how many were complaining about thieves running away again in the last weeks. And with things like that we are kinda forced to “run” away. Shadowstep is on a 50sec cooldown and also needed for condi-cleanse or stunbreaker (engi has a lot of CC you know?). We could go more aggressive of course with blind from black powder (D/P) or evades (S/D). Blind got nerfed and can´t compete with all the AoE the engi has and evades from S/D got nerfed, too. In a teamfight in PvP a thief can even less go deep.

Coronit.9432:

Its just funny how many were complaining about thieves running away again in the last weeks. And with things like that we are kinda forced to “run” away. Shadowstep is on a 50sec cooldown and also needed for condi-cleanse or stunbreaker (engi has a lot of CC you know?). We could go more aggressive of course with blind from black powder (D/P) or evades (S/D). Blind got nerfed and can´t compete with all the AoE the engi has and evades from S/D got nerfed, too. In a teamfight in PvP a thief can even less go deep.

Oh, please. Thief is not “forced” to run away. You kittened up, you’re almost dead, you have to run away. And you have the best tools at your disposal for doing so.

Engineers didn’t need help against thieves. Arenanet either dosent play their game or just stupid. They should have given it to mesmers instead , 3 sec reveal on a succeful shatter would make sense.

This is a little off topic but:

As a community we need to stop calling things “Brain dead.” It’s a term used so much that it’s beginning to cheapen the posts it’s used in.

I almost went “knee jerk response” and ignored the whole post, even though I also play a thief and could benefit from supporting this.

EDIT: Went back and read the topic.

>Dont stand in fields
>Dont SR when an engie is near

and prob solved.

I’m not understanding why engineers received this sort of a trait. Would have been cool for mesmers or rangers with a shorter duration.

Seems like an engi can just crank out nades or mortar shots when a thief is stealthed and that’s it. That’s not exactly skillful.

I kind of like this trait it is kind of useless for almost every other non stealth class, but I can see where it will be a problem with that low cd. I would like too keep the trait but I feel it should be a bit weaker than the normal analyze like 4 sec of reveal to stay on par with normal reveal and mabye bring it down to 5 stacks of vuln. I have never had trouble finding teefs in stealth ever I use the ingame sound to listen for bunker down procs if it procs I know I am hitting them. Good trait just needs a tone down to keep from completely destroying a stealther off the bat.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This is a little off topic but:

As a community we need to stop calling things “Brain dead.” It’s a term used so much that it’s beginning to cheapen the posts it’s used in.

I almost went “knee jerk response” and ignored the whole post, even though I also play a thief and could benefit from supporting this.

EDIT: Went back and read the topic.

>Dont stand in fields
>Dont SR when an engie is near

and prob solved.

Says the Charr Warrior lol.

The lock on trait is a bad idea and would be the equivalent of thieves being able to lock you out of adrenaline gains for 18 of 20 seconds.

The reveal duration is just too long with such a short ICD, especially considering it takes little skill at all to just endlessly spam aoe all over the place.

The way this trait works now, engineers will unintentionally reveal thieves with their endless spam, especially in a game mode like conquest. An example like that is the furthest from the definition of active game play and literally falls in line with passive at that point.

Anet … is seriously the only game company / MMO out there that I know of that does everything in their power to employ only idiots.

Alright, I can’t stand Thieves just as much as the next guy, wait .. It’s more like a love/hate thing I guess. The bad Thieves are free kills, the good ones are a total nightmare.

But I will say this. The game could use more stealth counter-play (Aside from blowing AoEs and attacking the air), but I’m not sure traits like this one and the Ranger skill are the way to go.

The reason why Thieves seem so OP, so annoying, yet so attractive to play for many is because of this issue. GW2 is the only competitive game I can think of where there doesn’t exist an intuitive, streamlined and reasonable approach to anti-stealth.

It just isn’t there. Take OP’s quote for example:

Zephyr.6475:

I actually don’t mind the fact that stealth mechanics will see some counter-play,

Some counter-play. Because we pretty much have none now. It’s a glaring issue that’s gone on way too long, but the way they’re attempting it doesn’t make any sense. By giving certain classes access to it, you’re creating hard counters, which the Devs themselves said they never wanted to do.

The development of this game is both amazing, and depressing to watch honestly. They’re either at war with eachother and can’t agree on how to implement things, or they’re all just … Nevermind.

Honestly its a trait that may not even be used that much in a trait line that before this overhaul suffered greatly compared to the others. Tools actually has a good feel and set of traits that actually are useful now who knows how good the other traits that compete with it are the new speedy kits that is almost mandatory or takedown round that spawns an explosive at their feet with a very low cd for extra aoe? I will most likely take takedown round because its an extra aoe burst with a low cd just for hitting someone at above 50% rather than a reveal trait.

I still think that stealth should be treated how to is in WoW. If someone who is in stealth gets hit by damage then it removes them from stealth, but it shouldn’t give them revealed. Only certain skills should put revealed, idk for instance maybe the ele’s revealed skill is Phoenix. 1. This isn’t spammable 2. If it doesn’t hit the person stealthed then the ele is out a good damage source. 3. It makes stealth more precious and strategic, and it may push the meta away from stealthing. Just my 2 cents. (On my iPhone so sorry if the grammar or spelling is bad… Stupid auto correct)

so, as an engi, i dont really wanna be the only class with a true stealth counter. its going to define my role in all pvp situations involving thieves and mesmers. i will be the one who has to hunt them, because im supposed to counter them, and i will be… locked in… to that role. i dunno if ill be able to reasonably play pvp without taking tools. i dont want that to be the case.

however, anet has given us stealth “counters” before, and look where they are now. sic em and utility goggles are entirely ignored, because theyre completely impotent. if we try to be proactive and reveal our target before he stealths, he just shadowsteps or blinks away, waits 6 seconds, and laughs at us for slotting such a situational and counterable utility. it isnt a counter. we cant use it in response the someone stealthing, because we have to have a target for each current stealth “counter”, and that target cant be targeted when its needed. lock on is a true stealth counter. i wanna see where it puts stealth. because long duration and spammable stealths are very bad mechanics, and they currently have no counterplay besides wildly guessing and wasting a bunch of active defenses while the opponent runs in circles around you. its annoying. i just wish the counter would go out to more classes, because again, i dont want to be defined as the teef hunter for the next 8 months.

T raw.4658:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This is a little off topic but:

As a community we need to stop calling things “Brain dead.” It’s a term used so much that it’s beginning to cheapen the posts it’s used in.

I almost went “knee jerk response” and ignored the whole post, even though I also play a thief and could benefit from supporting this.

EDIT: Went back and read the topic.

>Dont stand in fields
>Dont SR when an engie is near

and prob solved.

Says the Charr Warrior lol.

The lock on trait is a bad idea and would be the equivalent of thieves being able to lock you out of adrenaline gains for 18 of 20 seconds.

Wrong. This trait would be the equivalent of an engineer being able to lock out a warrior from gaining adrenaline for 18 or 20 seconds, of which since it contests with speedy kits the warrior could just run and reset from using GS or Sword leap and swiftness of which it has abundance of and return to fight the Engi.

Your example is wrong because a warrior couldn’t reset the fight as a thief could catch it especially since mobility skills won’t be effected by swiftness and thief mobility is unhindered due to it all being ports. Where as an engineer lacks the mobility after giving up speedy kits to catch said warrior, or thief. Which if revealed can run and reset or head to another point.

That said, I will still be taking speedy/streamlined, since the reinstallment of perma swiftness purely because I don’t and have never needed to reveal thieves to kill them or at least push them off point.

Zephyr.6475:

So, I main Thief (I mostly play d/d and d/p), and I noticed the new “Lock On” trait that Engineers will be getting. I actually don’t mind the fact that stealth mechanics will see some counter-play, but I don’t necessarily like the way that Lock On will affect the game.

Engineer’s already have tons of AOE, so hitting a thief in stealth should be no problem at all. It seems unfair that engineers will be the only class with ways to deal with stealth, (in a brain dead and spammy manner), while other classes like Mesmer will still struggle with Thieves.

All this being said, stealth is one of the things that makes the thief class unique and fun to play. It’s pretty clear that Shadow Refuge as well as the d/p heartseeker stealth combo become nearly useless with this change. Due to their stationary and lengthy nature, it should be no problem at all for an engineer to tag a thief in either of these stealth fields. I dislike Lock On, but I would be open to other counter play mechanics being added. Stripping stealth with an AOE just seems unfair. I was hoping other people would have suggestions on a fun way to play against an invisible enemy without spamming.

I was thinking something along the lines of a final attack of an auto chain removing stealth? I’m sure there are better ways out there to do it, and I hope Anet considers the suggestions if they intend to add anti-stealth mechanics in the future.

Welcome to our world,,, aka the non engineer non thief players out there.

We have to deal with the bull crap from both of you….

Guards got an anti stealth trap.
Engi’s got an anti stealth trait.

Something tells me that Thieves Specialization is going to be disgusting.

Saiyan.1704:

Guards got an anti stealth trap.
Engi’s got an anti stealth trait.

Something tells me that Thieves Specialization is going to be disgusting.

Thief Elite Specialization: Vomit

Description: Disgusting.

PistolWhip.2697:

Saiyan.1704:

Guards got an anti stealth trap.
Engi’s got an anti stealth trait.

Something tells me that Thieves Specialization is going to be disgusting.

Thief Elite Specialization: Vomit

Description: Disgusting.

VomitHunter

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Saiyan.1704:

Guards got an anti stealth trap.
Engi’s got an anti stealth trait.

Something tells me that Thieves Specialization is going to be disgusting.

Thief Elite Specialization: Vomit

Description: Disgusting.

VomitHunter

Engi gonna be Thiefhunter?

Coronit.9432:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Saiyan.1704:

Guards got an anti stealth trap.
Engi’s got an anti stealth trait.

Something tells me that Thieves Specialization is going to be disgusting.

Thief Elite Specialization: Vomit

Description: Disgusting.

VomitHunter

Engi gonna be Thiefhunter?

lets just be real and go with balancehunter

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Saiyan.1704:

Guards got an anti stealth trap.
Engi’s got an anti stealth trait.

Something tells me that Thieves Specialization is going to be disgusting.

Thief Elite Specialization: Vomit

Description: Disgusting.

VomitHunter

That’s obviously too “high concept” of a name.

slaps knee

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This is a little off topic but:

As a community we need to stop calling things “Brain dead.” It’s a term used so much that it’s beginning to cheapen the posts it’s used in.

I almost went “knee jerk response” and ignored the whole post, even though I also play a thief and could benefit from supporting this.

EDIT: Went back and read the topic.

>Dont stand in fields
>Dont SR when an engie is near

and prob solved.

Says the Charr Warrior lol.

The lock on trait is a bad idea and would be the equivalent of thieves being able to lock you out of adrenaline gains for 18 of 20 seconds.

Wrong. This trait would be the equivalent of an engineer being able to lock out a warrior from gaining adrenaline for 18 or 20 seconds, of which since it contests with speedy kits the warrior could just run and reset from using GS or Sword leap and swiftness of which it has abundance of and return to fight the Engi.

Your example is wrong because a warrior couldn’t reset the fight as a thief could catch it especially since mobility skills won’t be effected by swiftness and thief mobility is unhindered due to it all being ports. Where as an engineer lacks the mobility after giving up speedy kits to catch said warrior, or thief. Which if revealed can run and reset or head to another point.

That said, I will still be taking speedy/streamlined, since the reinstallment of perma swiftness purely because I don’t and have never needed to reveal thieves to kill them or at least push them off point.

We’re on the PvP Forum mate. When’s the last time you saw a GS warrior?

Go back to the engi forums and be happy

T raw.4658:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This is a little off topic but:

As a community we need to stop calling things “Brain dead.” It’s a term used so much that it’s beginning to cheapen the posts it’s used in.

I almost went “knee jerk response” and ignored the whole post, even though I also play a thief and could benefit from supporting this.

EDIT: Went back and read the topic.

>Dont stand in fields
>Dont SR when an engie is near

and prob solved.

Says the Charr Warrior lol.

The lock on trait is a bad idea and would be the equivalent of thieves being able to lock you out of adrenaline gains for 18 of 20 seconds.

Wrong. This trait would be the equivalent of an engineer being able to lock out a warrior from gaining adrenaline for 18 or 20 seconds, of which since it contests with speedy kits the warrior could just run and reset from using GS or Sword leap and swiftness of which it has abundance of and return to fight the Engi.

Your example is wrong because a warrior couldn’t reset the fight as a thief could catch it especially since mobility skills won’t be effected by swiftness and thief mobility is unhindered due to it all being ports. Where as an engineer lacks the mobility after giving up speedy kits to catch said warrior, or thief. Which if revealed can run and reset or head to another point.

That said, I will still be taking speedy/streamlined, since the reinstallment of perma swiftness purely because I don’t and have never needed to reveal thieves to kill them or at least push them off point.

We’re on the PvP Forum mate. When’s the last time you saw a GS warrior?

Go back to the engi forums and be happy

Many times mate. In fact, Hammer/GS is queued by a lot of people.

Anas Tarcis for example was using a GS in his stream 2-3 days ago.

Plus Sword is a staple with its 2 anyway.

Just sayin’.

Oh, and the point of my post was to show how silly your comparison was and replace it with a better one. Cheers. o/