Guild Wars 2

As the title says this is about loss of build variety with the patch.

This is mainly going to be due to the fact that they are simply increasing stats by 30% on amulets to make up for the stat loss from trait lines.

This in effect means you will no longer be able to pick an offensive amulet & get traits to give you + vitality/toughness or vice versa.

In the end it would be much better for build variety if they simply added back jewels- or added rings instead of doing a stat increase.

So what do you guys think ? Make your voices heard.

Definitely think they should add stat variety through more than just one amulet, but knowing Anet and how they scrapped that idea during pre-launch beta, I doubt they will, even though it makes builds a lot more fun let alone more builds viable.

I think, you will get with the new trait systems, more variety with the same amulet.

I mean, for example for mesmer more chance to customize a zerk Shatter build with different Lines.

So basically you’re losing stats line but you have access to more traits.

After that we need to see the general balance cuz some professions have more advantages with zerk amulet and other prof are forced to Be tanky to survive.

MarkPhilips.5169:

I think, you will get with the new trait systems, more variety with the same amulet.

I mean, for example for mesmer more chance to customize a zerk Shatter build with different Lines.

So basically you’re losing stats line but you have access to more traits.

After that we need to see the general balance cuz some professions have more advantages with zerk amulet and other prof are forced to Be tanky to survive.

For some classes yes there will be increased variety with a single amulet.

However other classes will be getting the short end of the stick due to lower base vitality or lower base survivability.

So the thing is short of increasing how much vitality some classes have at base you cannot really effect the general balance where this is concerned.

In the end its much easier (and less of a headache) to simply move the stats lost from trait lines on to jewels or rings (where pvp is concerned)

Or better yet, let us select 3 different (or same) stat combinations to decide our stats. Amulet, ring, earring, each deciding 33% of our stats. Suddenly a lot more builds will become viable.

Sins.4782:

Or better yet, let us select 3 different (or same) stat combinations to decide our stats. Amulet, ring, earring, each deciding 33% of our stats. Suddenly a lot more builds will become viable.

Id be perfectly fine with that ^ to.

At the very least however it it would be nice not to have so much of your stats dependent on the amulet.

I think the removal of stats from traits actually cleanses the game of a lot of ugly stuff, at the same time will open up more variety with getting to pick more significant traits.

This change will be the biggest shakeup in GW2’s history it will be exciting and take some getting used to (so much power being dished out). It might be horrific powerstampede (creep seemed inappropriate), it might be a breath of fresh air (speaking of 0 CD on it O_o).

It will not reduce build choices but increase them. Loss of stats is good because we are replacing them with more active abilities from our traits.

Coulter.2315:

I think the removal of stats from traits actually cleanses the game of a lot of ugly stuff, at the same time will open up more variety with getting to pick more significant traits.

This change will be the biggest shakeup in GW2’s history it will be exciting and take some getting used to (so much power being dished out). It might be horrific powerstampede (creep seemed inappropriate), it might be a breath of fresh air (speaking of 0 CD on it O_o).

It will not reduce build choices but increase them. Loss of stats is good because we are replacing them with more active abilities from our traits.

The problem however arises with thief, ele & guardian however that they more or less have to take specific amulets because others leave them extremely easy to nuke or condi down due to low base health.

If they would simply take those stat points lost from skill trees and put it on a second item (say ring or jewel) you end up with allot more choice.

Just putting all the stats on an amulet means you will never see a thief, guardian or ele using a good 7-8 of the 15 amulets if they intend on being any use because doing so leaves them easily nuked/killed by conditions.

If they would’ve just nerfed Warrior LB instead of buffing it we’d have more build variety.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Coulter.2315:

I think the removal of stats from traits actually cleanses the game of a lot of ugly stuff, at the same time will open up more variety with getting to pick more significant traits.

This change will be the biggest shakeup in GW2’s history it will be exciting and take some getting used to (so much power being dished out). It might be horrific powerstampede (creep seemed inappropriate), it might be a breath of fresh air (speaking of 0 CD on it O_o).

It will not reduce build choices but increase them. Loss of stats is good because we are replacing them with more active abilities from our traits.

The problem however arises with thief, ele & guardian however that they more or less have to take specific amulets because others leave them extremely easy to nuke or condi down due to low base health.

If they would simply take those stat points lost from skill trees and put it on a second item (say ring or jewel) you end up with allot more choice.

Just putting all the stats on an amulet means you will never see a thief, guardian or ele using a good 7-8 of the 15 amulets if they intend on being any use because doing so leaves them easily nuked/killed by conditions.

Well lets not go crazy, the panic strike thief won’t lose any HP with this change (btw its the most used variety). Med Guard will lose 50 HP with this change (btw its the most used variety). Ele will suffer from this change BUT the access to more traits with condensed functionality should make up for it (00266 eles get to be 00666 eles now with better traits).

Amulet/Ring/Ring using current combos at 50/25/25% of total stats. Similar ratios work as well.

MarkPhilips.5169:

I think, you will get with the new trait systems, more variety with the same amulet.

I mean, for example for mesmer more chance to customize a zerk Shatter build with different Lines.

So basically you’re losing stats line but you have access to more traits.

After that we need to see the general balance cuz some professions have more advantages with zerk amulet and other prof are forced to Be tanky to survive.

Ironically, this exact thing you said actually supports what OP is talking about. Less build variety. Less stats to customize into a build means less choices that are actually viable because you cannot compensate for losses in stats with traits where as you can at the moment … at least to a degree, you can.

That is being taken away with next patch, which means depth of builds is becoming even more shallow than they already are, even if you do get more traits it’s forcing all the trait stats into one source rather than multiple sources. There’s already a huge difference between SPvP and PvE, now it’s going to be even more boring in that aspect.

At least PvE customization feels as though it exists. SPvP is a completely different experience and is so much more boring / weak in terms of making a unique and strong build.

In fact, it adds more variety to some classes by eliminating/ merging useless traits that no-one with a right mind would pick them. It actually opens up way more “real builds”.

we might see more amulets being used as players may find the need for other stat combos. amulets that are not cele or zerk are surprisingly good right now, and with a potential 30% buff some of them are looking really interesting.

choovanski.5462:

we might see more amulets being used as players may find the need for other stat combos. amulets that are not cele or zerk are surprisingly good right now

Such as? Do you really need 900 toughness or vitality, soon to something like 1150? Cleric could be good on elementalist or guardian, but when they have around 12,000 HP at best, they won’t last. The rest is the slew of condition damage amulets, none of which are dire. Rangers can kinda swing one with healing power, but other than that, not really.

yeah this just pushes people further towards cele, which has already dominated pvp for so long now. On top of that celestial is actually getting buffed – 10% nerf in stats but 30% buff to all amulets including celestial. If the math in my head is correct it should give even more stats compared to all other amulets then before.

70/30, 50/50, 50/25/25 splits would be much better i think. Accompanied by a nerf to celestial and adding more combos.

Right now i see only celestial amulet (majority of players) and zerker seeing any viable play. With d/d ele and shoutbow getting so many buffs in this patch i dont think any condi amulet on any class is viable (which is a shame cause specialisation-wise and compared to now, there are some nice new condi builds).

shoutbow and d/d ele also heal so much and give so much support while doing excellent dmg that all the tanky/support amulets like cleric are out as well. And some amulets are inherently bad like assasins that they never saw any play and never will.

Variety is a problem at the moment. Just 2 viable amulets is not enough. Either change the amulet system or nerf celestial so that every build has to “specialize” and has its strengths and weaknesses.

Its a shame they buffed shoutbow and d/d ele so much, which where already in every match i played for years now. Just bringing these 2 classes in line would have opened up build diversity, shake up the meta a bit, see what comes out and how can it be further improved from there. But it seems we get another 6 months of shoutbows and d/d eles. But im not the best at theory crafting, i could be wrong, it may not be as dire as it looks.

At the very least there must be some completely broken engi build with stuff like that gadget trait and bunker down, that will annihilate everything until its patched in a day or two

Stilgar.6437:

yeah this just pushes people further towards cele, which has already dominated pvp for so long now. On top of that celestial is actually getting buffed – 10% nerf in stats but 30% buff to all amulets including celestial. If the math in my head is correct it should give even more stats compared to all other amulets then before.

70/30, 50/50, 50/25/25 splits would be much better i think. Accompanied by a nerf to celestial and adding more combos.

Right now i see only celestial amulet (majority of players) and zerker seeing any viable play. With d/d ele and shoutbow getting so many buffs in this patch i dont think any condi amulet on any class is viable (which is a shame cause specialisation-wise and compared to now, there are some nice new condi builds).

shoutbow and d/d ele also heal so much and give so much support while doing excellent dmg that all the tanky/support amulets like cleric are out as well. And some amulets are inherently bad like assasins that they never saw any play and never will.

Variety is a problem at the moment. Just 2 viable amulets is not enough. Either change the amulet system or nerf celestial so that every build has to “specialize” and has its strengths and weaknesses.

Its a shame they buffed shoutbow and d/d ele so much, which where already in every match i played for years now. Just bringing these 2 classes in line would have opened up build diversity, shake up the meta a bit, see what comes out and how can it be further improved from there. But it seems we get another 6 months of shoutbows and d/d eles. But im not the best at theory crafting, i could be wrong, it may not be as dire as it looks.

At the very least there must be some completely broken engi build with stuff like that gadget trait and bunker down, that will annihilate everything until its patched in a day or two

for dps war, I actually prefer assassin’s amulet over berserkers…it allows for better builds . but that might change after stats loss…forgot to mention that so I editted it in, sorry

Exedore.6320:

choovanski.5462:

we might see more amulets being used as players may find the need for other stat combos. amulets that are not cele or zerk are surprisingly good right now

Such as? Do you really need 900 toughness or vitality, soon to something like 1150? Cleric could be good on elementalist or guardian, but when they have around 12,000 HP at best, they won’t last. The rest is the slew of condition damage amulets, none of which are dire. Rangers can kinda swing one with healing power, but other than that, not really.

i run valk on warrior, i have a pal with a brutal HGH build that runs barbarian so he can auto for 3k with 28k hp, got another pal who feels like the burst lost from zerk > knights is worth not dying to thieves on mesmer. toughness is terribly underrated especially with all those fire and air sigils around. unpopular amulets work currently, and with the buffed stats i think they will be strong candidates. i can already see sw/sw lb settlers shout warr being a cool guy with burning on LB auto.

things like medi guards who are used to extra toughness will miss it. engineers are gonna miss that 300 power. those stats from traits make a big difference, and i think we will find people will still want them.

I obviously can’t be sure, but if we start seeing things like full condi teams we will see nearly all amulets used.

Valkyrie is okay if you have the base HP and can make up for the complete lack of precision. But that’s extremely hard to do unless you base your build around it.

I’m not saying toughness is bad. But even around 800 is starting to become excessive, especially if you’re a low HP profession. Offensive builds would love an extra 200-400 toughness (depending on starting armor and how they play), but you can’t do that in the current system. The closest you get is celestial, which is why it’s so prominent.

@Stilgar
You do realise shoutbow and d/d ele using cele amulet will be weaker than now because of the condi changes and no stats from traitlines right.

Sigmoid.7082:

@Stilgar
You do realise shoutbow and d/d ele using cele amulet will be weaker than now because of the condi changes and no stats from traitlines right.

not really, and even those slight losses are more then compensated. might stacks still bring em over 700 condi dmg. celestial amulet still benefits the most from amulet/trait changes (even with 10% nerf) and all classes loose stats from traitlines (and lot of non-cele builds relied on those stats to shore up weaknesses more then celestials).

Shoutbow got extra healing power from GM minor, 33% passive retal uptime, 2 stacks burn on autoattack, 20% lb cds (more blasts, more burn, more pindown), 1200 lb range, freaking burst mastery (which means more condi cleanse, more healing from adrenal health, more burning etc), might on weap swap, free defy pain, cleansing ire buff (not that huge for shoutbow but with BM you can use your other F1 more often) and lots of indirect buffs. And its still the same support machine – healing/cleansing/buffing/rezzing allies.

There is no way you can make lets say a condi ranger that can burn through those endless cleanses/health/healing 1v1 and not die (or run away leaving the point to the war) to burning, retal and hunderds of sigil procs. And that ranger doesnt bring 1/10th to a teamfight.

Same with ele, kittens even more boons now that ele attunment is minor, bonus 40% passive uptime on frost aura (thats 2s chill per hit 40% of the fight + 7s/40s from skill, unavoidable/unremovable), keeps the same sustain and adds either full fire/air for big dmg/utility boost (dmg, auras, might, speed, burns etc, whatever the meta ends up being) or goes earth for even more tank.

They still have everything – dmg, team support, healing, utility, sustain, mobility, condi clears, good disengage/reset, are 2 of the easiest and most forgiving builds to play (shoutbow especially is all time leader in this category, ele at least has to press lots of buttons, but they all heal and buff him so still very forgiving and effective regardless of skill), no real weaknesses.

Those 2 builds will still define the meta. Every team you ever meet (including most random teams in arenas) will have AT LEAST 2 of them (1-1 or 2-0) as the core of the team. and those 2 builds will still push out many otherwise viable builds/classes.

I could be wrong, not much of a theory-crafter. But for over a year now ive played thousands of ranked matches with those 2 builds dominating and not only being present in 90% of the matches but being a majority of the player base (making things very boring when 10 matches in a row you face a fully random team but still 2 shoutbows, 1 ele, 2 something else or something similar). and they got major buffs in almost every segment. I dont see them being any less dominant now. Hope im wrong but i dont see how.

Love the patch in general, love everything about the game, cant wait for HoT, hate to complain and almost never do, but pvp is getting on my kitten-ing nerves (even though im primarily pvp player with 5000 ranked matches across all 8 classes since head-start) cause of these 2 kitten-ing builds and their omni-presence.

Stilgar.6437:

-snip-

They won’t overnerf cele amulet, let alone delete it as it’s the only amulet, eles can use now in PvP to be usable at all, without vitality eles cannot use valk anymore either and zerker builds are automatically dusted by thieves god mode builds