Guild Wars 2

Yo peeps,
I’m not so much into big argumented threads, you do it better than me so this one will be short.

Yesterday was a frustrating night for me, i ran into several macro-using thieves and mesmers in tpvp. Be it clusterbomb, backstab/culling combo or 10k shatters…

I have no proof of them using macros, let’s suppose they’re just so good they can stay invisible while killing me 100-0 or tearing me appart with one shatter combo.

The worse thing about macros is the way Anet seems to “handle them”:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

That’s a logic close to “you can hack but watch out”. Advising against them? Really? That’s so unprofessional (imo).

Here ends my QQ thread, now for suggestions! Let’s cry about macros in PvE, maybe they’ll listen and start banning people due to PvErs complaints.

/Miku

Here I am thinking that this would be a constructive thread, and it really is just some pathetic call out at Sharp.

There’s other companies that handle hack programs this way, not every company just outright disallows them in their game. I am sure if there is a HUGE uproar on these, “macros” then they look into more and just unable to get into that at all.

However on a brighter side, I kind of wish legitimate macros did exist in the GW. I like the idea of, “One keystroke = One action” but sometimes macros can weed out the smarter players and awards them so for figuring how to make them properly.

“I have no proof of them using macros, "

I think you would need some evidence first.

If my PC would handle recording, then maybe… But you can see videos of insane shatters in a thread somewhere here, same occurs with thieves and their backstab/c&d/steal combos.

@EoNxBoNx : However, the said macros are game breaking – their simple use weeds out how smart that person is.

one keystroke = one action on one character/account
jump roll = banhammer?

Lol at people whining about macros in a game that takes so few keybinds.

http://taugrim.com/2012/06/27/guide-to-guild-wars-2-keybinds/

Learn to Keybind. Even if people use macros they have no advantage lol.

jumper, i agree lol. i think u can probaly do the 1 shot rotation like me, takes 4 buttons or 5 with shadowstep and u can do that all within 0,5 sec and with 1 hand. 67890 = qertc
and if theres a solution to prove that u don’t use macro, tell it here because it can’t be proven, its like either ur a noob and u need macro, or either ur good and u don’t need it.

The thread is definitely valid and to be honest it’s quite mind-boggling how people seem unable to comprehend the rammifications of having macros run rampant in this game where twitch-gameplay is essential. More to the point, Sharp has confirmed that macros are bannable offense and illegal in this game, further highlighting how it’s potentially considered an issue.

Right now, macros aren’t a question of “rewarding smart players” – a ludicrous notion at best – or a question of whether or not they are needed. Anyone with the sufficient hardware can set up macros and watch their performance increase noticeably.

Hypothetically, I could set up my G15 and Naga to always ensure that with one simple keystroke, I do the standardized CnD+Steal+Haste+BS. Nothing fancy here, except every single time, regardless of circumstances, the combo will be executed flawlessly.

Hypothetically, I could ensure that I abuse the shatter combo every single time for some of those crazy instagib scenarios we’re currently seeing. No deviation in performance due to me not being infallible; the macro would ensure perfect execution with a keystroke due to my G15/Naga configuration.

The real problem is, as OP states, the fact that Anet seem impotent in this matter. And naturally so, it’s a grey area when it comes to human reactions; an amazing player shouldn’t suffer from being lumped together with macro-users (although the outcome of their actions become disturbingly similar).
However, arguing that “people shouldn’t adopt bad habits that they will need to unlearn in live tournaments” is simply absurd. It’s dubious we’ll ever have flourishing and regular live tournaments, and the majority of people honestly do not care as they won’t participate in live tournaments – they’ll keep blowing up people in regular paids because against most current paid teams (sub-top50 QP), macros infer too large an advantage.

Of course, it doesn’t help that there are self-admitted perpetrators of macro-(ab)use currently figuring in the top-50 leaderboards.

Kirei.1792:

either ur a noob and u need macro, or either ur good and u don’t need it.

That is a fallacy. A good player may not need macro, but if he never intends to participate in live tourneys then he might as well ensure that mistakes in the execution of the combo are effectively eliminated. Does it, over time, atrophy his skill and become a crutch? Maybe. However, if nothing can be done about it there’s little to deter him.

i completely agree with jonathan on this 1 its gonna be almost impossible to ban every macro player as software macros are pretty easy to find, if people are using commonly used tools but hardware macros are gonna be very tricky and where do u draw the line? what about custom controllers? are they ok personally i think so, im lefty and i use custom controllers, but there arent any 1 button = 5 action type buttons set up, but i could easyily do so if i want, but really its just lazyness and ur gonna only ruin urself, if you was so lazy for example to set a macro for cloak and dagger/steal/backstab. you would get into the habit of doing that and your gameplay would probably become more predictable as a result

As I said, I agree that it’s a grey area and extremely hard to adjust without unintended sideeffects. However, perhaps it would be an idea to adjust the combinations that are most often the subject of macro-(ab)use – after all, these combinations are also the ones most commonly perceived as problematic in the game by both casual and hardcore playerbase alike.

Gintoki.6405:

if you was so lazy for example to set a macro for cloak and dagger/steal/backstab. you would get into the habit of doing that and your gameplay would probably become more predictable as a result

Predictability is the least of the problems with these combinations. If I face a mesmer I know that everything hinges on me avoiding the brunt of the shatter combo. If I meet a backstab thief I know the exact sequence of events that will unfold. The problem is that despite this knowledge of the fight, a single mistake on my part means I am in the gutter, whereas a single mistake on their part is often forgiveable due to their inherent escape options and survivability.

With the macro in play, it eliminates any mistakes they might make in terms of executing the combo. Thus it eliminates the human dimension in which errors inevitably will sometimes occur, further giving an edge to the macro-(ab)user.

Again, rather than flailing about in the dark in regards to whether or not we feasibly can detect macro abusers, how about the game is tweaked to diminish the power of these builds that benefit so highly from perfect execution? People from all tiers and strata complain about a simplistic metagame consisting of bunkers and bursters. Slapping a bit of cast-time on some of these bursty abilities would still allow for burst but would make these glass builds more dependent on their team and/or long-term sustainability rather than one-trick pony-playstyles in which they hardly even have to analyse the fights. Right now it’s picking the squishiest target and then letting the pain-train commence.

tbh i feel the problem in guild wars2 is that barely anything relys on perfect execution. but thats probably because ive played competitive fighting games where a good player will make a bad player look like an absolute joke.

I don’t think the problem lyes in the lack of perfect execution, as an example: GW1 relied on perfect execution of spikes/interrupts/instant heals, macros were abused in order to perfectly execute an interrupt on a 3/4s skill or a heal on a target who goes down from 100 to 0 in 1.5 seconds.

@ Kirei, that’s a problem too – noobs using macros and instagibbing like pros who dont.

(~ °°)~

ilJumperMT.4871:

Lol at people whining about macros in a game that takes so few keybinds.

http://taugrim.com/2012/06/27/guide-to-guild-wars-2-keybinds/

Learn to Keybind. Even if people use macros they have no advantage lol.

This is like saying learn to aim to someone using an aimbot. Good players don’t need to, but scrubs will as it is the only way they can pull the combos off. The more scrubs using these combos in spvp, the more complaints, the more people switching to the fotm classes and the higher the chances that the classes in question get ‘panic nerfed’.

To be honest though, ArenaNet brought this on themselves by making it so easy to burst with these classes (at least from a Thief perspective. I haven’t played Mesmer much). If they had incorporated class mechanics that thwarted macro users this wouldn’t be an issue.