Guild Wars 2

There is no good reason to have an 8v8 match on a map made for 5v5. I don’t know about the rest of you but I don’t fancy getting overrun by 4-5 people while the other 4-3 bunker the other points. Yes, there are some 5v5 servers but kitten near every one of them I join are 1v1 “matches” or guild fights and I am shown the door.

Or they could let people play what they want to play instead of forcing them into the game size that you want. If people actually wanted 5v5 instead of 8v8, the 8v8 servers wouldn’t be the only ones consistently full.

to me it seems that 8v8 are full because they are on top and People are lazy. not more than that.

i generally think the 8v8 playstyle doesnt fit the tournament requirements and it is the badest way to get new Players into pvp. all they learn there is getting more glory by zerging. you will rarely get forced into a 1v1 where one could really learn something.

i would love to see it like no Server list at all, just a Play now button and you get randomly on a 5v5 Server which fills randomly (mmr) with equal Players (like gw1 random Arena).

@sarmach: everytime i join a 5v5 Server and there are 1o1 – i just ask if i can join. most of the time i get a hearty welcome. everytime i did so i get lots of very nice 1o1 matches and most of the People do enjoy it like i do and stay on the Server for many many rounds. just give it a try – beleave me, its far more fun than 8v8 zergway.

Caffynated.5713:

Or they could let people play what they want to play instead of forcing them into the game size that you want. If people actually wanted 5v5 instead of 8v8, the 8v8 servers wouldn’t be the only ones consistently full.

Zerging is the main problem in this game. Having only 5v5 servers would combat the problem in SPvP. This is one of those times you have to put the player feelings aside and look at the type of mentality the current system is making.

leveling in hotjoin becomes even harder.

Sarmach.1547:

Caffynated.5713:

Or they could let people play what they want to play instead of forcing them into the game size that you want. If people actually wanted 5v5 instead of 8v8, the 8v8 servers wouldn’t be the only ones consistently full.

Zerging is the main problem in this game. Having only 5v5 servers would combat the problem in SPvP. This is one of those times you have to put the player feelings aside and look at the type of mentality the current system is making.

Caffynated is right althoght
If their aim is to attarct <<medium-high>> WvWvW competitive players with offering rewards in PvP (like 3 winning daily achiv or collecting 500 glory u get a buff that increase ur XP-karma by 50% or 10% magic find- increased gold (with guild achiv those stats are doubled for 18 hours) ) , they can benefit also by attarcting the casuals with similar style of the WvWvW = hot joins .
Its better to improve the inteferenace , and when u speak to the hot join NPC , 2 options show up <<join 8v8>> – << join 5v5>> rather that discarbing any of them

There is plenty of reason to keep 8v8. During the majority of the match you have people leaving and joining the game constantly, as well as a few afk’ers before they drop from the match. It’s very rarely if ever an actual 8v8.

5v5 would be fantastic in a solo queue system with leaving penalties and a rating system that gives you incentive to win however.

Sarmach.1547:

Zerging is the main problem in this game.

Not really. Gates of Ekrund in WAR was a tiny section of wall with 3 cap points fought over in a 12v12. It was one of the the community’s favorite maps and had a battle space no larger than sPvP maps. The actual area fought over in a non-spawncamping situation was even smaller.

The biggest problem in this game is terrible map design. They’re even terrible for a 5v5, unless the game mode is deathmatch. There doesn’t seem to have been any thought put into how the maps should control the flow of a battle. All of the capture points are open and completely indefensible leading to a chaotic mess. There are few, if any, strategic points on a map that you would want to fight at besides the actual capture points themselves. There’s nothing to create battle lines.

If the maps were better designed, there would be less of a gap between high mobility classes and low mobility classes, because it wouldn’t be about moving from one circle to the next quickly. Instead, you would have a game built around controlling the flow of people through the map and preventing enemies from being able to reach your points at all. It would also kill the generally disliked bunker mentality without having to change the game mode.

Team fights are (at least for me) the most entertaining PvP type. 1v1 almost always boils down to who has the better counter comp/OP build. Team fights (what you want to call “zerging”) generally mask the weaknesses of particular builds and it becomes a game of skill and coordination.

The devs need to be working on the problems this game has, not masking them with duct tape and bandaids.

Caffynated.5713:

Team fights are (at least for me) the most entertaining PvP type. 1v1 almost always boils down to who has the better counter comp/OP build. Team fights (what you want to call “zerging”) generally mask the weaknesses of particular builds and it becomes a game of skill and coordination.

The problem with team fights in this game is that there’s basically zero depth to the combat and no coordination required.

Just compare something like a WoW rogue to a thief.

So what does a rogue have as openers and stealth abilities?

Cheap Shot for a short stun
Garrote for a DoT and silence
Ambush for a high damage hit
Sap which is a long duration cc on an out of combat target, does not remove stealth
Distract which basically forces a player to turn in one direction, limited use in deathmatch

And now we have combo builders, which require energy and build combo points.

Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Mutilate are the big ones. There’s also more specific ones, like gouge which is another type of cc, or Shiv which poisons the target with your current poison and removes certain buffs.

Then we have combo finishers, like Rupture (DoT), Eviscerate (physical damage hit) Envenom (kind of complicated, basically does armor penetrating damage and makes your subsequent poison more likely to hit), Kidney Shot (6 second stun), Deadly Throw (ranged cripple), Recuperate (HoT), Expose Armor (does the equivalent of applying vulnerability) and Slice and Dice (makes attack speed shorter).

And then there’s just basic cooldown abilities, Vanish (goes into stealth), Blind (long duration cc), Smoke Bomb (ranged attacks can’t go inside, or go outside the area), Evasion (dodge crap), Cloak of Shadows (remove magic debuffs, immune to magic), Kick (interrupt), Sprint (move 70% faster), Shadowstep (teleport to target), Shadow dance (can use stealth abilities out of stealth), Dismantle (disarm), Fan of Knives (point blank AoE), Tricks of the Trade (used for 15% damage buff to ally), Redirect (all combo points on one enemy are swapped to another), and a whole bunch more talent spec specific and MoP abilities they’ve added.

But the point is there’s so much more to do. What do you do on thief? You use the shortbow, use cluster bomb occasionally, swap to dagger, do the backstab combo, and get out.

Look at a really basic rogue sequence for rogue/mage: blind A + shadow dance and burst B+ sprint + sap on A after blind and shadow step back to B. (It takes 8 seconds to get out of combat, blind lasts 8 seconds, so if you time it perfectly then the sap can go off before the other person uses an ability)

That’s already more complicated and requires more micromanagement than anything in GW2.

im all for this. it would also equalize glory gains a bit so tournies could get closer to hotjoins for ranking up.

But but.. how am I supose to host a 2v2 tournament then? 16 slot is great since you can grab 8 teams instead of 5, which is an even number so you can match them up equally.

How about they leave 8v8 hotjoin be? The map I dislike the most is Raid on the Capricorn. Not because of the undrewater combat, actually I like that part, because it demands other skills and strategies. No, what bothers me about the map, is the way it’s constructed and how it appeals to a more zerg type play.

The map is small and very limiting on land, thereby encouraging zergs. There is one main road, which happens to be frequented very often, and mostly by someone charging towards the other cap point on land (of course there are those that just run through the ship, high-five the opponent and grab the point while others fight in the middle).

Now if you had an extra road between the two land cap points, things might look different.

kito.1827:

to me it seems that 8v8 are full because they are on top and People are lazy. not more than that.

Yup. That and I tend to find duels in 5v5’s instead of actual matches.

TBH i beleive the maps were designed for 8v8 more than 5v5. Especially the last map with many buffs ontop of points to control shifting people in every direction. Also the buffs to get + points for kills isnt as interesting when there are only 10 players vs 16 because not as much killing as happening, making those buffs more ignorable for 5v5.

Also, larger amounts of players means one person with bunker spec cant just sit on a point and gaurd it till the end of time. suddenly more people have to be shifted to gaurd a point as the likely hood of being over run is higher. AKA higher players counters the inevitable bunker flaw that comes with all king of the hill style maps…and is something they said in their original interviews that they were making sure that the it would favor offencive playstyle and specs.

So, no 8v8 is good. They only dropped it to 5v5 because 5 players is the sweet spot for E sport pvp as too many players makes it harder to organize strategy on the battle field, as well its harder to find 4 other players to form a group around than 7 in many cases. The maps and game style however is still designed for 8v8.

Caffynated.5713:

Or they could let people play what they want to play instead of forcing them into the game size that you want. If people actually wanted 5v5 instead of 8v8, the 8v8 servers wouldn’t be the only ones consistently full.

What people want and what makes sense don’t always coincide. Please cite the current popularity of reality TV as my source.

I still don’t understand how a game with E-sport aspirations would design a bunch of maps and classes for 5v5 tourney…and then decide casual players should 8v8 on said map. The classes and maps are balanced around 5v5….why is 8v8 even an option? “Casual” shouldn’t mean “worse” by default, and that’s what allowing 8 players on a map designed for 5 is – worse.

evilapprentice.6379:

Caffynated.5713:

Or they could let people play what they want to play instead of forcing them into the game size that you want. If people actually wanted 5v5 instead of 8v8, the 8v8 servers wouldn’t be the only ones consistently full.

What people want and what makes sense don’t always coincide. Please cite the current popularity of reality TV as my source.

I still don’t understand how a game with E-sport aspirations would design a bunch of maps and classes for 5v5 tourney…and then decide casual players should 8v8 on said map. The classes and maps are balanced around 5v5….why is 8v8 even an option? “Casual” shouldn’t mean “worse” by default, and that’s what allowing 8 players on a map designed for 5 is – worse.

Not saying your point isnt valid but just a correction. Maps were originally 8v8 only. Wasnt till months later they put in 5v5 as the number for ranked. Reason given in interview was as i pointed out earlier, its the sweet spot for team E-sport games and is more accessible for people to find 4 other friends vs 7. Maps however are not designed for 5v5, thats just what they decided upon for ranked.