Guild Wars 2

I’ve waited a long time to write this thread because I didn’t want to commercialize these methods in a public forum but at this point so many people are already using them, that it is more important to speak out about it rather than avoid the topic. Not sure if anet understands how bad this is as of S7. First of all, here is what’s going on to the greatest extent that I understand and/or have witnessed personally:

Smurfing

• Player 1 goes on a main account that is playing leaderboards seriously
• Player 2 goes on an alt account that is placed low by throwing matches
• Player 1 & 2 duo que so the low ranked alt can create easy matches for the main
• Player 2’s alt also DCs on purpose to avoid a loss on the main if a match is bad
• Player 2’s alt will achieve a rank that no longer creates easy matches so they swap
• Player 1 goes on his alt, Player 2 goes on his main, they repeat the process
• When both alt’s ranks are too high, they sign in and duo que on both alts
• Throw games to lower the alt’s rating back down for easy matches with mains
• Throw games to lower other player’s ratings
• Try hard and win games depending on who’s to sabotage on other team
• When both alts once again achieve low rank, go back to step 1 and repeat
• This is something that even average joes have begun to do and get away with

Alt Account Leaderboard Blocking And Que Sniping

• A player plays an alt like a main and places high in leaderboards
• This is to block other player’s progress and to throw important matches
• Do the opposite of que dodging, try to que snipe other players on leaderboard
• Depending on if you land with or against the player you are trying to que snipe, you decide to play hard and beat him or to throw the game. It is easier to throw a match on a high ranked account because it’s weight within the algorithm’s placement means that it should be carrying teams. If a high ranked player stops trying, surely his team will lose.
• This is something that only players who are trying hard will do

Voicechat Ques

• A large group of people go into a voicechat together and hit que at the same time
• Community is so small that there is high likelihood that 5 of the players in the voicechat will land in the same match and on the same team together
• When seeing who is on your team, those players swap down to different channel
• Wallah, you are a 5 man premade using voicechat in a solo/duo environment
• This is something that anyone can do easily

Bribery

• Losing a match? Offer 1 or 2 players on the opposing team a sum of gold to throw
• If they throw and you win, send the gold to keep them complacent
• Make sure you do this with only friends and randoms. They won’t report you
• Or straight up pay another player to play your account to a high rank
• Any wealthy player or a person with the right connections can do this

Que Dodging

• Get into the politics, the espionage and the social stigma
• Find out who is who and what alts they are running
• Add them to friends or block so that you can see when they are on or offline, when they are in a match or not
• Learn how to avoid que’ing with people that you know are throwing, que sniping, bad players overall or players that you know will beat you
• This is not only easy to do but it has become a mandatory defense vs. the match manipulation methods listed above. It’s a big drain on the game mode and very boring for a legitimate player to keep pace with.

Now let’s cut to chase and get right to the important Qs and As.

Q: What is the problem here?
A: Too much match manipulation is ruining the ranked game mode.

Q: What caused this to explode and become such a problem?
A: The conversion to solo/duo que only actually encouraged the exploits

Q: What can be done to remedy this epidemic of cheating?
A: Allow 5 man teams as to prevent throw matches

Q: Why isn’t this being done already?
A: Waiting on anet response

I could tell stories to example the match manipulation this season but there really is no reason. I’m sure most players who care enough to log into this forum, also have similar stories that they have witnessed. The fact of the matter is that anet needs to fix ranked by returning it to 1-5 player que, so players can prevent moles from being on their team.

I’m sure that all of us who voted for solo/duo only and even those who didn’t, are greatly disappointed after seeing that it has done nothing good for match making but rather made it worse by highly encouraging the use of match manipulation tactics.

It’s sad that a small group of cheater kiddos ruin it for everyone. Like the saying goes “this is why we can’t have nice things”.

Worst part is anet just sits by and watches/promotes the cheat squad. All you can do to protest is drop ranked play and enjoy unranked. Let the top 15 (more like loser 7 or so) since alt accounts play with themselves.

but if i dont have 5 premade and play mostly soloq. the problem will continue as random ppl can join me and manipulate the game.

so 5 man team only solve the problem for 5 man team.

isnt it a way to know which ip the user from so the number of account will be determine by his ip and not account.

Ziggityzog.7389:

It’s sad that a small group of cheater kiddos ruin it for everyone. Like the saying goes “this is why we can’t have nice things”.

Worst part is anet just sits by and watches/promotes the cheat squad. All you can do to protest is drop ranked play and enjoy unranked. Let the top 15 (more like loser 7 or so) since alt accounts play with themselves.

This right here is the only power you normal joes have at this point. This is one of our two only options.

A.) Drop Ranked Leagues.

B.) Do your PvP elsewhere.

Maybe was designed to be exploited since ANet never cared to improve the pvp (it was always very leechy), dont forget that ANet love shortcuts tactics even if they are based on lame gimmick or tactics, its a game ment to leech, all they do is mind manipulation with the rewards improvements, they were/are more interested in blind players with rewards than actually improve the ladders.

This is a pve only game, pvp is here cause was strong in this game precursor, and a mmo w/o pvp for how awfull it is, needs to have its pvp…

Duo queue just makes it easier. There would be plenty of cheating if it was solo only don’t kid yourself. The problem is unscrupulous kittens. I really wonder about these people they must all be punk kids or punk kids in adult bodies. I mean get a life. And believe me if A-net really cared they have means to find some of these cheaters and ban them but they don’t care at this point.

You missed the way it’s actually done.

Take a duo of players on their main and sync with a single third player.

If the three players are on the same team, they try hard. The third player (on an alt) dcs if his team starts losing.

If the three players are on different teams then the alt will throw the game or dc to ensure the duo wins.

This way the duo consistently wins with no chance of losing.

Now doesn’t all this talks. About the common practices of cheating. Make you all warm and cozy inside? Doesn’t it make you want to play Ranked PvP in GW2 even more?

While im not here to say if its true or not but wow that’s a butt load of work to pull it off really sad if it’s a thing instead of just playing the game.

Make the accounts tied to a phone number. One number per ranked account. Problem mostly solved.

Queue doding always made sense to me. I don’t think that’s match manipulation at all. It’s more like you just don’t want to play with/against someone that you’ve A) Have problems playing with or B ) Not wanting to play against a certain build that is cancer.

As you said before why would you want to queue with someone who is intentionally throwing games? It’s the best defense against that kind of behavior.

Faux Play.6104:

Make the accounts tied to a phone number. One number per ranked account. Problem mostly solved.

This would limit a good portion of the Match manipulation.

You forgot the ddos option too, if any of them know your ip you better change it.

Ryan.9387:

You missed the way it’s actually done.

Take a duo of players on their main and sync with a single third player.

If the three players are on the same team, they try hard. The third player (on an alt) dcs if his team starts losing.

If the three players are on different teams then the alt will throw the game or dc to ensure the duo wins.

This way the duo consistently wins with no chance of losing.

This to me sounds like the most efficient option by far.

@ Ziggity
Oh it’s not such a small group anymore and even if it were, these are the people who play all the time all day long so with the way the algorithm works “mixing high MMRs with lows” you have to get caught up in the secret throw war, no matter what your skill level or what time you play.

@ messiah
You are already against 5 man premades in ranked often, you just don’t realize it. Read voicechat que and Ryan’s comment. Allowing 5 man back at the very least allows legitimate players to form even non-voicechat groups and block moles from being in the party.

@ jbondo
I don’t consider que dodging “cheating” either but it is very boring to have to do. Everyone was so worried about que times but they should be worried about this. Add about +30 minutes or more onto each que if you want to avoid obvious shenanigans.

@ Elxdark
Yeah that too. Although I cannot prove that other players are doing this, I have noticed that my team’s DC rate is much higher when against certain particular accounts. Anet needs to do a bit of research on who is getting high win rates due to 5v4 DCs in their favor and look into it.

@ Ryan
Yup, that’ll do it right there. Strongest method and very easy to accomplish.

It’s a real shame people have to cheat in a video game to get ahead. Messes up things for anyone who wants to get some enjoyment out of their playing time.

Zoricus.2439:

It’s a real shame people have to cheat in a video game to get ahead. Messes up things for anyone who wants to get some enjoyment out of their playing time.

Some are so self entitled and dont want to lose their “status” by any way

other are here only to enjoy themselves like me, a poor “silver scum”, and for me ratings only means compared to some known friend and some unknow pug ones that i find problematic to fight againts or hardcarring and added to “f-list” to track

Not sure how they can really stop cheaters besides babysitting the whole game-mode 24/7.
People seems to always find a way.

Linking acc to a phone number, people would use their friends/bff/mom/dad/sis/aunt/gramma phones and still do it, or just get a burner prepaid phone for 5 bucks.

I think maybe removing solo/Duo Q from Leagues might be a start.
– people will be forced to lfg to participate on league games, this will infuriate some but should also help to build a community (or break it)
– remove the ‘no penalty’ for DCs. If you loose a team mate your team should have teamed up with someone with a better connection.
– remove character swapping and make mmr character based. You need to make your team comp before going into the match.
– reduce mmr/score won if team has low ranked member (or great disparity between members). To avoid people going into ranked games to drop mmr and jump into season games with low ratings.

It will be painful to have to LFG for pvp, but it will solve a lot of cheating and matchmaking problems.

Pretty sure these problems only exists on NA side. Atleast haven’t heard or seen any of such shenanigans on EU.

Yup match manipulation sucks, idk why anet doesnt do anything, just look at guilds like the mist initiative[spvp], twice i have seen two of them appear, each on an opposite team and, then one of them always quits

lol you still play pvp in this game?

The only easy way to have a much more meaningful score is pure solo Q and/or full 5 man Q. Shure you still can Q dodge.
The game needs diffrent ranked game modes. The problem is that it will distribute population and some modes might then die.

Conquest = prioritize un-even numbered fights and it creates a toxic community
that’s why thief is so strong at the moment

All of this happens in every competitive game.
However, the reason why it is devastating in Guild Wars and not that much elsewhere is the small PvP population.

In other words; it’s easier to encounter those issues as the PvP-pool is far smaller than any other competitive game.

They can’t fix this issue unless;
- seperate Solo/5 Men Team Queue (or a minimum of 2 players in a party)
- drastically increase of PvP-pool (which is only a temp solution as the problem will increase with it)

The younger crowd likes to follow and do exactly what the top players do. They are easily influenced. If the top and pro players would set an example of actually campaigning against match manipulation and started representing a legit community, people would be shamed for cheating instead of empowered by it.

This is very true.

This might explain why the same people are topping the leaderboard every time. Truth is, every system has its flaws. The community wanted duo queue because 5man stomps are no fun, just reverting to 5man queue is not going to fix all of these problems, surely you must see that. Every “solution” would introduce new problems.

Like people have said, that is a hell of a lot of work for just a title. That’s it. Just enjoy the game and do what’s fun for you.

Ran 2 matches last night and 3 matches this morning. Each match was either a DC on my team about 100 points into my team’s lead or someone jumping around nodes like a monkey, not healing themselves, not engaging enemies and purposely allowing decaps.

Arenanet, are you going to do anything about this?

2 straight ranked matches last night with the same kitten on the enemy team very openly making clear that he was paying members of our team to throw the game. He was literally laughing at us the whole time and saying yeah go ahead and report me ANet will do nothing.

You know what the saddest part is? He is right.

Really… I play pvp for long time, but never was to serious about it. But after reading this post I now see some patterns. Also this can explain at least partially how I idropped from top platinum and had many losses without any effort from my teams.
All that is very sad..

Mal.1670:

This might explain why the same people are topping the leaderboard every time. Truth is, every system has its flaws. The community wanted duo queue because 5man stomps are no fun, just reverting to 5man queue is not going to fix all of these problems, surely you must see that. Every “solution” would introduce new problems.

Like people have said, that is a hell of a lot of work for just a title. That’s it. Just enjoy the game and do what’s fun for you.

the comunity not wanted duo q, the great amount of players wanted pure solo, duo are introduced by anet cuz a minority of top vocals wanted it, thus they can retain in some sort control of matches playing with a asured other top(the “legal ones”), and cheat most others

Hey Barbie, played with you today and unfortunately we got a alt on our team, won’t say the name since it’s not allowed.

I agree with everything you said, unfortunately the leaderboards right now are not a measurement of skill and I doubt ANET will be doing anything since it’s been like that since season 5.

I think a good fix would be:
- When duo queing if one player has a 1000 rating and the other have 1500, make the queue consider both player as 1500 rating, so it doesnt matter how low the other is, it will always be matched with people with skill of the higher rating.
- Second if a duo dc make the duo that still in the match take a heavy loss too ( not the others of the team ), yeah i know sometime your mate may really dc by accident, but if he dc all the time you shouldnt be duo with him.

I’m not a big pvper. I’ve played only one night so far in this new season. I hopped into the forum to see what the news is about recent changes and the season. I can say I’ve already seen some of this happening after playing just one night.

What a pain in the ass doing all this is. I mean, you gotta be a serious looser to waste so much time and effort doing this sort of stuff. I don’t get why people don’t just play and have fun. Trying to game the system is not the game, but unfortunately there are many folks out there who do see that as the game. I’m sure they’ll make great accountants one day. Loosers.

Instead of 5 man ques which would be anet themselves making manupulation of rank legit practice i would suggest you these feature.

1) Make a rule that only ppl within the same league can que together. And that you
cant que with ppl who havent completed their 10 games. (Idealy they woulnt be
able to que with anyone but other ppl in their category but i dont think thats
possible so make it so a ranked person cant que with an unranked one.)
2) Have an in game voice chat option or partner with a provider of such means
advertise it in game or w/e (you dont have the means to stop ppl from using that?
Make it common practice).
3) Anet takes bans more srsly. Starts banning ppl making them unlable to que during
the season or having an icon next to their name so all can see if they are cheaters or
toxic. The ppl with this badge will only be able to que with ad against other ppl with
this badge (have a taste of your own medicine).Or if this happens alot ban them off
the game (again, credibility)

Pros: most of the prblems that exist get solved and you can have a controlable competitive environment with no random 5 mans stomping you.

Cons: implementation…

EDIT: this is more of a follow up to 1* but make it so when you first que you ca see the
name of both players plus their current rank right before the match starts (kinda
like how it looks in ow for ranked que)

I saw this the past few days against some serial re offenders who parade around as though they are untouchable.

Going to continue to record, screen shot and report.

Hopefully ANET takes action against guilty parties before they completely ruin the season for others.

Since either Season 2 or 3 (would check but I’m on my phone which makes it tedious), there’s no point in queuing with a lower rank partner.
All matches get based of the highest ranking player of the duo.
Time to take off the tinfoil hats lads.

EDIT:
Was actually easier to find than expected.
It’s been since season 2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/
It’s also in the patchnotes.

I have only found 1 person who looked like they dced at the start of the match on purpose. I think most of you are basing your experiences off of assumptions or all of you are somehow in the top 90% of the leaderboards

@ Vornollo
The smurf alt isn’t so much to make easy matches as much as it is to DC if he is on other team, to help his friend get an easy 5v4 or to DC on his friend’s team if his friend is about to lose the match. Many smurfs will que at once nowadays. It’s called win trading.

@ FrownyClown
If you aren’t noticing the theatrical matches where players act like they are trying but indeed are not at all, you need to pay more attention. Most of your matches this season, the wins and loses, are heavily dictated by who is throwing and if you are on their side or not. Since there is no longer division segregation, that means that top platinum players doing this are in the same ques as bronze and silver players. Everyone is effected by this match manipulation, whether you know the game enough to identify it or not.

i also notice some hackers. i fought a condi mesmer in the temple red side. he follow me to his red side point and use blink to reach me. my ally came to + 1 and the mesmer disapear (probably prestige as i saw purple glow when it happened but he reappear (i saw it cause i put condi on him ticking) over the ledge far behind the ramp. no blink can reach there or rdy to be used with 24 sec cd. or blink+PR as i saw no clone and also no portal.

Decided to take a break from GW2. The competition is flat out illegitimate at this point. The real competition in pvp now lies within one’s ability to best other players with match manipulation shenanigans. Legitimate players can no longer compete within this community and it will only grow worse as seasons progress in conjunction with arenanet doing absolutely nothing to remedy the problem.

I’m sure I’ll poke in and see what’s going on around the release of the expansion but I will not buy it if the pvp scene is still completely depraved. If any of you seriously care about this pvp scene, you should choose to not play the ranked seasons. This is the best way to get the point across to arenanet that what’s going on is not acceptable.

Furthermore, if you are so inclined, keep this topic bumped and post pics, vids and w/e other proof you have of blatent shameless match manipulations. Also post ideas for resolve vs. this mess.

For those pro or top players that read this, know that you have the power within this community to set an example of upstanding and legitimate gameplay. The only reason why people are doing this is because you are doing it. If you stopped doing it and began to represent a legit competitive community, they would feel shamed to be caught cheating instead of feeling empowered by it. You make the choice. You are the figureheads of this community and set the example for the rest of us.

It is just a game after all.
But if you want the hobby to remain clean, consider the above.

~ Cheers
~ I look forward to seeing you all in a cleaner environment come expansion time.

megilandil.7506:

Mal.1670:

This might explain why the same people are topping the leaderboard every time. Truth is, every system has its flaws. The community wanted duo queue because 5man stomps are no fun, just reverting to 5man queue is not going to fix all of these problems, surely you must see that. Every “solution” would introduce new problems.

Like people have said, that is a hell of a lot of work for just a title. That’s it. Just enjoy the game and do what’s fun for you.

the comunity not wanted duo q, the great amount of players wanted pure solo, duo are introduced by anet cuz a minority of top vocals wanted it, thus they can retain in some sort control of matches playing with a asured other top(the “legal ones”), and cheat most others

That’s not true at all.

They ran a poll. Majority wanted duo queue. The polls were there, if people didn’t vote that’s their thing. I play with a buddy. Solo play is boring.

The vote for duo que only was an ironically rigged poll. The large bulk of the community agreed on voting yes, but for two very different reasons:

• Legit players believed it would improve match making quality.
• Cheating players knew that duo que only would make match manipulation easier.

They need to redo this vote now that the truth has come to play on what this system has done to ranked pvp seasons. I’ll guarantee you the majority vote would be “No” if done a second time around. Legits realize it has encouraged match manipulation, which = bad match making and even the cheaters find it annoying to have to make pace with cheating. Just rebooting it to 5 man play is the easiest first step to take.

I voted yes because it was not well explained, tought it as 2v2 . Yes, at least in 5 man queues we are sure we can count on the rest of the team and use voices options if possible.

I think it’s funny how OP thinks solo/duo is the reason people manipulate matches. That being said, I do agree that these problems exist, only that the solution OP has in mind is laughable.

an easier and less controversial method would be to always place the duo in the higher of the two mmr’s. this would make it a lot harder to smurf, I think.

to prevent bribery the only way I see is to prevent /w and mail during the ranked match.

Stand The Wall.6987:

an easier and less controversial method would be to always place the duo in the higher of the two mmr’s. this would make it a lot harder to smurf, I think.

to prevent bribery the only way I see is to prevent /w and mail during the ranked match.

Make it like wvw where names are not known.

Figured this was a good place to remind everyone of this:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/
Read #1, #9, #13 and #22
Why are they being allowed to do this?

Well if you read User Terms & Agreements under the Conduct section:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ they say this:

• Reported violations of Rules of Conduct that have merit – ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on communications regarding violation of the Rules of Conduct related to any Account, including but not limited to providing You with a warning, penalties, and in certain cases termination of an Account under Section 3(b). ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on communications regarding violation of the Rules of Conduct related to any Account.

It’s interesting that there are rules but some players are allowed outside of those rules with no explanation. Does it have to do with pennies & dimes? I mean these cheaters are fronting many alt accounts which quite frankly is potential gem sales and expansion purchases for those accounts. Banning accounts does nothing but kill company income or so it would seem.

Feels bad man
For the legit community anyway

Faux Play.6104:

Make it like wvw where names are not known.

anonymity would only serve the rule breakers.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Faux Play.6104:

Make it like wvw where names are not known.

anonymity would only serve the rule breakers.

I agree; it would only motivate the griefers to grief more..

Bezerker.2379:

megilandil.7506:

Mal.1670:

This might explain why the same people are topping the leaderboard every time. Truth is, every system has its flaws. The community wanted duo queue because 5man stomps are no fun, just reverting to 5man queue is not going to fix all of these problems, surely you must see that. Every “solution” would introduce new problems.

Like people have said, that is a hell of a lot of work for just a title. That’s it. Just enjoy the game and do what’s fun for you.

the comunity not wanted duo q, the great amount of players wanted pure solo, duo are introduced by anet cuz a minority of top vocals wanted it, thus they can retain in some sort control of matches playing with a asured other top(the “legal ones”), and cheat most others

That’s not true at all.

They ran a poll. Majority wanted duo queue. The polls were there, if people didn’t vote that’s their thing. I play with a buddy. Solo play is boring.

people voted for not being farmed for premades, duos are put in the equation by anet, they only gave two options, mixed q or solo/duo, people not voted specificaly for duos, its put as a “lesser evil” but experience proved that is a great evil like mixed q