Guild Wars 2

I’m mostly a PvE’r and I only recently got into sPvP (mostly so I can get more achievement points). I’m not a hardcore PvPer by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m very good at noticing tactics and strategies (or the lack thereof) in other players. It seems to me that very, very few people use map mechanics. I’ll see entire matches go by where nobody reconfigures the Skyhammer to their team, uses the trebuchets in Battle of Khylo after the first few minutes, or uses the cannon in Raid on the Capricorn. Granted, I’ve been doing hot-join for the last three months and am only now getting into the solo arena, but I really don’t get why people fail to use all the resources given to them. Do people seriously not care about winning to the extent that they completely ignore map mechanics, or is there something going on that I’m not aware of?

I guess people come to fight, not press 2 buttons..

You have to weigh the risk with the reward. If you go for a boss and it gets stolen, if you are planning on using treb and an enemy engineer just lobs nades from the ledge, how do you deal with that? Or if your trebber can’t kill an assaulter quickly 1 v 1, doesn’t have the ability to insta repair treb with portal, or is a bad shot. Also, if your team doesn’t set up treb hits the enemy team could just dodge every shot. Then there is the lord on foefire, if you fail a lord push it can cost you the game.

If your in hotjoin/custom arena , this is true. IF you do tournies, you will see map mechanics used a lot more. Especially in team tournies.

Eurantien.4632:

You have to weigh the risk with the reward. If you go for a boss and it gets stolen, if you are planning on using treb and an enemy engineer just lobs nades from the ledge, how do you deal with that? Or if your trebber can’t kill an assaulter quickly 1 v 1, doesn’t have the ability to insta repair treb with portal, or is a bad shot. Also, if your team doesn’t set up treb hits the enemy team could just dodge every shot. Then there is the lord on foefire, if you fail a lord push it can cost you the game.

The problem is though, there are clear—very clear—openings that people just completely ignore. An enemy base in Legacy of the Foefire can have BOTH of its door blasted wide open and the entire team could be capping the point near that base, with no enemies in sight, and they’ll just walk right by it. The cannon in Capricorn could go an entire match without being fired ONCE, even when it’s wide open. People in Temple of the Silent Storm can be the only players near commune points and they don’t use them. (And don’t say I’m exaggerating—I see these things happen all the time.)

I’m not the best PvPer, as I said, but if there’s one thing I know it’s strategy, and hot-join sPvP is thoroughly lacking in strategy. I understand exactly what you mean about risk vs. reward, but even when the risk is nonexistent and the reward is very high, opportunities still don’t get taken. I see blowouts happen all the time because one team or the other ignores the mechanics central to a particular map. Is it that people know about these mechanics and just don’t care about anything other than killing other players, or that they don’t take the time to learn the maps? I don’t know which is worse…

Equinox.4968:

Eurantien.4632:

You have to weigh the risk with the reward. If you go for a boss and it gets stolen, if you are planning on using treb and an enemy engineer just lobs nades from the ledge, how do you deal with that? Or if your trebber can’t kill an assaulter quickly 1 v 1, doesn’t have the ability to insta repair treb with portal, or is a bad shot. Also, if your team doesn’t set up treb hits the enemy team could just dodge every shot. Then there is the lord on foefire, if you fail a lord push it can cost you the game.

The problem is though, there are clear—very clear—openings that people just completely ignore. An enemy base in Legacy of the Foefire can have BOTH of its door blasted wide open and the entire team could be capping the point near that base, with no enemies in sight, and they’ll just walk right by it. The cannon in Capricorn could go an entire match without being fired ONCE, even when it’s wide open. People in Temple of the Silent Storm can be the only players near commune points and they don’t use them. (And don’t say I’m exaggerating—I see these things happen all the time.)

I’m not the best PvPer, as I said, but if there’s one thing I know it’s strategy, and hot-join sPvP is thoroughly lacking in strategy. I understand exactly what you mean about risk vs. reward, but even when the risk is nonexistent and the reward is very high, opportunities still don’t get taken. I see blowouts happen all the time because one team or the other ignores the mechanics central to a particular map. Is it that people know about these mechanics and just don’t care about anything other than killing other players, or that they don’t take the time to learn the maps? I don’t know which is worse…

I was talking for tourneys. As for hotjoins, people just go in there to do what they think is fun. Skill, strategy, intellectual thought do not come into play in hotjoins.

Eurantien.4632:

I was talking for tourneys. As for hotjoins, people just go in there to do what they think is fun. Skill, strategy, intellectual thought do not come into play in hotjoins.

I understand that hot-joins are for casual PvPers, but I still don’t understand why people wouldn’t even try to win. It boggles my mind to think that someone would consider playing badly, failing to strategize, and ignoring the obvious “fun.” I mean, I’m pretty much only in it for the achievement points, but while I’m there I might as well try my best to win…

Equinox.4968:

Eurantien.4632:

I was talking for tourneys. As for hotjoins, people just go in there to do what they think is fun. Skill, strategy, intellectual thought do not come into play in hotjoins.

I understand that hot-joins are for casual PvPers, but I still don’t understand why people wouldn’t even try to win. It boggles my mind to think that someone would consider playing badly, failing to strategize, and ignoring the obvious “fun.” I mean, I’m pretty much only in it for the achievement points, but while I’m there I might as well try my best to win…

1. your definition of fun is different from everybody else.
2. No coordination means nobody wants to be the guy on the map mechanic. Why would I sacrifice glory by doing something that doesn’t give me glory. Remember a lot of the people in hotjoin do it to farm glory.
3. Except for a few maps, a lot of the time the huge team size actually makes it punishing to give up a few guys to focus on the map mechanic.
4. People enjoy a good zerg.

Equinox.4968:

I’m mostly a PvE’r and I only recently got into sPvP (mostly so I can get more achievement points). I’m not a hardcore PvPer by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m very good at noticing tactics and strategies (or the lack thereof) in other players. It seems to me that very, very few people use map mechanics. I’ll see entire matches go by where nobody reconfigures the Skyhammer to their team, uses the trebuchets in Battle of Khylo after the first few minutes, or uses the cannon in Raid on the Capricorn. Granted, I’ve been doing hot-join for the last three months and am only now getting into the solo arena, but I really don’t get why people fail to use all the resources given to them. Do people seriously not care about winning to the extent that they completely ignore map mechanics, or is there something going on that I’m not aware of?

Here are some pointers:

- A (soloQ/tPvP) team is 5 people: when you leave someone on a “map mechanics” during a soloQ or tPvP game, you instantly lose 1/5th of your force on the field, that is 20% of your team.
- Objective of maps (to win) is capping points, you need as many people as you can to do this.
- Some of these mechanics are not available in soloQ or tPvP (e.g. the cannon in Capricorn is only in hot join), so there is less “pro strats” for these mechanics

Normally, map wide, a 4v5 game goes in favour of the team of 5, so it is a risk you are taking (less risky with bigger numbers, though) and against good players, the map mechanics become less and less useful too (as there are counters or ways to mitigate them).

For example, in skyhammer, the blast is easily predictable and it is easy to cap a point by moving out of the radius and coming back, popping protection, invuln or even going mist form, Death Shroud, etc.
Khylo, the treb can be dodged.
Killing the Lord wastes time, and often mean that you will lose control of the map if you commit too much to it.
Bosses in “Niflhel” can be stolen, indeed, or you can lose a cap point while you were getting the kill and find out that there is now a bunker on the point of which you were in charge (good luck kicking them out).

Basically, what wins you the game is capping points. The mechanics need to be used with this main objective in mind.

As for hotjoins, people will generally try to win. But they won’t be trying too hard either.

Flamfloz.6732:

As for hotjoins, people will generally try to win. But they won’t be trying too hard either.

Therein lies the problem