Guild Wars 2

Ok so I cant even touch their HP on my own when I’m on a condition heavy build.

Now what I haven’t yet seen is Mallyx Shiro Herald 1v1 on point with a Diamond skin Auramancer. They both have incredible defenses against condition builds and I’d like to know how they would fare against each other.

You build sucks that’s the problem.

If the revenant commits to the point without disengaging, he would probably lose.

I guess Viper Rev should tear Ele apart.

I find this fascinating, really.
The herald may have what it takes to drop the tempest HP below 90% and burst with torment, burns and chill. But tempest has superior defense.

One thing’s for certain though, ScrubDiickthemagician was the noob who got one shotted by gunflame….and complained about it

Tempest would out heal the herald. If the point is capped by tempest, I’d go help my teammates secure mid first before engaging

I think it’d be a stalemate.

If I remember correctly, Helseth said on his stream, that the Revenant is a counter to the Tempest.

Which makes sense, since their Revenant is playing with carrion, so he should get the Tempest without a problem below 90% HP. After that the Tempest will have problems with the condis from the Revenant, since he does not have a lot of cleanses (Rune of the Soldier and staff water #5).

Viper Mallyx Shiro Rev completely tears apart tempest, so just don’t run condi-only amu.

Mallyx is just too strong against Ele’s, it:

- Removes their boons at an insane rate, which is excrutiating for tempests.
- It negates a big chunk of DPS and the biggest weak-spot of the Rev, conditions.
- If you run the double stability, you negate a ton of CC, like schocking aura.
- The DMG is easily high enough to get through the high sustain of the tempest.
- It also has some decent ranged options, like the boonstrip for example, which comes in very handy to stay at range against schocking aura or generally mainhand-dagger wielding tempests.

1v1 tempest is strong sustain. you forget that after 30 sec or 1 min help will arrived for 2v1 you. thus rev cant take ele down in 30 sec . the ele will stay in water and cleanse and heal with auras and stand on the point ….

Been wondering about the same thing. No doubt Mallyx Shiro on Viper is powerful but the Tempest sustain is pretty darn incredible. Diamond skin, auras, cleansing shouts, water attunement are things not to be taken lightly.

Good topic. I’m pretty curios about it as well.

viper herald can easily take tempest under 90% with shiro heal and sword 3 then burn it with condi.
im pretty sure EU bring viper because all the ele, engi, rangers
if EU had thief, rev would probably still play dragon stance marauder.

messiah.1908:

1v1 tempest is strong sustain. you forget that after 30 sec or 1 min help will arrived for 2v1 you. thus rev cant take ele down in 30 sec . the ele will stay in water and cleanse and heal with auras and stand on the point ….

Rev can definitely take down ele in 30 seconds. Also, if they send support, why can’t your team? then you’ll be in a 2v2 with a rev that’s fine and an Ele that is either already dead, or cannot possibly survive another spike.

Really, if the Rev isn’t simply bad, the MU is almost unwinnable for Ele and it takes no time for the Rev to down him.

To be clear, I’m talking about Mallyx/Shiro Viper Rev. If it’s a Shiro/Glint rev, the MU is quite different and Ele should be able to sustain quite well.

Sword AA with quickness / UA . It will bring them below 90%. Then you unload condition burst. Assuming it’s Viper build.

Is Carrion a good alternative to Viper for the Mallyx/Shiro build?

Vapour.7348:

Is Carrion a good alternative to Viper for the Mallyx/Shiro build?

I imagine carrion would work. Back in beta weekend two when mallyx was way more interesting, I played carrion glint/mallyx and I loved it. Because of the high health and perma protection it felt like a condi support build that the game had never seen since prenerfed spirit ranger (carrion and perma prot). I haven’t tried that setup sense and I don’t think it would work as well as the more offensive builds.

Now looking at the current viper build that we’re all bandwagoning to, I think shiro is the main reason it’s so strong. Most condi builds have crap mobility and can’t break stun like crazy so shiro holds it together very nicely.

Now the viper and wanderer amulets are amazing in the current meta because tempests don’t usually run full AoE cleanse builds (cleansing water and soldier runes) yet in favor of aurashare, meaning that the extra duration from expertise lets you kitten up someone’s day further if they’re unable to cleanse.

The thing is that most classes can’t play something glassy like vipers and still excel. Only rev and in theory chronomancer have the active defenses needed to pull off a hyper offensive condi build. The wanderers amulet is a little more generalizable, but necromancer is ironically the only class with the right trait synergies to make wanderer work better than viper since the precision backed with 0 power is wasted on most builds.

nearlight.3064:

Vapour.7348:

Is Carrion a good alternative to Viper for the Mallyx/Shiro build?

I imagine carrion would work. Back in beta weekend two when mallyx was way more interesting, I played carrion glint/mallyx and I loved it. Because of the high health and perma protection it felt like a condi support build that the game had never seen since prenerfed spirit ranger (carrion and perma prot). I haven’t tried that setup sense and I don’t think it would work as well as the more offensive builds.

Now looking at the current viper build that we’re all bandwagoning to, I think shiro is the main reason it’s so strong. Most condi builds have crap mobility and can’t break stun like crazy so shiro holds it together very nicely.

Now the viper and wanderer amulets are amazing in the current meta because tempests don’t usually run full AoE cleanse builds (cleansing water and soldier runes) yet in favor of aurashare, meaning that the extra duration from expertise lets you kitten up someone’s day further if they’re unable to cleanse.

The thing is that most classes can’t play something glassy like vipers and still excel. Only rev and in theory chronomancer have the active defenses needed to pull off a hyper offensive condi build. The wanderers amulet is a little more generalizable, but necromancer is ironically the only class with the right trait synergies to make wanderer work better than viper since the precision backed with 0 power is wasted on most builds.

Necro main here as well!

I’ve always preferred Carrion over Celestial on my necro but the 2 exact builds discussed on this thread makes me really think twice about running Carrion chills. As you said, only Revs and Chrono could pull off a full condi build.

I agree that Shiro is the key denominator for Herald’s current dominance. Also, when one with nature is activated, viper Shiro delivers marauder physical damage along with a high condition output to synergize with Mallyx. The boon and condi duration boost doesn’t hurt either.

Although Carrion offers 26k hp, it doesn’t integrate with Shiro like viper does. It looks worse on paper but oddly, I’ve had more success soloQing with Carrion than I do with viper. I’ll give your old build a try in a set of matches for curiosity’s sake

Wait wait wait, so a Rev is having a problem with diamond skin? Finally diamond skin will get a change/nerf.

Can’t let Rev get shown up by something.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Wait wait wait, so a Rev is having a problem with diamond skin? Finally diamond skin will get a change/nerf.

Can’t let Rev get shown up by something.

I think the OP was running a pure condi build (not sure what build or class) and had trouble with diamond skin and mallyx. He wanted to know the outcome if the 2 said builds would engage

Ross Biddle.2367:

Wait wait wait, so a Rev is having a problem with diamond skin? Finally diamond skin will get a change/nerf.

Can’t let Rev get shown up by something.

I just dueled a viper rev on my AoE shout tune cleanse warhorn build (no diamond skin) and we basically stalled. I kept cleansing his condis, but I couldn’t do enough damage to get him below 30%

nearlight.3064:

I just dueled a viper rev on my AoE shout tune cleanse warhorn build (no diamond skin) and we basically stalled. I kept cleansing his condis, but I couldn’t do enough damage to get him below 30%

It’s not that one-sided match up as some people want you to believe, no need for DS to get a decent chance in this 1vs1, tested my d/d arcana tempest and we stalled also, most times I’ve brought him down but was too hard to actually down; ofc condi clear management still necessary

nearlight.3064:

I just dueled a viper rev on my AoE shout tune cleanse warhorn build (no diamond skin) and we basically stalled. I kept cleansing his condis, but I couldn’t do enough damage to get him below 30%

Duel my Marauder Herald with your Tempest.

Vapour.7348:

Is Carrion a good alternative to Viper for the Mallyx/Shiro build?

Not really imo as your other weapon set will pretty much be useless since pretty much everything else is power-based.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Vapour.7348:

Is Carrion a good alternative to Viper for the Mallyx/Shiro build?

Not really imo as your other weapon set will pretty much be useless since pretty much everything else is power-based.

Both Carrion and Viper got a bit different purpose. TCG used Carrion in last Pro League.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Vapour.7348:

Is Carrion a good alternative to Viper for the Mallyx/Shiro build?

Not really imo as your other weapon set will pretty much be useless since pretty much everything else is power-based.

It won’t be if you take Invocation over Retribution. Slightly different gameplay.

What’s cool about the Revenant is you could use Carrion and still achieve almost Marauder level precision. The gameplay is not as straight forward as Viper but it could be rewarding to those who can make it work effectively.

Regarding the 2 builds discussed here, the herald may seem to have the upper hand, but I wouldn’t underestimate the bunkering capabilities of the tempest.

Mallyx/Shi Herald vs Diamnd Aura Tempest

Herald will win

Dueled a few viper revs with bruiser a/e/t tempest, won every time. E/w/t bunker tempest just stalemates though. Without glint heal, revs really cant do anything against air overload, esp on point.

abc.5790:

Mallyx/Shi Herald vs Diamnd Aura Tempest

Herald will win

Don’t underestimate the ele/tempest and their role.