[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
(edited by Fortus.6175)
Low hp classes and "defense mechanics"
1 2
Pretty much.
Imagine if Thieves lost access to all of their extra blind/evasion and stealth.
All they would have is mobility and be FORCED to spec for as much vitality/toughness as possible so they don’t die.
Mesmer/Thieves can afford to go full glass cannon so easily but Ele’s aren’t allowed to lol.
My 100% glass cannon Zerker mesmer has more survivability than my tanky built Ele with defensive cantrips, how sad is that?
If anything, Mesmers should’ve had swapped base health values with Ele. Ele’s already have to deal with managing a ton of abilities and very clunky attunement cooldowns.
Ele’s kind of feel like a cross between Guardian and Thief but with the worst of both worlds. What I mean is, Ele’s are meant to take hits like Guardian, and use healing/protective skills to take it (Aura abilities also show this is meant to be), but then Ele is also supposed to be mobile and super glass mega burst like Thief, but the poor implementation left them stuck between both.
A squishy thief that’s supposed to take hits and heal it back up.
So then, all you can do is built tanky/bunker and just be a Guardian..
(edited by Knote.2904)
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Because of bunker builds?
Why should the whole class suffer because of bunkers? Which shouldn’t exist in the first place.
I never rolled Ele to play a selfish Bunker, I would’ve made a Guardian if I wanted that. But even then, bunkers shouldn’t even exist, those builds should be more focused on supporting allies than selfish unkillable BS.
no one is saying roll bunker.. js if you pvp’ed a few months back…. most ele ran a high support / survival build that was able to 1v1 and 2v1 most people… kinda like warriors now days.
no one is saying roll bunker.. js if you pvp’ed a few months back…. most ele ran a high support / survival build that was able to 1v1 and 2v1 most people… kinda like warriors now days.
That’s essentially a bunker..
Ele shouldn’t have to build tough/vit/healing stats just to have decent survivability.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
(edited by Knote.2904)
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?
The great forum duppy.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?
Yes but a guardian can run knight, zerker, soldier, valkiry. You go the guardian forum asking for viable speccs and the first 2 questions are; do you want damage or do you want support? Followed by weapon choice. You have an almost endless amount of trait combinations, I literally have retraited my guard more than 20 times and each time is a completely different build with new added bonuses and sacrifices that completely change my play style. Ye,s , guard cant play conditions, so what ? your point is? They can play about almost any other build. Eles? Bunkers or innefective kamikazes….how is that an option? You go to an ele forum asking for build and 9/10 times they end up with cantrips and at elast 20-50 into water/arcana. And only 3 weapons to choose from really.
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
Ahem… mesmer cannot afford to go full glass cannon. A full glass mesmer has noooo condition removal. none in their weapons and none in their skills. Clones only confuse absolute morons. And at full glass our damage is still subpar to a stunlock warrior or any form of thief and glass eles.
Ahem… mesmer cannot afford to go full glass cannon. A full glass mesmer has noooo condition removal. none in their weapons and none in their skills. Clones only confuse absolute morons. And at full glass our damage is still subpar to a stunlock warrior or any form of thief and glass eles.
umm, I play full glass cannon mesmer with arcane thievery, get some point for clones to remove conditions on shatter, sometimes I feel like getting clones to remove boons on shatter. Dunno but you might be playing mesmer wrong, I hav never played anything but zerker on it and do more than fine…
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
Ahem… mesmer cannot afford to go full glass cannon. A full glass mesmer has noooo condition removal. none in their weapons and none in their skills. Clones only confuse absolute morons. And at full glass our damage is still subpar to a stunlock warrior or any form of thief and glass eles.
umm, I play full glass cannon mesmer with arcane thievery, get some point for clones to remove conditions on shatter, sometimes I feel like getting clones to remove boons on shatter. Dunno but you might be playing mesmer wrong, I hav never played anything but zerker on it and do more than fine…
You are not full glass. You are 30 deep into inspiration. The only damage you kitten all damage by not going for iPersona as a glass build and phantasm builds in tourneys are not nor never have been viable.
Ahem… mesmer cannot afford to go full glass cannon. A full glass mesmer has noooo condition removal. none in their weapons and none in their skills. Clones only confuse absolute morons. And at full glass our damage is still subpar to a stunlock warrior or any form of thief and glass eles.
umm, I play full glass cannon mesmer with arcane thievery, get some point for clones to remove conditions on shatter, sometimes I feel like getting clones to remove boons on shatter. Dunno but you might be playing mesmer wrong, I hav never played anything but zerker on it and do more than fine…
You are not full glass. You are 30 deep into inspiration. The only damage you kitten all damage by not going for iPersona as a glass build and phantasm builds in tourneys are not nor never have been viable.
like I said, only do it every now and then, Im currently running 20/20/0/0/30, how is that not damage? Also, why the need to throw curses, does that make you a bigger boy?
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
iDisenchanter, Thievery, or Null Field is all my glass cannon mesmer needs.
20 in the POWER TREE, for condition removal on Torch is also fantastic.
Ahem… mesmer cannot afford to go full glass cannon. A full glass mesmer has noooo condition removal. none in their weapons and none in their skills. Clones only confuse absolute morons. And at full glass our damage is still subpar to a stunlock warrior or any form of thief and glass eles.
umm, I play full glass cannon mesmer with arcane thievery, get some point for clones to remove conditions on shatter, sometimes I feel like getting clones to remove boons on shatter. Dunno but you might be playing mesmer wrong, I hav never played anything but zerker on it and do more than fine…
You are not full glass. You are 30 deep into inspiration. The only damage you kitten all damage by not going for iPersona as a glass build and phantasm builds in tourneys are not nor never have been viable.
like I said, only do it every now and then, Im currently running 20/20/0/0/30, how is that not damage? Also, why the need to throw curses, does that make you a bigger boy?
I actually wasn’t cursing at you apparently g_i_m_p is a curse word when I said you kitten all damage by going 30 into inspiration outside of phantasms. Hence why I said you lose all damage by not going for iPersona. Also initially you claimed to be running condition removal on shatter which which would mean you are 20/20/0/30/0 not 20/20/0/0/30/ So make that mind up buddy.
iDisenchanter, Thievery, or Null Field is all my glass cannon mesmer needs.
20 in the POWER TREE, for condition removal on Torch is also fantastic.
Torch damage is really fantastic as well.
? <(^-^><)>^-^)> <(^-^)> ?
iDisenchanter, Thievery, or Null Field is all my glass cannon mesmer needs.
20 in the POWER TREE, for condition removal on Torch is also fantastic.
Torch damage is really fantastic as well.
Not sure why people would take Torch for dmg, but alright.
I use it for the blind/stealth and condition removal, which are huge.
iDisenchanter, Thievery, or Null Field is all my glass cannon mesmer needs.
20 in the POWER TREE, for condition removal on Torch is also fantastic.
Torch damage is really fantastic as well.
Not sure why people would take Torch for dmg, but alright.
I use it for the blind/stealth and condition removal, which are huge.
In that case yes it is huge however mesmer condi removal sucks unless they build for absolutely nothing else in which case we suck at everything else. But this thread is all about how ele’s defense mechanics are really lacking and such. While this may be true perhaps Anet should undo the nerf to cleansing wave in pvp as it was a little uncalled for.
Edit: And mesmsers would love for a heal/condition removal in a weapon set without sacrificing trait points for it.
(edited by jportell.2197)
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
“accidentally” ? lol, accidentally is giving a class an extra stun breaker on several skills due to some programing problem, not straight up giving them damage, healing coefficient, trait fixes, condition duration, more damage, capability to be 3x tankier than the old “OP” bunker D/D ele while pumping out 4x times the damage and utility.
If you think D/D bunker was bad in their days then I dont know what to think about bunker zoo ranger or bunker engi or condi necro who is as tanky but virtually melts you with conditions (funny, conditions were meant for ong drawn battles, to win due to attrtition, but 5-6 conditions in less than 3 seconds, nearly 25 stacks of bleed and anything short of 15 k hp will die in less than 4-5 seconds, and eles have 11k hp….so ….)
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released.
As if ele was viable the first 4 months when RtL (and Magnetic Grasp) have been 3 seconds self stuns. Also, it was the first class forced into defensive builds in a glass canon meta. That barely qualifies to be the “strongest profession”…
I can’t wait until ANet releases the game promoted in the manifesto.
Until that, I’ll play GW2.
Until that, I’ll play GW2.
If you think D/D bunker was bad in their days then I dont know what to think about bunker zoo ranger or bunker engi or condi necro who is as tanky but virtually melts you with conditions (funny, conditions were meant for ong drawn battles, to win due to attrtition, but 5-6 conditions in less than 3 seconds, nearly 25 stacks of bleed and anything short of 15 k hp will die in less than 4-5 seconds, and eles have 11k hp….so ….)
I’ve played against all of the above, thanks. Doesn’t change the fact that eles were the best profession for most of the game’s history. They’ll be fine, don’t worry. The last thing we need is another huge buff because a profession is “so bad” that only “massive buffs” will even make them half-decent.
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released.
As if ele was viable the first 4 months when RtL (and Magnetic Grasp) have been 3 seconds self stuns. Also, it was the first class forced into defensive builds in a glass canon meta. That barely qualifies to be the “strongest profession”…
Oh, you mean back when every dodge roll was a blast finisher?
Play an ele and be frustrated in every match you play. Ele right now is suited for masochistic players only.
“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
No ele is suited for good players currently. I heard positioning is important.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Play an ele and be frustrated in every match you play. Ele right now is suited for masochistic players only.
yah, sadly. I still play mine because i have invested so much time and money on it , im sill emotionally attached. I have found guardian to be quite effective but the transition is a little hard. Perhaps as more eles abandon the class the more attention it draws to it.
Im sure ANet is slightly aware of the problem, but I kinda lost my faith when they said eles were “ok” in the last SoTG
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
People seem to confuse a good with bunker with being the strongest profession in the game. Unable to “kill” an Ele because they were all bunker. How many of them died to the ele? Certainly less people then the amount that die to engy or gaurdian bunker currently.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?
Ele’s can’t do conditions either. In fact, they do less then Guardians.
kittenNo ele is suited for good players currently. I heard positioning is important.
You can’t “position” out of an instant necro mark or a stealthed player. You can’t “position” on a capture point smaller then most AoE’s. You can’t “position” while stunned.
Conditions and lots of boon hate have really taken their toll.
That actually doesn’t bother me quite so much, it’s the warriors who ignore every snare,stun, and cripple i throw at them that bothers me. Insane condition cleasning, huge health regeneration, you would have to cast two spells per second for the ele signet to have the same level of effectiveness, too much stability, practically immune to any sort of stun or snare, gigantic stun with practically no telegraph and a piddly 7 seconds recharge, and lots of damage.
With so much boon hate, our tiny health pool does not last. Even if boons were as effective as they were before, you’d still have no glass cannon option. There is no choice but to bunker with such a tiny health pool. Attunement cooldowns are rather large. Arcane reduces it by 60%. Look at other class’s special stats, 30% recharge is all they can get at max, and they can do quite well even without it either way. Attunement swapping’s base cooldown needs to be reduced, and arcane’s bonus needs to be set much lower so it is not mandatory.
The way things are right now means that you already have 40 to 60 of your trait points taken away if you don’t want to die in one hit or get stuck in an attunement for forever.
People seem to confuse a good with bunker with being the strongest profession in the game. Unable to “kill” an Ele because they were all bunker. How many of them died to the ele? Certainly less people then the amount that die to engy or gaurdian bunker currently.
Might stacking. S/D. Seriously, it was powerful stuff.
Back to the present: yes, eles are in a bit of a tight spot right now. I’m just trying to stop people from overreacting like we did in buffing warrior/necro. Eles are a well-designed profession with a lot of stuff going for them. They’ll come out all right.
Mesmer and Elementalists can draw quite a few parralels right now as far as their position in the meta goes, recent changes have rendered them significantly less effective than what they were previously.
But Im pretty sure an Ele can bunker somewhere along the lines of infinity more effectively than a Mesmer can, they rely a bit more on boon spamming that Mesmers do, so this meta is a bit more painful for them but the tools for survivability are there.
Even with the meta as it is, Id say Eles are in a better spot than Mesmers, as a Mes you effectively have 1 utility slot and a single build to play with in Tpvp, however good that one build may be, its still one build, its been this way since launch and every balance patch makes the problem worse.
25/90 never forget.
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
People seem to confuse a good with bunker with being the strongest profession in the game. Unable to “kill” an Ele because they were all bunker. How many of them died to the ele? Certainly less people then the amount that die to engy or gaurdian bunker currently.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?Ele’s can’t do conditions either. In fact, they do less then Guardians.
No ele is suited for good players currently. I heard positioning is important.
You can’t “position” out of an instant necro mark or a stealthed player. You can’t “position” on a capture point smaller then most AoE’s. You can’t “position” while stunned.
You can completely lol. Its called waiting in the back going in using your burst + blast finishers to help your team and kill the enemy team. Then you get out. Your an ele lol you should be in very back waiting. Not lawl lets run around in the cleave and infront of stun wqrrqirs. Last time i checked as an ele you have access to chill. You can use ride the lightining to get away you can use lighting flash to get away. Kitting is hard.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
(edited by Derps.7421)
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
People seem to confuse a good with bunker with being the strongest profession in the game. Unable to “kill” an Ele because they were all bunker. How many of them died to the ele? Certainly less people then the amount that die to engy or gaurdian bunker currently.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?Ele’s can’t do conditions either. In fact, they do less then Guardians.
No ele is suited for good players currently. I heard positioning is important.
You can’t “position” out of an instant necro mark or a stealthed player. You can’t “position” on a capture point smaller then most AoE’s. You can’t “position” while stunned.
You can completely lol. Its called waiting in the back going in using your burst + blast finishers to help your team and kill the enemy team. Then you get out. Your an ele lol you should be in very back waiting. Not lawl lets run around in the cleave and infront of stun wqrrqirs. Last time i checked as an ele you have access to chill. You can use ride the lightining to get away you can use lighting flash to get away. Kitting is hard.
Waiting in the back? For what? For an opening a thief could have exploited 10 seconds earlier and gotten away easier? There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed. Also, the only Chill S/D has is Frost Aura, which requires to start being hit. Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
People seem to confuse a good with bunker with being the strongest profession in the game. Unable to “kill” an Ele because they were all bunker. How many of them died to the ele? Certainly less people then the amount that die to engy or gaurdian bunker currently.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?Ele’s can’t do conditions either. In fact, they do less then Guardians.
No ele is suited for good players currently. I heard positioning is important.
You can’t “position” out of an instant necro mark or a stealthed player. You can’t “position” on a capture point smaller then most AoE’s. You can’t “position” while stunned.
You can completely lol. Its called waiting in the back going in using your burst + blast finishers to help your team and kill the enemy team. Then you get out. Your an ele lol you should be in very back waiting. Not lawl lets run around in the cleave and infront of stun wqrrqirs. Last time i checked as an ele you have access to chill. You can use ride the lightining to get away you can use lighting flash to get away. Kitting is hard.
Waiting in the back? For what? For an opening a thief could have exploited 10 seconds earlier and gotten away easier? There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed. Also, the only Chill S/D has is Frost Aura, which requires to start being hit. Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.
Sigh some ele you are.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
People seem to confuse a good with bunker with being the strongest profession in the game. Unable to “kill” an Ele because they were all bunker. How many of them died to the ele? Certainly less people then the amount that die to engy or gaurdian bunker currently.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?Ele’s can’t do conditions either. In fact, they do less then Guardians.
No ele is suited for good players currently. I heard positioning is important.
You can’t “position” out of an instant necro mark or a stealthed player. You can’t “position” on a capture point smaller then most AoE’s. You can’t “position” while stunned.
You can completely lol. Its called waiting in the back going in using your burst + blast finishers to help your team and kill the enemy team. Then you get out. Your an ele lol you should be in very back waiting. Not lawl lets run around in the cleave and infront of stun wqrrqirs. Last time i checked as an ele you have access to chill. You can use ride the lightining to get away you can use lighting flash to get away. Kitting is hard.
Waiting in the back? For what? For an opening a thief could have exploited 10 seconds earlier and gotten away easier? There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed. Also, the only Chill S/D has is Frost Aura, which requires to start being hit. Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.
Sigh some ele you are.
That’s a great come back. Let me know when you have an actual response. So far your counter arguments have been “must not be any good” “some ele you are” and “lol, ele requires a high skill floor”.
I feel like some of the complaints are a little exaggerated here. The current role that an ele can play are pretty dumb, but its not that everything we can do is useless. The issue with ele comes down to very poor risk/reward.
Low-hp classes are supposed to have defensive mechanics that help them survive.
-For guardian, they have aegis/blocks, boons, healing, and all their survival utils also give support.
-For thieves, they have stealth/mobility and can provide limited support with some of their utils (agility signet and shadow refuge)
-For ele, you have a couple of burst heals and some boons to keep yourself up. They used to have mobility, but that is just trash now. Your utilities are completely selfish aside from mist-form to protect yourself while trying to res. You provide support by giving out short duration of boons frequently in a small area, laying down some fields, and stacking some might.
The problem with ele, is that the burst heals are so much less effective now, the cleansing is so much less effective, and the mobility is non-existent. A bunker ele is susceptible to both high-burst and condis, and bunker is supposed to counter burst. A sustained-damage ele (i.e. dps d/d) does very sub-par damage for the survivability, and dies to burst, cc, and conditions. A glass ele does slightly more damage than a burst thief or mesmer, but gives up all semblance of survivability for that small +delta. Sure, an ele can easily bring moderate group support with elemental attunement, but you aren’t giving any support if you are dead. The trade-offs of any build lead a reasonable person to simply make the conclusion that they might as well take another class.
to be fair… elementalist have the most strongest burst heals, eaiest acess to stability/protection…. this meta just happens to have too much damage, and boon hate for them to survive…
bur if you remember, before necro/spirit rangers, there was countless threads about how this low HP class was impossible to kill on 1v1 :p
Exactly, ele was the strongest profession in PvP for about 8 months out of the 13 the game has been released. Just because some other professions got accidentally overbuffed recently doesn’t make the ele bad or poorly-designed.
People seem to confuse a good with bunker with being the strongest profession in the game. Unable to “kill” an Ele because they were all bunker. How many of them died to the ele? Certainly less people then the amount that die to engy or gaurdian bunker currently.
If other squishy classes can get away with going glass and make up for it with their class mechanics/abilities then Ele should too.
If you go glass on Ele you die instantly lol.
Eles can put on zerkers but they’re arguably inferior at it.
However so what? Some amulets suit other professions better based on how that prof plays.
For instance how much sense does a Shaman amulet make on a guardian when their only condition is burning? Not much, but so what?Ele’s can’t do conditions either. In fact, they do less then Guardians.
No ele is suited for good players currently. I heard positioning is important.
You can’t “position” out of an instant necro mark or a stealthed player. You can’t “position” on a capture point smaller then most AoE’s. You can’t “position” while stunned.
You can completely lol. Its called waiting in the back going in using your burst + blast finishers to help your team and kill the enemy team. Then you get out. Your an ele lol you should be in very back waiting. Not lawl lets run around in the cleave and infront of stun wqrrqirs. Last time i checked as an ele you have access to chill. You can use ride the lightining to get away you can use lighting flash to get away. Kitting is hard.
Waiting in the back? For what? For an opening a thief could have exploited 10 seconds earlier and gotten away easier? There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed. Also, the only Chill S/D has is Frost Aura, which requires to start being hit. Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.
Sigh some ele you are.
That’s a great come back. Let me know when you have an actual response. So far your counter arguments have been “must not be any good” “some ele you are” and “lol, ele requires a high skill floor”.
You said this “Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.” AND you said this "There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed."
Thats how i know you do not play ele very well or even at all.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
You said this “Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.” AND you said this "There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed."
Thats how i know you do not play ele very well or even at all.
That’s a great come back. Let me know when you have an actual response. So far your counter arguments have been “must not be any good” “some ele you are” and “lol, ele requires a high skill floor”.
You said this “Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.” AND you said this "There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed."
Thats how i know you do not play ele very well or even at all.That’s a great come back. Let me know when you have an actual response. So far your counter arguments have been “must not be any good” “some ele you are” and “lol, ele requires a high skill floor”.
If you want i and my friend can teach you how to play ele. Add me in game and we will set you up.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
You said this “Also, you use RtL and LF in your burst rotation. You don’t have them to get away, sorry. Also, you CAN’T KITE AND DO DAMAGE at the same time as S/D.” AND you said this "There’s no “magic opening” that you’re speaking of because your skills are so incredibly telegraphed."
Thats how i know you do not play ele very well or even at all.That’s a great come back. Let me know when you have an actual response. So far your counter arguments have been “must not be any good” “some ele you are” and “lol, ele requires a high skill floor”.
Please ignore him, he has been purposely trying to derail the thread and provoke the people. It is a shame mods dont take action against such obvious trolls which add nothing to the discussion with detrimental comments plagued with “LOLOLOZ L2P N0Obz” but with a little more “sugarcoating” so it isnt as obvious. Remember, if you dont feed the trolls they will starve.
@topic:
I feel like some of the complaints are a little exaggerated here. The current role that an ele can play are pretty dumb, but its not that everything we can do is useless. The issue with ele comes down to very poor risk/reward.
You exposed several good posts which make this response too long so I wont paste it all, but basically you have to realize that, back then the warrior and necros were strong, only that not many people knew it, if you look at the patch notes that lead to their “rebirth”, their actually werent enough to warrant that. They were already strong from the start and even the “pros” were admitting that some stuff were unneeded, in fact, a necro player in the SoTG said that he already could bring that much destruction on his necro, the only thing they did was make it more available to everyone. As for eles, are you aware of how many ele “pros” have quited the class because even when playing top notch they fall behind the rest? Are you aware of how many times these top notch eles have said that the “skill floor ceiling” excuse is just a poor excuse to not implement much needed fixes?
Truth of the matter is; eles do are in a much worse state than people want to admit, since they are still scarred by the old D/D and they simply hate us (despite most of us not ever liked nor played that specc) leaving people who have always played staff and S/F on the dust.
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
lol not at all. I am just tired seeing people qq about ele. Some of the qq is justified but most of it isnt. If you honestly want to see the full potential of ele add me. My friend and i would love to help you destroy as this class.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
ya ele runs 30 water 30 arcane. maybe sometimes 20/30 or 30/20 but im unaware of any meta build that didnt put 50+ into those 2 trees.
meh, the gameplay isnt even fun why do i care about balance?
ya ele runs 30 water 30 arcane. maybe sometimes 20/30 or 30/20 but im unaware of any meta build that didnt put 50+ into those 2 trees.
meh, the gameplay isnt even fun why do i care about balance?
Because you want to believe, that maybe they might get some love. You know, peopel often ridiculize when someone get “attached” to a character in an “online game”, but they have to realize, that when you put time and effort into something, that something gains value. You, like many others want to see what we deserve, and right now we are only getting kicks in the groins patch after patch
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
Truth of the matter is; eles do are in a much worse state than people want to admit, since they are still scarred by the old D/D and they simply hate us (despite most of us not ever liked nor played that specc) leaving people who have always played staff and S/F on the dust.
The reasons for this hate..have never been clarified.
All I ever read was : " can’t kill ele too much healing..too annoying to fight", basically the old ele was an overly effective bunker and nothing else, the Devs in their attempt to bring down the bunker spec they nerfed everything else along the road leading the ele to state it is in now.
Eles had a single effective bunker build and they nerfed it, that bunker build was created out of necessity from the ele community as the basic ele was already considered UP, as I explained in other thread the design concept of the ele is flawed and completely illogical.
Ele is “jack of all trades..but master of none”, still the devs in their blind attempt to please the pre-release nerf cries , decided to add an inherent low base survivability and poof, the ele on top of being designed to be mediocre at everything it now has the lowest base survivability.
The only thing left was to invest as much as possible in survival traits, now that aspect of the ele has been nerfed , there is nothing left now to compensate for the innate low survivability which is clearly below medium level, therefore the ele is even in a worst state compared to Sept 2012.
The base survivability must be brought up:
1) Reduce CD on attunements
2) Increase base HP or reduce CD of water healing skills ( cleansing wave at 25s CD )
and reduce the nerf on healing trait ( healing ripple -EA cleansing water ) from 50% to 25%
Truth of the matter is; eles do are in a much worse state than people want to admit, since they are still scarred by the old D/D and they simply hate us (despite most of us not ever liked nor played that specc) leaving people who have always played staff and S/F on the dust.
The reasons for this hate..have never been clarified.
All I ever read was : " can’t kill ele too much healing..too annoying to fight", basically the old ele was an overly effective bunker and nothing else, the Devs in their attempt to bring down the bunker spec they nerfed everything else along the road leading the ele to state it is in now.Eles had a single effective bunker build and they nerfed it, that bunker build was created out of necessity from the ele community as the basic ele was already considered UP, as I explained in other thread the design concept of the ele is flawed and completely illogical.
Ele is “jack of all trades..but master of none”, still the devs in their blind attempt to please the pre-release nerf cries , decided to add an inherent low base survivability and poof, the ele on top of being designed to be mediocre at everything it now has the lowest base survivability.
The only thing left was to invest as much as possible in survival traits, now that aspect of the ele has been nerfed , there is nothing left now to compensate for the innate low survivability which is clearly below medium level, therefore the ele is even in a worst state compared to Sept 2012.
The base survivability must be brought up:
1) Reduce CD on attunements
2) Increase base HP or reduce CD of water healing skills ( cleansing wave at 25s CD )
and reduce the nerf on healing trait ( healing ripple -EA cleansing water ) from 50% to 25%
This, on top of more protective abilities baked into Earth Attunement. Right now besides Focus, all Earth Attunement abilities are either CC or Dmg abilities, it doesn’t make sense, pretty much forced to take these super long cooldown defensive utilities to not explode instantly.
Also, make sure to nerf anything that resembles SELFISH bunkering by reworking it into being better for support. Sort of like how Guardian’s breath heal is worse on themselves and better on allies, and is even being buffed to reinforce that.
I want to see Ele that is one : not clunky with pointless attunement cooldowns that denies intelligent cooldown play, and two : be able to build glassy like other classes but able to use base abilities and on top of “player skill” be able to have decent enough survivability, then it can actually be rewarding.
This is also assuming Ele can’t do any stupid cheese like Fresh Air untelegraphed burst crap.
I think that Anet should drastically nerf the amount that Cleansing Wave scales with healing power. However, give it back the three condition removal it used to have.
Make Cleansing Wave cause a 2-3 second water field of 240-360 radius (although not the evasive arcana one). This way every elementalist build outside of focus, which already has solid defensive options, has some access to burst healing (which imo is what our defensive mechanic should be) and support, but it’s not too OP on the bunker builds. I believe that the current cooldown on it is long enough to justify this.
Give us back our stunbreak on Lightning Flash.
Give Cleansing Fire a buff so that it cleanses ALL conditions on you, that way it’s a utility that’s actually worth being used and the cooldown is more reasonable.
Drop the cooldown on Glyph of Renewal to 90 seconds. 165 is absolutely ridiculous considering that you want Elementalists to be able to support well.
I think that our elite skills either need to be reworked or that we need a new one, because in their current state a lot of us would rather take Reaper of Grenth as an elite for PvP than use what we have.
As for focus and fire traits, I believe that Lord Earle has made excellent suggestions for both.
Focus: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Brainstorm-Session-for-Focus-Changes
Fire + other traits (although I believe the fire traits are most needy in terms of change): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/The-Diversification-of-Elementalist-Builds
Our burst capability doesn’t need to be touched, in my opinion. Currently Elementalist has access to extremely high burst potential with the right builds, but the problem is that it takes so many resources that we’re practically sitting ducks (from both a defensive and offensive perspective) for too large a period of time afterward.
#ELEtism
So… Talking with guildies and other people I pvp with on a regular basis we are all in agreement that because of the meta, good condition removal, better access to stability, and a more forceful burst while retaining SOME defensiveness… Yes eles are in a better position than mesmers in this meta. Because of these simple things
1. Better condi removal through ether renewal and cleansing wave
2. Better access to defensive boons
3. Some almost instant burst with air skills.
All in all most people I PvP with on the regular agree that eles are in a better place than mesmers.
Add to this that any team we faced in recent tournaments with a mesmer lost every match. Team had a mesmer they lost. Team had an ele they had a much better chance of winning… Not to mention we had an ele as well.
So… Talking with guildies and other people I pvp with on a regular basis we are all in agreement that because of the meta, good condition removal, better access to stability, and a more forceful burst while retaining SOME defensiveness… Yes eles are in a better position than mesmers in this meta. Because of these simple things
1. Better condi removal through ether renewal and cleansing wave
2. Better access to defensive boons
3. Some almost instant burst with air skills.All in all most people I PvP with on the regular agree that eles are in a better place than mesmers.
Add to this that any team we faced in recent tournaments with a mesmer lost every match. Team had a mesmer they lost. Team had an ele they had a much better chance of winning… Not to mention we had an ele as well.
dunno, sounds to me like you are talking about bunker ele, since the only way you can have access to all that is through either cantrips water/arcana or water/earth , either case you wont be doing jack squat damage nor bringing any utility to the team, at all, since all those buffs with exception to attunement buffs are selfies.
Perhaps [definitely] those mesmers were really bad, I have no issues running a full zerker mesmer in the current meta and surviving, while bring chaos storm, stealths, buffs, damage, utility, etc etc, yeah conditions are a bummer but arcane thievery is not only awesome by stealing 3 boons, but also giving 3 conditions back, as for CC it has never really been a problem to me, blink and the other utility taht leaves a clone behind and stealths you are stunbreakers and instant.
I run GS/Staff 20/20/0/0/30 shatter zerker build and never had any issues at all. GS for when Im alone, staff when Im surrounded by people and Im with the team. As for ele? 1v1? dont even think about it! The rest of the match is tagging along someone until a opportunity presents to play like a wanna-be thief; wait and unload, once somone else does all the work for you. Thats how most eles play lately with the S/D build which is just that, a thief wanna be burster which unlike thieves, need to surrounded by mates who can set them up, who can keep them alive and god forbids you leave that mate, making you a weight instead of an asset
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Legendary SoloQ
I am actually talking about an ele running 0/30/0/10/30 and yes he is still using cantrips but his burst hits like a truck since my entire team can stack 25 stacks of might easy peasy. And those mesmers bad or not (some were actually quite good) were never close enough to their teammates to get support and none of them were instantly dropping anyone the way our ele was….
I promise you sir. Eles are in a better spot than mesmers thanks to having decent condi clear good stunbreaks and decent active boon defense may not be by much but they are in a better spot you also talk of bringing arcane thievery and blink. So that means you remove 3 conditions on a very very very long cooldown and you may or may not have it land thanks to how crappy arcane thievery is and then what about portal?… Are you just a troll with that statement? Also 20/20/0/0/30 staff/GS have fun with that. Why even use iPersona in a build where you are never in melee seriously it just makes no sense what so ever.
And its true there are some bad mesmers but every single team we faced that had a mesmer not only lost but got steamrolled…. Not even a chance… Teams with eles did much much better not too mention our team had a burst ele….
I am actually talking about an ele running 0/30/0/10/30 and yes he is still using cantrips but his burst hits like a truck since my entire team can stack 25 stacks of might easy peasy.
25 stacks of might makes anyone hit like a truck.
I am actually talking about an ele running 0/30/0/10/30 and yes he is still using cantrips but his burst hits like a truck since my entire team can stack 25 stacks of might easy peasy.
25 stacks of might makes anyone hit like a truck.
Okay it hits like a rocket ship then… Not too mention eles have better team support through better blasts and combo fields.
Blast Finisher=Team friendly
Leap Finisher=selfish….
I am actually talking about an ele running 0/30/0/10/30 and yes he is still using cantrips but his burst hits like a truck since my entire team can stack 25 stacks of might easy peasy.
25 stacks of might makes anyone hit like a truck.
Okay it hits like a rocket ship then… Not too mention eles have better team support through better blasts and combo fields.
Blast Finisher=Team friendly
Leap Finisher=selfish….
You can’t support your teammates if you’re dead.. like all the time. I play both ele and mesmer, and I feel the huge difference in performance vs effort between the two regardless of what spec I use in both classes. I’m not saying I’m pro. It’s just that aside from condi removal, mesmers are in a much better state compared to eles. Ele burst is a one trick pony requiring macro and stars to align perfectly well for it to kill someone in like once every 30 to 45 seconds. Ele bunker with 30water/30arcana equipped with all the condi removal and regen they could get, can still melt within seconds versus a necro+engie combo like any other class or spec, or have you ever heard anyone complain recently about how well eles counter the condi meta or its survivability against conditions after the hard, unmerciful nerf to the bunker ele a few patches back? I don’t think so. So yeah, mesmers and eles suck, but I find that I feel more useful being a mesmer in solo or team arena than I am being an ele in this meta. But that’s just me.
“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
I am actually talking about an ele running 0/30/0/10/30 and yes he is still using cantrips but his burst hits like a truck since my entire team can stack 25 stacks of might easy peasy.
25 stacks of might makes anyone hit like a truck.
Okay it hits like a rocket ship then… Not too mention eles have better team support through better blasts and combo fields.
Blast Finisher=Team friendly
Leap Finisher=selfish….
Dude don’t even try. These eles just want to sit around qq because they are having trouble. I have even offered to show them the power of ele, but all they want to do is sit around and whine and hope their class gets a buff so its easier to play.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
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