Guild Wars 2

Jelzouki.4128:

The the traited range at almost 2000 needs to be nerfed. And power ranger can indeed be a good addition to a team. Eurantien is a power ranger for one of the NA teams that went to the wts. If you’re a ranger all you need to do is position yourself in the right spot where your enemy will have a hassle trying to get you. In this case your COUNTERS such as condi classes or porting classes should go after you. Every class has counters, but when we’re talking about balance, close to 2000 range hits are absurd.

And I lol’d at the comparison to life blast. Life blast does not home (someone said it did wtf, I think you’re thinking of DS #2) and it has 1200 range, you need to trait for it to pierce so it doesn’t get obstructed, it has the most obvious animation in the world (big dark energy ball charging up in front of the necro) and its cast time is brutal. You most certainly cannot state lifeblast is on the same level as longbow ranger.

Unless it’s on Foefire, almost all maps have location to counter projectiles. Also please, just go play one Power Ranger in ranked Que, RIGHT NOW, and see how “easy” your job is as a Power Ranger, and how “useful” you can be to your team. You probably will be shocked by the result. Just go for it please, now. If power ranger is as easy as you claimed, their shouldn’t only be one of them in the entire tournament. Those people are not stupid yknow.

Laraley.7695:

Actually in order to get damage like what’s displayed here the player had to have been using a 6/6 set up, which means they have no survival from their traits, and blew two utility skills for the damage spike. So this ranger’s entire survivability is summed up as one block on their greatsword, a 3 second stealth on hit, and 6 seconds of invuln from Signet of Stone.

Meanwhile any good thief build is going to have loads of stealth and far more mobility, making them harder to pin down and vastly harder to track. A thief has much, much better disengage potential and can easily reset the fight. Zerker ele has three powerful cantrip defenses, more mobility, and has more healing and party support built into the class baseline.

The main defense for thief is stealth. The main defense for ele is cantrips and heals. The main defense for power ranger is that incredible range. Without it they wouldn’t be playable.

That is true, however you forget the amount of cc ranger has. Also, the greatsword can block multiple attacks if played correctly, 6 second endure pain is quite strong, medium armour and hp pool…While thief has better ways of disengaging, the defenses are active and not as strong as Signet of stone for example. It’s great thief has stealth, but you have to play correctly, you might be forced to dodge in stealth, too since many attacks track stealth. So, I wouldn’t say ranger does not have many defensive utilities. Also, the fact it has so much range is the reason why it’s so braindead.

Toxsa.2701:

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Haha, this is priceless. Why does have to be everything about tournaments? Only a fraction of pvp community actually participate in those and balance should not be focused only on them.

Yes, no one runs zerker ele in pvp. Only half of people who play ele.

Since you say power ranger is too hard for you to play, I think you might wanna reconsider whom you say to L2P.

Toxsa.2701:

LB makes hard choice if they want to pierce. You either have to sacrifice 1500 range and damage, or make your LB unable to hit anyone (no RtW) if you want to make LB pierces.

And for necromancers it is the same. Soul Reaping is probably the only traitline necros have where the choices are really hard, since there are so many good traits.

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

Not too sound like a kitten, I honestly am not trying to sound like one. I’m no pro, Just rank 60 and 700 games with a i think a 351 L and 349 2 rate.

But the moment you start going to reach the higher levels of pvp: champions ie champion legionairre’s, champion paragons, legendary champions, rank 80 players and or premade teams. You will notice that no class whatsoever has an distinct advantage over one another. Every class and mow each other down easily at that level.

Infact I’m as bold to say that even in unranked play you will notice that the position the ranger held as OP players will already significantly change, to the point that they are beatable.

Infact me bieng above halfway through with reaching my champion paragon and champion legionairre titles start to notice the decrease in difficulty with classes I used to think where OP in practice matches. I absoultely hated mesmers and tought they were just ridiculous classes with little to no recover time and thier ability to disengage out of battle on while I’m still licking my wounds.

The thing is OP, the only inbalance classes have currently is accessability. Surely OP you will understand that it’s much easier to wield a class that specialises in dealing damage from afar then a class that primarily deals damage through melee combat? in this case because both players are new, but because the the ranger in this example has often more chances to deal damage on account a warrior for example having to traverse a certain distance first to deal damage. Also because both players are noobs. The warriors are even more disadvantaged. both players could not know how to dodge or how to counter the plethora of moves or abilities like the average joe , upper tier players and proffesionals. but that doesn’t matter, the ranger could even be such a noob that he doesn’t even have any condi cleanses or proper heals. in the end it’s a basic game of sword vs pistol,. And we all know that the pistol wins pretty much every frocking time.

I was one of those noobs that considered myself a a master of the guardian and engineer. All I did with engineer was run around throwing grenades and running around waiting for my elite skill. After I downed the enemy player I laughed, thinking I was hot kitten. And with guardian all I did was stack all of my traits in ridiculous healing power and made the traditional tanky shout guardian. Well cause those noobs couldn’t kill me after figting for 10 minutes, I tought I could tank everything. I was even so arrogant as to define the entire pvp scene in 4 kittening tiers: noob, mediocore, upper tier and proffesional. I was even more arrogant to consider myself an upper tier player. Well that all changed the moment I started getting into more proffesional circles. My guardian’s defences got poked through as it all that toughness 3000+ and HP 18 K was butter. I litterally couldn’t comprehend how in the world that was even possible. As for engineer when I saw that my turrets were destroyed or worse tanked trough, my grenades skillfully dodged, defended against or tanked through. My CD’s used. My jaw dropped.

long story short. And again no offence, you need more practice, and if you reached your limit, associate with the upper circles of the pvp scene and watch. you will see that each class is equally beatable.

and this is coming from a mediocore player

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

No one said anything about balancing around hotjoin, you’re the one who keeps talking about it, maybe you should get out of hotjoin for once and try to queue.

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

No one said anything about balancing around hotjoin, you’re the one who keeps talking about it, maybe you should get out of hotjoin for once and try to queue.

Hey, you’re the one who refused to que up in Rank que as ranger lol.. Ik the reason already, because they’re not good enough.

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

Except there is no pro scene to balance things off of, and it’s not like A-Net would do that anyway.

The fact of the matter is that only a very tiny proportion of the community takes PvP seriously, because lets face it, it’s a total joke.

To begin with there have to be frequent balance updates to shake things up, and matchmaking should at least be decent.

Conquest is the root of this though.

Want proof that conquest is a dead end gamemode for e-sports? Look at Dominion in LoL. It’s like GW2, where everyone basically starts at max power and holding/capping points determines the winner. Everyone hates that game mode.

All builds that are used right now are OP in one way or another, that’s doesn’t have to be a problem in its own right. The problem is that the mechanics in all those builds are extremely toxic.

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

I genuinely think that Guild Wars 2 is one of the most complex games there is. Sure you can do clutch kitten in Dota 2, however, those clutch plays are just way easier to understand, see, and perform when the game is so simple. Every hero only has a few buttons and one way to move. Guild Wars 2, meanwhile, is much faster paced and therefore much more of a challenging medium to interpret to be able to react in those same clutch moments.

Guild Wars could be at a whole other level of clutch. We are talking → pin down → Elidemic cast call! → epi channel → fear me → Epidemic cast. That’s a really fast and clutch play that could devastate a team fight. Yet nobody does this because you can win by just playing better without god tier plays. I would say that Is then just a product of classes being effective and not needing to do these plays and also people just not being good enough at guild wars. There is little drive for the average player to get better. The only reason there are people at the top isn’t because of time played but because of their own motivation to push those boundaries.

This thread is seriously making me question its credibilty posts like this are…

Toxsa.2701:

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Is this seriously a PvP thread? I doubt it. haha.

StickerHappy.8052:

This thread is seriously making me question its credibilty posts like this are…

Toxsa.2701:

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Is this seriously a PvP thread? I doubt it. haha.

What this guy is basically saying, something I have been saying as well. The reason some classes seem op compared to others is due to accesibility mainly. the more you associate yourself with higher circles(not pro’s) the less certain class deemed cringeworthy will seem easier and easier to beat.

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

No one said anything about balancing around hotjoin, you’re the one who keeps talking about it, maybe you should get out of hotjoin for once and try to queue.

Hey, you’re the one who refused to que up in Rank que as ranger lol.. Ik the reason already, because they’re not good enough.

I never refused anything.

You fail to see the difference between something being easy and useful.

Eurantien.4632:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

I genuinely think that Guild Wars 2 is one of the most complex games there is. Sure you can do clutch kitten in Dota 2, however, those clutch plays are just way easier to understand, see, and perform when the game is so simple. Every hero only has a few buttons and one way to move. Guild Wars 2, meanwhile, is much faster paced and therefore much more of a challenging medium to interpret to be able to react in those same clutch moments.

Guild Wars could be at a whole other level of clutch. We are talking -> pin down -> Elidemic cast call! -> epi channel -> fear me -> Epidemic cast. That’s a really fast and clutch play that could devastate a team fight. Yet nobody does this because you can win by just playing better without god tier plays. I would say that Is then just a product of classes being effective and not needing to do these plays and also people just not being good enough at guild wars. There is little drive for the average player to get better. The only reason there are people at the top isn’t because of time played but because of their own motivation to push those boundaries.

You are wrong in your comparison but it doesnt matter in the scope of this discussion.

I think the second paragraph summarizes what’s wrong with PvP right now.

The reason why Dota2 is still more fun to play and more nuanced in terms of gameplay is because the map itself is well designed and the match goes through a number of stages which provide players with a unique set of opportunities to turn the game around. There is also the motivation to do sick plays because the said sick plays are actually effective.

In GW2 you can either do the play you mentioned, or use necro staff 5 or a wolf pet skill. Even if you do, it won’t necessarily be enough and would have no lasting consequence on the remainder of the match or the power level of individual players and the way you deal with them.

Ignoring the “you’re wrong” argument…

So you’re saying that a 4s aoe terror fear wouldn’t + 6 bleed stacks/immob wouldn’t impact a team fight? Team fights often decide entire game.

Is it not impactful because there are too many ways that it could be countered? Too many aoe condi cleanses? Then, doesn’t that just mean that the team on the offensive has done a poor job to bait out those clears first? Then… that would mean Guild Wars 2 is just too hard for those on the offensive? Wouldn’t that mean Guild Wars is too complex compared to say, Dota 2?

StickerHappy.8052:

Akikaze.1307:

Toxsa.2701:

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Fresh Air.

kitten toxsa how many pvp matches do you have! 200? What a joke. What does fresh ai run rabid? LOL.

Way to tell someone l2p….

Obviously Fresh Air runs soldier you noob.

BTW guys don’t forget to mod DFTC on your channels

Love me some WOW!

Arken.3725:

Love me some WOW!

I love everyone that’s why I’m the best mod

Eurantien.4632:

Ignoring the “you’re wrong” argument…

So you’re saying that a 4s aoe terror fear wouldn’t + 6 bleed stacks/immob wouldn’t impact a team fight? Team fights often decide entire game.

Is it not impactful because there are too many ways that it could be countered? Too many aoe condi cleanses? Then, doesn’t that just mean that the team on the offensive has done a poor job to bait out those clears first? Then… that would mean Guild Wars 2 is just too hard for those on the offensive? Wouldn’t that mean Guild Wars is too complex compared to say, Dota 2?

To the same extent as something like Calldown and Golems into RP Skewer? No. Not even close. Nor would it look or feel anywhere as cool or have a lasting effect on how the rest of the game progresses.

GW2 feels confusing at times, but not because it’s complex but rather because the PvP is badly designed. The pace feels off, the power levels of everyone involved are a complete rollercoaster and the key objective feels unclear. There are things like trebs, beasts and guild lords but the bonuses they provide are too different. It makes you wonder why these things are even there. Maybe this equates to complexity, but it feels like bad design and the fact that noone cares about GW2 PvP while Dota2 hosts multimillion championships each year proves it.

Dota2 is extremely complex, with hundreds of skills and items each with a unique set of strengths and weaknesses. No match is different because every decision, every item purchase, even the roster of heroes on each team has a lasting effect on the match. Because the matches are long, they feel more rewarding as well and offer more opportunity to screw up and come back from it. At the same time, the core of the game stays the same, which makes it less confusing. Most importantly there is a nice balance between objective based play and the amount of murder going on. GW2 puts too much emphasis on objective control while downplaying the value of solo kills, ganks and team fights all over the map which ruins the fun. In Dota2, this type of passive objective based play is called ratting, at its strongest it was very hated.

The thing is, Anet also sucks at balancing things without killing them. Valve does a pretty good job keeping things at equalish power levels while preserving diversity of strategies.

Also, Dota2 segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.

tl;dr: dodges and stuff should make GW2 a great PvP game, but conquest, lack of support and toxic mechanics mean it’s anything but. watch some Dota2 or LoL highlights/pro games and you will see what I mean.

To me, confusing = bad game design.

There’s only two things I have issues with. Thieves who continuously fight in mid because they think they’re warriors and Ranger’s with GS who play like Guardians… just, why?

LB Shot… that skill is no more of a joke than a warrior’s unblockable killshot on rifle. I’m not understanding the point of this thread.

Spirigo.2897:

Eurantien.4632:

Ignoring the “you’re wrong” argument…

So you’re saying that a 4s aoe terror fear wouldn’t + 6 bleed stacks/immob wouldn’t impact a team fight? Team fights often decide entire game.

Is it not impactful because there are too many ways that it could be countered? Too many aoe condi cleanses? Then, doesn’t that just mean that the team on the offensive has done a poor job to bait out those clears first? Then… that would mean Guild Wars 2 is just too hard for those on the offensive? Wouldn’t that mean Guild Wars is too complex compared to say, Dota 2?

My game is better than your game

hide spoiler

To the same extent as something like Calldown and Golems into RP Skewer? No. Not even close. Nor would it look or feel anywhere as cool or have a lasting effect on how the rest of the game progresses.

GW2 feels confusing at times, but not because it’s complex but rather because the PvP is badly designed. The pace feels off, the power levels of everyone involved are a complete rollercoaster and the key objective feels unclear. There are things like trebs, beasts and guild lords but the bonuses they provide are too different. It makes you wonder why these things are even there. Maybe this equates to complexity, but it feels like bad design and the fact that noone cares about GW2 PvP while Dota2 hosts multimillion championships each year proves it.

Dota2 is extremely complex, with hundreds of skills and items each with a unique set of strengths and weaknesses. No match is different because every decision, every item purchase, even the roster of heroes on each team has a lasting effect on the match. Because the matches are long, they feel more rewarding as well and offer more opportunity to screw up and come back from it. At the same time, the core of the game stays the same, which makes it less confusing. Most importantly there is a nice balance between objective based play and the amount of murder going on. GW2 puts too much emphasis on objective control while downplaying the value of solo kills, ganks and team fights all over the map which ruins the fun. In Dota2, this type of passive objective based play is called ratting, at its strongest it was very hated.

The thing is, Anet also sucks at balancing things without killing them. Valve does a pretty good job keeping things at equalish power levels while preserving diversity of strategies.

Also, Dota2 segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.

tl;dr: dodges and stuff should make GW2 a great PvP game, but conquest, lack of support and toxic mechanics mean it’s anything but. watch some Dota2 or LoL highlights/pro games and you will see what I mean.

To me, confusing = bad game design.

You have terrible premises sir.
GW2 isn’t “esports” like that moba because Anet wasn’t trying to be. Plain and simple. Anet didn’t even mention pvp when they gave their intentions/goals/values for GW2!

You’re right, GW2 is indeed complex. Maybe a little too complex for the casual player. The game basically has two different metas! Top tier ESL, team vs team meta and low tier, solo or duo meta. Where rangers, guards and every other zerker class with “op” (they’re not) fire/air sigils. God forbid some one gets on a class that died on the April 2014 patch. The newer players wouldn’t know what to do and scream nerfs.

I would call Mobas a lot more unforgiving that GW2. You die, they gain a level, all of a sudden you have a snowball effect going on. That’s not in GW2’s Conquest at all. You die, you comeback as the same exact player you were when you started the game. Instead of losing experience and potentially “feeding” another player, you lose time and possibly a node.

“Also, moba segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.”

They’re algorithm doesn’t involve class stacking and duo and trio player comps. In spite a lengthier algorithm, Guild Wars 2 still has a better matchmaking. Maybe I just had bad luck on their matchmaking when I played that game for the first time. Who knows.

Interesting.

But I have no problem killing power rangers. So I fail to see what the problem is :\

while they can be easy to kill with the right builds it has to be admitted that rangers are getting a bit too much damage with their longbows as well as too much range

rangers max actual range is 1900-2000 this alone is unfair
too much cc access that makes even engies pitiful
wolf fear wolf knockdown and cripple ontop of that wolves have 1/4 attack rate , 2 spider immobilizes then theres the best elite ingame an aoe reaplying bleed and immobilize up to 9s without condi dure traits or runes wiht only 60s cooldown or sigils as well as the long range knockdown longbow skill

then theres the trait that grants opening strike with 5s cooldown after interrupting foe

rangers get 50% damage just by being 1000 range away opening strike gives them 150% more then 25% more plus stability and movement speed with signet of the wild

then if you add sigil of air and fire you cant argue with there being any imbalance when you can get sniped from 2000 range away while a pet cc spams you .

yes you can counter rangers but you’re as good as dead if you blew your cd while ranger will still take pot shots at you from far away they got a stealth skill just in case you get close enough .

then theres the ridiculously short cooldowns
8s on what basically equates to a long range mobile hundred blades
10 seconds on stealth
12 seconds long range knockback

Rezzet.3614:

while they can be easy to kill with the right builds it has to be admitted that rangers are getting a bit too much damage with their longbows as well as too much range

rangers max actual range is 1900-2000 this alone is unfair
too much cc access that makes even engies pitiful
wolf fear wolf knockdown and cripple ontop of that wolves have 1/4 attack rate , 2 spider immobilizes then theres the best elite ingame an aoe reaplying bleed and immobilize up to 9s without condi dure traits or runes or sigils as well as the long range knockdown longbow skill

then theres the trait that grants opening strike with 5s cooldown after interrupting foe

rangers get 50% damage just by being 1000 range away opening strike gives them 150% more then 25% more plus stability and movement speed with signet of the wild

then if you add sigil of air and fire you cant argue with there being any imbalance when you can get sniped from 2000 range away while a pet cc spams you .

yes you can counter rangers but you’re as good as dead if you blew your cd while ranger will still take pot shots at you from far away they got a stealth skill just in case you get close enough .

then theres the ridiculously short cooldowns
8s on what basically equates to a long range mobile hundred blades
10 seconds on stealth
12 seconds long range knockback

You talk as if we’re using a magic build of 6/6/6/6/6 with 4 pets on our disposal.
Also entangle has little damage on power ranger, you kind of mix up the stronger version of ranger: condition ranger, to power ranger.
CC-wise it’s miles away from engineer and necro. Wolf fear is terribly telegraphic and long CD, spider can be a pain but has low ai too, and sacrifices hard CC if you pick spiders. Also aside from Foefire, there’s not much chance you can just safely pew pew from 1000+ range, and many times you need to help defend nodes too. Stealth requires you to hit the target to trigger, so any blind, block, reflect or LoS abuse can counter that. RF can easily be canceled if fight at melee range and wasted their CD. Condition removal is terrible if run full glass, and sacrifices alot of utilities and damage just to pick up Survival the fittest.

Again you’re making it sound like we’re using a 6/6/6/6/6 perfect build.

Toxsa.2701:

Rezzet.3614:

while they can be easy to kill with the right builds it has to be admitted that rangers are getting a bit too much damage with their longbows as well as too much range

rangers max actual range is 1900-2000 this alone is unfair
too much cc access that makes even engies pitiful
wolf fear wolf knockdown and cripple ontop of that wolves have 1/4 attack rate , 2 spider immobilizes then theres the best elite ingame an aoe reaplying bleed and immobilize up to 9s without condi dure traits or runes or sigils as well as the long range knockdown longbow skill

then theres the trait that grants opening strike with 5s cooldown after interrupting foe

rangers get 50% damage just by being 1000 range away opening strike gives them 150% more then 25% more plus stability and movement speed with signet of the wild

then if you add sigil of air and fire you cant argue with there being any imbalance when you can get sniped from 2000 range away while a pet cc spams you .

yes you can counter rangers but you’re as good as dead if you blew your cd while ranger will still take pot shots at you from far away they got a stealth skill just in case you get close enough .

then theres the ridiculously short cooldowns
8s on what basically equates to a long range mobile hundred blades
10 seconds on stealth
12 seconds long range knockback

You talk as if we’re using a magic build of 6/6/6/6/6 with 4 pets on our disposal.
Also entangle has little damage on power ranger, you kind of mix up the stronger version of ranger: condition ranger, to power ranger.
CC-wise it’s miles away from engineer and necro. Wolf fear is terribly telegraphic and long CD, spider can be a pain but has low ai too, and sacrifices hard CC if you pick spiders. Also aside from Foefire, there’s not much chance you can just safely pew pew from 1000+ range, and many times you need to help defend nodes too. Stealth requires you to hit the target to trigger, so any blind, block, reflect or LoS abuse can counter that. RF can easily be canceled if fight at melee range and wasted their CD. Condition removal is terrible if run full glass, and sacrifices alot of utilities and damage just to pick up Survival the fittest.

Again you’re making it sound like we’re using a 6/6/6/6/6 perfect build.

thats the beauty of what i say its all accomplished by simply traiting 4/6/x/x/x

the wolf fear maybe telegraphed but its a garanteed hit if the wolf doesnt fear the target it ll knock it and if it doesnt the ranger will or the ranger will knock the target then have the wolf unleash its fear and knock and how exactly do you apply blind to a target 2000 range away while his pets cc you and all skills in game except a select few have a max of 1200 range , entangle damage isnt what makes it insanely strong is that its a 10s immobilize elite with 60s cooldown most elites ingame have 2 minute cooldowns and dont do anything nearly kitten effective maybe mesmer moa morph and thats about it .

the so perfect build you think i described is nothing more than longbow and 1 signet and the elite so theres clearly lots of room for variation

Saiyan.1704:

You have terrible premises sir.
GW2 isn’t “esports” like that moba because Anet wasn’t trying to be. Plain and simple. Anet didn’t even mention pvp when they gave their intentions/goals/values for GW2!

You’re right, GW2 is indeed complex. Maybe a little too complex for the casual player. The game basically has two different metas! Top tier ESL, team vs team meta and low tier, solo or duo meta. Where rangers, guards and every other zerker class with “op” (they’re not) fire/air sigils. God forbid some one gets on a class that died on the April 2014 patch. The newer players wouldn’t know what to do and scream nerfs.

I would call Mobas a lot more unforgiving that GW2. You die, they gain a level, all of a sudden you have a snowball effect going on. That’s not in GW2’s Conquest at all. You die, you comeback as the same exact player you were when you started the game. Instead of losing experience and potentially “feeding” another player, you lose time and possibly a node.

“Also, moba segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.”

They’re algorithm doesn’t involve class stacking and duo and trio player comps. In spite a lengthier algorithm, Guild Wars 2 still has a better matchmaking. Maybe I just had bad luck on their matchmaking when I played that game for the first time. Who knows.

You dumbed down what I wrote until it no longer conveyed the original idea that I was trying get across, then wrote a reply to that imaginary post.

First of all, Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports. For as long as the game was out they tried their hardest to get it into ESL spotlight and failed miserably because their PvP system was flawed on so many levels. Pros quickly understood that its a skillspam clusterkitten and left for the greener pastures.

In Dota2 there are also characters that are good at stomping pubs but aren’t used in ESL. Conquest is basically a moba map with all the phases removed, and extra emphasis is put on objective control. This means that the actual PvP element is replaced with running around a node. To make matters worse, every map has a random perk that can either be abused or acts like a complete distraction.

This gives way to toxic builds and mechanics I was talking about earlier. A lot of builds simply aren’t fun to play against. Also because everyone starts at the same power level, there are no means of shutting down certain builds.

Like I said it’s not a question of complexity but the fact that GW2 PvP is badly designed. What makes matters worse is that GW1 PvP was superior in every way and hopefully the new PvP map will convey more of the GW1 PvP.

In terms of complexity Dota2 is much deeper. In essence the game requires one to know every hero, item and strategy, which there are dozens. In contract GW2 complexity stops with your character.

This is not to say we should all drop GW2 and move to Dota2, though PvP in the latter is better in every way. I personally play both. Most importantly what I’m trying to get across, and what you don’t seem to get, is that GW2 PvP is built upon mechanics and strategies that proved to be utterly terrible with players in other, more successful esports games.

Conquest is basically LoL dominion, with Dota2 ratting, where everyone is a 6 slotted bruiser from LoL preS4 warmogs meta.

To those unfamiliar it basically means a lot of super mobile tanks on a map where sneaking in objectives is king, and doing too much actual PvP makes you lose.

Rezzet.3614:

Toxsa.2701:

Rezzet.3614:

thats the beauty of what i say its all accomplished by simply traiting 4/6/x/x/x

the wolf fear maybe telegraphed but its a garanteed hit if the wolf doesnt fear the target it ll knock it and if it doesnt the ranger will or the ranger will knock the target then have the wolf unleash its fear and knock and how exactly do you apply blind to a target 2000 range away while his pets cc you and all skills in game except a select few have a max of 1200 range , entangle damage isnt what makes it insanely strong is that its a 10s immobilize elite with 60s cooldown most elites ingame have 2 minute cooldowns and dont do anything nearly kitten effective maybe mesmer moa morph and thats about it .

the so perfect build you think i described is nothing more than longbow and 1 signet and the elite so theres clearly lots of room for variation

It’s not so perfect lol. You seem to be lack quite alot of knowledge regarding to rangers.
If you trait for just 4/6 and take 300+range without read the wind, you literally cannot hit anyone at 1000+ range. If you go for 6/6, you only have 2 points left, and there’s not many useful traits for ranger with 2 points investment only. Protection on dodge is 3 points in survival, and the only 2 condition removal traits need 6 points to work. If you do this supposedly “perfect” 6/6 build, you basically has 0 method to deal with condition. If you take healing spring to counter condition, you’d have very little sustain because the healing is just not enough, CD too long, and you’re stuck inside that small circle. If you take signet of restoration, you sacrifice one precious utility like lightning reflex, signet of hunt and so on. If you take survival the fittest as cleanse, you basically sacrifices the whole utility bars for the cleanse. If you trait for any sort of cleanse like empathetic bond or survival the fittest, you not only sacrifices numerous dps, but also sacrifices the quickdraw or read the wind. (Pick one to sacrifice). Wolves are also one of the most fragile pets out there, that Aoe field classes like Meta celestial shoutbow, D/D ele, staff ele, engi can easily kill them with the AOE spam.

One additional note, entangle is one of the most telegraphic elites too, that almost no veterans will be hit by it in dueling. Immobolize usually would be cleanse in first second if you don’t have another 4 condition covering it, which a power ranger cannot easily do. That skill is not as good as you think, and people pick that mostly to synergize with Survival the Fittest because there’re not much other options of cleansing. Honestly, condition rangers are much stronger than power rangers in conquest.

Toxsa.2701:

Rezzet.3614:

Toxsa.2701:

Rezzet.3614:

thats the beauty of what i say its all accomplished by simply traiting 4/6/x/x/x

the wolf fear maybe telegraphed but its a garanteed hit if the wolf doesnt fear the target it ll knock it and if it doesnt the ranger will or the ranger will knock the target then have the wolf unleash its fear and knock and how exactly do you apply blind to a target 2000 range away while his pets cc you and all skills in game except a select few have a max of 1200 range , entangle damage isnt what makes it insanely strong is that its a 10s immobilize elite with 60s cooldown most elites ingame have 2 minute cooldowns and dont do anything nearly kitten effective maybe mesmer moa morph and thats about it .

the so perfect build you think i described is nothing more than longbow and 1 signet and the elite so theres clearly lots of room for variation

It’s not so perfect lol. You seem to be lack quite alot of knowledge regarding to rangers.
If you trait for just 4/6 and take 300+range without read the wind, you literally cannot hit anyone at 1000+ range. If you go for 6/6, you only have 2 points left, and there’s not many useful traits for ranger with 2 points investment only. Protection on dodge is 3 points in survival, and the only 2 condition removal traits need 6 points to work. If you do this supposedly “perfect” 6/6 build, you basically has 0 method to deal with condition. If you take healing spring to counter condition, you’d have very little sustain because the healing is just not enough, CD too long, and you’re stuck inside that small circle. If you take signet of restoration, you sacrifice one precious utility like lightning reflex, signet of hunt and so on. If you take survival the fittest as cleanse, you basically sacrifices the whole utility bars for the cleanse. If you trait for any sort of cleanse like empathetic bond or survival the fittest, you not only sacrifices numerous dps, but also sacrifices the quickdraw or read the wind. (Pick one to sacrifice). Wolves are also one of the most fragile pets out there, that Aoe field classes like Meta celestial shoutbow, D/D ele, staff ele, engi can easily kill them with the AOE spam.

One additional note, entangle is one of the most telegraphic elites too, that almost no veterans will be hit by it in dueling. Immobolize usually would be cleanse in first second if you don’t have another 4 condition covering it, which a power ranger cannot easily do. That skill is not as good as you think, and people pick that mostly to synergize with Survival the Fittest because there’re not much other options of cleansing. Honestly, condition rangers are much stronger than power rangers in conquest.

you’re the one who doesnt get it im not saying it is a flawless build i just pointed out the insane gains it gets with such stupid ease entangle is not all that telegraphed either and is easy to land if you’re a competent player and again 60 second cooldown.
read the wind isnt necesary so 4/6 is still viable

Without Read the Wind the arrows skill range is 1200, with that little extra fall out like all projectiles. Without Read the Wind, players can actually strafe the vast majority of the arrows by alternatively pressing strafe right -strafe left – strafe right, etc. So to say 4/6 power ranger is amazing without Read the Wind is something that I find unsettling. Speaking of unsettling, you seem to lack the knowledge that once the dog goes into the knockdown animation the player who is the target can walk far enough away from the dog that the skill won’t hit them. That is to say, they won’t be hit by the knockdown unless they are standing still.

So please, provide more evidence for how power ranger is OP. I have yet to see any argument in favor of this. Instead I just see players who are in desperate need of an education.

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

If you can 2 v 1 with condi engi, quit playing ranger! Conquest is about holding points and most people don’t play condi because it kills slower than berserk and can’t stay on point like celestial. It favors a hit and hide style of fighting but if you can 2v1 with it even if you’re not holding a point, you should be able to win every match!

I find condi builds too situational and don’t work well half the time. Power ranger was the only class/build I could pvp well with right off the bat. They are the ONLY class/build that I feel can be effective enough in a 2v2 without coming close to their opponents. As an engi, nades don’t do reliable enough damage for me to fight from a distance and they are often too hard to land from far away, while pistol doesn’t kill fast enough.

Condi Guard is dope, but mostly due to retaliation and tome rather than the actual burn.

Spirigo.2897:

Saiyan.1704:

You have terrible premises sir.
GW2 isn’t “esports” like that moba because Anet wasn’t trying to be. Plain and simple. Anet didn’t even mention pvp when they gave their intentions/goals/values for GW2!

You’re right, GW2 is indeed complex. Maybe a little too complex for the casual player. The game basically has two different metas! Top tier ESL, team vs team meta and low tier, solo or duo meta. Where rangers, guards and every other zerker class with “op” (they’re not) fire/air sigils. God forbid some one gets on a class that died on the April 2014 patch. The newer players wouldn’t know what to do and scream nerfs.

I would call Mobas a lot more unforgiving that GW2. You die, they gain a level, all of a sudden you have a snowball effect going on. That’s not in GW2’s Conquest at all. You die, you comeback as the same exact player you were when you started the game. Instead of losing experience and potentially “feeding” another player, you lose time and possibly a node.

“Also, moba segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.”

They’re algorithm doesn’t involve class stacking and duo and trio player comps. In spite a lengthier algorithm, Guild Wars 2 still has a better matchmaking. Maybe I just had bad luck on their matchmaking when I played that game for the first time. Who knows.

Still trying to compare apples and oranges.

hide spoiler

You dumbed down what I wrote until it no longer conveyed the original idea that I was trying get across, then wrote a reply to that imaginary post.

First of all, Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports. For as long as the game was out they tried their hardest to get it into ESL spotlight and failed miserably because their PvP system was flawed on so many levels. Pros quickly understood that its a skillspam clusterkitten and left for the greener pastures.

In Dota2 there are also characters that are good at stomping pubs but aren’t used in ESL. Conquest is basically a moba map with all the phases removed, and extra emphasis is put on objective control. This means that the actual PvP element is replaced with running around a node. To make matters worse, every map has a random perk that can either be abused or acts like a complete distraction.

This gives way to toxic builds and mechanics I was talking about earlier. A lot of builds simply aren’t fun to play against. Also because everyone starts at the same power level, there are no means of shutting down certain builds.

Like I said it’s not a question of complexity but the fact that GW2 PvP is badly designed. What makes matters worse is that GW1 PvP was superior in every way and hopefully the new PvP map will convey more of the GW1 PvP.

In terms of complexity Dota2 is much deeper. In essence the game requires one to know every hero, item and strategy, which there are dozens. In contract GW2 complexity stops with your character.

This is not to say we should all drop GW2 and move to Dota2, though PvP in the latter is better in every way. I personally play both. Most importantly what I’m trying to get across, and what you don’t seem to get, is that GW2 PvP is built upon mechanics and strategies that proved to be utterly terrible with players in other, more successful esports games.

Conquest is basically LoL dominion, with Dota2 ratting, where everyone is a 6 slotted bruiser from LoL preS4 warmogs meta.

To those unfamiliar it basically means a lot of super mobile tanks on a map where sneaking in objectives is king, and doing too much actual PvP makes you lose.

…I’m not about to enter that lion’s den… i’m just going to hold my peace.

“Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports.”
Can you link a source to back up that claim? I don’t usually keep up with all the ArenaNet news and all the Dev interview streams.

So you got hit twice by a full glass LB ranger? Yes please, 15.7k killshot possible on these guys without any might XD -Much fun
https://youtu.be/uOSKkTf-U8c?t=32

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect there you go guys. GLHF.

Valkyrie.1794:

Rangers aren’t particularly wanted in dungeons, might as well let them have this in PvP, right? lol

Only bad players don’t know how to run a spotter/fury , spirit ranger in dungeons. People just melee bosses with their longbow, that is why rangers are hated in dungeons

Saiyan.1704:

Spirigo.2897:

Saiyan.1704:

You have terrible premises sir.
GW2 isn’t “esports” like that moba because Anet wasn’t trying to be. Plain and simple. Anet didn’t even mention pvp when they gave their intentions/goals/values for GW2!

You’re right, GW2 is indeed complex. Maybe a little too complex for the casual player. The game basically has two different metas! Top tier ESL, team vs team meta and low tier, solo or duo meta. Where rangers, guards and every other zerker class with “op” (they’re not) fire/air sigils. God forbid some one gets on a class that died on the April 2014 patch. The newer players wouldn’t know what to do and scream nerfs.

I would call Mobas a lot more unforgiving that GW2. You die, they gain a level, all of a sudden you have a snowball effect going on. That’s not in GW2’s Conquest at all. You die, you comeback as the same exact player you were when you started the game. Instead of losing experience and potentially “feeding” another player, you lose time and possibly a node.

“Also, moba segregates players based on time spent playing, and winrate much better than GW2 does. So there is a very small chance of a complete newb being pitted against a pro.”

They’re algorithm doesn’t involve class stacking and duo and trio player comps. In spite a lengthier algorithm, Guild Wars 2 still has a better matchmaking. Maybe I just had bad luck on their matchmaking when I played that game for the first time. Who knows.

Still trying to compare apples and oranges.

hide spoiler

You dumbed down what I wrote until it no longer conveyed the original idea that I was trying get across, then wrote a reply to that imaginary post.

First of all, Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports. For as long as the game was out they tried their hardest to get it into ESL spotlight and failed miserably because their PvP system was flawed on so many levels. Pros quickly understood that its a skillspam clusterkitten and left for the greener pastures.

In Dota2 there are also characters that are good at stomping pubs but aren’t used in ESL. Conquest is basically a moba map with all the phases removed, and extra emphasis is put on objective control. This means that the actual PvP element is replaced with running around a node. To make matters worse, every map has a random perk that can either be abused or acts like a complete distraction.

This gives way to toxic builds and mechanics I was talking about earlier. A lot of builds simply aren’t fun to play against. Also because everyone starts at the same power level, there are no means of shutting down certain builds.

Like I said it’s not a question of complexity but the fact that GW2 PvP is badly designed. What makes matters worse is that GW1 PvP was superior in every way and hopefully the new PvP map will convey more of the GW1 PvP.

In terms of complexity Dota2 is much deeper. In essence the game requires one to know every hero, item and strategy, which there are dozens. In contract GW2 complexity stops with your character.

This is not to say we should all drop GW2 and move to Dota2, though PvP in the latter is better in every way. I personally play both. Most importantly what I’m trying to get across, and what you don’t seem to get, is that GW2 PvP is built upon mechanics and strategies that proved to be utterly terrible with players in other, more successful esports games.

Conquest is basically LoL dominion, with Dota2 ratting, where everyone is a 6 slotted bruiser from LoL preS4 warmogs meta.

To those unfamiliar it basically means a lot of super mobile tanks on a map where sneaking in objectives is king, and doing too much actual PvP makes you lose.

…I’m not about to enter that lion’s den… i’m just going to hold my peace.

“Anets main goal with GW2 is Esports.”
Can you link a source to back up that claim? I don’t usually keep up with all the ArenaNet news and all the Dev interview streams.

Because you know I’m right. No idea why you think I’m comparing apples to oranges or whatever.

In fact, even if I were to just directly compare Dota2 and GW2, it would actually become apparent that the two genres are similar. The point is that GW2 is hellbent on building its PvP around mechanics and game modes that were proven to be anti-fun in a number of more successful games.

Just like MOBA games took the best elements from other genres, GW2 should learn from the esports success stories rather than trying to re-invent the wheel from the ground up. In fact, the reason why GW1 PvP was universally acclaimed was partially due to how similar it was to Dota by design. There was a nice balance between objective control and murder, with at least monthly balance patches keeping the meta in check.

Troll all you want but thats how it is.

Btw just google GW2 esports.

I really support this thread

Maybe if the shot had a longer animation it would be a lot nicer because the way things are it is impossible to dodge it and when you get hit by it you are a goner, you have to make up the lost ground and you get hit by the pet with might stacking and it really hurts and you are down to 50% health and then there is the Rapid Fire to dodge and it counters any pressure you have to put on the target

Am I in the WvW section or the PvP section? How much do you really think the longbow range really helps in PvP?

And for those of you complaining about getting shot with rapid fire from 2000 range while being caught in entangle and cc’d by the pet….. You are either a liar or an idiot.

The pet leash range isn’t nearly that good since it was nerfed a couple years ago and entangle’s range is 600. If you have a ranger in 600 range of you and you are dying to him then he is a better player than you and you need to accept that. Quit making excuses for getting outplayed.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Am I in the WvW section or the PvP section? How much do you really think the longbow range really helps in PvP?

And for those of you complaining about getting shot with rapid fire from 2000 range while being caught in entangle and cc’d by the pet….. You are either a liar or an idiot.

The pet leash range isn’t nearly that good since it was nerfed a couple years ago and entangle’s range is 600. If you have a ranger in 600 range of you and you are dying to him then he is a better player than you and you need to accept that. Quit making excuses for getting outplayed.

- Range doesn’t really matter
- You can’t run up to a ranger get feared by wolfie and entangled
- Ranger can’t walk back and pewpew you. Either that or you are idiot, fact!
- If you are within 600 range and dying to a ranger. The ranger was a pro player. Hard build takes much skill.
- No comments on stone signet or ranger downstate.

Sincerely,

Jim HUNTER, the longbow carrier

I’m a mediocre PvPer on my best days and I really don’t find Power Rangers to be all that scary outside of one getting a good position in a team fight. I really don’t see what all the cry-babying is about. Close the gap and watch their health bar melt. Really nothing to it. I kill Power Rangers quite often actually.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Am I in the WvW section or the PvP section? How much do you really think the longbow range really helps in PvP?

And for those of you complaining about getting shot with rapid fire from 2000 range while being caught in entangle and cc’d by the pet….. You are either a liar or an idiot.

The pet leash range isn’t nearly that good since it was nerfed a couple years ago and entangle’s range is 600. If you have a ranger in 600 range of you and you are dying to him then he is a better player than you and you need to accept that. Quit making excuses for getting outplayed.

- Range doesn’t really matter
- You can’t run up to a ranger get feared by wolfie and entangled
- Ranger can’t walk back and pewpew you. Either that or you are idiot, fact!
- If you are within 600 range and dying to a ranger. The ranger was a pro player. Hard build takes much skill.
- No comments on stone signet or ranger downstate.

Sincerely,

Jim HUNTER, the longbow carrier

So what you are saying is you have trouble avoiding huge telegraphs while closing the distance on a back pedaling ranger… Maybe PvE is a little more your speed.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Am I in the WvW section or the PvP section? How much do you really think the longbow range really helps in PvP?

And for those of you complaining about getting shot with rapid fire from 2000 range while being caught in entangle and cc’d by the pet….. You are either a liar or an idiot.

The pet leash range isn’t nearly that good since it was nerfed a couple years ago and entangle’s range is 600. If you have a ranger in 600 range of you and you are dying to him then he is a better player than you and you need to accept that. Quit making excuses for getting outplayed.

- Range doesn’t really matter
- You can’t run up to a ranger get feared by wolfie and entangled
- Ranger can’t walk back and pewpew you. Either that or you are idiot, fact!
- If you are within 600 range and dying to a ranger. The ranger was a pro player. Hard build takes much skill.
- No comments on stone signet or ranger downstate.

Sincerely,

Jim HUNTER, the longbow carrier

So what you are saying is you have trouble avoiding huge telegraphs while closing the distance on a back pedaling ranger… Maybe PvE is a little more your speed.

Exactely, should I dodge the tontruck-hitting longrange shot, or should I save my dodges for fears, knockbacks, interrupt, entangle, rapid fire?

And when I do get there, should I dodge Hunters Shot? In which he could safely hide Entangle. Or should I wait for his Maul and wtf do I know what?

When I do finally manage to get there, should I run as he uses Stone Signet?

To be serious, of course I know how to handle a Longbow ranger. But can’t you see how effective this build is for a truck hitting long range build? Too effective if you ask me.

You can stand behind objects. Arrows don’t go through walls, thieves and guardians do.

Your issue seems to be based on not having infinite dodges as well as an unfounded bias against ranger. One also cannot dodge mirrorblade, iberzerker, mirrorblade, illusionary leap. That’s 4 things for your 2 dodges. What about Engi? Where if you get hit you have IP on you, therefore, as the time of the fight vs the Engi extends the amount of things you have to dodge to not get hit by IP approaches infinite. Do you see the issue with your arguments here?

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Am I in the WvW section or the PvP section? How much do you really think the longbow range really helps in PvP?

And for those of you complaining about getting shot with rapid fire from 2000 range while being caught in entangle and cc’d by the pet….. You are either a liar or an idiot.

The pet leash range isn’t nearly that good since it was nerfed a couple years ago and entangle’s range is 600. If you have a ranger in 600 range of you and you are dying to him then he is a better player than you and you need to accept that. Quit making excuses for getting outplayed.

- Range doesn’t really matter
- You can’t run up to a ranger get feared by wolfie and entangled
- Ranger can’t walk back and pewpew you. Either that or you are idiot, fact!
- If you are within 600 range and dying to a ranger. The ranger was a pro player. Hard build takes much skill.
- No comments on stone signet or ranger downstate.

Sincerely,

Jim HUNTER, the longbow carrier

So what you are saying is you have trouble avoiding huge telegraphs while closing the distance on a back pedaling ranger… Maybe PvE is a little more your speed.

Exactely, should I dodge the tontruck-hitting longrange shot, or should I save my dodges for fears, knockbacks, interrupt, entangle, rapid fire?

And when I do get there, should I dodge Hunters Shot? In which he could safely hide Entangle. Or should I wait for his Maul and wtf do I know what?

When I do finally manage to get there, should I run as he uses Stone Signet?

To be serious, of course I know how to handle a Longbow ranger. But can’t you see how effective this build is for a truck hitting long range build? Too effective if you ask me.

Or you could use 1 of the many other counters to ranged damage in this game such as blocks, reflects, evades, etc. you could also just pop stability to ignore his cc all together.

You aren’t fighting a 6,6,6,6,6 ranger with every utility and elite on his skill bar. Use your brain to figure out what he is running. Depending on what he brings he will be extremely vulnerable to cc’s or condi’s. If he is running a more balanced build to make up for these weaknesses he won’t be doing the damage y’all are crying about.

In PvP you should either be on a sustainy build that can soak up some of his damage or on a bursty build that needs to know how to close the gap and burst him down before he can do it to you. Even necro’s don’t have the room to complain about ranger’s in PvP because you shouldn’t be engaging them 1v1 unless you can LoS them or get the drop on them.

And if you are going to make statements like this, “To be serious, of course I know how to handle a Longbow ranger.” then what are you kittening about? If you want to complain about broken specs maybe you should focus your attention on some of the cele cheese classes.

I always love to read arguments like these about my spec and class in the PvP section.

Makes me want to Long Range Shot people even more.

Skullface.7293:

I always love to read arguments like these about my spec and class in the PvP section.

Makes me want to Long Range Shot people even more.

Guys! Your qqing is just contributing to their 2000 range smugness

I play ranger, but its not my main class.
I don’t see how you can all defend this longbow spec so much.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I play ranger, but its not my main class.
I don’t see how you can all defend this longbow spec so much.

It’s pretty easy, we just put forth valid arguments of why it isn’t too powerful as opposed to the poorly constructed arguments that the ranger haters come up with.

Can’t deny that it’s too much, either the damage needs to be toned down, or the range needs to be reduced to 1200. 1500 via the trait is more than most classes can deal with.

Even engineers are having their range reduced on grenades, albeit they were kittene at that range anyway.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Can’t deny that it’s too much, either the damage needs to be toned down, or the range needs to be reduced to 1200. 1500 via the trait is more than most classes can deal with.

Even engineers are having their range reduced on grenades, albeit they were kittene at that range anyway.

^ Perfect example of why it’s so easy to argue against people calling for a nerf to rangers. His argument boils down to “it’s too much because I say so”

Looking forward to seeing y’all post examples of longbow ranger’s dominating higher tier PvP, and how they are the reason certain teams are pulling out wins.