Guild Wars 2

In an upcoming patch, ANet will lower the targeting priorities of all non-player targets, except mesmer clones. Mesmer clones will still have the same priority as players.

Whilst I agree that the entire point of clones is to imitate the mesmer and make her difficult to find, I still think that ultimately lowering their priority is good for the game.
The clones can be buffed in other ways to make up for this nerf.

Imagine this scenario:
- It’s really difficult to work out which clone is the real mesmer. But once you do work it out, it’s instant and easy to target them.

—> If this was true, then I would be perfectly fine with clones having the same priority as players, because the “skill” would be in recognising the real mesmer.

However, in reality, we have:
- It’s quite trivial to work out which clone is the real mesmer. But it’s clunky and awkward to target them.

—> This is why I want the clones to be reduced in priority, same as all other NPC targets. Because we shouldnt have an interface that gets in the way of what we’ve already decided to do. We shouldn’t be fighting the interface to get things done – the interface should be as seamless and invisible as possible.

Mesmer clones can be buffed up in other ways to make them still useful. For example, they could get some more HP, so they are more useful as shields against ranged attacks. They could (when traited?) cripple or stun enemies who move through them, so they can be used as defense against melee enemies.

I think it’s good design to reduce the frustration players feel with the user interface. It’s fine that the mesmer is a tricky and annoying class to fight, but my annoyance should be at the deviousness of my opponent, not how clunky the targeting system is.

Could be just me but it still takes me about 1 or 2 seconds to find who is the real mesmer, especially when they just pop 3 clones at once in a fight involving several people…
Still provides enough time for the mesmer to escape/get closer to their next cooldown.

With what you say I’d never waste some seconds here and there, and that would be too powerful.

So to solve your problem, here is my solution: add several types of target symbols.
From there, once you have figured out who the real mesmer is, put a cross on them and done – the UI doesn’t go in your way again.
Even that would be a bit dangerous as if I lose sight of the mesmer, then they should have a chance to be “lost amidst their clones” again for a second or two.

Frankly, I like the mesmer as it is… It is one of the rare classes I have ever seen in any game that actually confuses the player, as a person, not just add some boring debuff to the character on screen. Brilliant idea.

I’m bias since I love my Memser but shouldn’t the focus be on fixing the targeting system and not trying to balance a class around a system that needs some oomf?

Flamfloz.6732:

Could be just me but it still takes me about 1 or 2 seconds to find who is the real mesmer, especially when they just pop 3 clones at once in a fight involving several people…
Still provides enough time for the mesmer to escape/get closer to their next cooldown.

So to solve your problem, here is my solution: add several types of target symbols.
From there, once you have figured out who the real mesmer is, put a cross on them and done – the UI doesn’t go in your way again.
Even that would be a bit dangerous as if I lose sight of the mesmer, then they should have a chance to be “lost amidst their clones” again for a second or two.

Frankly, I like the mesmer as it is… It is one of the rare classes I have ever seen in any game that actually confuses the player, as a person, not just add some boring debuff to the character on screen. Brilliant idea.

I like the concept of the mesmer too. I guess the question is, when you fight a mesmer, do you find that identifying the mesmer is the part that gives you the most difficulty, or is it the targeting afterwards?

I suppose there’s a lot of variables – a melee player doesnt even need to target, just run up and swing away. A mouse-click targeter is either at a great advantage (targets are spread out) or great disadvantage (targets are all overlapping).

We have a target marker already, but it dissappears on stealth and then you need to do it again. Should it not dissappear on stealth, maybe?

ThatShortGuy.4672:

I’m bias since I love my Memser but shouldn’t the focus be on fixing the targeting system and not trying to balance a class around a system that needs some oomf?

That would be ideal, and usually I’m very active in UI improvements (I wrote an AHK script for mouselook controls, I’ve done UI modding for RTS/FPS games, etc), but I can’t really think of any good way to improve the targeting here. Tab-target will always suck if clones are equal priority, and mouse targeting is either good or even worse if all your targets are overlapping.

Maybe combine the two? Press [Key] to lock onto the target under the cursor, and then press [Key] repeatedly to scroll through targets under the cursor, nearest to farthest?

They really need to give us mouselook mode with crosshairs, though.

Mesmer’s clones are meant to make targeting harder (it’s their kitten class mechanic), so that’s why they have the same priority as human players.

It’s really not that hard. Clones are just shatter food, the real damage coming from Phantasms which are purple mist. Clones don’t last long enough to matter, unless they’re the staff equipped ones because then the staff 1 is actually useful. But they’re such low HP they won’t last regardless.

ok how to find the real mesmer:

1.clones dont dodge
2. if its a gs mesmer, clones doesnt throw the sword at u
3.clones dont walk backwards
4. new clones that pop up run straitght towards u
5. clones only use autoattack.

Wow no. Just no. Mesmers are meant to confuse the person behind the keyboard and even that doesn’t last long

If tab targeting doesn’t include clones then that pretty much destroys the key concept of the mesmer class—confusion.

The issue isn’t about the confusing part as much as the difficulties with actually being able to target what you want to target. With mesmers, even while it’s rather easy to locate the real one, tab-targeting is a pita to actually being able to target them, and so is mouse-targeting.

Mesmers gets the flaws of the UI to work in their favor way too much.

If you have a team fight going and you say “target the mesmer” within half a second someone will have a huge target over the mesmer. Mesmers have terrible condition removal, only moderate boon uptime (when compared to guards etc.), light armor and only one heal over time with regen. The time it takes for you to lock the mesmer time is necessary because that is part of their active defense. You guys are all essentially asking for mesmers to just roll over and scream “here i am here i am!”

jportell.2197:

You guys are all essentially asking for mesmers to just roll over and scream “here i am here i am!”

I asking for some form of UI improvements to make targeting easier overall.

Just what we need. To cater and make the game even easier then it already is…

OGDeadHead.8326:

jportell.2197:

You guys are all essentially asking for mesmers to just roll over and scream “here i am here i am!”

I asking for some form of UI improvements to make targeting easier overall.

Targeting is easy point and click…. If you click on the mesmer clone instead of the mesmer… The mesmer is doing it right and using their class mechanic to their advantage. Thieves get stealth, guards are supposed to face tank, warriors now have ridiculous regen, eles/rangers have mobility, engis have the best healing over time skills in the game, mesmers have clones and less stealth than rangers/thieves….
UI improvements sure I’m down with that. Saying that TAB targeting which btw is the laziest way of targeting possible should no longer prioritize a classes mechanic which is meant to distract and confuse opponents is asinine by itself its like saying you should be able to see thieves in stealth no matter what.

jportell.2197:

Wow no. Just no. Mesmers are meant to confuse the person behind the keyboard and even that doesn’t last long

Yep, I think that pretty much summarises the main point.

Finding the real mesmer isn’t technically hard and everyone can do it after a while (with variable success depending on circumstances)…
But the whole point is that this 1s+ that was wasted finding the real mesmer and targetting them works in their favour as it puts them closer to their next skills cooldown (and is desirable as well, as the class is balanced around this).

It would defeat the purpose of the class if players could just immediately tell the real mesmer with just a [Tab].

I dont think any player who knows what theyre doing actually struggles to seperate clones from the mesmer…

… Arenanet assumes were still playing in the brta or sonething .__.

For those who have a hard time…
go to options and unclick “Show all enemy names” “NPC Names” and make sure to click “Show all player names” Now you can see the real mesmer’s name tag.

“AdvanceSkillTarget” in the options is one of your best friends against minion classes…

I think everyone who is against my idea isn’t thinking things through.

We already admit that it’s not difficult to figure who the real mesmer is. The real tricky part is targeting them, especially in a busy environment.

Now, if you say, “That’s fine, that’s how mesmers should be”, then what happens if ANet decides to improve targeting later on? (eg. press key to cycle through targets under cursor.)

If the UI improves and the Mesmer’s advantage is reduced, are you going to argue against UI improvements as well?

I disagree that the Mesmer clones should provide benefit due to clunky UI. I think the UI should be made as good as possible, and the clones buffed in other ways so that they are still useful.

I feel like if there were buffs given in exchange for being able to tab target through clones I would take the buffs.

I agree. It shouldn’t be up to difficult targeting system if you hit the target or not. Mesmer clones have pretty much same problem than army of minions and pets. You just cannot hit the right target since you would need to cycle through so many targets. Once you finally manage to tab to the right one they go stealth or make another clone etc. whatever breaks the target again and cycle starts all over.

OR if it’s meant to be defensive mechanic to have clunky targeting then reduce other defensive mechanics so mesmers have to rely on tab targeting as their defense so if you ever manage to tab to the right one you can at least hit them once or twice.

As it is now it’s more like endless cycle of target breaking.

And to be honest in my opinions mesmers should not be able to make so many clones. I think it should require more clever timing than just spamming the clones around like madman.

You should not be tab targetting the mesmer. period..
Always mouse target :/ Better yet always Priority target.
The problem is tiny asuras really, 99% of mesmer population is tiny asura…
I would take buffs in exchange for fixing tab targetting,

Good players do not depend on it to fight me; so I don’t depend on deception anyway.

I play a tree.

How about:

A clear mark on/above clones?
A different color or visual attribute on caster or clone?
Or a personal marker?
A special targeting trait?
Have the protrait of the mesmer light up/flash when you target the real deal?

On the subject of markers, how about having your personal mark on target reapplied when coming out of stealth?

No see that’s going too far; you’re just killing the skill floor/ceiling of the game.
If that was the route they want to take I expect buffs to survivability.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

A clear mark on/above clones?
A different color or visual attribute on caster or clone?
Or a personal marker?
A special targeting trait?
Have the protrait of the mesmer light up/flash when you target the real deal?

None of those things improve tab targeting. I assume you’re being sarcastic.