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Posted by: Galtrix.7369

Galtrix.7369

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

Just buy HoT?
Honestly there may be many reasons why you can’t / won’t but is that not an option?

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

I’m curious what the queue times would be for those that do not have the expansion…

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Posted by: Cobrakon.3108

Cobrakon.3108

I completely agree with you OP. One of two things need to happen: either the core specs need to be brought in line with the elite specializations, or there needs to be an option to only play with core people. Perhaps they do intend to raise the core specializations and that’s why they haven’t separated them yet. I know that’s wishful thinking on my part, but you never know.

I think a fair solution would be to offer the option to core owners: Play with HoT or don’t play with HoT.

Take note: I do have HoT and I still think something needs to be done about this. Best of luck to you! In fact, if they intend to have a big difference between xpac abilities and core. just offer everyone the ability to to play in different tiers. option 1. Play ranked/unranked hot 2. Play core ranked/unranked

(edited by Cobrakon.3108)

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

  • I’ve no idea whether the design intent behind Elite specs was to make them more powerful serve as an incentive to buy. I suppose that’s possible.
  • Then again, it’s also possible that ANet either did not foresee combinations involving the Elite spec lines and core lines, or that they’re still in the process of attempting to balance the possibilities so that Elite Specs are horizontal rather than vertical progression.
  • It’s also possible that the numbers match even now, but that the options afforded by Elite Specs either do not have, or do not yet have effective counters available to a core-lines-only player.
  • What I have experienced, however, is that in WvW, every time since the server merges that I’ve seen a character with a huge amount of sustain also doing very high damage to a core bunker build, the character name bar has an Elite Spec icon, not a core one. Every. Single. Time.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Galtrix.7369 welcome to the most unbalanced mmo. (at least one fo them)

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Galtrix.7369

Galtrix.7369

Just buy HoT?
Honestly there may be many reasons why you can’t / won’t but is that not an option?

That is an option, but I told myself I wasn’t going to buy any of the expansions until I found a reasonable price to pay for it. I would probably hate myself if I bought HoT for 30+ dollars just so I could win PvP matches.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

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Posted by: sirsquishy.2619

sirsquishy.2619

Since sPVP is their eSport and they are doing cash give a ways to winning teams, sPVP should be unlocked for all players to level the playing field.

sPVP is a very small part of what GW2 has to offer and since its an isolated game mode there is no logical reason they shouldn’t unlock the elite specs/tracks for all players evenly.

This is just one of the many reasons I refuse to partake in the sPVP side the game.

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

Buy to win is like Pay to win.

It’s bad reputations for your games.

+1 OP.

Anet need to give all spvp players the same chance to compete. It’s the basis of their spvp game mode.

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Anet has not interest in spending money of features that encourage you NOT to spend money.

If you haven’t bought HoT at this point, you are no longer their customer. You are either a former customer, or a trial user with the potential to become a customer.

They can’t simply make elite specs free in PvP only, as then there would be literally no incentive for that eSports community they keep foolishly trying to chase to pay them at all. Their entire eSports setup is a marketing tool, specifically designed to sell more copies of the game. Making it more competitive by spending less money simply undoes that entire business model.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: serj.8214

serj.8214

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Old Vanile necro, S\D Thief, Warrior GS\H, Ranger LB\GS they all can win against elite spec. So i dont think that ur problem is in elite specs. Btw how long do u play GW2 on ftp acc?

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

Anet has not interest in spending money of features that encourage you NOT to spend money.

If you haven’t bought HoT at this point, you are no longer their customer. You are either a former customer, or a trial user with the potential to become a customer.

They can’t simply make elite specs free in PvP only, as then there would be literally no incentive for that eSports community they keep foolishly trying to chase to pay them at all. Their entire eSports setup is a marketing tool, specifically designed to sell more copies of the game. Making it more competitive by spending less money simply undoes that entire business model.

I have hot, but why have i to play with something i have not fun ? Why have i to play with scrapper or chrono when i have more fun with old pistol pistol engi or old condi mesmer ? I have it but i ask anet to let me chose the way i want to play on the same level of the new specs . Otherwise delete the pvp builds and set a common build for every class and does not let people chose alternatives …. but having alternatives all suboptimal is in my opinion not fun and correct . I bought Hot but i ’d like to play also without hot traits

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Anet has not interest in spending money of features that encourage you NOT to spend money.

If you haven’t bought HoT at this point, you are no longer their customer. You are either a former customer, or a trial user with the potential to become a customer.

They can’t simply make elite specs free in PvP only, as then there would be literally no incentive for that eSports community they keep foolishly trying to chase to pay them at all. Their entire eSports setup is a marketing tool, specifically designed to sell more copies of the game. Making it more competitive by spending less money simply undoes that entire business model.

I have hot, but why have i to play with something i have not fun ? Why have i to play with scrapper or chrono when i have more fun with old pistol pistol engi or old condi mesmer ? I have it but i ask anet to let me chose the way i want to play on the same level of the new specs . Otherwise delete the pvp builds and set a common build for every class and does not let people chose alternatives …. but having alternatives all suboptimal is in my opinion not fun and correct . I bought Hot but i ’d like to play also without hot traits

Solo que was removed from the game because no matter what Anet does there simply isn’t a large enough player base to support such a split.

They tried to create a second community by adding a new gametype, which didn’t go so well, but adding even more splits to the community will not achieve their goals, and would actively harm the accessibility of PvP by creating longer que times and less options for MMR to pick from for balanced matches.

What are you then going to do when the next expansion comes out? have another split? What does that look like after five expansions? Five separate lobbies?

What you’re suggesting is basically allowing people to pick a patch and ‘freeze time’ because they personally had more fun at that point.

I don’t think I need to explain further why that simply can’t work.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: RoRo.8270

RoRo.8270

They need an option to buy pvp unlocks for the expansion. 50+ bucks for someone that only pvps is not worth it imo. Also it wasn’t some fluke that all elite specs ended up outclassing their core counterparts.

(edited by RoRo.8270)

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Posted by: Galtrix.7369

Galtrix.7369

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Old Vanile necro, S\D Thief, Warrior GS\H, Ranger LB\GS they all can win against elite spec. So i dont think that ur problem is in elite specs. Btw how long do u play GW2 on ftp acc?

I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Guild Wars 1. How long have you been playing on a free account? That’s funny that you mention that those classes can beat elite specs, because those (with the exception of the necro) are the classes that I generally play with and I still lose. If an experienced player can get eradicated by elite specs, there’s a problem.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

They need an option to buy pvp unlocks for the expansion. 50+ bucks for someone that only pvps is not worth it imo. Also it wasn’t some fluke that all elite specs ended up outclassing their core counterparts.

See, now this is a reasonable expectation that I could see Anet actually doing.

Don’t want the whole expansion? Fine, pay 20 bucks just to unlock the specs and reward tracks in PvP.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Galtrix.7369

Galtrix.7369

Anet has no interest in spending money of features that encourage you NOT to spend money.

If you haven’t bought HoT at this point, you are no longer their customer. You are either a former customer, or a trial user with the potential to become a customer.

They can’t simply make elite specs free in PvP only, as then there would be literally no incentive for that eSports community they keep foolishly trying to chase to pay them at all. Their entire eSports setup is a marketing tool, specifically designed to sell more copies of the game. Making it more competitive by spending less money simply undoes that entire business model.

The problem with that is I still buy gems even though I didn’t buy HoT. That makes me a paying customer. And there are many people like me that didn’t buy HoT but buy gems. We’re still customers.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Anet has no interest in spending money of features that encourage you NOT to spend money.

If you haven’t bought HoT at this point, you are no longer their customer. You are either a former customer, or a trial user with the potential to become a customer.

They can’t simply make elite specs free in PvP only, as then there would be literally no incentive for that eSports community they keep foolishly trying to chase to pay them at all. Their entire eSports setup is a marketing tool, specifically designed to sell more copies of the game. Making it more competitive by spending less money simply undoes that entire business model.

The problem with that is I still buy gems even though I didn’t buy HoT. That makes me a paying customer. And there are many people like me that didn’t buy HoT but buy gems. We’re still customers.

One wonders why you decided to support a company with your money that is using a business model you don’t agree with.

Gem store purchases are considered supplemental. GW2 is not a free to play game. it is a buy to play game with a free trial and optional microtransactions.

That probably isn’t going to change. They were very clear in the HoT announcement AND the F2P announcement that they consider their business model buy to play.

While they’ll certainly take your money, they don’t intend that you spend the money you could have spent on the expansion on gems for obvious reasons.

You decided that whatever skins you got from the gem store were more important uses of your currency than buying their game. Then you complained their game was poorly balanced for “paying customers”

You are the architect of your own balance issues in this case. You know that they designed their system around encouraging, nay requiring people to occasionally buy an expansion. You chose not to buy the expansion because you don’t want to support this business practice. Then you gave them money anyway… effectively supporting this business practice?

Doesn’t make a ton of sense.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Galtrix.7369

Galtrix.7369

Anet has no interest in spending money of features that encourage you NOT to spend money.

If you haven’t bought HoT at this point, you are no longer their customer. You are either a former customer, or a trial user with the potential to become a customer.

They can’t simply make elite specs free in PvP only, as then there would be literally no incentive for that eSports community they keep foolishly trying to chase to pay them at all. Their entire eSports setup is a marketing tool, specifically designed to sell more copies of the game. Making it more competitive by spending less money simply undoes that entire business model.

The problem with that is I still buy gems even though I didn’t buy HoT. That makes me a paying customer. And there are many people like me that didn’t buy HoT but buy gems. We’re still customers.

One wonders why you decided to support a company with your money that is using a business model you don’t agree with.

Gem store purchases are considered supplemental. GW2 is not a free to play game. it is a buy to play game with a free trial and optional microtransactions.

That probably isn’t going to change. They were very clear in the HoT announcement AND the F2P announcement that they consider their business model buy to play.

While they’ll certainly take your money, they don’t intend that you spend the money you could have spent on the expansion on gems for obvious reasons.

You decided that whatever skins you got from the gem store were more important uses of your currency than buying their game. Then you complained their game was poorly balanced for “paying customers”

You are the architect of your own balance issues in this case. You know that they designed their system around encouraging, nay requiring people to occasionally buy an expansion. You chose not to buy the expansion because you don’t want to support this business practice. Then you gave them money anyway… effectively supporting this business practice?

Doesn’t make a ton of sense.

I should have said that I “bought” gems…. I was thinking in present tense for some reason. I’m not currently buying gems because I do think this system is completely idiotic. Anet didn’t even have Expansion Packs in their minds when they developed Guild Wars 2. I bought the game, fully expecting that I would be able to play the content forever – without getting cheated by a completely random “Elite Spec system” that completely infringes upon the freedom of their core game. It’s just complete nonsense to add an expansion that gives a definite advantage in all aspects of PvP.

I liked the core game, that’s why I payed gems to support it. I would definitely pay gems again…. were they to remove the advantages of Elite specs in PvP or do something that makes it so players with the core game can continue playing PvP without getting steamrolled. It’s just such an obvious cash grab on Anet’s part to force us to buy HoT or get wrecked in PvP.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

They need an option to buy pvp unlocks for the expansion. 50+ bucks for someone that only pvps is not worth it imo. Also it wasn’t some fluke that all elite specs ended up outclassing their core counterparts.

See, now this is a reasonable expectation that I could see Anet actually doing.

Don’t want the whole expansion? Fine, pay 20 bucks just to unlock the specs and reward tracks in PvP.

Or $10 to unlock one Elite Spec, if that’s all you want.

As to monetizing sPvP, what do LoL/DotA sell that keeps those companies afloat?

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Posted by: Yasha.5963

Yasha.5963

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Good points about WoW. And yes, the elite specs are a straight upgrade from core specs.

You can beat HoT specs with a core spec – for example here is a video of me fighting HoT rangers on my core ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BboUpdAtR94

However, if I had HoT I could make a similar ranger build with the same damage and much more survivability (free stun break, access to a new abilities bar with cc and heals, mass stealth, superspeed, free multi-condition cleanse, etc) and better pets.

Its a similar story for the other classes as well.

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Posted by: serj.8214

serj.8214

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Old Vanile necro, S\D Thief, Warrior GS\H, Ranger LB\GS they all can win against elite spec. So i dont think that ur problem is in elite specs. Btw how long do u play GW2 on ftp acc?

I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Guild Wars 1. How long have you been playing on a free account? That’s funny that you mention that those classes can beat elite specs, because those (with the exception of the necro) are the classes that I generally play with and I still lose. If an experienced player can get eradicated by elite specs, there’s a problem.

Its just problem of your skill nothing more. And if u cant\want get HoT its ur problem, bcs you have 2 options play as you playing now or buy HoT and stop QQ about especs.

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Posted by: Yasha.5963

Yasha.5963

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Old Vanile necro, S\D Thief, Warrior GS\H, Ranger LB\GS they all can win against elite spec. So i dont think that ur problem is in elite specs. Btw how long do u play GW2 on ftp acc?

I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Guild Wars 1. How long have you been playing on a free account? That’s funny that you mention that those classes can beat elite specs, because those (with the exception of the necro) are the classes that I generally play with and I still lose. If an experienced player can get eradicated by elite specs, there’s a problem.

Its just problem of your skill nothing more. And if u cant\want get HoT its ur problem, bcs you have 2 options play as you playing now or buy HoT and stop QQ about especs.

The HoT specs are a straight upgrade from core specs, and for various reasons it is quite detrimental to the spvp side of the game to have a group of people playing without access to those specs.

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Posted by: serj.8214

serj.8214

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Old Vanile necro, S\D Thief, Warrior GS\H, Ranger LB\GS they all can win against elite spec. So i dont think that ur problem is in elite specs. Btw how long do u play GW2 on ftp acc?

I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Guild Wars 1. How long have you been playing on a free account? That’s funny that you mention that those classes can beat elite specs, because those (with the exception of the necro) are the classes that I generally play with and I still lose. If an experienced player can get eradicated by elite specs, there’s a problem.

Its just problem of your skill nothing more. And if u cant\want get HoT its ur problem, bcs you have 2 options play as you playing now or buy HoT and stop QQ about especs.

The HoT specs are a straight upgrade from core specs, and for various reasons it is quite detrimental to the spvp side of the game to have a group of people playing without access to those specs.

Its sounds like you are getting every time with 4 more ppl without especs.

Match me with players without HoT.

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Posted by: Galtrix.7369

Galtrix.7369

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Old Vanile necro, S\D Thief, Warrior GS\H, Ranger LB\GS they all can win against elite spec. So i dont think that ur problem is in elite specs. Btw how long do u play GW2 on ftp acc?

I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Guild Wars 1. How long have you been playing on a free account? That’s funny that you mention that those classes can beat elite specs, because those (with the exception of the necro) are the classes that I generally play with and I still lose. If an experienced player can get eradicated by elite specs, there’s a problem.

Its just problem of your skill nothing more. And if u cant\want get HoT its ur problem, bcs you have 2 options play as you playing now or buy HoT and stop QQ about especs.

The HoT specs are a straight upgrade from core specs, and for various reasons it is quite detrimental to the spvp side of the game to have a group of people playing without access to those specs.

Its sounds like you are getting every time with 4 more ppl without especs.

I don’t mean to be rude, but I don’t think English is your first language. I didn’t understand the last sentence at all. Could you rephrase it? Or I also speak German if, by chance, you speak that.

1. You’re wrong on so many aspects. I was playing Guild Wars before you were born, and therefore have a lot of experience with builds and how to adapt them to fit the circumstances. I have tried every possible build I could think of, including those of other people, and only a few have worked well enough to kill an elite spec and then die shortly thereafter.

2. Dailies sometimes require you to play certain classes in PvP…. classes that simply can’t compete with Elite Specs. Again, it’s incredibly dumb that Elite Specs have forced themselves into the PvP realm where I used to be able to compete, and now can’t.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

Match me with players without HoT.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

They need an option to buy pvp unlocks for the expansion. 50+ bucks for someone that only pvps is not worth it imo. Also it wasn’t some fluke that all elite specs ended up outclassing their core counterparts.

See, now this is a reasonable expectation that I could see Anet actually doing.

Don’t want the whole expansion? Fine, pay 20 bucks just to unlock the specs and reward tracks in PvP.

Or $10 to unlock one Elite Spec, if that’s all you want.

As to monetizing sPvP, what do LoL/DotA sell that keeps those companies afloat?

Skins, however this is an apples and oranges comparison since all of LoL’s Dev team, and all of DOTA’s dev team are only working on a purely PvP game, and all of the art, sound design, and engineering resourced go to pvp and only pvp.

In GW2, PvP is a thin slice of a greater whole, and acquisition of skins is its primary advancement model already. Despite the fact that they overly monetize this already, it is far less simple to design for GW2 PvP because of its relationship with PvE, WvW, and the shared development resources for those game modes.

GW2’s model is also not the same. It creates a lot of very expensive content for PvE, in addition to trying to keep pvP and WvW updated, which requires greater cash input, hence the sale of expansions.

Further, I can’t imagine the community would take it well if WvW and PvE people had to buy expansions for new character build options and PvP did not, and they’re most certainly not going to just start giving away full expansions worth of content for free again since they’re already pretty much spent money that requires a return on investment over the last two years in their move to the expansion model.

Really though, what it boils down to is that LoL and DOTA are much tighter, simpler PvP designs with a lot less moving parts as they were designed specifically for PvP, and designed specifically for people to be able to easily pick up and play.

GW2 doesn’t have the ability to attract as wide a player base simply because the design of the PvP game is an offshoot of combat systems primarily designed for PvE, where complexity, choices in character builds and gear, and more knobs for players to tweak are more important.

PvE would have the same issue if they designed combat for PvP first and foremost, as people would be unsatisfied with the much simplyer, less customizable characters for PvE.

In order to support PvP, Anet can’t treat it the same way riot or Valve treat their games because in terms of resources they simply can’t invest as much in them. PvE with full voiced dialogue, highly polished visuals, cutscenes, etc. is massively more expensive than regular rollouts of a new hero.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: SolarDragon.7063

SolarDragon.7063

Long story short, ANet needs to give up on promoting PvP for F2P, given the release of elite specs.

I’ve discussed it before, but there is always going to be an advantage to having HoT. In a sensible situation where about half the classes used elite builds in their good builds (3 traitlines out of 6 used, random distribution), that still means that free players will be limited to half the classes/builds. Right now Elites are overtuned in comparison to their own core specs, but F2P will never be competitive unless Elite specs are nerfed PAST the point of equality (a bad result).

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Posted by: Yasha.5963

Yasha.5963

They need an option to buy pvp unlocks for the expansion. 50+ bucks for someone that only pvps is not worth it imo. Also it wasn’t some fluke that all elite specs ended up outclassing their core counterparts.

See, now this is a reasonable expectation that I could see Anet actually doing.

Don’t want the whole expansion? Fine, pay 20 bucks just to unlock the specs and reward tracks in PvP.

Or $10 to unlock one Elite Spec, if that’s all you want.

As to monetizing sPvP, what do LoL/DotA sell that keeps those companies afloat?

GW2 doesn’t have the ability to attract as wide a player base simply because the design of the PvP game is an offshoot of combat systems primarily designed for PvE, where complexity, choices in character builds and gear, and more knobs for players to tweak are more important.

PvE would have the same issue if they designed combat for PvP first and foremost, as people would be unsatisfied with the much simplyer, less customizable characters for PvE.

I am pretty sure that GW2’s combat was designed around pvp, and spvp in particular. The spvp game system actually does have the potential to tap into the moba/ competitive fps player base- but ANET hasn’t taken advantage of it. The latest gaff being that the HoT specs create a power gap in the spvp player base.

Spvp probably would have gained a lot more traction if the spvp portion of the game had been f2p from the start and had robust ancillary support, like you can see with how SMITE has been set up.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Long story short, ANet needs to give up on promoting PvP for F2P, given the release of elite specs.

I’ve discussed it before, but there is always going to be an advantage to having HoT. In a sensible situation where about half the classes used elite builds in their good builds (3 traitlines out of 6 used, random distribution), that still means that free players will be limited to half the classes/builds. Right now Elites are overtuned in comparison to their own core specs, but F2P will never be competitive unless Elite specs are nerfed PAST the point of equality (a bad result).

Or, they’re playing the long game.

Future elite specs are supposed to be balanced alongside the current ones, as that is the entire point of the elite spec system.

Using an elite spec was always going to be a mandatory option simply because mechanically, it wouldn’t make sense to be able to pair an individually good trait line with a limited elite specialization. The fact that core specs cna stack with Elite specs means that core specs simply can’t be on par with elite specs.

However, the entire design of elite specs is that thy’re build choices relative to one another. You can’t equip more than one at a time. once Anet releases a second spec for every class, HoT will also have moved to free to play, and the circle will be complete.

I’ve said this before, but Anet made a mistake releasing the elite spec system with only one option to choose, as the entire point of the system is that it has multiple, wildly different options that can only be so wildly different because they can’t stack with one another. That made elite specs a straight upgrade rather than a build choice, since all future balance is based on the assumption that everyone will be using one of multiple avaliable elite specs.

In stead, the should have released HoT with two specs to choose from, and perhaps the intent of the system would have been more clear. This will be the state of the game after the next expansion is released, and if they design the next specs to serve the purpose they set out to acheive with them, this will cease to be a problem for their F2P marketing.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: SolarDragon.7063

SolarDragon.7063

Long story short, ANet needs to give up on promoting PvP for F2P, given the release of elite specs.

I’ve discussed it before, but there is always going to be an advantage to having HoT. In a sensible situation where about half the classes used elite builds in their good builds (3 traitlines out of 6 used, random distribution), that still means that free players will be limited to half the classes/builds. Right now Elites are overtuned in comparison to their own core specs, but F2P will never be competitive unless Elite specs are nerfed PAST the point of equality (a bad result).

Or, they’re playing the long game.

Future elite specs are supposed to be balanced alongside the current ones, as that is the entire point of the elite spec system.

Using an elite spec was always going to be a mandatory option simply because mechanically, it wouldn’t make sense to be able to pair an individually good trait line with a limited elite specialization. The fact that core specs cna stack with Elite specs means that core specs simply can’t be on par with elite specs.

However, the entire design of elite specs is that thy’re build choices relative to one another. You can’t equip more than one at a time. once Anet releases a second spec for every class, HoT will also have moved to free to play, and the circle will be complete.

I’ve said this before, but Anet made a mistake releasing the elite spec system with only one option to choose, as the entire point of the system is that it has multiple, wildly different options that can only be so wildly different because they can’t stack with one another. That made elite specs a straight upgrade rather than a build choice, since all future balance is based on the assumption that everyone will be using one of multiple avaliable elite specs.

In stead, the should have released HoT with two specs to choose from, and perhaps the intent of the system would have been more clear. This will be the state of the game after the next expansion is released, and if they design the next specs to serve the purpose they set out to acheive with them, this will cease to be a problem for their F2P marketing.

The problem is their long game is failing right now.

Personally, my solution would be to allow HoT classes to be used by F2P’s in PvP ONLY.
Gets more people into competitive levels of PvP, and allows them to try before they buy-given how much my PvP play influences my PvE choices and preferences, I can see people experimenting with elite specs and then realising they really really want them.

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Posted by: Galtrix.7369

Galtrix.7369

Long story short, ANet needs to give up on promoting PvP for F2P, given the release of elite specs.

I’ve discussed it before, but there is always going to be an advantage to having HoT. In a sensible situation where about half the classes used elite builds in their good builds (3 traitlines out of 6 used, random distribution), that still means that free players will be limited to half the classes/builds. Right now Elites are overtuned in comparison to their own core specs, but F2P will never be competitive unless Elite specs are nerfed PAST the point of equality (a bad result).

Or, they’re playing the long game.

Future elite specs are supposed to be balanced alongside the current ones, as that is the entire point of the elite spec system.

Using an elite spec was always going to be a mandatory option simply because mechanically, it wouldn’t make sense to be able to pair an individually good trait line with a limited elite specialization. The fact that core specs cna stack with Elite specs means that core specs simply can’t be on par with elite specs.

However, the entire design of elite specs is that thy’re build choices relative to one another. You can’t equip more than one at a time. once Anet releases a second spec for every class, HoT will also have moved to free to play, and the circle will be complete.

I’ve said this before, but Anet made a mistake releasing the elite spec system with only one option to choose, as the entire point of the system is that it has multiple, wildly different options that can only be so wildly different because they can’t stack with one another. That made elite specs a straight upgrade rather than a build choice, since all future balance is based on the assumption that everyone will be using one of multiple avaliable elite specs.

In stead, the should have released HoT with two specs to choose from, and perhaps the intent of the system would have been more clear. This will be the state of the game after the next expansion is released, and if they design the next specs to serve the purpose they set out to acheive with them, this will cease to be a problem for their F2P marketing.

The problem is their long game is failing right now.

Personally, my solution would be to allow HoT classes to be used by F2P’s in PvP ONLY.
Gets more people into competitive levels of PvP, and allows them to try before they buy-given how much my PvP play influences my PvE choices and preferences, I can see people experimenting with elite specs and then realising they really really want them.

That would definitely be an adequate solution.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

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Posted by: JDjitsu.7895

JDjitsu.7895

That would just be asking to sit in queue for ages. Like how many ppl who pvp/wvw on the reg don’t have HoT yet? I’d guess VERY few.

Though there are vanilla builds that can compete with HoT ones. Not many, but if you’re a good player(which means knowing group comp and all the meta builds/profs, who you can and can’t fight, have good positioning ect), you can do just fine.

Wiggin/LittleEnder/XeroCool/Filthydirtyrotten/MizDemeanor/EnderThaXenocide/ShadowOfWiggin-
Maguuma & A Few alts on other NA/EU servers

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Posted by: Darkness.9732

Darkness.9732

I don’ t want to buy Hot and i want to play with people who didn’ t buy it.
Make a division only for us. At least the game would be fair.

@Galtrix.7369 you are not alone. Many players share the same thoughts of yours.
Me first

(edited by Darkness.9732)

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Posted by: serj.8214

serj.8214

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

Old Vanile necro, S\D Thief, Warrior GS\H, Ranger LB\GS they all can win against elite spec. So i dont think that ur problem is in elite specs. Btw how long do u play GW2 on ftp acc?

I’ve been playing Guild Wars since Guild Wars 1. How long have you been playing on a free account? That’s funny that you mention that those classes can beat elite specs, because those (with the exception of the necro) are the classes that I generally play with and I still lose. If an experienced player can get eradicated by elite specs, there’s a problem.

Its just problem of your skill nothing more. And if u cant\want get HoT its ur problem, bcs you have 2 options play as you playing now or buy HoT and stop QQ about especs.

The HoT specs are a straight upgrade from core specs, and for various reasons it is quite detrimental to the spvp side of the game to have a group of people playing without access to those specs.

Its sounds like you are getting every time with 4 more ppl without especs.

I don’t mean to be rude, but I don’t think English is your first language. I didn’t understand the last sentence at all. Could you rephrase it? Or I also speak German if, by chance, you speak that.

1. You’re wrong on so many aspects. I was playing Guild Wars before you were born, and therefore have a lot of experience with builds and how to adapt them to fit the circumstances. I have tried every possible build I could think of, including those of other people, and only a few have worked well enough to kill an elite spec and then die shortly thereafter.

2. Dailies sometimes require you to play certain classes in PvP…. classes that simply can’t compete with Elite Specs. Again, it’s incredibly dumb that Elite Specs have forced themselves into the PvP realm where I used to be able to compete, and now can’t.

If you want not to be rude dont look at grammar) And in Nr1 u are talking rude) but you care about are you rude or not lol. If you cant beat some1 with p\p or s\d thief some1 its only ur probs.

Long story short, ANet needs to give up on promoting PvP for F2P, given the release of elite specs.

I’ve discussed it before, but there is always going to be an advantage to having HoT. In a sensible situation where about half the classes used elite builds in their good builds (3 traitlines out of 6 used, random distribution), that still means that free players will be limited to half the classes/builds. Right now Elites are overtuned in comparison to their own core specs, but F2P will never be competitive unless Elite specs are nerfed PAST the point of equality (a bad result).

Or, they’re playing the long game.

Future elite specs are supposed to be balanced alongside the current ones, as that is the entire point of the elite spec system.

Using an elite spec was always going to be a mandatory option simply because mechanically, it wouldn’t make sense to be able to pair an individually good trait line with a limited elite specialization. The fact that core specs cna stack with Elite specs means that core specs simply can’t be on par with elite specs.

However, the entire design of elite specs is that thy’re build choices relative to one another. You can’t equip more than one at a time. once Anet releases a second spec for every class, HoT will also have moved to free to play, and the circle will be complete.

I’ve said this before, but Anet made a mistake releasing the elite spec system with only one option to choose, as the entire point of the system is that it has multiple, wildly different options that can only be so wildly different because they can’t stack with one another. That made elite specs a straight upgrade rather than a build choice, since all future balance is based on the assumption that everyone will be using one of multiple avaliable elite specs.

In stead, the should have released HoT with two specs to choose from, and perhaps the intent of the system would have been more clear. This will be the state of the game after the next expansion is released, and if they design the next specs to serve the purpose they set out to acheive with them, this will cease to be a problem for their F2P marketing.

The problem is their long game is failing right now.

Personally, my solution would be to allow HoT classes to be used by F2P’s in PvP ONLY.
Gets more people into competitive levels of PvP, and allows them to try before they buy-given how much my PvP play influences my PvE choices and preferences, I can see people experimenting with elite specs and then realising they really really want them.

So you suggest to give F2P players Revenant for free?)

I don’ t want to buy Hot and i want to play with people who didn’ t buy it.
Make a division only for us. At least the game would be fair.

@Galtrix.7369 you are not alone. Many players share the same thoughts of yours.
Me first

Life isnt fair deal with it.

(edited by serj.8214)

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

There’s still people that think that make a different division will make them play into a more balanced game??
After all the fixes at the cores to make the elite more balanced
?
Are you serious???

Reasons why the things will reman the way they actually are:

1) Once and for all: HOT IS NO MORE AN EXPANSION. If you buy the main game you will also buy hot without any add of money, unlike more or less what other games do. HoT IS GW2. And is not a Buy to Win, is only a Buy to Properly Play. You want to play the entire game and be at the same levels of other players? Buyt it, nothing more. it’s not an extra cost, unless you played from before HoT. And anyway you played for long long time (I played more than 3 years) at the cost of 40€. 40/36=1,1€/month if you played from the begin like me. You can spend some more to obtain again your full game and play as you wish.

2) Make different Divisions for who don’t have HoT? They can do it, but you will lose also all the things bounded to ranked win, all the ruby,diamond, etc, all the things you can buy based in what’s your level and the legendary backpack, why they’re all things related to the main game.
Basicly, you will obtain a lesser than unranked sPvP division with a insane Queue that will make you basicly unable to play and will grant you nothing. If you think that actually you don’t obtain anything from pvp, try a similar game, you will quit in 1 week.

3) Core Classes are Totally Unbalanced!
How can you think that after all the changes ANet did to all the classes to be more balanced, fixing both core and spec, the Core classes will be good to make a sPvP Division?
You will find a Totally Unbalanced Game! If you think that actually there’s imbalance, just try to make matches with core only…
And you will also not be able to ask for a fix because ANet will ignore you more than now, just because they will make they’re bad fixes to try to balance the Real game, not a pathetic surrogate made just for some folks that don’t want to buy they’re game.

4) You can stil play different builds and be able to fight against a lot of builds/classes. An example can be the MediGuardian is always good (a little lesser than in the old times, but still inflict tons of damage and sorvive just a little lesser than the DH). The Shatter Mesmer, still inflicting tons of damage. The Bunker/Decapper cleric engineer, still one of the best builds for bunk and decap in sPvP (seriously, try it, it’s insane how good is, still against the elite specs).
Offcourse there’s a large amount of builds that you can’t do and that are really strong, but ANet chose to forgot Core Classes to focus on Specializzations. They wanted to make More and More Elite Specializzations, making the game full of specific builds. That’s why they wanted to make players unable to make everything they want with every class, simply why that make them unable to balance the classes (the main reason why GW2 is impossible to balance is because every class can do everything, a thing that is not present in every single other games where the PvP is good)

I can write more but I’m busy of players that play in Solo and want a perfect Game with Always Perfect and Super Balanced matches while don’t even try to make a team with a specific strategy and specific builds to smash down the n00bs that play in solo., or even the players that want to play at the same level of other players knowing that this game is a Buy to Play (and, sometimes, a buy to winm just why who have payed for All the game can play the Entire game.).

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Posted by: Lord Hammer Hand.4815

Lord Hammer Hand.4815

but i wanna rekt hot players with my vanilla minion master necro or signet necro

Pacific Islander Legion [NoyP]
Black Gate
Ruthless Legend

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Posted by: Ismael.6074

Ismael.6074

How entitled are you guys? Guild Wars 2 is a buisness not a charity. You spent $60 on a game almost 4 years ago and expect that game to be constantly and timely updated for ever and ever and ever?

NEWS FLASH: It takes money to pay developers. ANET released an xpac after 3 years. Do you want to know why? Because it costs money if you want them to keep producing content and they don’t have unlimited money. If you want to be competitive at pvp in this game just support the company that runs it.

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Posted by: Unlikely.3627

Unlikely.3627

What Ismael and Silv said. You want something? You pay for it. The game you play is basically a free version, you buy the game to get access to everything. Simple stuff really..

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

What Ismael and Silv said. You want something? You pay for it. The game you play is basically a free version, you buy the game to get access to everything. Simple stuff really..

That would be a bait and switch.

Their experience has been intentionally diminished and held hostage behind a pay wall.

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

(edited by Zetsumei.4975)

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Just buy HoT?
Honestly there may be many reasons why you can’t / won’t but is that not an option?

^ This. And the reason is pretty much that there’s just not enough other people out there who don’t have HoT.

Consider that matchmaking would have to take the entire PvP population queueing at the same time as you, reduce it to people who don’t have HoT, and then apply all the other filters it currently has (i.e. MMR rating). You’d wait forever to get a queue pop and even if you did have enough other non-HoT people online queued to get a decent time, you’d be matched with people everywhere on the spectrum from total noob, to very skilled.

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Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

Sorry, but it’s borderline ridiculous trying to play PvP against people with elite specializations when I don’t have them myself.

Why is this even a thing? I’ve heard arguments about WoW’s expansions also creating a power-gap, but those arguments are completely invalid. PvP in WoW was based on level. If I didn’t have the expansion pack, it didn’t matter because I was matched up with players of my own level, where it didn’t matter at all if either of us had the expansion or not. Even if I were max level, I wouldn’t be able to enter PvP with players that are a higher level than me.

GW2 is not WoW, and PvP consists of players all battling on an equal field – essentially, we are all level 80. I completely understand that Anet wants players to buy HoT, and I understand that they want a little power-gap to be in there somewhere. But I don’t need to be roflstomped every few seconds by a Daredevil or a Reaper just to be reminded that I need to buy HoT in order to properly compete.

Maybe I’m completely alone on this, and maybe I just suck at PvP, but is there anyone else that is of the same opinion as me?

No you are not. However if ANet did that then there would be little of no incentive for sPvP players to buy HoT. Meanings a much less bottom line for ANet. Which is why this will never happen. It’s the same situation as WvW FoTM server stacking, if ANet completely balanced player population there would be barely any reason to transfer to a better server. Again meaning a much less bottom line for this game mode as well. ANet is a business after all and the only thing any business care about these days is getting richer no matter the price.

However feel free to enjoy the base game for free, which is extremely generous of ANet compared to other gaming companies that are out these days. And honestly you should never have a competitive mindset when playing sPvP in GW2. It’s just not encouraged at all in this game, even in it’s Ranked matches.

I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys

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Posted by: Ismael.6074

Ismael.6074

What Ismael and Silv said. You want something? You pay for it. The game you play is basically a free version, you buy the game to get access to everything. Simple stuff really..

That would be a bait and switch.

They’re experience has been intentionally diminished and held hostage behind a pay wall.

I can’t believe I’m arguing this because it should just be common sense… but here we go.

Your experience was never diminished… everything you paid for 4 years ago is still there and you can still do it. You can still do pvp, wvw and pve without HOT. The only difference is that there is new content exclusive to the expansion pack.

When you buy a game you are entitled to the content you paid for. You can still access all that content without any paywall. Anet has no legal obligation for you to enjoy that content though. Just because the content Anet created may prevent you from ENJOYING that content without the expansion pack does not mean they locked the content you paid for behind a paywall. All your content is accessible just as it always was, you just no longer enjoy it as much as you used to.

Here is a good example, lets say you buy a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 because it is the fastest street legal car and you like to street race. The car is touted as the “fastest street legal car”. You win all your races. Next year a Bugatti Veyron 16.5 comes out that is faster and now you start losing. Does that mean Bugatti “bait and switched” you? No it doesn’t.

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

Just buy HoT?
Honestly there may be many reasons why you can’t / won’t but is that not an option?

I may be 9 days late on an answer for you but as someone who doesn’t own HoT, I’ll do my best.

Not interested in HoT at all from a PvE perspective. No a la carte option to just buy Elite specs for PvP which was a huge mistake on ArenaNet’s part in my opinion. $50 for Elite specs and a new profession is not worth it to me.

I agree entirely OP. I’d also like to see what I mentioned above and have them sell Elite specs for PvP only and sell them a la carte or in a pack. I would definitely like queuing with non-HoT owners. I have 2 or 3 builds I have run in the past back when I was playing after HoT came out that were decent, but it was definitely noticeable that the Elite specs had just a little more oomph and it I was put off by it. That action just tells me that to stay relevant, whenever they put new Elite specs out they will be hidden behind a paywall. So much for staying competitive and so much for trying to turn GW2 into e-sports. You can’t divide your playerbase like that. You also shouldn’t expect your playerbase to be happy about having to pay $50 to stay relevant in PvP if they aren’t interested in PvE. It’s poor form.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

What Ismael and Silv said. You want something? You pay for it. The game you play is basically a free version, you buy the game to get access to everything. Simple stuff really..

That would be a bait and switch.

They’re experience has been intentionally diminished and held hostage behind a pay wall.

I can’t believe I’m arguing this because it should just be common sense… but here we go.

Your experience was never diminished… everything you paid for 4 years ago is still there and you can still do it. You can still do pvp, wvw and pve without HOT. The only difference is that there is new content exclusive to the expansion pack.

When you buy a game you are entitled to the content you paid for. You can still access all that content without any paywall. Anet has no legal obligation for you to enjoy that content though. Just because the content Anet created may prevent you from ENJOYING that content without the expansion pack does not mean they locked the content you paid for behind a paywall. All your content is accessible just as it always was, you just no longer enjoy it as much as you used to.

Here is a good example, lets say you buy a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 because it is the fastest street legal car and you like to street race. The car is touted as the “fastest street legal car”. You win all your races. Next year a Bugatti Veyron 16.5 comes out that is faster and now you start losing. Does that mean Bugatti “bait and switched” you? No it doesn’t.

Not quite. Theyre selling you the license to race so to speak.

This would be paying a lump sum of money to enter a competition where you must pick from a fixed selection of cars of your choice to race, under the premise that this is all you will ever have to pay in order to be competitive in this tournament (anet by their own words said the elite specs are not meant to be an upgrade).
Next year they tell you that if you pay another fee equal to the first sum of money you paid, you may gain access to faster cars and if you do not you may still race but never win.

“You can either leave this room or I will shoot you, its your choice”.

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

(edited by Zetsumei.4975)

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Posted by: Ismael.6074

Ismael.6074

What Ismael and Silv said. You want something? You pay for it. The game you play is basically a free version, you buy the game to get access to everything. Simple stuff really..

That would be a bait and switch.

They’re experience has been intentionally diminished and held hostage behind a pay wall.

I can’t believe I’m arguing this because it should just be common sense… but here we go.

Your experience was never diminished… everything you paid for 4 years ago is still there and you can still do it. You can still do pvp, wvw and pve without HOT. The only difference is that there is new content exclusive to the expansion pack.

When you buy a game you are entitled to the content you paid for. You can still access all that content without any paywall. Anet has no legal obligation for you to enjoy that content though. Just because the content Anet created may prevent you from ENJOYING that content without the expansion pack does not mean they locked the content you paid for behind a paywall. All your content is accessible just as it always was, you just no longer enjoy it as much as you used to.

Here is a good example, lets say you buy a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 because it is the fastest street legal car and you like to street race. The car is touted as the “fastest street legal car”. You win all your races. Next year a Bugatti Veyron 16.5 comes out that is faster and now you start losing. Does that mean Bugatti “bait and switched” you? No it doesn’t.

Not quite. Theyre selling you the license to race so to speak.

This would be paying a lump sum of money to enter a competition where you must pick from a fixed selection of cars of your choice to race, under the premise that this is all you will ever have to pay in order to be competitive in this tournament (anet by their own words said the elite specs are not meant to be an upgrade).
Next year they tell you that if you pay another fee equal to the first sum of money you paid, you may gain access to faster cars and if you do not you may still race but never win.

“You can either leave this room or I will shoot you, its your choice”.

What you fail to realize is that neither anet or your fictitious racing company have any obligation for you to be competitive in their games. While Anet strives for balance they have no legal obligation that says they can’t release new content which makes old players worse.

A bait and switch is marketing a false price for a service only to increase that price later. Anet never told you “we aren’t releasing new specs ever” nor did they promise vanilla specs would be even remotely competitive. Anet sold you a game for $60 of which all the content is still playable. They promised you game content for a price and gave you all of that content for the stipulated price. If you no longer enjoy the game because you die at it, it is not their problem.

Honestly if you don’t get it at this point I don’t know what to tell you. As they say, you can’t argue with stupid. That being said before you continue calling what Anet did a bait and switch, let me ask what law school you went to? For the record I go to Osgoode.

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Posted by: perko.8309

perko.8309

So you want ANet to spend precious developer time to help the people that refuse to spend a little $$?! Do you see a flaw in that logic?
Hint: they’re a for profit company.

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

So you want ANet to spend precious developer time to help the people that refuse to spend a little $$?! Do you see a flaw in that logic?
Hint: they’re a for profit company.

I agree, I want ANet to put more pay2win stuff in the gemstore so I can support them!!!

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

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Posted by: Luto.1938

Luto.1938

Just buy the expansion. It’s 50% off right now until tomorrow, so it’s only $25.00.

http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns

Luto Locke
Twitch Stream

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Posted by: Twigifire.8379

Twigifire.8379

At this point in the game balance I’d pay for a non-HoT queue haha. Would be heaps funner!

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

What Ismael and Silv said. You want something? You pay for it. The game you play is basically a free version, you buy the game to get access to everything. Simple stuff really..

That would be a bait and switch.

They’re experience has been intentionally diminished and held hostage behind a pay wall.

I can’t believe I’m arguing this because it should just be common sense… but here we go.

Your experience was never diminished… everything you paid for 4 years ago is still there and you can still do it. You can still do pvp, wvw and pve without HOT. The only difference is that there is new content exclusive to the expansion pack.

When you buy a game you are entitled to the content you paid for. You can still access all that content without any paywall. Anet has no legal obligation for you to enjoy that content though. Just because the content Anet created may prevent you from ENJOYING that content without the expansion pack does not mean they locked the content you paid for behind a paywall. All your content is accessible just as it always was, you just no longer enjoy it as much as you used to.

Here is a good example, lets say you buy a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 because it is the fastest street legal car and you like to street race. The car is touted as the “fastest street legal car”. You win all your races. Next year a Bugatti Veyron 16.5 comes out that is faster and now you start losing. Does that mean Bugatti “bait and switched” you? No it doesn’t.

Not quite. Theyre selling you the license to race so to speak.

This would be paying a lump sum of money to enter a competition where you must pick from a fixed selection of cars of your choice to race, under the premise that this is all you will ever have to pay in order to be competitive in this tournament (anet by their own words said the elite specs are not meant to be an upgrade).
Next year they tell you that if you pay another fee equal to the first sum of money you paid, you may gain access to faster cars and if you do not you may still race but never win.

“You can either leave this room or I will shoot you, its your choice”.

What you fail to realize is that neither anet or your fictitious racing company have any obligation for you to be competitive in their games. While Anet strives for balance they have no legal obligation that says they can’t release new content which makes old players worse.

A bait and switch is marketing a false price for a service only to increase that price later. Anet never told you “we aren’t releasing new specs ever” nor did they promise vanilla specs would be even remotely competitive. Anet sold you a game for $60 of which all the content is still playable. They promised you game content for a price and gave you all of that content for the stipulated price. If you no longer enjoy the game because you die at it, it is not their problem.

Honestly if you don’t get it at this point I don’t know what to tell you. As they say, you can’t argue with stupid. That being said before you continue calling what Anet did a bait and switch, let me ask what law school you went to? For the record I go to Osgoode.

In other words you’re admitting what I’m describing, that being said yes I’m using the laymen definition of ‘’bait and switch" here. While it’s not illegal it’s intentional frowned up business techniques they’re using to sell the expansion.

They made the content that was previously sold obsolete. Or as a pvp player are you seriously trying to tell me that a pvp platform has any value, use or meaning to a competitive player if they cannot win?

For the record, they did promise the base specs would remain competitive. In their own words, the elite specs are not supposed to be an upgrade.

Just because you can log onto the game does not mean it is playable to a competitive pvp player if they cannot win. It’s always a gateway to a game going down the drain when it’s player’s irrationally defend the interests of the company rather than the players. The company’s profits =/= player’s enjoyment. Any competitive pvp player for one reason or the other who cannot buy the further expansions are forced to give up the game as a whole, the game that they bought has been given an expiry date.

Maybe it would make it easier to understand if anet released a mechanic such that, when you buy the expansion your stats are double that of those who only have the core game. Does that seem so innocent now?

Last time I checked, spvp was built upon the principle of the match’s outcome being independent of your wealth inside and outside of the game.

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

(edited by Zetsumei.4975)